Having problems beating (or getting to) T9? Here's a tip!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alukah

I'm a bit perplexed with this...

" One last point about advice: the tank was a random player, to them, the other party members are random players also. So why should the tank assume any of the other party members' advice is WORTH taking? "

Why WOULDN'T it be worth taking? Reject any piece of advice just because it comes from someone not in your circle of friends? I mean you're not even stopping to analyze if it's good or bad feedback, instead just rejecting it as soon as it comes.

And I'm surprised it took 4 pages for someone to say a sort of "don't tell me how to play", I'm not bossing anyone or ordering them to do something, really that attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

---

People tend to trust their own opinions more than those of strangers. That's all I was saying. Love the defensiveness though. I was just trying to offer friendly, unsolicited advice! You get the irony right?

You're right, the ability to examine advice without passing it off due to the source is a lost art.

So this is a post about an archer being rude to a tank. The tank calls him out on his low DPS, he admits to not trying to help the group yet he wants the tank to play a certain way. Pot meet kettle.

To the OP, you seemed to attempt to give advice the right way, too bad your archer pal made what could of been a good learning experience for him into a childish back and forth.

Either way, like many have stated, you can use a marauder in T9. I guess that archer would of thought of that if he wasn't "talking to his LS" all the time. :D

I remember when I was experimenting with the applications of an ACN and it's cross class abilities, what a ****-storm I created from one of my threads. Another example would be using Titan to tank as a SMN while the tank can DPS since they'll have higher damage out-put than a pet would out of tank stance. Got mocked for that one too. Then it became a good strategy to use Titan to tank on Thornmarch Extreme, and yet clearly no one was like "hey remember that guy that was using a pet to tank to help out a tank in a dungeon and how he was just playing his job incorrectly instead of being seen as using something outside the norm and complacency of end-game routines? Yeah me either, let's mock him now then say glory unto Haruhi a month from now when we use a SMN to tank something for us in an encounter with Titan."

This community sometimes I swear.

There is nothing wrong with experimenting different cross class skills. However the role of a tank is to build enmity and using mitigation skills to take as little damage as possible so using blood for blood when you are tanking is an awful decision to make. Don't get me wrong there might be some situations as off tank where an increase in dps is welcomed but when your actually tanking is not one of them.

When your main tanking your dps is the last priority and even then its not important in the slightest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asakura93

No, that's just like being a Hunter with Growl on, or a Warlock with Voidwalker pet.

Tanks want to do their job, and of course they'll start freaking out once they see that one or two mobs haven't gotten any aggro on them, because y'know they COULD be on the Healer or someone else, so they try to figure out who has the aggro, then find out it's the pet.
Then they start fighting the pet for aggro, which they can't win (at least not in low level dungeons).

I also hate it when some SMN thinks he has to use Topaz Carbuncle/Titan-egi. Just don't use it. It's not worth it.

---

I don't know what either of those classes are but I'll assume it's from WoW. The reason they can't win the aggro is precisely why I do it in the first place. It's helping more than people want to admit and fighting against it is exactly what's wrong with the community in the first place. There ARE other strategies and they ARE just, if not more, efficient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Najara

I don't know what either of those classes are but I'll assume it's from WoW. The reason they can't win the aggro is precisely why I do it in the first place. It's helping more than people want to admit and fighting against it is exactly what's wrong with the community in the first place. There ARE other strategies and they ARE just, if not more, efficient.

---

Yes, it was a class from WoW, the "Archer/Bard" equivalent but able to use a pet. As to the rest of this post...I don't follow your logic at all. It doesn't help in any way, unless the tank is doing a poor job tanking. Otherwise it just causes problems. Yes there are different strategies, but making a tank compete with a tanking pet isn't efficient whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yes, it was a class from WoW, the "Archer/Bard" equivalent but able to use a pet. As to the rest of this post...I don't follow your logic at all. It doesn't help in any way, unless the tank is doing a poor job tanking. Otherwise it just causes problems. Yes there are different strategies, but making a tank compete with a tanking pet isn't efficient whatsoever.

---

Who said they needed to compete? You can't follow my logic because you refuse to think differently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Najara

Who said they needed to compete? You can't follow my logic because you refuse to think differently.

---

I can't follow it because it doesn't help in most situations. For the record I'm not closed minded enough to deny that something works even if it's unusual, or doesn't work like your methods. You won't meet a lot, if any tanks that are willing to deal with that. It actually makes their job harder which seems to be what you want to happen. I did take a look at your earlier post by the way...while your intentions are somewhat good, it does more harm than anything else. The post referring to a WoW Hunter having their pet's Growl on hit the nail on the head.

You dont find stuff like this in jp servers..

I think the tank is referring to using Blood for Blood (+30% Dmg Given, +25% Dmg Received) alongside Foresight. (+20% Defense)...

It is a proper way to increase DPS (which makes the dungeon faster) without really suffering too much extra damage and making life for the healer horrible. The tank is obviously leveling an alt, and wants it to go faster and tried to deal more damage (faster run) without inconveniencing the healer very much.

It's just someone (archer) getting angry they didnt get to control another player. This tank obviously was making effort to meet his and his healers "needs".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silvanoshi

I think the tank is referring to using Blood for Blood (+30% Dmg Given, +25% Dmg Received) alongside Foresight. (+20% Defense)...

It is a proper way to increase DPS (which makes the dungeon faster) without really suffering too much extra damage and making life for the healer horrible. The tank is obviously leveling an alt, and wants it to go faster and tried to deal more damage (faster run) without inconveniencing the healer very much.

---

Actually, Foresight doesn't reduce incoming damage by anything close to 20%, so it doesn't really offset anything. Not to mention since he's not on Lancer it will only give him a 10% damage bonus, not 30%.

Wait, so you're telling me this whole time I've been tanking wrong? Man, screw playing WAR, I should totally go back to playing MRD so i can use bfb. hells yeah!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

Actually, Foresight doesn't reduce incoming damage by anything close to 20%, so it doesn't really offset anything. Not to mention since he's not on Lancer it will only give him a 10% damage bonus, not 30%.

---

I never said it did. You're making an assumption. I said he was trying to deal more DPS without suffering too much extra damage.. I'm not sure how you read that it was mitigating it all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silvanoshi

I never said it did. You're making an assumption. I said he was trying to deal more DPS without suffering too much extra damage.. I'm not sure how you read that it was mitigating it all.

---

No, that's not what you said.

This "It is a proper way to increase DPS (which makes the dungeon faster) without really suffering too much extra damage and making life for the healer horrible." is what you said. You didn't say he was trying, you said it's a proper way. And going with what you bolded and underlined, it's NOT a proper way. He gets 10% more damage output, and since Foresight is maybe 5% reduction at best, and only for physical, still taking at least 20% more damage while doing it. Probably closer to the full 25%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

No, that's not what you said.

This "It is a proper way to increase DPS (which makes the dungeon faster) without really suffering too much extra damage and making life for the healer horrible." is what you said. You didn't say he was trying, you said it's a proper way. And going with what you bolded and underlined, it's NOT a proper way. He gets 10% more damage output, and since Foresight is maybe 5% reduction at best, and only for physical, still taking at least 20% more damage while doing it. Probably closer to the full 25%.

---

"Proper" and "too much extra damage" is subject to opinion. The tank, again, was going out of his way to increase his DPS and mitigate incoming damage from B4B. Absolutely nothing wrong with what he did in a low level dungeon unless his healer was struggling to keep him healed.

Thats a whole new level of bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntington

and yet clearly no one was like "hey remember that guy that was using a pet to tank to help out a tank in a dungeon and how he was just playing his job incorrectly instead of being seen as using something outside the norm and complacency of end-game routines? Yeah me either, let's mock him now then say glory unto Haruhi a month from now when we use a SMN to tank something for us in an encounter with Titan."

This community sometimes I swear.

---

There is quite a difference between using Titan as part of a boss strat pre-agreed by the party and using Titian in DF before the party has started, because you "had a feeling the Tank would suck".

I'm just gonna say this, its friggin haukke manor. It can be duo'd (ive done it with archer/cnj) So if he is using bfb and getting more dps, who cares? Its making the dungeon go faster, heals arent heavily needed in that dungeon.

So what gives?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoint

I'm just gonna say this, its friggin haukke manor. It can be duo'd (ive done it with archer/cnj) So if he is using bfb and getting more dps, who cares? Its making the dungeon go faster, heals arent heavily needed in that dungeon.

So what gives?

---

It depends on the amount of pull and the healer actually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asael

And this as well ^

---

Any time you hear "why are you using..." are you SERIOUSLY surprised people will be on the defensive?

"Why are you parking there?"
"Why do you look like that?"
"Why did you mark those?"

See how that sounds? I don't mean to be the Nanny here - please, a lot of us have thick skins. But any time you do "why are you" - you're just asking for it :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

Any time you hear "why are you using..." are you SERIOUSLY surprised people will be on the defensive?

"Why are you parking there?"
"Why do you look like that?"
"Why did you mark those?"

See how that sounds? I don't mean to be the Nanny here - please, a lot of us have thick skins. But any time you do "why are you" - you're just asking for it :P

---

It sounds like they're asking a question. If you feel there's more to it than that when reading text, then you have issues.

This thread...
People defending the dude who was doing something he shouldn't, used bad arguments as in foresight nulifies BfB dmg taken increase which is just...and then proceeds to ironically say "you are not very bright are you?" and insult people for showing him how he was wrong..
And then some dudes come here "OH, but you are wrong we did T9 with marauder", please...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntington

snip what a ****-storm I created from one of my threads. snip
Then it became a good strategy to use Titan to tank on Thornmarch Extreme
snip

---

ROFL poor you, cause it's totally the same using titan on mog EX as using it in a dungeon right? I'm just speechless at someone actually thinking it's a good idea to use titan to "help the tank" in a dungeon by making stuff die slower in exchange for taking 1 silly add off of him...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntington

Then it became a good strategy to use Titan to tank on Thornmarch Extreme, and yet clearly no one was like "hey remember that guy that was using a pet to tank to help out a tank in a dungeon and how he was just playing his job incorrectly instead of being seen as using something outside the norm and complacency of end-game routines? Yeah me either, let's mock him now then say glory unto Haruhi a month from now when we use a SMN to tank something for us in an encounter with Titan."

This community sometimes I swear.

---

I remember your post about you using Titan-egi. You claimed that you had it out when you zoned in to the dungeon, then left it out "because you didn't trust the tank to hold aggro". Without any evidence whatsoever to say they wouldn't (you just made this decision before anything had even been pulled.)
What then followed was no more than you trolling your tank for no reason.

So yeah, I'm curious- why would anyone think back on that when using Titan-egi for Thornmarch Extreme? The two scenarios don't exactly compare- you were just being pompous and self-entitled, whilst the Thornmarch Ex thing is actually an innovative use.

You have some serious hero syndrome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LucySw

lol im curious how he world hold my aggro when im starting to dps with my brd... óo (most of the time im tanking with randoms... xD)

---

To be fair, most bards are just assholes when it comes to initial threat. Do they need to start off with full dps before the tank has enough time to even get a second weapon skill off? No, they do not. Bards are the only class that consistently takes threat at the beginning of pulls and it's not because they are some kind of godly dps. It's because they are a ranged, burst DD class with no casting times and fail to understand that tanks don't start out with a Rage of Halone or Butcher's Block as their first move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoint

I'm just gonna say this, its friggin haukke manor. It can be duo'd (ive done it with archer/cnj) So if he is using bfb and getting more dps, who cares? Its making the dungeon go faster, heals arent heavily needed in that dungeon.

So what gives?

---

A lvl 29 marauder (obviously) lacking base stats given by the soul of the warrior, gear around his level or way under, not synced, taking extra damage from bfb, specially on pulls of 4 or 5, the fairy alone couldn't keep up with him.

Are you saying that a synced scholar with cleric stance, dots + bane all mobs would deal less dmg than a marauder with 10% from bfb? I really doubt he was making the run go faster.

I'm honestly wondering what would he do if it was BL instead of Haukke, I'm pretty sure he would have died with one hit from Aiatar.

For those still mentioning the level of the content, really what stops a misinformed person from misusing some skills if you don't tell them at early levels? Do we have to wait until coil to tell a tank they are not using flash enough / not using shield oath?

This post insults me! I happen to use Foresight AND Blood for Blood to remove the penalty, and do so in Turn 8! The sarcasm of this post insul.... oh WAIT! I'm a DRAGOON! hohohohohohohohoho!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alukah

A lvl 29 marauder (obviously) lacking base stats given by the soul of the warrior, gear around his level or way under, not synced, taking extra damage from bfb, specially on pulls of 4 or 5, the fairy alone couldn't keep up with him.

---

I'm not saying if he was misinformed or not, im saying its not a big deal. More dps is more dps, no matter how you slice it. Also, the point of a scholar is not to just let the fairy heal and the scholar dps. You making THAT statement makes you sounds just as misinformed. Going in as a scholar in lower dungeons, I also let the fairy heal and just dps. I do NOT however, go in and expect that I myself wont have to heal. The dungeons are boring enough aren't they?

It wasn't BL, it was haukke on normal mode.

Aside from that, it's simple. Advice was offered, they didn't take it. Why does it need to go further? Why does their need to be a post about it? Especially one as condescending as this? Title and all.... Drama queen

i had a guy join my t5 learning PT as a warrior yesterday and asked if he could DPS(he was decked out in melded wolfram gear), as in, he wanted to take up a DPS slot as a warrior and still have 2 other real tanks. when i not so politely kicked him from my party he thru a big tantrum about how "i didnt even give him a chance"

heres the thing, tanks need to tank, first and foremost. if you come up with some great scheme to turn your tank into DPS thats great. but dont join parties with the intention of performing another role than the one you queued for or joined the PF for. you are taking up a slot that could be used be someone who actually wants to perform that role

dont get me wrong, the guy in my t5 group and the guy the OP is talking about are probably cool people with interesting ideas, i just think those kinds of things should be saved for grouping with friends and messing around. dont force your experiments on randoms in the DF or on people in the PF who are just trying to get a simple clear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

Any time you hear "why are you using..." are you SERIOUSLY surprised people will be on the defensive?

"Why are you parking there?"
"Why do you look like that?"
"Why did you mark those?"

See how that sounds? I don't mean to be the Nanny here - please, a lot of us have thick skins. But any time you do "why are you" - you're just asking for it :P

---

If you're really bothered by questions, especially like those mentioned, you have some serious self-esteem issues rooted in insecurity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alhandra

when i not so politely kicked him from my party he thru a big tantrum about how "i didnt even give him a chance"

---

Gee, I wonder why he "thru a big tantrum."

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/imag...8559197838.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pibz

This thread...
snip

---

You can't do easy math if you don't understand that a tank can do more damage than a SMN's pets if he's not in tank stance, a WAR especially if they're present, which one was for the dungeon. Even if they are, they can still out-perform Garuda spamming Wind Blade, and using the other two abilities occasionally, feel free to wail on a dummy in Coerthas to test it. Ifrit would more match their damage since his auto-attacks are combined with his actions.

And if when I have it out and the tank screws up and gets someone else killed and I and the healer only survive on the very first pull, then I'm fairly sure I'm psychic because Titan did prevent us from dying there as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganvire

Gee, I wonder why he "thru a big tantrum."

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/imag...8559197838.gif

---

Amazing the gall some people have here; the fact the guy's tantrum was about how he wasn't given a chance to dps war when invited as a tank would be all I'd need to know I made the right choice in kicking him "without giving him a chance".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexia89

I remember your post about you using Titan-egi. You claimed that you had it out when you zoned in to the dungeon, then left it out "because you didn't trust the tank to hold aggro". Without any evidence whatsoever to say they wouldn't (you just made this decision before anything had even been pulled.)
What then followed was no more than you trolling your tank for no reason.

So yeah, I'm curious- why would anyone think back on that when using Titan-egi for Thornmarch Extreme? The two scenarios don't exactly compare- you were just being pompous and self-entitled, whilst the Thornmarch Ex thing is actually an innovative use.

You have some serious hero syndrome.

---

I had a whole diatribe typed up, browser screwed me over and said I clicked away from the page, I'm not typing it up again. Deal with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Huntington

Titan Egi tank FTW.

---

Yep, I second this. Titan Egi in Thornmarch Extreme is waaaaaayyy easier on everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Amazing the gall some people have here; the fact the guy's tantrum was about how he wasn't given a chance to dps war when invited as a tank would be all I'd need to know I made the right choice in kicking him "without giving him a chance".

---

The fact that he decided to throw a small tantrum himself and kick the tank because he suggested trying something unorthodox was not the right choice. He could've easily been polite, said something to the effect of, "Hey. Sorry, but I don't think that will work. Can you switch to MT/OT instead?" and let the person answer for himself. If he chose to be an asshat and threw a tantrum over being asked POLITELY to MT or OT, then by all means kick him from the group. Stop thinking swine-like, non-diplomatic and clearly antisocial behavior is an excuse to paint yourself as a victim when the issue here is you, not the person asking kindly to try something different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganvire

snip

---

he didnt ask politely, he asked me if he could jointhe group as a war and just started barking orders. it wasnt until we got into the instance itself where he said "ohhh wheres the other tank?? im here to dps" when i told him that we have been working hard on our clear and didnt want to spend the time f**king around he tried to insult me by saying shit like "my FC sells these clears its your loss i just want to help blah blah blah" he then went on to blast myself and PT in shouts in mor dhona

so ya if that doesnt warrant being kicked from the PT and then subsequently being added my blacklist then i dont know what does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alhandra

:p

---

Oh, okay. So when exactly does this quick line (vvvvv)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alhandra

i had a guy join my t5 learning PT as a warrior yesterday and asked if he could DPS(he was decked out in melded wolfram gear), as in, he wanted to take up a DPS slot as a warrior and still have 2 other real tanks.

---

say anything about "barking orders?" You said he "asked." There's a difference between being an ass and asking. It's your word against his at this point, and quite frankly I don't believe you. Try harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganvire

snip

---

uh sorry i wasnt more clear i guess? i really could give a shit less if you "believe" me, but he "asked" to join the party as a warrior. once in party he didnt want to tank he wanted to dps. wtf more do you need than that, i didnt need another tank, i needed another dps. i asked one of our tanks to switch so that he could join AS A TANK.

tbqh tho, i dont care if i was polite, the dude was wasting my time, and then acted like a douche when i told him he was wasting my time. and quite frankly, responding to you is a waste of my time xD

If warriors are dealing more damage than your dps players, your dps players either suck or they are severely undergeared compared to the warrior.