The future of Thief and Ninja (minor 2.2 spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Gladiator uses longswords, shortswords, gladii, flachions, falxes, daggers, scimitars, (n)odachi, and plenty other types of bladed weapons at present. The weapons of Conjurers and Thaumaturges differ only in aesthetics and material composition (CNJs using wooden, while THM tends towards metals and bone). This game's weapon classification is not very specific. And a ninja is not likely to be foiled just because he's given a straight-edged weapon.

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a katana is something only used by ninja's. It is not just a straight sword because it comes in a variety of styles just like the swords you mentioned. Yes dagger is used by Gladiator, but that doesn't mean Thief will be using a katana either. For reference, In FFXI Thief could use four different types of weapons, but never a katana.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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I hate to point this out.... but it seems that you are taking a quote from the game, inserting what you assume should be there, and saying its supported by the lore. I'm sorry but no text in the game even mentions a Thief class/job, or Ninja class/job. We do not know what job Yugiri fights in so we can not say she is a Ninja until we get official information. I don't believe she is a ninja because she doesn't use a katana. SE is very particular about their games and anything far eastern.

Thancred said he was a scandrel not a Thief. Ninja has its own fighting style, in FFXI Thief did not fight anything like a Ninja. People subjobed Ninja on Thief to cast shadows. The base job of a Thief with no subject didn't have anything magic, and you could never equip a katana, or dualweild.

We saw Yugiri fight, and excuse me, but dual-wielding combat with elemental power (At least lightning based skills) screams "Ninja"
As for Katanas, Ninjas in FFI didn't uses katanas, nor in FFV. In FFIII, they had far more options of dagger than katana. Shadow in FFVI uses both equally as do Ninjas in FFT or FFXII International, Yuffie in FFVII didn't use any of them.
And even in FFXI, they technilcaly can equip both weapons types.
Katanas are far from being "mandatory" to Ninjas. And it's very bold to claim that using Square-Enix's name when they've proven otherwise in previous games.

Thancred mentions that the "secret fraternity" he knows fight somehow similar and can adapt to the figthing style. I thinks it's safe to assume that this tease the link between "secret fratenity class" and Ninja job.
And when you see some members of this "secret fraternity" they're all dressed in green, with iconic shirt and bandanna. They really look like Thieves. And sorry, but "scoundrels" and "thieves" are pretty close in meaning.

And last, we're not in FFXI. Jobs in FFXIV are not what they are in FFXI.
Thief evolving into Ninja would precisely gives them the magical aspect of the job. As for Dual Wield, we won't have real "Dual Wield". After all, we know traits are not cross-class, so what's the point of having dual wield ? Ninja's weapon will just be "dual-one-handed-weapon" exactly like Monks. And, by the way, in FFXI, Thief was given Dual Wield in the end.

I suspect whatever they do, it will maintain the current pattern (but then again, all 'rules' are made to be broken)...

Classes have not been named after iconic jobs/classes from previous FFs. With 2.0, we got the arcanist which came with two jobs, one healer/support and one dps. I imagine any new classes will follow suit, one group support and one dps. I suspect Thief and Ninja will be jobs should they ever find their way into FF14. Considering the naming conventions behind classes, I would venture to say their class will be Rogue but 'Scoundrel' does fit well amongst the current class names.

That rule wasn't made by the actuel development team, but by the previous one.
Even the Arcanist was hinted in 1.0 (Guild in Limsa Lominsa)

And I don't think it can bring us something really unique and useful as a job.
Steal ? I can't see how it would be important. In offline games, it's usefull for stealing one-time items from one-time ennemies and mainly new equipment. In an MMO, there can't be that one-time-thief-only loot.
Flee ? Everybody has Sprint
The rest of THF arsenal is...traits...like Evasion Boost, Agility Bonus, and so on...but traits are from classes, not jobs.

Even considering FFXI, you can add the critical hit from behind...which the PGL already has, the transfering enmity skill (Ok, that would be new) and the Gil stealing skill, pretty useless to choose that particular job in a raid, same as Hide.
And Hide could very well fit into a Ninja arsenal, if the two are related.

Since you put it that way. Dagger/Rouge will be th class and Ninja being a Job. Don't really see how theif will fit in.

I can actually see Scout as a Class being really fun, especially if it branches out into a Thief Tank and a Ninja DPS. Now, I know a lot of people will find Thief Tank weird, but hold on.

I think of Zidane from FF9. He was really strong for a tank, he protected girls could take a hit and could distract his enemies. That's pretty much what a tank does. The way I see it, at level 30 Thief gets a Stance like Paladins that increases their HP, reduces damage taken by 30%, converts some of their Critical into Parry and increases the Threat they do. At 35 they get their "Steal" which is actually just a Taunt which increases the threat they do for a short time after as well. At 40 they get a Defensive Cooldown probably like, dodge all attacks for the next 5 seconds. At 45 they get an AoE Threat generating attack, at 50 they get a Defensive Cooldown that also deals damage. They would share their gear with Monks but because of the stance it'd be tanking gear for them.

As for the Ninja, I see them using their Ninjitsu to debuff enemies while empowering themselves. Kind of a self sustained support dps, similar to the bard. While both classes would use Daggers, for the Ninja their Unique Daggers would actually be Kunai or Ninja Swords. Now, from here the class itself will be based around DPS which is why Thief gets the Stance at 30. But it's combo's would deal increased threat as a Scout if done in a certain order, but deal extra damage if done another way. So the Ninja and Thief while using similar moves will pull off different effects.

The way I see Thief being made is Lv.30 Scout, Lv. 15 Lancer and then having Marauder as a Tertiary Class. I feel the Lancer Parry CD is strong for a tank, and I'm sad Paladin and Warrior never got it. I thought about Gladiator as the Tertiary Class but the way I see it, Thief is just like Provoke but a bit better as it temporarily would increase the threat generated after it's used. The Thief would be the closest thing to an Evasive Tank we have and because of their gear set up would deal I'd imagine the most damage out of all the tanks.

As for the Ninja, I see them being Lv.30 Scout, Lv.15 Pugilist and then having Archer as the Tertiary Class. The Ninja is made to DPS, while I imagine the Ninjitsu's will do some amount of Support, like Flame Jitsu making your allies hit the enemy a bit harder after its used on an enemy, Flood Jitsu causing you to attack faster after it used and Lightning Jitsu possibly slowing the attack speed of your enemy, they'll be the Support DPS like the Bard, but have more damage because they don't have the range.

I feel like doing it like this would do two things for the game, it'd get us more Support DPS as people like Ninjas, so as a whole everyone's DPS will go up if they're a support like I think. It'll also give us another option for tanking, I have a friend who loved the old school druid tank in WoW, they dodged a lot because they didn't have Block and parry to help mitigate damage. The Thief would be a bit different because they get Parry from Crit, but they'll still take a bit more damage then a Warrior or Paladin because they use light armor, and would have to balance their cooldowns better with their healers. While dealing more damage for those who are interested in tanking, but still want to deal a lot of damage. As it stands now, I don't find Paladin or Warriors are really better, they excel in different roles and have different play styles and can all do the same thing. I feel like the Thief would fit there as well, a bit riskier if you're new to tanking but excelling in the right hands.

Atleast, that's what I hope will happen. People seem to be focusing on what Thieves are in other games, they forget about the power house that Zidane is, how much Threat Control they had in XI. They focus on Steal and Flee, which while they are staples to the Thief, isn't all they have. Steal works as a Taunt, everyone has Sprint and battles work different that Flee isn't really needed. As for Ninjas, I really hope they aren't tanks like they were in XI, they should be a DPS and if they're returning with Ninjitsu they should benefit themselves and the group with them. It's an MMO, not just an RPG. :P

Damage Taken -30% is a LOOOOOT, considering PLD "only" has 20% :p

For the THF tank, there is one problem, and it's called level sync.
Suppose you get your THF and you register for a low-level dungeon where you won't have your lvl30 Stance. How will you tank in your DPS-oriented class ?

As for THF in FFXI, they indeed had hate control, but not as tank. The same could be done in FFXIV, but threat is far less an issue than in FFXI.

And the way I see it, Evasion tank is a problem. Too little evasion and it's totally unreliable, too much evasion and it's overpowered. FFXI did not manage the balance, I'm afraid FFXIV won't.

I haven't forgotten Zidane, he's not a powerhouse as a THF but as a Genome :p

Im just hoping that we do not get a thief/ninja/whatever kind of tank. Lets be realistic, how the heck is a guy/girl with daggers supposed to tank mobs? With Sword and shield - yes. With an two-handed axe - yes. With 2 daggers - what? >.<

Steal doesn't have to be the concept of stealing items. Someone made an interesting point, "Steal" could be abstracted into the idea of stealing enmity - making the class/job/whatever a tank.

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Originally Posted by rwyan

Steal doesn't have to be the concept of stealing items. Someone made an interesting point, "Steal" could be abstracted into the idea of stealing enmity - making the class/job/whatever a tank.

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Or outright stealing buffs from enemies and replicating them from allies. Bring a tank and you have yourself an OT. Bring a Bard and you have an extra burst dps. Half effect (double-AA Barrage as compared to triple), half duration. Finite charges available for theft, regenerating about one every 30 seconds, to a max of 4.

If you want the class (Thief) to be truly valuable / OP, just make it so you can only steal abilities you have cross-classed or else you can use steal to refresh the duration on an ability you already have by stealing it (refreshing half of the duration on Raging Strikes at full effect for the added duration).

You can also tag on an enmity-steal to that, and then place that enmity on someone else with another ability, 'Sabotage' or whatever.

If one still wanted to go with the item route (of 'Steal'), there would just have to be a way by which one could use basic items (healing and mana potions) for both damage and self-healing with a reduced CD on their use or else class-specific consumables (which likely would not actually take up inventory, being stored instead as buffs). If real consumables are used, Steal would basically keep your stock unlimited while in the dungeon, at the end of which the additional stock disappears.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Damage Taken -30% is a LOOOOOT, considering PLD "only" has 20% :p

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Paladins also have heavy armor, while Thiefs only have Light Armor. Huge difference alone right there, I'd almost say they warrant taking 50% less damage. And like I said, they could still combo for threat as a Scout, they'd just be a lot tankier at 30 and deal a lot more threat.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Or outright stealing buffs from enemies and replicating them from allies. Bring a tank and you have yourself an OT. Bring a Bard and you have an extra burst dps. Half effect (double-AA Barrage as compared to triple), half duration. Finite charges available for theft, regenerating about one every 30 seconds, to a max of 4.

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I'm all for this concept of a thief. I'm sold. I also liked how GW2 implemented steal as well (kind of like stealing abilities).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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I do not see Ninja being released in this game and not using a ninjato/katana. There is a standard that SE goes by, as they create more games they fine tune them and build on them. That is like making Samurai use a long sword instead of a long katana.

From the CS what Yugiri does might not even be a elemental attack. In Final Fantasy purple represents the lightning elemental. What Yugiri did was red/orange color. It's up in the area if it is lightning related. To me Yugiri looks just like a assassin from Final Fantasy tactics. All ninjas in Final Fantasy are dressed in mostly black unless they are a main character from a offline version. Assassins do use standard daggers.

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And sorry, but "scoundrels" and "thieves" are pretty close in meaning.

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They are not one in the same. A Thief steals to provide but has a greedy demeanor and steals more than what they need, its is an actual black market job. A Scoundrel lives their life to be deceiving even when it has no financial return. My guess is that the class could be scoundrel and the job coming from scoundrel could be Thief.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

That is like making Samurai use a long sword instead of a long katana.

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Except Samurai didn't use Swords in past installment.
In Final Fantasy V, "Equip Katana" is even one of their two passive learnable skills.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

From the CS what Yugiri does might not even be a elemental attack. In Final Fantasy purple represents the lightning elemental. What Yugiri did was red/orange color. It's up in the area if it is lightning related.

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Maybe Yugiri didn't do a ligtning attack, but at least it's a magical one.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

To me Yugiri looks just like a assassin from Final Fantasy tactics. Assassins do use standard daggers.

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Assassin doesn't exists in Final Fantasy Tactics as a playable job. Celia and Lede are labeled "Assassins' and use Katanas or Ninja Blades. They even have Dual Wield.
In FFTA and FFTA2, it's the Viera equivalent of Ninja and uses...Katana, not daggers.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

All ninjas in Final Fantasy are dressed in mostly black unless they are a main character from a offline version.

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Since Ninja is a job, it's mostly used by the player characters and most of them are quite colorful.
As for generic Ninjas in FFT, males are blue and females are red. And in FFTA, they're purple. What color is Yugiri again ?

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I do not see Ninja being released in this game and not using a ninjato/katana. There is a standard that SE goes by, as they create more games they fine tune them and build on them. That is like making Samurai use a long sword instead of a long katana.

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In Final Fantasy V, they were classified as Daggers. In Final Fantasy VI, Shadow's special weapons were classified as Daggers. I see it being the same thing in this game, they'll be called Daggers, but they'll be Kunai and Ninja Swords instead. Edge is really the only Ninja I recall using Katana's. Every other game, Samurai's used his weapons. (FFV and Cyan in FFVI)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except Samurai didn't use Swords in past installment.
In Final Fantasy V, "Equip Katana" is even one of their two passive learnable skills.

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I didn't say Samurai used swords at all, I know they use katana. I'm starting to think you do not read what I write and that I might need to just ignore you because you just want to argue at this point. Also, sure Ninja used a dagger in a very old game but that doesn't mean it will do it again, and I hope not because using katana as Ninja is what made the job appealing.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Maybe Yugiri didn't do a ligtning attack, but at least it's a magical one.

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There are plenty of aoe DPS actions in this game that looks just like what Yugiri does in the CS. As of this moment, it can not be confirmed to be a magical action because all magical actions in this game have a casting animation. Look at Ninja animations in FFXI, to get a understanding of what Ninja magic might look like. Ninja cast with their hands to their mouth and their are characters that float around them ( 1:38 of this video --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b45ts9TaB4M.) Also... what Yugiri did in the CS could just be a cool action sequence that isn't even going to be a job action for the game.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Assassin doesn't exists in Final Fantasy Tactics as a playable job. Celia and Lede are labeled "Assassins' and use Katanas or Ninja Blades. They even have Dual Wield.
In FFTA and FFTA2, it's the Viera equivalent of Ninja and uses...Katana, not daggers.

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If assassin doesn't exist in tactics then what is this?
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/A...ctics_Advance)
Also All tactics games exist in the same world. By the way, this same game has both Ninja and Assassin as separate options to play as. Yugiri looks more like the Assassin job in this tactics game than the Ninja job that is within the very same game.

I never said ninja did not dual wield. If you want to have a conversatation with me, I need for you to not add words that I have never stated. Also in FFXIV you could equip two weapons and guess what? No one in the first version of FFXIV was a ninja. Equiping two weapons in the Final Fantasy series is not a Ninja only trait. The most recent example is Bravely Default where there were two traits, Dual Wield and Two Handed. Only one of those traits came from leveling a Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Since Ninja is a job, it's mostly used by the player characters and most of them are quite colorful.
As for generic Ninjas in FFT, males are blue and females are red. And in FFTA, they're purple. What color is Yugiri again ?

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I don't really understand what you mean by this. Player characters are created to stand out from the rest of the npcs, of course they will be colorful. If it is a special job armor it will follow the style of the series, which is black. The only thing purple on Yugiri is her hood.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

In Final Fantasy V, they were classified as Daggers. In Final Fantasy VI, Shadow's special weapons were classified as Daggers. I see it being the same thing in this game, they'll be called Daggers, but they'll be Kunai and Ninja Swords instead. Edge is really the only Ninja I recall using Katana's. Every other game, Samurai's used his weapons. (FFV and Cyan in FFVI)

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They are Katana daggers, not standard daggers which is my problem. I wouldn't be appealing if Ninja used daggers that Thieves used instead of Katana daggers.

I don't know the history behind the "Ninja" as it exists in FF games - I started playing with FF7; played 8 and 9; and played 13.

But the idea of someone called a "Ninja" being put in a stand-up Tank role is just... wrong.

They ought to be single-target Glass Cannons; extremely-powerful single-target DD, attacking from behind, attacking from "concealement"; applying powerful debuffs - debilitating debuffs like Poison, Hamstring, Shoestring (Shoestring? Yeah... tied your shoelaces together while you weren't looking...)

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Originally Posted by LoLo

They are Katana daggers, not standard daggers which is my problem. I wouldn't be appealing if Ninja used daggers that Thieves used instead of Katana daggers.

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Yeah, but they can still be classified as Daggers and just look different. Summoners and Scholars use similar weapons, but they're different. Ninja and Thief would be the same.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I didn't say Samurai used swords at all, I know they use katana.

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You said one-handed Katana was as iconic for Ninja than two-handed katanas were for Samurai, which is wrong.
Dual Wield is what makes Ninja appealing

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Originally Posted by LoLo

If assassin doesn't exist in tactics then what is this?
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/A...ctics_Advance)
Also All tactics games exist in the same world. By the way, this same game has both Ninja and Assassin as separate options to play as. Yugiri looks more like the Assassin job in this tactics game than the Ninja job that is within the very same game.

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This is something not in Final Fantasy Tactics, where assassins were not playable, but in Tactics Advance...like I said in my post. Please use the proper game name when you mention it.
In FFTA ans FFTA2, Ninja and Assassin are very close, but each one is race restricted.
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ta-h-ninja.jpg
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...a-assassin.jpg
And, seriously, they look pretty much the same...

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I never said ninja did not dual wield.

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I never said you did. I only pointed that Assassin ennemies in FFT can use Dual Wield too, an iconic skill of Ninja which, again, brings Assassin very close to the Ninja archetype, only with a different name as to separate player jobs from enemy jobs.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Also in FFXIV you could equip two weapons and guess what? No one in the first version of FFXIV was a ninja.

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No one can equip two weapons at the same time in FFXIV... The only FF game where everyone can equip two weapons is Final Fantasy III. In IV, only Edge can do it, in V, you need Dual Wield, learned from Ninja, as in Tactics series.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

The most recent example is Bravely Default where there were two traits, Dual Wield and Two Handed. Only one of those traits came from leveling a Ninja.

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In Bravely Default, Ninja is the only one we can uses two weapons with maxed efficiency.
And what does Two-handed have to do here ?! It allows you to wield one weapon with two hands, thus PREVENTING you from equipping a second weapon.
I mean, it's interesing to have several opinions, but, please, don't make your point by using wrons statements.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I don't really understand what you mean by this. Player characters are created to stand out from the rest of the npcs, of course they will be colorful. If it is a special job armor it will follow the style of the series, which is black. The only thing purple on Yugiri is her hood.

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Job quests NPC also stands out from the rest of the NPC. Almost every NPC that gives the job quest wears something iconic to the job. And, appart from the PC Ninjas, what ninjas do you find in the series, anyway ?

I did not say Ninja is one handed while Samurai is two handed as well as some other things you posted that were not what I said as well. You seem obsessed with responding to me (you have only posted to reply to my comments for the past three-four days but ignore everyone else's post) and most of what you say is made up and just assumptions. I will be posting here still but will not be engaging you anymore after this post.

You ignored the fact that both of those jobs play completely different. To me they do not look the same in appearance.

Ninja: Skills
Throw
Wood Veil
Fire Veil
Earth Veil
Metal Veil
Water Veil
Unspell
Oblivion
ReactionEdit
Last Haste
Double Sword
Ninja Combo

Assassin: Skills
Shadowbind
Last Breath
Aphonia
Nightmare
Ague Ranger
Rockseal
Oblivion
Ultima Masher
Return Fire
Killer Combo

You ignored their skills just to say they are the same in a ditch effort to prove I'm wrong when I'm not.

My whitemage and blackmage in my party in the game Bravely default are holding two staffs/rods. Yet I haven't even unlocked ninja yet. hmmmm

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I do not see Ninja being released in this game and not using a ninjato/katana. There is a standard that SE goes by, as they create more games they fine tune them and build on them. That is like making Samurai use a long sword instead of a long katana.

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You CLEARLY said that ninjato/katana is iconic to Ninja like 2-handed Katana is iconic to Samurai.
Which is wrong. Ninja have always used daggers along ninja blades, whereas samurai couldn't even equip swords. And in FFV, there's no "Equip ninja blade" passive skill to learn from ninja.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

To me they do not look the same in appearance.

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Same hat, same mouth-covering mask, same sleeves, same pants...indeed they have nothing in common

Water Veil - Silence / Aphonia - Silence
Earth Veil - Slow / Ague - Slow
Oblivion - Addle / Oblivion - Addle (WHAT ?! They SHARE a skill ?!)
Ninja combo / Killer combo...both learned from the same weapon (And only those two)
Again, they reaaally have nothing in common

Did I mention that Assassins in FFTA and FFTA2 don't learn Dual Wield ?

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Originally Posted by LoLo

My whitemage and blackmage in my party in the game Bravely default are holding two staffs/rods. Yet I haven't even unlocked ninja yet. hmmmm

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So what ? Yugiri's a White Mage now cause they can dual wield natively in Bravely Default ?
I even wonder why Bravely Default is in this topic, since it's not a FF game. And you brought it to mention two traits to allow you to Dual Wield efficiently, which is, again, wrong.

Ninjas have Dual wielded since FF3, but often they would still use "Euro swords" and daggers even when more eastern blades were an option, often being the sole users of Boomerang type weapons or sharing them with thieves. FFXIV marries weapon type to class, so "Dual blades" or something similarly generic will be shared between thief/classname/ninja with perhaps more eastern designs and names being put on Job specific versions much like how Scholar books are different from Summoner ones. There will likely be no overlap with existing Gladitor "daggers".

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Originally Posted by Kletian

Ninjas have Dual wielded since FF3, but often they would still use "Euro swords" and daggers even when more eastern blades were an option, often being the sole users of Boomerang type weapons or sharing them with thieves. FFXIV marries weapon type to class, so "Dual blades" or something similarly generic will be shared between thief/classname/ninja with perhaps more eastern designs and names being put on Job specific versions much like how Scholar books are different from Summoner ones. There will likely be no overlap with existing Gladitor "daggers".

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Interesting, the only example I can find that has Thief gain Dual Wield is in FFXI after the level increased pass level 75. I assume that reason the devs did this because Thieves were forced to subjob ninja. Not having to subjob ninja anymore allowed Thieves to sub something else, however they still needed Ninja to access shadows.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Interesting, the only example I can find that has Thief gain Dual Wield is in FFXI after the level increased pass level 75. I assume that reason the devs did this because Thieves were forced to subjob ninja. Not having to subjob ninja anymore allowed Thieves to sub something else, however they still needed Ninja to access shadows.

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I was talking about ninjas being the dual wielders and most importantly them using non-katana/ninja-to weapons, so I don't understand your reply. That said:

Dual wielding is available to most (but not all) classes in FF3, including thief. In FF6 the Genji glove controlled who dual wielded, which Locke could equip. FF5 they could not unless you equipped the trait from having leveled ninja, like FF11. FF9 Zidane was a thief who used either twin daggers (dual wielding with one "weapon" or two daggers stuck together to form a twinblade spear/staff. In FFT Dual wielding worked like FF5.

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Originally Posted by Kletian

I was talking about ninjas being the dual wielders and most importantly them using non-katana/ninja-to weapons, so I don't understand your reply. That said:

Dual wielding is available to most (but not all) classes in FF3, including thief. In FF6 the Genji glove controlled who dual wielded, which Locke could equip. FF5 they could not unless you equipped the trait from having leveled ninja, like FF11. FF9 Zidane was a thief who used either twin daggers (dual wielding with one "weapon" or two daggers stuck together to form a twinblade spear/staff. In FFT Dual wielding worked like FF5.

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My reply was me thinking of a job that is not Ninja who also has dual wield. Its adding to the conversatation, not every post has to be a debate on who is right or wrong. Earlier another user was trying to debate that Ninja is the only job that ever had dual wield to confirm that Yugiri is a Ninja.

guessing , THE or Assassin is a class , Ninja is the job

am i the only one who thinks it would be awesome to not include all the combos possible and let us figure out the new jobs? just tell us ok they're out there.

There is no Thief.. Only Treasure Hunter.. Not involved in any illicit activities what-so-ever, nope.

If they actually called the dual wield base class this, and it was a running gag in their guild and quests... That would be awesome. Yes, big FFVI fan here.

Thancred to me screamed Scout. He always went ahead to scout out the beast tribes, and gather information. To me that is Scouting.

I think the base class will be Scout, and branch off into Thief, i just dont see Ninja released at the same time as the other 2 classes/jobs that will be coming in 2.3+.

I also think Musketeer will be the base class (the guild of course has been in game since 1.0) with the job class being a ranged tank. What the class will be called could be any ones guess.

Those will be the ones i see being released first, then possible in the expansion each of those being expanded on.

Isn't a "ranged tank" kind of an oxymoron ?

I mean, tanks are supposed to take hits, and the vast majority of monsters hit at close range.
It's kind of weird to use firearms if you spent 90% of combat shooting at point blank.

Thief will probably be a positional melee person, bet he will have a back stab attack, side stab, and even something where he has to be in front of the mob (cleave range), who probably steals enimity from people and can transfer to the tank, and can probably steal hp from the mob to heal himself.

Ninja I think will be kinda a either or, melee or range.. so in movement fights Ninja would be better, in tank n spank fights thief would better, and fights with adds, again thief would better because they could tag an add and transfer the enimity to the tank for control.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Isn't a "ranged tank" kind of an oxymoron ?

I mean, tanks are supposed to take hits, and the vast majority of monsters hit at close range.
It's kind of weird to use firearms if you spent 90% of combat shooting at point blank.

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Hey it worked for SWToR im sure SE can make it work here as well. Im not saying thats what i'll be but i wouldnt be shocked if thats what his quote ment "not what we are expecting" when it concerns the gun class.

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

Thief will probably be a positional melee person, bet he will have a back stab attack, side stab, and even something where he has to be in front of the mob (cleave range), who probably steals enimity from people and can transfer to the tank, and can probably steal hp from the mob to heal himself.

Ninja I think will be kinda a either or, melee or range.. so in movement fights Ninja would be better, in tank n spank fights thief would better, and fights with adds, again thief would better because they could tag an add and transfer the enimity to the tank for control.

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I dont like the idea of Thief transfering arggo nor stealing health. I see thief having more of an arggo dump in the form of going stealth or something, also i think they will play more like a debuff class that will help everyone in the group, like lowering armor and/or health, maybe evening crippling there speed/attack speed, something along those lines.

As far as Ninja job goes (i never played FFXI) i dont like the idea of them being a tank class. Ninja's are stealthy and sneaky, they like to attack from shadows and dispatch there opponents quickly and silently, an assassin, its what they are and should be played like one.

Also i think both will be jobs, not classes.

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Originally Posted by Legendlives

Hey it worked for SWToR im sure SE can make it work here as well.

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How does it play in SWToR ?

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Originally Posted by Legendlives

I dont like the idea of Thief transfering arggo nor stealing health. I see thief having more of an arggo dump in the form of going stealth or something, also i think they will play more like a debuff class that will help everyone in the group, like lowering armor and/or health, maybe evening crippling there speed/attack speed, something along those lines.

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I highly doubt that you'll find Thieves able to stealth in any shape or form, as the closest thing to such in previous games would be the "Hide" ability, which was typically something that belonged to Bards.

The aggro transfer abilities on the other hand, would be something that has been seen in the series before. This is not to say that they can't implement something completely new and unique to ARR's rendition of the Thief, of course.

Personally I see them having a lot of debuffs, to reflect the abilities of more recent incarnations of the Thief, where they could steal equipment/stats/etc.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

How does it play in SWToR ?

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Just like any other tank in any other game. The only difference was that they were range.

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Originally Posted by Malrend

The aggro transfer abilities on the other hand, would be something that has been seen in the series before.

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Im sorry but refresh my memory on this, its been a long time since i've played the older FF games but i've never remembered any of the thieves having an aggro transfer ability.

Either way i still think Thief's will have a stealth base aggro dump cause Yoshi has said he wants to add a stealth class so i see them having stealth in some way.

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Originally Posted by Legendlives

Im sorry but refresh my memory on this, its been a long time since i've played the older FF games but i've never remembered any of the thieves having an aggro transfer ability.

Either way i still think Thief's will have a stealth base aggro dump cause Yoshi has said he wants to add a stealth class so i see them having stealth in some way.

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Well FFXI was the first.. In the sense that it had an actual aggro/enmity system, which isn't really something that is part of turn-based combat systems.
However, in the Tactics/Ivalice Alliance games, Thieves tend to be among the few who can inflict Confusion and Charm status, both of which are probably the closest to aggro management you can find in turn-based combat.
And a large amount of FF fans will loathe me for mentioning this, but the same thing was possible in FFX-2, and in that same game they could also inflict Berserk on enemies and allies.