High DPS: What's the point?

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

To clarify on reward I don't mean an actual reward, I mean faster dungeon clears with less hassle.

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Keep that speed running to Brayflox HM ok...? The speed runners already way over infest that one.

Face-rolling is not the primary objective of this game. For some players may be fun do that sometimes, but it is not the intended goal or purpose.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Aside from the forced enrage in Ifrit Ex (I think Levi Ex has been ninja fixed cause I haven't seen it in a while despite pushing him really low), your other examples don't really hold too much water. Instead of complaining about high DPS making things harder, adjust your strat to account for the high DPS or throttle your DPS so you can abuse phase changes and get even more DPS uptime. Blowing conflag up too fast so the fireball doesn't get fed? Hit Twin some instead of the conflag or just ignore feeding altogether.

Despite that, I don't really see too much of an issue with higher DPS making things harder. It means you're burning through things faster forcing mechanics to cascade... but you're still killing faster.

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Adjusting for higher dps is not the problem though, and I doubt any groups capable of clearing T9 have issues holding dps. The problem is that it makes fights less fun and negates the point of improving your gear in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

Keep that speed running to Brayflox HM ok...? The speed runners already way over infest that one.

Face-rolling is not the primary objective of this game. For some players may be fun do that sometimes, but it is not the intended goal or purpose.

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For the record I do not speed run BF or anything. There's some pre-suppositions in there which I won't address. Enjoy the game your way whatever it is. :)

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Originally Posted by Foo01

Scoring high DPS numbers because you got gear is not "doing too good." That is a completely wrong attitude or idea. Being able to control and manage your DPS and power well and responsibly is what separate good from bad. Good gear is just like a good race car, but at the end of the day it is driver skill that matter. Pedal to metal guarantees you go into wall at the first turn or fly over the cliff.

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At least the driver has tools to manage his engine temperature, MPH/kph etc where we as players are totally blind. We get a bosses HP bar with no percentage indication aside from us estimating, yet so many mechanics at percentage based.. when you aren't provided with all the tools you need to succeed it is a problem for the designer

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Originally Posted by Foo01

Keep that speed running to Brayflox HM ok...? The speed runners already way over infest that one.

Face-rolling is not the primary objective of this game. For some players may be fun do that sometimes, but it is not the intended goal or purpose.

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The objective of the game is what each player decides it is, only bad players decide what the objective is for everyone else. Which is exactly what speed runners do when they don't communicate, and it is also exactly what you are doing right now by telling everyone what the objective of the game is. Yes, I am calling you as bad a player as the people you are calling out

Yeah, guys. Get chatty or go AFK so you don't over-deeps. How dare you have fun actually playing your class! In a boss fight no less. For shame.


/s (in case it wooshed over people advocating doing jack once geared)

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Originally Posted by Ricky

At least the driver has tools to manage his engine temperature, MPH/kph etc where we as players are totally blind. We get a bosses HP bar with no percentage indication aside from us estimating, yet so many mechanics at percentage based.. when you aren't provided with all the tools you need to succeed it is a problem for the designer

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Well that is very different problem than what is high DPS good for, now is it. Perhaps you are thinking about early warning indicators, some sort of animation/animated tell?

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Originally Posted by Ricky

The objective of the game is what each player decides it is, only bad players decide what the objective is for everyone else. Which is exactly what speed runners do when they don't communicate, and it is also exactly what you are doing right now by telling everyone what the objective of the game is. Yes, I am calling you as bad a player as the people you are calling out

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And what objective have I imposed on anyone? LOL. They have problem with too much DPS, I have a solution ease up on the throttle. It is hardly dictating to them the objective of the game. Call me a bad player, big whoopeedoo.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

Well that is very different problem than what is high DPS good for, now is it. Perhaps you are thinking about early warning indicators, some sort of animation/animated tell?

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I think just a % indicator on the mob's HP bar would be helpful considering the detailed %'s some people are listing for phase changes and when to halt dps accordingly.

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

Adjusting for higher dps is not the problem though, and I doubt any groups capable of clearing T9 have issues holding dps. The problem is that it makes fights less fun and negates the point of improving your gear in the first place.

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Can you cite specific examples of how it makes fights less "fun"?

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Can you cite specific examples of how it makes fights less "fun"?

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For T6, my group does super slug method, however we can not kill the super slug without a level 2 limit break. We have the dps to push the boss after the first honey, but at that point, we won't have enough limit. So, in order to do the fight we all end up standing around doing absolutely nothing.

WoW are people actually defending the design of having your dps go afk at x% of boss hp?

#toomuchdpsforyou

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcwGzLbdHgw

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

For T6, my group does super slug method, however we can not kill the super slug without a level 2 limit break. We have the dps to push the boss after the first honey, but at that point, we won't have enough limit. So, in order to do the fight we all end up standing around doing absolutely nothing.

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So you're saying that your group simply didn't adapt to their higher DPS.

My group had this issue a couple weeks ago. We figured we had enough DPS at that point to just burn so we just changed our strat to keep attacking the boss like normal and once we got LB2 we'd Caster LB to get rid of the slugs and keep on trucking. Problem solved and the fight became much simpler. We also could have just kept damaging the boss until LB2 then just done the Super Slug method a bit later as keeping the slugs alive isn't that big of a deal.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

I think they need to get rid of HP based mechanics (but leave phase changes to HP checkpoints) and make it so phase changes happen after a mechanic not during... This whole HP based mechanic is horrid.

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The Problem they have is: all mechanics are based on BOSS...
There is not a single "gambit" that reacts on Player HP or Job...
And mostly not only BOSS HP, they have focused too much on a strict timeframe...

They have to get rid of that stupid static programming and adding more variables - no not randomness in "attacks" but lets say "delay if..." or "attack with X if..." and so on...
With well programmed Triggers you will get an awesome Bossfight, but we do not have them yet.

i believe with this thread and especialy the "curent state of endgame" thread by the japanese player geting momentum we really should get a response from the devs on this issue and i hope whoever is monitoring these threads brings it to their atention.

curently.
hardcores are geting anoyed by their hard earned gear being punished
mainstream are anoyed by the titan ex wall and over reliance on everybody doing the tight rope perfectly
casuals cannot even clear or hope to clear or accesss any of this content.

It's called "skill", learn to get it. It's an added challenge when dishing out too much DPS will result in a wipe, it forces you to adapt and pull back on the throttle. It's similar in concept to racing where sometimes, you actually have to go slowly at a particular section of a course to achieve a faster time. You can't just push your throttle to the floor and expect to win, you need to control it.

Those moment reveal how the fights are really on rails and you're meant to sit through all of it.
I feel like getting good gear in this game is at times pointless and it will do nothing to help you get through fights.

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Originally Posted by Makado

...you are flat out punished for big DPS. ... Why add inconvenience...? ...you can slow DPS or wait for things. But ...you want to smash things ...
What are your views?

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I think in mechanics of that encounters, it is also required DPS needs to learn when to hold and when not.

I'm happy there are also mechanics DPS must follow, because in most of the content, Tank needs to know what to mark and where to move, healer needs to know what to use and what not to use (to save for emergency or some point), while dps just need dodge and killing things. You know, when dps have just to not kill a thing makes Garuda so difficult :)

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Originally Posted by Seif

Those moment reveal how the fights are really on rails and you're meant to sit through all of it.
I feel like getting good gear in this game is at times pointless and it will do nothing to help you get through fights.

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Um, well, yea,... you know: +3 armor +3 magic resistance... *lol*
Not much of a difference... but well... maybe we are underestimating it, same as the +13 water resistance... *rofl*
Can agree 100%

Your method should be adjusted then. If you have enough dps in your group to push the phase after the first honey, then you more then likely have the dps to just stay on the boss purely the entire boss fight powering through the stack mechanic.

The only real issue I can say for certain is a real issue is forced enrages and t7 renaud voice timing, both of which should be adjusted on the dev end.