Questions for Fernehalwes- E3 2014 edition

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

We read a few of the Q and As at the end of our live podcast on Saturday. The interview will be posted on Tuesday along with a new episode of Lorecast covering the interview in its entirety!

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Thanks for the clarification!

Update: We realized that there totally would be time to get a Lorecast style Aetheryte Radio together before the interview editing was done, so Fusionx and I got that together and the podcast is going into editing itself while I take some sandpaper to the interview write-up. We know that there are people who love podcasts and people who will never, ever listen to other people talk about their hobbies for them - so it's nice to have both as options (though, admittedly, Fusionx and I digress into way more lore connections and speculation on the audio versions just by virtue of not having to be 100% cogent and professional speakers, lol). Both will go up at the same time as soon as editing is done.

In case there's space for another question:

Doing my atma, I encounter the 'Harrier' enemies that hang about Fogfens of Mor Dhona. Who are theses people? They don't wear any typical garlean gear, and they certainly don't look like undead people based on the mage.

Here you go guys!
Interview
Podcast

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...the thing is, there’s a lot that you guys don’t know yet when something from another Final Fantasy makes an appearance in Eorzea. I can’t tell you about it since it will be explained in the future, but there is a reason behind it. It’s not random, but why it’s happening is something you’re going to have to wait for.

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Hmmmmm..... so other dimensions and "planeswalking" might be a reality in this universe after all?

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I came up with a whole Sylph language that has never been in the game anywhere.

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This one is intrigued. Many walking ones would like to know moar!

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Originally Posted by Interview

GE: We can’t wait for all the Frozen references with the Shiva quests.
MCKF: Oh, my god (laughs). I’m already planning quest titles already so… (laughs)

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I think Square Enix wants to build a snowman

BTW is there a thread for discussion of the interview itself?

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

BTW is there a thread for discussion of the interview itself?

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This is pretty much it

*Bangs at the door*
Glyyyyyphs :<

Nothing about the Harriers.. Now I'll have to see if the Mor Dhona sightseeing log entries mention anything. T.T

You guys have just outdone yourselves. EXCELLENT interview, and I can't stop smiling over the tempered question - thank you SO MUCH for taking that one to him! Suddenly all the contradictory bits of dialogue make perfect sense! I definitely wasn't banging my head into a wall over fates and quests or anything, nope... Can't wait to see where things go from here, though. New languages are ALWAYS a good thing, hope we get to hear at least a little of it spoken. And veeeery intrigued by the idea of how the things from other games are coming in...

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Originally Posted by Malrend

Nothing about the Harriers.. Now I'll have to see if the Mor Dhona sightseeing log entries mention anything. T.T

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Every region has their own version of "bad" members of the five races - bandits, poachers, pirates - and they seem to have lowlife occupations related to the region's economy. To harry means "to cause trouble to" or "to lay waste to," so they're effectively just the lowlives of Mor Dhona. However, there are some hints. Mor Dhona doesn't have a nation state, so we can write that off. It's also a melting pot containing workers and scholars of all races, whereas all of the Harriers are Elezen. Likewise, the Elezen are all lancers, gladiators, and thaumaturges wearing old and tattered gear. It looks to me like the Harriers are Ishgardian deserters (maybe even heretics) reduced to banditry to survive.

So, Shiva having a new beast tribe is a big assumption, eh?

That just made the ideas of Shiva being summoned by either the Dragons, or by the Archbishop of Ishgard (as Halone), as a lot less of a house of cards.

/think

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Originally Posted by Catapult

So, Shiva having a new beast tribe is a big assumption, eh?

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You never know. Sometimes they stir the pot because speculation is fun, sometimes they stir the pot because they're giving us a hint, and sometimes they stir the pot because if they say anything that sounds anything remotely like "X CONFIRMED," marketing gets really mad. The comments Yoshida made at PAX 2013 and the conveniently timed appearance of the "chubby owl" beast tribe on XIVMODELS seems not-coincidental, but hey, until then I would have bet money on the Gigas. Door's wide open for Ishgard and Dragons.

Oh, and the bit about Nael's face? That was clearly the sound of "'nice try' with wings flapping off into the distance".

What I do want to do though, is to see if Gaius refers to Nael as a specific gender at any point in the v1.x text. Or perhaps even Cid. There may be some more hints in that.


Early edit:

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Originally Posted by Cid, Two Vans are better than one.

Were it not for the involvement of van Darnus, I'd laugh at the bastards and be done with it. But the men of his line have long been the keepers of Allagan knowledge. Could that godless fiend have made some new discovery?
I pray not. The man is a monster. He kills enemy and ally alike - any who might oppose him. To look upon the son, you'd not imagine his father the hero he was.
After his death, all his loyal advisors found themselves less a head upon van Darnus's command. Hells, if the whisperings at court are to be believed, he even had a hand in his father's demise.

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Cid certainly thought of Nael as a "him", though Cid may not have been the most privvy of persons.

2nd edit:
In Shadow of the Raven, the elementals offered this cryptic prophecy:

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Originally Posted by Twin Adder Officer, Shadow of the Raven

When white wings hie from distant east, a maid of steel to bear, Shall darkling sky shed tears of fire, and veiled ones know despair.
We are quite certain that the white wings bearing a maid of steel refer to the one men call the White Raven - Nael van Darnus, Legatus of the VIIth Imperial Legion.

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You'd think the elementals would know...

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Oh, and the bit about Nael's face? That was clearly the sound of "'nice try' with wings flapping off into the distance".

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

What I do want to do though, is to see if Gaius refers to Nael as a specific gender at any point

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Though he was never given a voice actor, everyone Nael spoke to still referred to him in the masculine; likewise, he was categorized as a male elezen and shared their emote pool. This does extend to Gaius, which usually I'd say is pretty conclusive. Darnus and Gaius spoke all the time, and you'd think Gaius would know a little about his fellow Legati.

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Originally Posted by Gaius van Baelsar (Don't Hate the Messenger)

I see proof of this in van Darnus. His manner is...altered. He is anxious. Uneasy. He deceives His Radiance.

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I was really into the theory that Darnus killed Bradamante because he, sure of Almighty Dalamud's will, cut her down for trying to stop him - and that as he died and Bahamut absorbed his aether, his last thought was of her, leading to the Turn 9 manifestation of her in his armor. However, all the interview seems to conclude is:

"That is not Bradamante. She has her own place in the story and this is not it. Keep guessing, keep trying, but leave Bradamante out of it."

That quote from Shadow of the Raven, though... Hm.

I always assumed that referred to Bradamante, the weapon... White Wings (the white raven) bearing the maid (Bradamante) of steel (a gunhalberd).

Still... open doors and whatnot...

In French and German, the elementals use the masculine for the bird and the feminine for the companion.

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Un néfaste oiseau d'argent venu du levant, une comparse cuirassée accompagnera.
Mais tandis que du ciel mille flèches embrasées s'abattront, les larmes de la belle ses gardes engloutiront.

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Weißer Vogel aus dem Osten, stählern blau der Jungfrau Blick.
Flammenregen bricht hernieder, Tränen gottverlass'ner Geister lassen Klagende zurück.

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When Kan-E then connects this to Darnus, she still uses the masculine.

I hesitate to even guess the implications anymore, lol.

We mustn't preclude the possibility that Nael was pulling a Jeanne D'Arc. If Nael was indeed female all along, there are some similarities in Nael's story and this Catholic Saint's legend.

On a different matter, I feel mischievously obliged to pull out this thread on those staves from April 2013:

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Yeah, but those staves have multiple versions - why pick one with Oschon or Llymlaen's symbol?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

No idea! I was just trying to prevent the thread from being derailed by misinterpreting beastmen flags and weapon DATs. I have absolutely no idea why the Ixal would have what are seemingly Sharlayan staffs marked with what are undoubtably symbols of the Twelve. Even if the Ixal didn't know, you'd think Garuda would be pissed.

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At the time, we were inconclusive about how the Ixal got their hands on these things, though they seemed moderately common due to their use in the Hyrstmill hamlet raids.



Now, here is something else on the subject:
Allagan Runestone - Menphina

It is a symbol of the Twelve, named as being of Allagan origin and the Allagans were proficient summoners and primal-controllers. Something tells me that these marks have more to do with summoning rites than they do with full blown deities.

If the Little Ala Mhigan Youth had succeeded in summoning Rhalgr, would Ramuh have popped out?
If the Archbishop of Ishgard tried to summon Halone, would Shiva materialise? (yeah, I'm still going there...)

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Originally Posted by Catapult

At the time, we were inconclusive about how the Ixal got their hands on these things, though they seemed moderately common due to their use in the Hyrstmill hamlet raids.

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This one is more or less just me stirring the pot. The Ixal still carry those things. You can go down to Natalan right now and see Fogcallers carrying them. It's just not Oschon's symbol on those ones. It's Llylmaen's. The chaos never ends, man! Why the Ixal have these is still a mystery. Moreover, what made Lousioix's special enough to be a Key is also a mystery. These staffs can't all be keys, could they? Otherwise why would Travanchet have gone so far out of his way to get the horn? And why sink the horn to the bottom of the sea if things just like it are all over the place? If the staff design was common in Eorzea to channel elements associated with those deities, it makes sense both for Louisoix to have one and for the Ixal to have stolen them to use against us (though why Garuda allows that sacrilege near her is still a mystery to me). Louisoix could have just used his own knowledge to make his into a Key.

There's always going to be a connection to find as long as we're digging for connections; most of them are coincidental. There's a constellation of red stars in the Eorzean sky that's pretty similar to the pattern of glyphs on the ground when Ifrit was summoned in Version 1.0. Mindblowing connection or not even good enough to break out the darksteelfoil hats? This is why I focus on the past more than the present and future these days, lol.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

If the Archbishop of Ishgard tried to summon Halone, would Shiva materialise? (yeah, I'm still going there...)

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I've given up speculating about Shiva at least until 2.3 gives us our first hints. I do still find it intriguing that the Allag knew of the "symbols of the Twelve" though. Who knows if they even meant the same things to them that they do to us. The one you use for example, Menphina, clearly shows the lesser moon on the runestone. Obviously the Allag knew what that was, eh? I assume they didn't add it in there to be the loyal hound of the moon goddess.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The one you use for example, Menphina, clearly shows the lesser moon on the runestone. Obviously the Allag knew what that was, eh? I assume they didn't add it in there to be the loyal hound of the moon goddess.

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Is it really the twin moons, or is that just our 6AE interpretation? Could it in fact represent our planet and its moon (knowledge of the world being round not being common amongst Eorzeans)?

As for Louisoix's staff, it may indeed be that what makes his staff special is explicitly this happening:
http://youtu.be/W9Rpetik57w?t=18s
Which would make the Mark of Thaliak a red herring.

Another thought.

They say that the great sea serpent from which the oceans came was bound to Swallowtail Roam by Llymlaen, yes?
But, wasn't it the Allagans who were good at binding dragons, primals and that sort of ilk?

It's another piece of anecdotal evidence to put on the pile of "The Twelve are more than what they seem".

Super fun theory to think about that a friend shared with me.

.. yes it goes back to Shiva and Ishgard lol.

What if.. they -had- succeeded in summoning Shiva at Ishgard. Because of that, winter came (snow) and Shiva further fortified Ishgard (still not letting anyone in) and what if she.... tempered/froze everyone in ishgard? Or at least the archbishop?.. what if she is the archbishop? bumbumbummmmm.

I got a feeling that Ramuh and his part is going to open our eyes a bit in regards to what we believe a Primal is.

Edit: new images for 2.3 story are up.. just going to place this one here without saying anything... because come on. We're all thinking it.
http://gamerescape.com/wp-content/bl...2-3/sto_03.jpg

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Originally Posted by Catapult

They say that the great sea serpent from which the oceans came was bound to Swallowtail Roam by Llymlaen, yes?
But, wasn't it the Allagans who were good at binding dragons, primals and that sort of ilk?

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This thought occurred to me as well; though I wasn't able to see any neurolink-like devices on the serpent OR Midgardsormr, for that matter.
I still think it's possibly they were enslaved guard dogs dragons, but hey, who knows.
It may also have been from the Fourth or Fifth Eras, considering the Rhotano Bloodcant tablet doesn't look all that Allag.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Just going to place this one here without saying anything... because come on. We're all thinking it.

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Oh, jeez. <raises hands like scales> Big hint... cruel red herring... big hint... cruel red herring....

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Oh, jeez. <raises hands like scales> Big hint... cruel red herring... big hint... cruel red herring....

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Ughh! What a horrible tease this is... Give me the story now!!

Touching a bit back on your conversation about Neal's identity, in 1.0 Neal used exclusively male Elezen emotes and both his standing and battle posture were also male Elezen. Would you have any retort to that? I'm still on the boat that Neal was a he but I'd love to be wrong.

How about this for a bit more of an idea on what he was getting at using a different example. In the anime and visual novel, Fate Stay Night, one of the main characters, "King Arthur" was seen as a male by everyone around him and was even brought up to be a male, despite being female, even as far as history is concerned, King Arthur is a man. Being able to hide "his" body behind armor, it was easy for most people to mistake her for being a very young boy. Since Nael has always been behind a mask and covered in armor of sorts, there's not concrete evidence to support Nael being male or female, even going by the emotes and idle stance. I'm not quite sure of the story behind Jeanne d'Arc as its been over 10 years since I learned about her story (not like my school taught us much about history to begin with and half of it was false.)

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

SWhat if.. they -had- succeeded in summoning Shiva at Ishgard. Because of that, winter came (snow) and Shiva further fortified Ishgard (still not letting anyone in) and what if she.... tempered/froze everyone in ishgard? Or at least the archbishop?.. what if she is the archbishop? bumbumbummmmm.

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I hadn't gone as far as to consider that Shiva had explicitly taken over Ishgard, even if she had "frozen" most of the city's upper echelons of power once summoned as Halone. But now that you mention it, she does stylize herself as royalty...

And yeah, that picture is so temptingly Shiva. XD

Well, considering the Primals have long been known to be tools of the Ascians (remember, it was the Ascians who taught the beast tribes to how to summon originally, and even Lahabrea mentioned that the Primals are part of their big scheme to rebirth Zodiark, to create massive amounts of chaos and destruction), and given the fact that the Ascians take mortal bodies as hosts, whose to say that elezen isn't an Ascian's host body? Maybe what we're looking at the first official shot of an Ascian in their 'Paragon' form which teaches the currently unknown beast tribe how to summon Shiva, and hence takes a form similar, but not exactly, like the Primal being taught?

Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws desperately trying to hold off myself from succumbing to the 'Go Mad From the Revelation' trope by thinking of the other alternative.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

What if.. they -had- succeeded in summoning Shiva at Ishgard...

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Shiva is the Holy See. It kinda makes sense, as they seems to be fundamentalists and love to kill heretics. But if that's the case then they'd be the only tempered group to aid the heroes (The Sylphs of Little Solace don't count as they are obviously not tempered, same goes for the Brotherhood of Ash and their counterparts).

There are holes, such as Isgard's isolationism (would has been more beneficial to kidnap potential recruits, even the tempered sylphs do it (See the Thundershock FATE)) As well as their neutrality (disdain aside they don't seem to attack adventurers and sellswords, but maybe that just the fact that all the players are technically one entity as for as the lore's concerned. Even then the fact that they were even willing to help find the Enterprise at all despite the act that the PC slayed 2 primals implies alot about their stance on the Primals v. Eorzea "war")

That doesn't quite fit though - the Archbishop that rules Ishgard's theocratic state was mentioned in the past as being male not female, and besides, they're fanatical in their devotion towards Halone the Fury, not Shiva. Really, the only similarity I can see between Halone and Shiva is that Halone was stated as being, amongst other things, the 'goddess of glaciers'. That's not quite the same as saying 'she's the goddess of winter/ice' like Shiva specifically is, but it's the only real link between the two (Halone was also stated as being the goddess of war as well for that matter, hence Ishgard's somewhat militaristic society.).

Given the fact in the past it was mentioned Shiva was the goddess of a 'large' beast tribe to the north, this makes the the idea that Isghard is summoning Shiva even more unlikely. But then I guess we'll see.

The recent interview with Ferne seems to go back on the "beast tribe" notion of summoning Shiva (though this could be all a clever voidsent ruse to make us speculate and contrive more ludicrous theories). Another important similarity between Shiva and Halone is that more specifically that "goddess of glaciers," Halone is one of the two goddesses of Ice in the Twelve pantheon. (The other being Menphina)

Interestingly Rhalgr's description is also pretty close to Ramuh's. God of thunder, mage wielding a bronzen staff (and oddly enough the father of Halone).

Speaking of which Halone and Nophica are bitter rivals, you'd expect Gridania and Ishgardians to be more at odds with each other than they are!

Honestly if it's not gonna be a brand new/unexpected beast tribe I could see some Ishgardians going like AWH YEAH WE GONNA SUMMON HALONE TO FIGHT THE DRAGONS-- oh woops it's Shiva.


And completely unrelated to Shiva speculation and very minor T9 spoilers but related to Moose's last post: the Ghosts of Meracydia (wyvern adds) in the fight have an ability called "Neurolink Burst" which goes off when they die. However, there is no visible neurolink attached to them. So while Twintania's neurolink is super obvious, it's possible not all neurolinks are so blatant.

The idea that Shiva = Halone ?= that elezen is quite interesting, but while that:

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Interestingly Rhalgr's description is also pretty close to Ramuh's. God of thunder, mage wielding a bronzen staff (and oddly enough the father of Halone).

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is also true, I'm no sure it works for the rest of the primals or the Twelve...

PRIMAL | Twelve of same element and 'gender' (from the FF wiki)
IFRIT | Naldthal "overseer of transactions and the underworld and god of commerce ... depicted as a discerning merchant holding a balance, and his symbol is the cowry"
TITAN | Althyk, "the surveyor of change and god of space and time ... depicted as an austere emperor wielding a mythril greataxe. His symbol is the hourglass."
GARUDA | Llymlaen, "watcher of the seas and goddess of navigation... depicted as a strong fisherwoman holding a long-bladed harpoon, and her symbol is the wave"
LEVIATHAN | Thaliak, "ruler of rivers and wisdom and god of knowledge ... depicted as a reserved scholar holding an ashen staff, and his symbol is the scroll"

... which don't fit well IMO, so it seems to me like coincidence. And there are twice as many Twelve as there are primals. And three of the Twelve I listed are patron deities of the city states (Uldah, Limsa, and Sharlayan). That said, if there is a connection... there could be blending of sources involved (Halone and Menphina are both Ice Godesses after all, and likewise for Rhalgr and Byregot both being Thunder Gods; but gods and primals don't necessarily have a gender). Sorry to pick it apart. I thought it was interesting and that you might be onto something.

It definitely falls apart once you start looking at more than those two, yeah.

Though using your comparison of Primals to patron city-state deities you should be using Nophica instead of Althyk for Earth. (Though that just makes it worse!)

EDIT: Err, I misread your post there in a haste to get back to Eorzea before the weather change...nvm about the Nophica instead of Althyk

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

Edit: new images for 2.3 story are up.. just going to place this one here without saying anything... because come on. We're all thinking it.

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Nah. What if that's just a new look for a mature Alisaie, who's come back from the Future to save us all? :)