Tired of "JP ONRY"? Let's bridge the language gap!

Mini - I think this is a great idea. Ignore the negativity. :)

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Originally Posted by Gevvy

You join a server thats native language is Japanese, despite not speaking the language.

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Its a geographical designation not a language designation.

Unless "North American" is a new distinct language now

PS Good luck with learning japanese Mini

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Originally Posted by Gevvy

Do everyone a favour and join an English speaking server, because you're probably annoying more Japs than youu'e helping.

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And you should do the Japanese a favour by not calling them Japs. It's an offensive term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...on/english/Jap

And you seem to be mistaken. Most English speaking players play in JP servers not because they are totally in love with Japanese people. They play it because of ping. And now the OP is trying to narrow the gap in communication by learning some Japanese.

Yes there is an English speaking community on JP servers but why in the world should they remain strangers to the other major part of the community? Why not learn the same language?

I get 80ms on the JP server and 350ms for the NA server. It's obvious which I would prefer, to play more competitively.

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Originally Posted by Gevvy

Do everyone a favour and join an English speaking server, because you're probably annoying more Japs than youu'e helping.

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There is no way for me to play on english speaking server. Ping is not good (Above 350-380++), in JP server I could play more comfortably.
By doing so, I do everyone a favour in better response on dodging AOE.

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Originally Posted by Gevvy

JP servers are suited best for JP players.

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They're also best suited for any player who has a better ping to the JP regional servers than to the NA regional servers. It's not a distinction of language. It's a distinction of location.

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

I didn't mean to say it's identical and can be understood right away. It's absolutely right that the Japanese use of it evolved during the centuries. I wanted to point it that it's an easier way to learn them, especially since traditional mandarin is the root of the Japanese language. At least it was a lot easier for me, after I first failed at Kanji.

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The downside is that you have to learn traditional because that's what most Japanese use。　For example,　chicken in Japanese is 鶏　vs simplified Chinese 鸡。 I think learning Chinese first would be good if you were going to go hard into it, then eventually transfer over to Japanese but otherwise if you have no interest in learning it at all, it's probably better just to slowly work on kanji from the bottom up.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

It's a distinction of location.

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It's not. Only for people who are not networkers or others who daily work on protocol level. Ping in gaming is one of the biggest urban legends. Completely different protocol, completely different layer, it's packages are always priorized over "actual package payload" ... and pinging a game server is not even suitable for treating it as a best case scenario, since it's often routed over different paths. pinging a server only serves one purpose: to see if the host is alive. In gaming context, it's a feelgood myth for technically inexperienced people, and, of course, a marketing gimmick to sell "better ping times" by raising the ICMP priority in a router slighty, thus decreasing the tcp throughput in the worst case.
tcpping would be correct, though. But nobody uses it while measuring. Something like udpping for typical streamed game content does not exist, since udp is one-way only.

They need to remove J E D F tags

Believe it or not, I can understand Japanese and can write it

But they kick because I have E tag despite I able to play, know mechanic, understand JP and able to chat with them

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Originally Posted by Altimis

They need to remove J E D F tags

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By the way ... maybe I do something wrong, but aren't those tags a typical example of XIV development coming to a full stop at 80%? Whatever I do, after each new login they are reset to my client language only, but not to the languages I actually speak and set in the game itself. I nother words: Remove them, since they are useless anyway.

But well, since the settings are so non-intuitive, maybe I just have not found a secret hidden checkmark somewhere. So an info would be appreciated ^^

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Originally Posted by Altimis

They need to remove J E D F tags

Believe it or not, I can understand Japanese and can write it

But they kick because I have E tag despite I able to play, know mechanic, understand JP and able to chat with them

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There's many times I've been in DF, I see the tank doesn't know what he's doing. I see his tag as [J]. So I attempt to facilitate communications. No response. I try in English. Still no response. It's so irritating when they can't understand either of the languages you try to use. Which means, the people who kick you don't even try before they kick. That's what we call, "jerks".

I play on a JP server and regularly play with JPs and I don't know Japanese at all, except from what I pick up from anime and the rest I use Google Translate. But I am able to get along with that and a google doc of handy phrases.
Plus I've been doing this since launch so I recognize a lot of important words you need to recognize too. Just google translate what I'm posting to check! But here's some starter tips if you can't attend the OPs thing, great thing you're doing btw!

The most important thing I'll stress is, "usually" don't bother trying to join a JP ONLY, unless you've beat it, if you have, it usually goes like this:

me: よろしく - yoroshiku / best regards

(I then inform them politely I am a foreigner)

me: <-- 外人, 大丈夫です? - gaijin (foreigner) / is that ok? - heck you better know "daijobu"

(immediately follow with)
me: クリア経験者 - clear experience player (last character is player), or you can just look for "クリア" which means clear

Which brings me to another point, a PF usually has the word "クリア" meaning they are only looking for clear experience, or 練習 (practice) - now if it's a practice you might be able to join - if so say: "予習はしてあります" this basically means, you've prepared for the fight by watching youtube videos / studying etc...


It's a good idea to private tell the party leader, and politely ask, and if they say no, just say thanks and continue on.

I've gone beyond this and started forming my own mixed language parties, usually I have a few JP friends with me, so when they join they are greeted by Japanese, and then I tell them 2-3 of us are foreigners, and if that's ok etc... This is about the only way to survive on a JP server, make friends, learn the important words and be polite!!! Cannot stress the last one enough!

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After this you need to learn how to talk about loot! You will get booted quick if they feel you don't understand loot - so usually it's either

GREED <-- they understand this, and NEED (ニード) too, they know what it means, use it if you want.

Usually it's greed and job, so know all your jobs - they usually like the 1 char abbreviations:

黒 - black - BLM
盾 - shield - PLD
斧 - axe - WAR
白 - white - WHM
竜 - dragon - DRG
学 - study - SCH
弓 - bow - BRD
モ - hand - MNK
召 - summon - SMN

Sometimes they'll say "部位別" - site-specific, that means one item only, so like tank head etc... Good luck Google Translating your way through that

And lastly you'll see this character a lot: 〆 - this means finished/done, for example if you see in the party finder comments something like 鏡3〆 - well the first one is mirror, 3 finish, that means only 3 ppl can loot on it.
Same goes for 黒〆 - likely 1 player can GREED on BLM and it's gone already - you'll get used to it after a bit and not knowing JP I can pretty much get the point by browsing the PF in Japanese.

Also when they talk, say 了解です - ryokai - I understand or Google Translate gives you 理解, same, use it, talk and translate fast, if you don't talk you'll get booted anyways so just be upfront and POLITE! If they say sorry (gomen) just say thank you with the translator and bow out, even say 抜けときます if you want, (i'll fall out).

If you're polite and play a lot, you may get what I had happen, after a while some of them recognize you, and as long as you've been polite a few times maybe eventually they'll give you a chance :) It happens, lots of JPs are pretty nice once you get to know them!

I've been studying Japanese for years now and in order to improve it I started a character on a Japanese server. In the time it took me to get my SCH to 50, I had made friends and made an FC with someone in which I'm now an Officer in. They all know I'm not Japanese, and that I live in the UK, yet they all took me under their wing. A lot of them even said, 'Thank you for talking in Japanese with me', as a lot of them were worried they'd have to use English. If you can speak enough Japanese, be understood and understand them, then you're golden. I even told them I'm still studying Japanese so I may make mistakes, and they were totally fine with that.


So, to the OP, good luck with your Japanese studies. I am certain they'll be very grateful for you for taking the time to study their language so you can communicate with them better. However, I'd stay clear of JP ONLY Ex/Coil fights if your Japanese is very limited, as if you cannot be understood, or you can't understand them, it may cause problems. I'd wait until you have a bit more Japanese under your belt. And look up their tactics, they do some fights a little differently :)

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Originally Posted by Kamifubuki-Yoakesetsuri

I have a brilliant idea. Why not join an English speaking server instead.

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replying the original sarcasm:

I came from Sargatanas. Great english community. Small hitch though: 300+ ms ping. Have fun dodging Titan with per-emptive.

3 months later, moved to Masamune. Oh wow! No pre-emptive! Dodging means literally dodging! lol
There's one catch tho: JP ONRY! JP ONRY! JP ONRY! JP ONRY! JP ONRY! lmao

Any more brilliant ideas, genius? Perhaps asking me to move country? Maybe you would donate some cash for me doing it along with the paperworks and stuff? :p

Anyways, for OP, even though I doubt I could follow this, I support your idea! ^^

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Originally Posted by Spy

よろしくです! (Yoroshiku desu!)

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I've never seen the "desu" copula used after よろしく before o.O

Anyways, I think this is a good idea for people playing on Japanese servers. Especially those that didn't understand the server selection at launch and don't wanna pay for a transfer now.

Teaching them some basic gaming phrases that they can use would go a long way to begin with.
I don't think anyone would need to flat out learn Hiragana, Katakana and a ton of Kanji to be able to interact in dungeons so I'd leave that as an add on lesson if the goal is specifically to interact in game.

I'll tune in for the lessons and help out if you need it. I have my degree in Japanese and Linguistics and spent my third year studying at a Uni in Kyoto so would be happy to pass on some knowledge where I can :)

Litre! omg! Thank you! That is all very helpful! :D

Ephany- hehe it was used in my coil t5 run several times yesterday. I even brought it up with Kat trying to understand the です being there. We believe it changes the formality of the word, but not 100% positive ;p

No problem Spy :)

I love playing with Japanese players. I am fascinated by them as well. But..I don't think I'll actually go to their servers if I don't know their language. Yes, learning is a good thing. But you can be fascinated by the Japanese and play on an English server. Actually, I've encountered many Japanese people on English servers. Not saying your idea is bad though.

I find it interesting that not one person in this thread has mentioned the auto-translate feature that is built into the game. Works with English Japanese German and French.

レルムリボーンオート機能を翻訳しています：あなたはファイナルファンタジーことを知っていますか？

Wussten Sie, dass Final Fantasy: A Realm Reborn verfügt über eine automatische Funktion zu übersetzen?

Saviez-vous que Final Fantasy: A Realm Reborn a une fonction automatique traduire?


Also, Google Translate is fun :)

I ran a full pt df once for the ultima weapon fight a few mths back.

From what I got, some of them don't know the auto translate sucks so much. They just throw it off as en players don't bother to use it.

Well, it end with them calling me a cowboy thinking I'm American (-_-lll in JP

"We are ready cowboy, go pull (^_^."

What you are doing is cool but I don`t think it will help.

I have lived in Tokyo for 12 years and my wife is JP and plays 14 and I can speak pretty decent Japanese. Well we both joined a PF group for Titan EX and I was speaking Japanese with the party but as we were going to enter one a party member pointed out I wasn`t Japanese. Both me and my wife told them that I can speak and understand Japanese, she also told them I was her husband and we were playing next to each other and that she could explain anything I might not know. Well they still tossed up the JP Olny and booted me. Some JP only is because of communication, some because they think non-jp players are inferior, and others are just racist.

To those who say "Why not go to a NA/EU server" JP refers to the location of the data center not the offical language spoken on the servers.
I also remeber Yoshida saying people should play on whatever data center they want and/or the one closest to where they are in the world.

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Originally Posted by Spy

Litre! omg! Thank you! That is all very helpful! :D

Ephany- hehe it was used in my coil t5 run several times yesterday. I even brought it up with Kat trying to understand the です being there. We believe it changes the formality of the word, but not 100% positive ;p

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です　makes it more formal. よろしく　よろしくです　よろしくおにがいします　

It's a wonderful idea to learn jp. I've taught myself a bit too. But I have to ask you, have you ever thought that maybe they do "jp only" because they only want jp players? As innocent as your idea may come off as, you jumping in a "jp only" put just because you know how to speak jp is like joining a "titan ex, experienced only" after watching a YouTube video.

Yes, I'm sure some won't mind you being en and knowing jp. But there. Are still some who really only want to play with other "real" jp players.

Just something to think about before jumping in a gorup

Cont.

I would suggest, since you seem to respect them enough to try learning to talk to them, that even if you do learn enough to understand and talk with them, that you at least inform them that your English that knows jp. That way they can choose from there if they want to keep you. A lot of jp players are very stern on the aspects of respect. And if you go around jumping in party's all willy nilly it could cause them to resent you.

But I will say good luck. And I wish you thr best. Playing with one of my English speaking jp friends in his group, it was a lot more... Relaxing lol. Can't say the same for him when I brought him to English party's XD.

So getting a chance to play with them regularly, especially if you can understand them, can be rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Ere

I have lived in Tokyo for 12 years and my wife is JP and plays 14 and I can speak pretty decent Japanese. Well we both joined a PF group for Titan EX and I was speaking Japanese with the party but as we were going to enter one a party member pointed out I wasn`t Japanese. Both me and my wife told them that I can speak and understand Japanese, she also told them I was her husband and we were playing next to each other and that she could explain anything I might not know. Well they still tossed up the JP Olny and booted me. Some JP only is because of communication, some because they think non-jp players are inferior, and others are just racist.

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Sorry to hear that happened to you.
Some people are just not worth playing with. Their loss, not yours.

I play on a Japanese server and speak Japanese fluently, but I have my game set to English so people who inspect the party list may notice that (well, to the point where someone said something, it has only happened once so far). I will simply pass on PF groups that say JP ONLY because you never really know if they stated it for communication, or if they are just xenophobic. Testing them out is just not worth the potential drama and bad feelings.

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Originally Posted by Ere

です　makes it more formal. よろしく　よろしくです　よろしくおにがいします　

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Hm. I think this may vary depending on who you ask.

よろしく by itself is just flat casual.

To me よろしくです is still casual. I think it also has a bit of a friendly nuance to it. But maybe ask your wife to see what she thinks. ^^

I have a macro in Japanese stating I am American but know JP and if they are not happy with that I will leave if asked. I use to always hit the macro when I joined a PF group, I never join JP only groups because I know they will ask me to leave regardless of me knowing JP. Once in a while though someone joins the group afer I hit my macro then see I play on th eenglish client and dont want me there and the other JP party members have always sided with the other JP player who wants me to leave. The group I described above wasn not JP only in the PF, I also hit my macro when I joined. But the last player who joined was the one who wanted me to leave and the rest of the party (excluding my wife) fell into the "we side with the other JP player" catagory and just booted me.

With the です in よろしくです I should of said it makes it very slightly a little more fomal. I guess not really worth adding it with how little it does so yes still casual.

I'm really sorry to hear that. And it would serve as an offensive and violation, thus you should report it. Recent post have me realize that the 'JP-Onry' trend are in fact has become tool to promote act of racism and must be stopped. This is an international game, even though brand started in JP.

It was funny when back then I watch this youtube movie of XI about player ranting JP-ONRY and got banned in the end, though I don't really get the rouse. But now that I understand about it, it's not funny anymore.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

I would suggest, since you seem to respect them enough to try learning to talk to them, that even if you do learn enough to understand and talk with them, that you at least inform them that your English that knows jp

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I don't really hide my nationality from them...even if I wanted to (which I don't) They can easily check my language selection ;p If Japanese players are only content with playing with only Japanese players, then I fully understand especially when it comes to bosses with complex strategies. It will be a while before I, or Katella or those who come to the learn-together, are able to fully communicate. But we're doing what we can. So far, I honestly can say that I have not had any issues with Japanese players kicking me out. (for any reason XD) and I have done quite a few Japanese parties. For what we don't understand, we can usually convey our emotions through emotes, and from the little we have learned so far :) (Japanese DF groups aren't very talkative anyway usually) So far, even though we've only had 3 sit-downs atm,

I get so excited when I can look at the Japanese hiragana/Kanji in chat and i can understand. So to me, this is worth it. ^_^ I do understand your concerns though. And I know we may encounter some difficulties or differences in the future. But we usually don't let it eat away at us.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-w20-sobmNx...s640/image.png

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Originally Posted by Spy

For what we don't understand, we can usually convey our emotions through emotes, and from the little we have learned so far :) (Japanese DF groups aren't very talkative anyway usually)

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Best of luck with your learning and your adventures!

Except for my game's interface settings, my entire time in Eorzea is spent speaking Japanese. I'm not a frequent DF joiner, but there have been a few exceptional English speaking players I've come across. Why? Because they were just really polite and friendly.

In my humble opinion from the other side of the fence, things that can go a long way:

• Greetings! "こんばんは！" and "よろしくお願いします" or "よろしくです！” if you want to be a bit cute. "よろしく" is a bit unemphatic in my opinion, and "よろ" to strangers is almost crude.

• Or even using the auto-translate. [Hello!] [Nice to meet you!]

• Japanese emoticons can also help to lighten things up.

• Emotes also help. Not too many players use them in DF, so a /bow or even a /cheer or /psyche can help to break the ice.

• At the end of a run, say "おつかれさまでした！" or the auto-translate equivalents like [Good job!] and [Let's play together again] even if you may never see them again.

• Emotes again at the end also help.

• And please, please never leave a Japanese DF group after a wipe without saying anything. "Bad" parties I've been in keep trying and trying until they clear, or the timer runs out. I have been in groups that vote abandon after failing multiple times, but there is always some sort of discussion about it first. The only ones who have ever just up and left were English speaking players and it leaves a bad taste. I don't know what the auto-translate options would be, but please try to find something polite to say if leaving is unavoidable.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

I ran a full pt df once for the ultima weapon fight a few mths back.

From what I got, some of them don't know the auto translate sucks so much. They just throw it off as en players don't bother to use it.

Well, it end with them calling me a cowboy thinking I'm American (-_-lll in JP

"We are ready cowboy, go pull (^_^."

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"Sure thing Samurai" :P

I was called that once by JP. I think it's kinda cute. It's all in good fun.

Seems to me like the problem would be resolved by swapping to a server that predominantly speaks the language you speak.

There are some major Mob Hunt Linkshells on Masamune, which contain JP and EN speaking players and they co-exist perfectly. The only time JP Only rises up is when people want to take down primals or the Coil

http://youtu.be/oFt55MOKcTE

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Originally Posted by Mikita

And please, please never leave a Japanese DF group after a wipe without saying anything.

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Thankies for that! ^^ Actually, I tend to do a lot of that already :D I'm a player that usually can't stand silence during dungeons/etc... even if everyone else in my party can only speak Japanese. So I'll be emote-happy sometimes. /cheering on my party members, /bow'ing....etc.... I've also never up and left a party without informing them first. As a matter of fact, I usually try to hold it together if possible. Had an instance where our tank up and left in the very beginning of Sashtasha for no reason whatsoever, the other members were JP so the only thing I could do was emote my disappointment. They were very patient though, so lucked out and one of my amazing friends was available to quickly take his place, and we completed the dungeon with no more issues. There was a lot of laughing and dancing in that run from all of us. XD (My friend helped re-lighting up the mood by flirting with the captive npc girls)

If things are hopeless in groups (And the whole group is in agreement of that), I will usually apologize, /bow then wish them a good journey before leaving. But that hasn't happened often.

Perhaps you should have titled this thread "We're on a JP server, let's learn JP!" XD
Best of luck to you guys!! :D

btw, <Let's do it!> = yoroshiku in the auto translate dictionary. I'm guessing <Nice to meet you> = Hajimemashite. Go figure. :/
At the end, <Good game> for otsukaresamadeshita.

lol yeah, I should have worded it better XD That was my bad

I have several American friends who uses decent Japanese with Kanji.They told me "I took Japanese class in High school".
It pretty surprised me because many of Japanese (include me)cannot use what we learned in high school　in dairy basis.
Spy,I can understand your feeling,I also can't stand silence.So when you use emote,It's useful to grab the slight difference in emote,when it appears log in English,and Japanese.
I'd like to help you about it,but how can I do?

By the way,I'm so glad to find your thread.がんばって！