Vote Kick abuse really needs to end.

I agree OP, and I hope you reported that group for vote kick abuse in game as well.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

So you are aware but because it happened to YOU it needs a whole new topic that will get overlooked and buried?
If the people around here actually used forums properly things that you don't like might actually get changed.
400 threads on the same thing get looked over.
1 thread with thousands of replies doesn't.

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Attempting to derail threads with unhelpful post like this are also against forum policy, and unlike duplicate threads will actually get you banned. You might want to check up on that.

Well I don't agree with people getting kicked because they are new and watching CSs. Having said that you should have just continued without that person, While they watched CSs. I would say 4/7 times a week there is at least one new person in my DF runs for Praet (cause that's all I get) they get left behind if they watch CSs. I never heard of anyone complaining because they didn't get to fight a boss on their first run.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

I think the courtesy you are looking for comes from the vets who were noob once, and enjoyed that content, in real time. Not the opposite. Get off your unicorn. (pun intended ;) ).

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I'm actually not a vet at all. I hit 50 just under a week ago and still skipped all of the content even though it was my first time there. It was much more enjoyable to watch it in an inn instead of feeling like I was letting my group down by watching like 5 minute long cutscenes. The story doesn't change at all even if you go back and watch it later, so as long as you have at least some kind of memory you can mentally play back the boss battle in your head between watching the cutscenes in the inn.
If you are really bent on having the real time immersion experience, you could probably organize a party that is not going to skip cutscenes.

Keep in mind that this is considered an abuse of the votekick function and is a punishable violation of the rules. Take the time to file a report. Eventually these people will realize that saving 5 minutes is not worth being locked out for a week and they will either deal with it or they will stop speedrunning outdated, lengthy dungeons in the duty finder. Either way everyone else wins.


I rarely bother with Main Scenario Roulette, but if I do and there's a new person there, I slow down to their pace. The party can't kick us both, so they have no choice but to play with the hand they were dealt. Have fun trying to speed run with 6 people/1 healer. I do this because even as a closed beta tester I hit end game "late" enough to get dragged through CM by a group who had cleared the next area before I finished with the cutscene and I know how much this sucks. Sorry, but I enjoyed the story and I was not and will not be deprived of my playing experience.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I feel like it's just a courtesy from the new person to watch the cinematics later in the inn.

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It seems like some people just can't understand that this ruins the experience of the entire dungeon. Imagine reading every third page of a book, and then going back and reading the rest. This is not a courtesy, it's an insane suggestion.

In Soviet Eorzea, Vote Kick ends you.

Cutscenes should be just simply forced to play thru in full (no skipping period) if there is a first-timer in the mix. See:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ipping-Dilemma

The odds that you get a first-timer is rare compared to the odds of people doing roulette.

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Originally Posted by Melithea

It seems like some people just can't understand that this ruins the experience of the entire dungeon. Imagine reading every third page of a book, and then going back and reading the rest. This is not a courtesy, it's an insane suggestion.

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Yeah, but imagine that you're reading a book and you're forcing 7 other people to unwillingly read the book with you (for the nth time for them). That doesn't make sense. If you want the story you should form a group of people who all agree to watch all of the cutscenes. Since a majority of the group decides NOT to watch the cutscenes, it should be majority rule. If a majority wants to watch the cutscenes, then sure.

Look CM is gross with the way they peppered cs's into the dungeon but you know what, it's not that bad.
On the other hand, Praetorium is really nice with their cs placement.
They're the last two dungeons of the main storyline. Newbies and otherwise should be allowed to watch the cutscenes.

I mean really, one chooses to flag up for Main Scenario Duty Roulette. Nobody is forced to use Duty Roulette or Duty Finder.
What people need to remember is that since it is DR and DF, you can and may very well be put into a group with people who are new, undergeared, and people who want to watch their cut scenes.

Now for those of you who have issues with the way Duty Finder/Duty Roulette works, I have great news!
Luckily, SE implemented something called 'Party Finder' where you can go and set up the perfect team for all of your myth/soldiery tome farming needs! =D

Have to wonder something. If CS's where not skippable. how many total hours would be spent in them if you played a year.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Have to wonder something. If CS's where not skippable. how many total hours would be spent in them if you played a year.

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People probably would never do CM/Pre again. Especially CM.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

but after seeing this finally happen for myself, this is a obviously a recurring trend that needs to end.

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Seeing as you apparently "finally" saw it for the first time there is no possible way you could ever say that you've seen a trend. By it's very nature a trend requires you to see a pattern. One is not a pattern. Reading about something colloquially doesn't really count either.


That said if it happens then report them. Not much you can do about it.

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Originally Posted by VesperValveto

So one person got kicked because they were ruining the run for the majority of the rest of the party? Sounds like the kick feature is working as intended to me.

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Ok i am really sick of responses like these.

the guy was NEW...how was he ruining it for everyone else? they ran the easiest 8man dungeon like a billion times.
. if youre trying to clear the dungeon as fast as hell because your child is about to graduate or perform his first play in school, you really need to work on priorities in your life. what is the serious purpose of rushing?
STOP HARASSING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WATCH CUTSCENCES.

it's a shame. i think what should happen is, whoever is new the CS cant be skippable.
or you guys can suck it up let ppl watch them...or dont evr run prae and cm again just to be on the safe side.
whichever you pick, deal with it. :/

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Originally Posted by Titor

Yeah, but imagine that you're reading a book and you're forcing 7 other people to unwillingly read the book with you (for the nth time for them)..

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We're straining the metaphor here, but if we're going for accuracy it would be more like 7 people have willingly agreed to read and finish the book with you, but then demand that you skip to the last chapter so they don't have to read the "boring parts". Nobody forced those people to sign up for duty roulette, knowing full well the range of other players who may also be joining.

You also can't join Low Level Roulette and then kick someone out because you got Toto-Rak again. You picked your poison and you knew it was a gamble.

Should of just made the place soloable.

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Originally Posted by Titor

Yeah, but imagine that you're reading a book and you're forcing 7 other people to unwillingly read the book with you (for the nth time for them). That doesn't make sense. If you want the story you should form a group of people who all agree to watch all of the cutscenes. Since a majority of the group decides NOT to watch the cutscenes, it should be majority rule. If a majority wants to watch the cutscenes, then sure.

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Nobody forced the others to que for the dungeon in DF. That was their choice. They can form a party using the party finder.

The quest text for both MC and praetorium states "Use the Duty Finder to enter..." so the people who are doing the quest and watching said cut scenes are doing exactly what the game is asking them to do.

At the end of the day the quest tells you to use DF to enter, it gives you cut scenes to view in it, therefore they are doing what the quest was intended for. If you cannot understand or do not wish to allow them to do that, create a party in PF. When I sign up for something in DR I understand that the situation may not be what I wish (SR vs. no SR) but that is what you are given the bonus for, agreeing to do it with other who may need.

This is terrible i typically make a point to tell anyone who asks if they can watch cut scenes to go ahead and do it. I have been attacked by parties for that sentiment as well. On the same token though vote kick does have some valid reasons for implementation. Such as kicking harassing elitist players or afk players. All in all though it may be more trouble than it is worth. I think the only way to continue with vote-kick would be for serious repercussions for using it in a way it's not intended.

Just last night on CM, it was the first time in 2 weeks I ran across a first-timer on my main scenario. He was tank and I was using my SCH. He told everyone up front he was new, the other tank bailed on everyone in less than 30 secs. If you don't want to help a new player, you still have the right to leave. Nontheless that kind of behavior alone is already being a big enough jerk. And to abuse vote kick on the new player, that is just flat out wrong.

In any case, I told the new tank to take the pulls small and we will work thru things slowly, and we will all wait for him on the cutscene. Luckily 1/3 of the way thru a tank came and joined us and he was actually really helpful and explained all aspects of the run and we all did without a single wipe, and he got to see his cutscenes too.

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Originally Posted by Titor

.... If you want the story you should form a group of people who all agree to watch all of the cutscenes. Since a majority of the group decides NOT to watch the cutscenes, it should be majority rule. If a majority wants to watch the cutscenes, then sure.

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If there is a first-timer to CM or Praetorium, the system should disable cutscene skipping. Then there would be not issue. How often do you run into first-timers, like once a in 20 runs or so. The nth time is like once in 20.

The whole notion that majority rule is just utter BS. Just because the majority of catholic church bishops and cardinals thought the earth was flat so they decided that they can excommunicate Galileo, or Martin Luther. That is just a self selecting majority that is just abusing their mob rule. What kind of majority is that? Or just because the majority of men thought that women should not have the right to vote. What kind of BS majority is that? So you got 8 players in a game, 7 of the 8 being from the same BS elitist jerk FC abusing the system (duty finder and vote kick) does not a majority make.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

OP post

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That's why you can report the group. Dungeon / time / world you joined from. Report what happened and move on. Let the GM's decide if they need to contact you for more info. They don't take abuse of any form lightly. I have reported people for random acts of blatent abuse and had GM's respond with inquiries about what happened. They just need to look into their logs one they narrow down where it happened.

Report and move along, that's all I can say.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yeah, I'm sure that one new person in a party of seven vets in Praetorium was really screwing things up.

Do you usually think before you speak?

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If that person is a tank, then those seven people need to have their time wasted while they sit there and wait for him to watch cutscenes. Even if the person is not a tank, seven people should not need to sit around and wait for one selfish person. The cut scenes are available in the inn. Again, the vote kick feature is working as intended.

Maybe you should try practicing what you preach; you'll look less foolish that way.

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Originally Posted by VesperValveto

If that person is a tank, then those seven people need to have their time wasted while they sit there and wait for him to watch cutscenes. Even if the person is not a tank, seven people should not need to sit around and wait for one selfish person. The cut scenes are available in the inn. Again, the vote kick feature is working as intended.

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And this would be blatant abuse which could get you reported and possibly account (temp/perma) banned from playing for abusing the vote kick "feature". I have reported people for abusing the vote kick "feature" and there *has* been action taken against them.

Your choice.

Reporting abuse. Working as intented.

Now I don't agree one bit with the guy getting vote-kicked, unless he somehow fooled you into thinking he was new when he was actually using the CS' to AFK. I suggest reporting them and moving on.

However, when it comes to the speed of the run, he was outnumbered and majority rules in DF. That's just how things are right now. It's better than before when jerks could AFK for an entire run and still get the rewards, or someone could troll until everyone left because there was no way to stop them at the time.

The new guy could have left right away when he noticed people were speedrunning, saving him the annoyance.

If you're running something for the first time and want to watch all the cutscenes, you can make your own PF group. I know the OP doesn't want to hear this but it's a great option for newbies that shouldn't be ignored because of pride.

If the PF group doesn't fill, you can ask FC mates to help. If they wont, you can shout for people to help. If they wont help either, then this something that can happen if you treat a MMO like a single-player.

I just don't see this issue as being big since it's easily remedied and better than the alternative.

I think it is stupid as hell that they should be forced to watch cutscenes in a inn because people are impatient. I think Foo01 idea is great. You lose alot of the feel of the story by skipping cutscenes you're fighting these parts and not knowing why or the context of it. I get bored waiting for people to do cut scenes but in no way do i want them to feel they need to skip them on my account.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

And this would be blatant abuse which could get you reported and possibly account (temp/perma) banned from playing for abusing the vote kick "feature". I have reported people for abusing the vote kick "feature" and there *has* been action taken against them.

Your choice.

Reporting abuse. Working as intented.

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You're so wrong it makes me laugh. It's not abusing the vote kick (seeing how it's being used exactly as intended). I seriously doubt that you have reported people for it, and even if you have, you have no way of knowing if action was taken or not, seeing how a GM is not going to tell you what action (if any) was taken. What did you do, report all 6 other people in the grp? How do you know all 6 voted in favor of the kick?

Sorry, but no one is believing your petty attempt into bullying other people into doing what you want them to do.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people on this forum think that they decide how someone should experience the game. If you don't want to take a chance that someone's going to watch the cutscenes, use party finder/friends and agree not to. You guys make me want to watch them on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

It never ceases to amaze me how some people on this forum think that they decide how someone should experience the game. If you don't want to take a chance that someone's going to watch the cutscenes, use party finder/friends and agree not to. You guys make me want to watch them on purpose.

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aren't you doing the same thing?

if people don't wanna wait then why should they have to wait

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Originally Posted by MrSigy

cutscene's in instances are generally a bad idea to begin with, without it we would never have this issue.

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While I do agree CSs in instances are a bad idea the issue would still remain.

People using dubious mechanics like CSs in instances or grind mechanics to field asshat character is nothing more than an excuse.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

You seem to simply (or purposely) forget the principle of the Roulette.

Roulette was added to the game so one newcomer without a group would quickly find other players with who to play the dungeon he needs to complete
By helping newcomers complete their dungeon, the veterans earn a bonus reward.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...812-02-2013%29

So much for that argument

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Originally Posted by Luxx

Also, I believe the roulette duty's are for the newbies who need to run it, the people who join just get tomes for the help.

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Except that the story quest is needed only to be ran once to progress, while running multiple times to get tomes is almost necessary to progress in content. It is easier to form up a story group for a one time event for newbies, where it is impossible to form groups for roulettes whom all agree to skip the cutscenes.

Also it would be really easy to troll people who want to skip the content. What if I claimed that i really enjoyed the cutscenes and wanted to watch them again and again even though I saw it once already? I could hold up the whole group for literally no reason while I go and make popcorn (but they don't know that) during every cutscene. And no one would be able to argue about it.

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Originally Posted by Titor

Also it would be really easy to troll people who want to skip the content. What if I claimed that i really enjoyed the cutscenes and wanted to watch them again and again even though I saw it once already? I could hold up the whole group for literally no reason while I go and make popcorn (but they don't know that) during every cutscene. And no one would be able to argue about it.

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Except the Main Scenario dungeons can easily be 5-7 manned. 1 person watching cutscenes does not negatively effect the party in the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Issac

I agree with your sentiments. I was fearful of votekick being implemented. It just gives the toxic community more ammunition to become more toxic.

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Pretty much this.

"Oh you're playing and enjoying the game the way it was intended? Here, let me kick you from group and make sure you can't advance your storyline." Completely pathetic. This sorts of behavior, if reported and confirmed, needs to result in an immediate 30 day ban on the account.

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Originally Posted by VesperValveto

SNIP

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I can't begin to imagine the overwhelming negative mindset and personality you possess. You want to hold people up to your personal standards? Form your own group via Party Finder. You joined a random group where anyone, including those leveling and new to the instance, can join. You don't get to decide, or for that matter the group, if those joining should watch the cut-scenes or not. That isn't your call, though I am sorry you feel that it is. It isn't vote-kicking worthy and you are more then deserving enough of being reported for doing so.

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Originally Posted by VesperValveto

How nice, you posted a generic GM response that in no way supports your stance on this. Better luck next time.

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It supported rather exactly that misuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment and therefore punishable, which supports my stance rather perfectly. Perhaps you were confused because your head is too deeply lodged in your third point of contact?

You don't have the right to decide that somebody else is "wrong" for playing the game the way it was intended to be experienced. Ejecting someone from content for playing that content the way it was intended to be experienced is not "working as intended". There are far, far better places to speedrun for rewards if that is what you want to do. The cutscenes are part of the dungeon and skipping them is optional. You do not have the privilege to make that decision for others.

The cold hard truth here is it is definitely the lesser of all evils. Some other suggestions are most likely to ruin chances a new player even gets to clear the dungeon:
1) Separate queues for those who want SR with lesser rewards. (Have fun waiting for hours as a dps if it's your first time)
2) Unskippable cutscenes of any form (good luck if you get a griefer who hates cutscene watchers and decides to just sit in the cutscene and not do anything, effectively locking the entire party in oblivion)

There is absolutely no reason to be kicked simply for watching cutscenes. What you saw happen was either a fringe incident or you left out some parts purposely (was the player in 1 cutscene for longer than 5 mins? Did the player respond to anything the party said?)

People's negative responses to those in Duty Finder who just want to watch the cutscenes (as they were originally intended) are really just the dregs of the FFXIV community. If you don't have time for someone to either run through a dungeon in a NON-speedrun or to let them experience cutscenes for the first time, then do everyone a favor and make a Party Finder group for your needs. Otherwise, recognize that the DF is for everyone, not just people who are pros or bored "let's get this over with" types. Be sensitive to that, have some compassion. I know, it's clearly difficult for you, but just take an ounce of effort that you'd usually put towards saying how l33t you are and try to see it from other people's points of view.

Let people enjoy the game.... forcing people to watch fragmented cutscenes by themselves in an inn is really selfish. Not to mention a lot of the 8-24 man cutscenes look cooler when you're actually IN the dungeon because you also get to see your entire team, which you can't at the inn.

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If that person is a tank, then those seven people need to have their time wasted while they sit there and wait for him to watch cutscenes. Even if the person is not a tank, seven people should not need to sit around and wait for one selfish person.

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CM/Prae doesn't need two tanks for anything. Honestly, if 7 vets are running it, it arguably doesn't even need one tank.

Also, regarding what the roulettes were "meant" for:

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Main Scenario

Castrum Meridianum
Praetorium

This is a way to reward players for helping others to complete the main scenario.

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Quoted from the 12/3/13 live letter that you linked. GG?

lets face it, nothing can really be done to alleviate the problems vote kick is causing.

SE will be left with 3 solutions.

1 - remove kick option which opens up the game to afk trolls again.
2 - leave it in and the community uses it for what they want.
3 - suspending/banning people for abusing it but this would account for probably around 60-70% of its player base meaning losing a shit load of revenue.

If people are calling for 3 no company in there right mind would go for it.

Let these threads rest were stuck with it or remove cut scenes from dungeons/trials and just have to bear with watching them in the inn.

I totally agree its a dick move for kicking people because there watching cut scenes but realistically what can be done.

So, if OP start the fight earlier, he would not be kicked?
Now as we know kick abuse might be happened successfully, at the moment don't wait for the CS watchers would be the most considerate action?

TBH for a first timer what the fun fighting boss with 7 seriouly-over-geared members?!?! ^^;
The REAL first time fun only happens when everyone in the appropriate iLV.

I mean, to be considerate, everyone should slow down the battle, hold thier skills/spells,
wait the first timer to use his skills on boss, let the boss hit him as well,
let the first timer get the real feeling of he is fighting the boss.
Most important, remember leave the final hit for the first timer.
I believe by doing these, first timers can be more enjoy the fighting.^^

"seriouly-over-geared members" have other places to go in first place and don't waste their time there.

Farming tomes, Brayflox.
Farming gear, T5.

Being them in main scenario roulette is maybe because they want kill some time, as long as in same time they can farm twice or trice the roulette bonus. So no reason being mad at CS watchers. IMHO

When I see someone new watching CS I just don't enter boss area until he is done. Group can enjoy fighting bosses with only 2 dps/1 healer.