Rude people in dungeons.

Just to reassure that their are people who aren't poltroons doing these; I was tanking the Giant-killing dungeon earlier, and I faceplanted more than a few times due to not being able to get out of the way of AoEs in time (On the pc, there's an annoying 'face your target' lock thing that messes up my running direction a lot, despite me trying to face where my cam is pointing), and the others in the group were a. patient, and b. not a "NOOB!' out of anyone. I got some good advice again about not wasting Flash on single mobs.

So there are some good people around :D

I must say that, up untill now, my experience has been great.
I've just resubbed one month ago and levelled a paladin to lvl 50. Every dungeon was new to me but i always found very helpfull people that took their time to explain tactics and mechanics. I just happened to screw up a few times but nobody yelled at me.
Overall my experience with the community has been great :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ecosmith

Just to reassure that their are people who aren't poltroons doing these; I was tanking the Giant-killing dungeon earlier, and I faceplanted more than a few times due to not being able to get out of the way of AoEs in time (On the pc, there's an annoying 'face your target' lock thing that messes up my running direction a lot, despite me trying to face where my cam is pointing)

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It's on console as well, it's really disorientating when accidentally push in L3 and it'd lock on >~<
There's an option to turn it off under character configuration> control settings> target > uncheck the first box "automatically lock on target" ^_^

Oh, fantastic! Thanks, this will inprove my experoence no end :)

I spoke to soon lol. There's facing in FF14. :(

Bullying should not be tolerated by anyone, if the others in a group do not speak out against it...shame on them! There are a few things that result from being a warrior against bullies...you get raged at and lose the commendation you may have gotten by going with the flow. (OH NO!) The bully hurls another insult, rage quits....the bully aggros mobs, then rage quits. The bully shuts up and continues the dungeon without further incident. Or continues to be a jerk and the decent people kick them.
We must be the change we want to see, speak up, speak out and spread the goodwill...I promise the results of this will be a less toxic community and pride that you did the right thing.

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Originally Posted by Roarey

Bullying should not be tolerated by anyone, if the others in a group do not speak out against it...shame on them! There are a few things that result from being a warrior against bullies...you get raged at and lose the commendation you may have gotten by going with the flow. (OH NO!) The bully hurls another insult, rage quits....the bully aggros mobs, then rage quits. The bully shuts up and continues the dungeon without further incident. Or continues to be a jerk and the decent people kick them.
We must be the change we want to see, speak up, speak out and spread the goodwill...I promise the results of this will be a less toxic community and pride that you did the right thing.

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Thanks Roarey very well said:)

Most dungeons I've done via the duty finder have had bullies in. It is frustrating that people would rather be rude rather than help and give advice. Honestly I think everyone needs a go at all the different roles, just to see how difficult they can all be; maybe then they'll be less inclined to throw harsh comments around so easily. It does put me off doing dungeons at all though :(

I wish it was easier to report people, because I would happily do so. I'm very sensitive, as many players are. Sensitive or not though, bullying is never okay. I'm now a healer, and from now on if people are rude I'm not going to cure them, as someone else suggested. Good plan!

& On that note, if anyone is new to any dungeons that I've done (or anything), please let me know as I'll happily walk you through it and not be rude at all, and try to be helpful as possible.

I'm currently at the point of doing Haukke Manor and every time I want to run it I just decide to go do something else. I've had nothing but horrible experiences with every Duty Finder team. I may not be the greatest tank but I'd say I'm decent and the amount of hate I've had spewed at me or at other players is just ridiculous. I really wish that players weren't forced to into teaming for the sake of story progression.

I've been lucky so far, only been doing dungeons as they crop up during the story, and not really had any tough ones yet (Did my 4th one tonight). The groups I've played with have all been cool, when I screw up they offer helpful advice, even if it's something I should probably know.

For instance I was tanking Halatali tonight, and was having trouble holding some of the aggro off the DPS, but rather than the dressing-down I'd expect if I was still playing WoW (been clean for years now!) they actually helped me out. I dunno if it's just because I've only done the bare minimum of runs and been lucky, but the community genuinely seems pretty good, and the more experienced players are happy to help out noobfolk like myself.

I haven't got myself a keyboard yet so I'm not really able to explain myself to the group when I'm struggling, so I couldn't argue if I tried! Not that I would. We play these games to get away from the bullies in life, stick them all on the same server I say!

If im new to any dungeon i watch the video to get a idea of the bosses then i announce to the group im new. Generally they are very nice and willing to work/help out.

On a side note though i have come across some..rather rude people not because i was new but thier lack of willing to work as a team. I will not name shame but some remarks were cussing, others were "we don't do this for team play" after i stated running ahead of the tank was smart in my sarcastic tone which was then met by "Idc what you think"(that was from a guildhest just today on whm) which i couldn't understand myself. People like this tend to rot the play of other people for the fear of running into their type again.

Back to topic a bad bunch can ruin a community but only because they tend to stick out more then the mass of helpful ones out there. Don't give up for every bad apple there's 10 good ones!

Oh man, I'm about to quit doing them all together. I've had one where if I don't know the level, I immediately put it out there since I'm the tank. I've had it to where a healer stopped healing me because he didn't like the way I was tanking... As well as talked a bunch of stuff that made sense if you're 15 years old. Then another today where I died from some massive hit, I put LOL cause I don't take it that seriously. The kid wrote, omg! Are you trolling? I told you how to not die! I said I'm fighting the monsters, I'm too busy to sit there and read during that. Then they go on. I really wanna just mute everyone... I wish there was an option to choose your age level and dungeon with those players instead of these kids. And it's very obvious they are kids from what they say and how they behave. It's really turned me off to dungeons.

Regardless of how new you are to the game, nobody has the right to harass and berate you.
Report the people who do so with great prejudice. Report them several times over if that is what it takes.
Most of all, don't let them get to you. Stand up for yourself and stand up for others.
There are some jerk players out there but in no way are they the majority.
Unfortunately, they are the loudest.

Still, I'm sorry that this happened to you OP.
Shame on the rest of your party for not saying anything to the tank.

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

Regardless of how new you are to the game, nobody has the right to harass and berate you.
Report the people who do so with great prejudice. Report them several times over if that is what it takes.
Most of all, don't let them get to you. Stand up for yourself and stand up for others.
There are some jerk players out there but in no way are they the majority.
Unfortunately, they are the loudest.

Still, I'm sorry that this happened to you OP.
Shame on the rest of your party for not saying anything to the tank.

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Thanks Anapingofness:)

Thankfully it has been a lot better lately! I guess it's just a matter of who you get in the duty finder.

Last night I tried Haukke Manor again (fifth time) and it was just insanely brutal, instead of the team waiting for me to get aggro they rushed ahead of me and basically wiped themselves. I tried to do what I could to get aggro but to no avail. Apparently them rushing ahead of me was completely my fault.

So we decide to try again...bear in mind I'm kind of upset at this point. So I tell the team to wait while I pull a mob to avoid having two roaming Maid Servants add and wipe us. Everything was going okay until a DPS decides to run with me to pull the next mob. I stop before I hit the group and he keeps running. He gets aggro and lasts about a minute before he dies. Again its my fault apparently.

So I gave them a third chance and yes I do know the definition of insanity. Anyways I manage to pull a group to avoid the two roaming Maids but the DPS decides to pull them himself. We wipe and its my fault yet again. So I decide to log the character out and wipe him from the world it is on and decided to change the server I was on.

Well I doubt it'll get better elsewhere. I know we aren't perfect, those of us that are complaining, but it is a shame that we try to do good and our experience gets ruined by immature people. How the poster above me gave them 3 chances, I don't do that anymore... I leave if I get annoyed or anything. My emotions aren't worth it to get upset over a game.

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Originally Posted by Kuolema

So I gave them a third chance and yes I do know the definition of insanity. Anyways I manage to pull a group to avoid the two roaming Maids but the DPS decides to pull them himself. We wipe and its my fault yet again. So I decide to log the character out and wipe him from the world it is on and decided to change the server I was on.

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I admire your fortitude. Having a 50 PLD and 50 BRD, I know both ends of the roulette wheel. I can only hope, and assume, that the people attempting to speed run through the mobs and massive pull were geared 50s doing roulette. If so, and I were tanking that dungeon as part of my own roulette and with the limited means of aggro control at that level, I'd have left after the first warning. Reason being is that those dps know better -- and I know they know better, or at least I hope that people with some coil gear and atma/zeniths know at least some small measure of aggro control.

People attempting to treat low lvl roulette as if it is a Brayflox speed run are massively annoying...for that matter are any DF people expecting a BFHM to be a speed run...but that's a vent for another day.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I admire your fortitude. Having a 50 PLD and 50 BRD, I know both ends of the roulette wheel. I can only hope, and assume, that the people attempting to speed run through the mobs and massive pull were geared 50s doing roulette. If so, and I were tanking that dungeon as part of my own roulette and with the limited means of aggro control at that level, I'd have left after the first warning. Reason being is that those dps know better -- and I know they know better, or at least I hope that people with some coil gear and atma/zeniths know at least some small measure of aggro control.

People attempting to treat low lvl roulette as if it is a Brayflox speed run are massively annoying...for that matter are any DF people expecting a BFHM to be a speed run...but that's a vent for another day.

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I guess it was my fault for not being a level synched level 50. I was just a lowly level 1 Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Kuolema

I guess it was my fault for not being a level synched level 50. I was just a lowly level 1 Paladin.

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What I meant is, it doesn't matter if you're a lvl synched 50 or not - dps should know how to control their own aggro if THEY are synched down -- I was giving an example of how I'd have handled it being synched down myself, but if I were a new tank to the instance, I'd have done the exact same. Warn once and then leave.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

What I meant is, it doesn't matter if you're a lvl synched 50 or not - dps should know how to control their own aggro if THEY are synched down -- I was giving an example of how I'd have handled it being synched down myself, but if I were a new tank to the instance, I'd have done the exact same. Warn once and then leave.

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I know what you meant and didn't mean to insinuate anything. This game just doesn't seem friendly to new players unfortunately. I know that the level 50's do the instances for a higher reward but some of them just need to chill out.

I'm new to FFXIV (and MMOs in general!) but have been having a lot of fun over the last few weeks exploring Eorzea, trying various jobs/activities and generally just getting to grips with the mechanics of the game.

I've not had a huge amount of direct contact with other players yet. The initial dungeons via the duty finder were chaotic but fun.

I then hit the Bowl of Embers mission with the Ifrit fight. Not a good experience. After over a half hour wait on the duty finder I finally launched into it. To say I was unprepared was an understatement. Nothing so far in the game had prepared me for an instant death move from the boss. The first round I didn't even realise what caused it. Since I was lancing Ifrit from behind I didn't even see the nail spawn behind me.

Suffice to say, I recieved a torrent of abuse from my experienced teammates. Once I finally spotted the nail the next time I couldn't do enough damage to destroy it in time. Cue another torrent of abuse and a kick vote.

This left me very depressed on two fronts. First the negative attitude from the experienced players. It stated at the beginning of the run that a member of the party was doing this for the first time. Second, I'm a little dissapointed in a mission design that pretty much expects you to have to research the fight before you attempt it.

Thankfully, after doing some research, I attempted it again the following day. This time the groups Tank was new but the Healer was patient in explaining the fights mechanics to us and was supportive while we messed up a couple of times.

I'm left a little ambiguous about going forward though. There's a lot to love about this game but I'm concerned if this is the dungeon design going forward. If the difficulty is through instant death mechanics because of ignorance I'm not sure I want to perservere with that. Failing due to bad teamwork or tactics is one thing but cheap instant deaths like that suck...

There are some bosses with insta-wipe moves but it is mainly an issue with the primals. The others are in Crystal Tower and some of the post-50 dungeons.
Ifrit and Garuda seem to cause the most issues. Ifrit because new players don't know about the nail/s and Garuda because it isn't obvious that the columns need to be preserved. Titan's is kind of hard to miss but some people get confused by the jails.
I think the fights aren't designed that you need to research them first, but they are designed that you may wipe several times figuring them out.
There is a continuous ongoing argument over if people should watch / feel forced to watch videos before going into dungeons. I feel that for the pre-50 dungeons it isn't necessary and if you get anyone new then someone should explain the mechanics. If they didn't explain that the nail needs to be destroyed, then that is on them. The other dps should have been helping and sometimes the healer or tank if needed.

Another bad time in a dungeon. Doing howling eye, as the tank of course, I ask what the trick is, someone just says hide behind a rock and kill the adds... I said but I'm the tank, they respond with "so?". How freaking rude? Then luckily someone responded with what I should do, during the first attack the healer doesn't heal me so I have to run in circles back to the group jumping around til someone heals me. Of course we all died a short time later. I said before we start, healer can u make sure and heal me? Someone says, he died... I said this is well before he died he stopped healing me. He responds with no. I said can we boot this guy, he doesn't want to heal me for some reason, no one says anything, I write this is why I am sick of dungeons, a second later I get booted! Little brats in this damn game. I'm so over this crap. Waste of my time.

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Originally Posted by Weaselfierce72

snip

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I'm sorry you had such an experience.
As I mentioned before, the negative players *are* the minority.
They are a *very* vocal minority, but they are the minority.

That being said, you don't *have* to do research for things like Bowl of Embers story mode.
The mechanics are simple enough that if your group weren't full of jerks, you would have gotten very it quickly even if nobody took the five seconds to type out "Mind the Infernal Nail when it spawns. It needs to die ASAP"
For other parts of the game, namely endgame, doing some research is equally beneficial for you and your group simply because the fights get fairly intense. At that point, even researching may not save you from a wipe but it will give you a rough idea of what to expect.

Although the instant death move caused by Inferno is seen by some as cheap, yourself included, it is entirely avoidable if the group works together.
Sadly, you should probably prepare yourself for more of such moves. Each Primal has their own instant death move if it isn't mitigated by destroying certain items. However, as Sagittarian had said this is something you will encounter mainly in post lvl50 content.

I hope you reported the players that were abusive to you. They are in the wrong and they deserve to be punished.
It doesn't matter if it is your first time in an instance or your 100th time- nobody has the right to be verbally abusive or harass others, for *any* reason.

Lastly, in my experience the people who are the doing abusing/harassing of others are usually pretty terrible players. They are the ones that will usually get nailed by some mechanic in the fight and blame everyone else except themselves.

I'm so glad to find people who also run into these situations
Most of the time I used to find helpful nice people. I had a lot of great experiences through duty finder thanks to that.
Unfortunatelly after hitting 50 those people seen to get rarer and rarer
My last trouble was last night on copperbell mines (HARD).
I'll just not use DF for 50 dungeons anymore, and wait till my FC fellows can run it with me.

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Originally Posted by Weaselfierce72

This left me very depressed on two fronts. First the negative attitude from the experienced players. It stated at the beginning of the run that a member of the party was doing this for the first time. Second, I'm a little dissapointed in a mission design that pretty much expects you to have to research the fight before you attempt it.

Thankfully, after doing some research, I attempted it again the following day. This time the groups Tank was new but the Healer was patient in explaining the fights mechanics to us and was supportive while we messed up a couple of times.

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One one in party chat could have explained it.
But, if you had mentioned you did t know the fight at the start it would have avoided it too. A lot of people research so seeing "new player" doesn't mean doesn't know the fight.

Regardless of what people may tell you on the forums, going into dungeons blind using DF is just asking for drama.

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Originally Posted by Gnova

But, if you had mentioned you did t know the fight at the start it would have avoided it too. A lot of people research so seeing "new player" doesn't mean doesn't know the fight.

Regardless of what people may tell you on the forums, going into dungeons blind using DF is just asking for drama.

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Thing is, in this particular case at any rate, you start in single player story mission. The mission then dumps you in a dungeon and tells you to use the duty finder for the fight. Why on earth would anyone in the game at this point think, "Oh, hang on, I better whip out youtube!"?

Despite the numerous cut scenes during this mission too, I still don't understand the logic or connection between an object popping out of the ground and getting nuked. Yeah, sure, that's how it is and going forward knowing that I might be more prepared or aware of similar mechanics in future, but it still seems very tenuous game logic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weaselfierce72

Thing is, in this particular case at any rate, you start in single player story mission. The mission then dumps you in a dungeon and tells you to use the duty finder for the fight. Why on earth would anyone in the game at this point think, "Oh, hang on, I better whip out youtube!"?

Despite the numerous cut scenes during this mission too, I still don't understand the logic or connection between an object popping out of the ground and getting nuked. Yeah, sure, that's how it is and going forward knowing that I might be more prepared or aware of similar mechanics in future, but it still seems very tenuous game logic.

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Can I ask an honest question? Is this your first mmo?
edit*
Ok just read above and realized you said you were new to mmo's. So here is somethings I've learned by playing many that they all adhere to.

Every mmo I've played has had transitions from solo play to dungeons. Every one has had dungeons that get more and more complicated past the first couple as they introduce the mechanics that are present in them and the players get more abilities to deal with these challenges. Everyone has had insta kill (or close) mechanics where if the group didn't avoid something or didn't kill something fast enough the party would wipe. This is a major part of mmo's and very very few do anything else. If you can't count on a guild member in these games to explain new fights to you, you will always be better off watching a video so that you have a rough idea of what is going to happen. People make these video's as they learn the fights upon their release for the express purpose of helping new players. You may say that the damage shouldn't be so harsh so that you have to watch a video or wipe. Well to that I say that without those mechanics the game would become stale and boring very quickly as there would be no challenge. I've screwed up in brain dead moments, I've been yelled at by elitists, I've been irritated with others when having a bad day already and others did something brain dead, I'm human. I do know however that I like to win, which in this case means beating bosses, this means I use all the resources at hand, which includes the videos.

First of all !! WELCOME <3

Dont worry , alot of good ppl here specially Final Fantasy community , they are far more than bad ppl ;p

everywhere gets bad and good , just go kick ass dont worry much <3

I learnt a long time ago in this game not to take the opinions of other people to heart too much. After starting a new character on Zodiark and finally getting to do Wanderer's Palace my friend and I got called 'Noobs' for our 'crappy dps' by a tank who then rage quit lol (It wasn't crappy - we kicked the bosses asses with the new tank)

On games like this you will always get the people who consider themselves 'professional players' who will occasionally treat newer people like this just because you are 'under geared' and inexperienced. I actually think some people forget what its like to be new to a game like this where many people are already much further along. Luckily though there are plenty of wonderful people on this game too who will help you :)

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Originally Posted by Sammix87

After starting a new character on Zodiark and finally getting to do Wanderer's Palace my friend and I got called 'Noobs' for our 'crappy dps' by a tank who then rage quit lol (It wasn't crappy - we kicked the bosses asses with the new tank)

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No one should ever be called noons, etc, but I have run zones with crappy dps and even though we finish the dungeon it is a painful experience.
Fights that take twice as long due to lackluster dps are not a lot of fun for the healer and tank.
There is a difference between being a overgeared snyced DPS, well played appropriately geared dps, and poorly played dps.

Even though it needs to be done delicately sometimes people do need to be told that they need to improve.

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Originally Posted by Gnova

No one should ever be called noons, etc, but I have run zones with crappy dps and even though we finish the dungeon it is a painful experience.
Fights that take twice as long due to lackluster dps are not a lot of fun for the healer and tank.
There is a difference between being a overgeared snyced DPS, well played appropriately geared dps, and poorly played dps.

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I just find it silly. If you're an elitist (not you, just in general) who want super duper fast runs with uber geared people, make your own premade to join the dungeon and your problem will be solved. You can't expect a super party in a RANDOM dungeon/trial/whatever matcher. You just either live with it or ragequit and get a 30 min penalty. Most of people doing these duty finder content are either to level up or progress through gear, you can't demand them to be endgame geared to have uber dps.

When I played tank on Phoenix I had to party with people with 'crap' DPS but I never told them they were noobs nor did I quit the dungeon half way through. My DPS in that dungeon run wasn't anywhere near 'crappy' nor was it a painful experience as we took each boss very easily. My actual point was that just because someone isn't in full myth gear or whatever doesn't mean people have the right to be rude and obnoxious. Especially when it was the 'crappy dpsers' who survived the first boss (and killed it I might add) and the tank who died first....

I do understand the difference between that and yes some people do indeed need to be told sometimes but I think that would work best if people actually didn't go straight for the word noob and actually offered suggestions instead of unconstructive criticism.

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Originally Posted by Sammix87

I do understand the difference between that and yes some people do indeed need to be told sometimes but I think that would work best if people actually didn't go straight for the word noob and actually offered suggestions instead of unconstructive criticism.

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Most rational people think the same, if you wanna improve your own gameplay. But there's a difference in being told on a constructive way to improve, than just throw some insults right away for not meeting your own preferences on the dungeon, which is what seemed to happen. There's literally nothing you can do to meet that player's demand if you don't have the gear for it, but these kind of players don't have consideration and expect everyone to be at their level (at least gear-wise) on everything and insulting if not.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

I just find it silly. If you're an elitist (not you, just in general) who want super duper fast runs with uber geared people, make your own premade to join the dungeon and your problem will be solved. You can't expect a super party in a RANDOM dungeon/trial/whatever matcher. You just either live with it or ragequit and get a 30 min penalty. Most of people doing these duty finder content are either to level up or progress through gear, you can't demand them to be endgame geared to have uber dps.

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I agree that we shouldn't expect perfection.
But if no one tells people they aren't pulling their weight how do they know to improve.
It needs to be done respectfully though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sammix87

My actual point was that just because someone isn't in full myth gear or whatever doesn't mean people have the right to be rude and obnoxious. Especially when it was the 'crappy dpsers' who survived the first boss (and killed it I might add) and the tank who died first....

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"Crappy DPS" comments usually have more to do with skill level than gear.

Example:
When I am tanking and cycling through mobs to spread hate it really pisses me off if I know we have a summoner and they haven't spread their dots across the group.of mobs. That is crappy DPS, I don't care if they have the best gear around.
If no one says anything to them they may not know that it is expected of them.

I've been in groups with synced dps and we bored mobs to death. I've then gone into the same zone with non synced DPS and mobs melted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gnova

Example:
When I am tanking and cycling through mobs to spread hate it really pisses me off if I know we have a summoner and they haven't spread their dots across the group.of mobs. That is crappy DPS, I don't care if they have the best gear around.
If no one says anything to them they may not know that it is expected of them.

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That could just be a matter of being unfamiliar with you. If the tank is, in fact, cycling through mobs and doing a good job of holding hate on all of them, then yes, a summoner does a lot more damage by putting DoTs up on all of them. On the other hand, with an inexperienced or under-geared tank who can only effectively hold aggro on one mob at a time, that high-DPS pattern will draw too much hate. That summoner may know perfectly well that DoTing all the mobs is the most effective DPS-wise, but if they've gotten stuck with bad tanks on too many previous runs, they could make a deliberate decision to take a more conservative approach and prioritize avoiding aggro.

Ideally, the summoner and tank should discuss strategy prior to the run and decide on the summoner's strategy based on the tank's experience, level, and gear. But I've hardly ever seen that happen in a DF run. It's an example of why static groups perform better than random ones, even with equally experienced and skilled players. Understanding your teammates' strategies can be at least as important as having a good strategy of your own.

It can be really frustrating if on one run a DPS is bitched at about sticking to the first priority target, so when on the next run they follow that advice they get bitched at about spreading their DPS to the rest of them. No matter what they do, there's even odds that the tank's going to be mad at them about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edeline

I just find it silly. If you're an elitist (not you, just in general) who want super duper fast runs with uber geared people, make your own premade to join the dungeon and your problem will be solved. You can't expect a super party in a RANDOM dungeon/trial/whatever matcher. You just either live with it or ragequit and get a 30 min penalty. Most of people doing these duty finder content are either to level up or progress through gear, you can't demand them to be endgame geared to have uber dps.

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I thnk there ahold be an expectation of competence with group mates whether it is PF, FC, or DF.
I don't expect A performances but we should expect C performance.

People like that..are people that I refuse to heal in a dungeon. Everyone was new at some point, so it's illogical to insult someone because they're new..