Do you guys think SE will ever change the way Coils lockout works?

I think that what people should really be asking for if they just want to help people learn to do it is not a change to the lockouts but a practice mode that's exactly the same fight, has no lockout and drops no loot.

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Originally Posted by zPanda

This is the solution I was thinking as well and I think makes sense. If anyone in the party has already cleared for the week, no loot will drop. You can help friends learn the fight, but you can't sell runs or gear up a bunch of people by "carrying" them.

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You can also have people join groups without saying they've cleared, and preventing everyone else from getting loot.

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Originally Posted by Brainberry

Says the guy with a animus lol

Progression or leveling would be quicker, by the time someone gets all their atmas you can level 2 characters to 50. Progression takes even less.

But your excuses are entertaining so keep them coming.

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You make it seem like Animus is a time consuming weapon to get if you go about it at a casual pace since they were introduced. Don't bother responding if you're not going to contribute to the thread. I won't bother responding after this :D

My contribution is stop complaining :cool: All your whines have a solution that doesn't need a removal of the lockout and if you REALLY wanted to help your FC members you can.

Leveling can be done in a quicker and causal way also, doesnt matter how quick or slow you want to do it, the time spent doing it will always be less than that atrocious route for Novus.

Everything you've been saying is just you contradicting yourself, of course you should stop replying :D.

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Originally Posted by Brainberry

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Ehh, it's not contradicting at all. You're just missing the point, lol. Even if leveling to 50 doesn't take long, it's still a very poor solution. It should never have to come to "oh you need help clearing T8? Let me go level an new character to help you out. Ask me for help again next month".

"My contribution is stop complaining "

And ignorant thing to state. These message boards serve as a way for the devs to communicate with their fanbase. Clearly you aren't aware of that so I forgive you :p

Why so many nay sayers are so obsessed with CT lootlock? im pretty sure everyone understand that it wont work with coil for obivious reasons.

Instead it should go like this: Lets say you enter T6 like usually, ok you get it down wohoo time to see what lewlt it dopped(using tank as an example here)ooh tank bracers dropped and now you are rolling on those and win, boom! now you are lootlocked for T6 untill next reset just like you are now due unable to do said turn more than once in a week.

So here is where the magic starts, same scenario as previously but instead tank bracers your group will get caster ring, now ofcourse you will hit pass so your casters will get it, but wait!.. boom! you are now ALSO lootlocked for T6 untill next reset even if you passed said item, again same as it is now if you dont get your drop on that week.

With this method coil will stay same in terms of loot but you are still able to do multiple runs but you cant roll for anything till reset, and what comes to "carrying" unless your static is superduperawesomehcbadarses you really cant do 100% carrying in coil2.

The way around lockouts is to make alts.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The way around lockouts is to make alts.

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http://i34.tinypic.com/2ebqvbk.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The way around lockouts is to make alts.

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This alone is a problem. Should not have to use alts in a game that suppose to allow you to play everything on 1 account.

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This alone is a problem. Should not have to use alts in a game that suppose to allow you to play everything on 1 account.

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Why is the onus on us to deal with bad design? Creating an alt on the same server actually costs money. Plenty of people wouldn't do that on principle alone, not to mention the insult of having to level another character to play content we've already payed for, and then payed another $2 a month for. SE offering a paid reset of coil is more simple than doing this. Fixing the lockout so it's fair to everyone would be simpler than this.

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Selling runs is bad m'kay

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The selling runs argument is naff, who cares if some people do it, what difference at all does that make to other players? A few more bads running around in someone else's precious coil gear? Who really gives a toss. It's been going on since 2.0 and in just about every MMO in existence.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

The selling runs argument is naff, who cares if some people do it, what difference at all does that make to other players?

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The dev team cares.

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my worry is the breaking down of the hierachy when players who are unable to clear content overly rely on those who can and begin getting powerful items.

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Originally Posted by QuCont

The dev team cares.

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This is a poor point to make regarding this issue

While that may be his current opinion, the question is if the development team cares more about the risk of people selling gear than they do the retention of players to begin with.

More and more players are leaving / taking extended breaks from the game over this, if 1.0 has shown anything it is that the Developers aren't always correct about everything and some design choices can be more costly than others.

Yoshida has been willing to admit he's been wrong before, his comments on the future of class/job design has shown this, which is why players should continue to make the appeal that they do not like this sort of lockout design on content as it only hurts the player base in both the short and long term.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

This is a poor point to make regarding this issue

While that may be his current opinion, the question is if the development team cares more about the risk of people selling gear than they do the retention of players to begin with.

More and more players are leaving / taking extended breaks from the game over this, if 1.0 has shown anything it is that the Dev aren't always correct about everything and some design choices can be more costly than others.

Yoshida has been willing to admit he's been wrong before, his comments on the future of class/job design has shown this which is why players should continue to make the appeal that they do not like this sort of lockout design on content as it only hurts the player base in both the short and long term.

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Please, tell me how they aren't correct when this system works just fine for end game encounters in pretty much every MMO there is? Please, tell me.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Please, tell me how they aren't correct when this system works just fine for end game encounters in pretty much every MMO there is? Please, tell me.

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For starters it doesn't, to the effect that even WoW which is probably the game most associated with this model has changed it.

In addition most games where this sort of system was created they were tied with a 1/1 lockout to character mechanic you played 1 class on 1 character so those games encouraged you to make more than one in order to "beat" the lockout.

The armory system that this game uses as it's base design completely goes against this concept alone. One of the major selling points and promoted game mechanics is the ability to play multiple classes/jobs on one character, effectively removing the need for Alts that so many MMOs before needed.

Other games have shown that there are alternatives to needing a lockout system like this, one of them was this same companies previous MMO and most successful investment prior to this one, please don't try to act like there is only one solution to this, it has been proven for years that is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

I think that what people should really be asking for if they just want to help people learn to do it is not a change to the lockouts but a practice mode that's exactly the same fight, has no lockout and drops no loot.



You can also have people join groups without saying they've cleared, and preventing everyone else from getting loot.

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wouldn't be a problem - before entry just have a pop up window saying someone in the party has already cleared it and ask for a confirmation to enter - simple enuff.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

For starters it doesn't, to the effect that even WoW which is probably the game most associated with this model has changed it.

In addition most games where this sort of system was created they were tied with a 1/1 lockout to character mechanic you played 1 class on 1 character so those games encouraged you to make more than one in order to "beat" the lockout.

The armory system that this game uses as it's base design completely goes against this concept alone. One of the major selling points and promoted game mechanics is the ability to play multiple classes/jobs on one character, effectively removing the need for Alts that so many MMOs before needed.

Other games have shown that there are alternatives to needing a lockout system like this, one of them was this same companies previous MMO and most successful investment prior to this one, please don't try to act like there is only one solution to this it has been proven for years that is not the case.

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Except WoW has not changed it for end game. The top end raids still have a standard lockout. They've tweaked it slightly, but it still boils down to "killed this boss this week, can't fight it again til next week" So let's throw WoW and XI out the window and look at other MMOs? Not everything has to benefit the player, in some cases it's bad. When game devs create "hard"(subjective of course) end game content, it's designed to limit who can finish it to a certain skill level. Selling runs will always happen, but if you make it EASIER to sell, it skews that number. And I can bet most players will say something like "who cares?" and when someone responds that the devs do, it all of a sudden doesn't matter what the devs think at all.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Except WoW has not changed it for end game. The top end raids still have a standard lockout. They've tweaked it slightly, but it still boils down to "killed this boss this week, can't fight it again til next week" So let's throw WoW and XI out the window and look at other MMOs? Not everything has to benefit the player, in some cases it's bad. When game devs create "hard"(subjective of course) end game content, it's designed to limit who can finish it to a certain skill level. Selling runs will always happen, but if you make it EASIER to sell, it skews that number. And I can bet most players will say something like "who cares?" and when someone responds that the devs do, it all of a sudden doesn't matter what the devs think at all.

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Because once again 1.0 was a harsh lesson showing the mentality that the Devs know better than the community does can backfire, especially when the community is constantly bringing complaints to their attention (Fatigue system anyone?)

While the Devs are the ones making the game the players are the ones paying for and playing it, or not as is increasingly becoming the case for some players.

I hate to say it but you can't count WoW or XI out of this as much as many players would like to, the current game is heavily inspired by the themes and mechanics WoW has laid forward, not to mention XI has given SE over 10 years of MMO development experience there's a reason people played for so long.

The point is there are more than two choices here, it isn't just "This needs a lockout" or "Remove the lockout with no alternative conditions"

I see numerous posters on this forum repeatedly touting that this is a "new game" any time a comparison to the things that worked in 1.23 but are no longer in the game or direct comparisons to WoW or FFXI are brought up (not saying you specifically but both XI and 1.23 did work without lockouts) yet constantly using "Well other MMOs do it this way" in regards to other mechanics.

It doesn't work both ways on this, sorry.

I threw a post up on page 3 that has a list of 20+ threads some of which go hundreds of posts deep into this issue and many of the points cover this better than i can.

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Originally Posted by QuCont

The dev team cares.

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Makes me like him even more.

Were in good hands.