PSA Regarding Big Pulls

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Originally Posted by Titor

As a healer I have no problem with, and even like, big pulls. It's so boring to toss one heal off, afk for 30 seconds until another heal is needed.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHoNWwhzh3M

BOOOOOOOOO!

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Though, as a PLD, I would much rather have a BRD/??? than a ???/??? for ballad. WARs can prolly survive without a BRD.

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Paladins don't need a bard to survive. I'd like to know the reason you think that.

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Originally Posted by Shaone

PSA regarding Monk

I've been noticing more and more people claiming that Monk can't do good AoE. Yet the damage a good Monk can put out in AoE situations where there are 3 minutes of downtime between pulls, such as Brayflox exceeds other jobs except for Black Mage (and the difference there is not as much as you would think, if Foe Requiem is not available). If you're not a monk, don't just assume that we can't handle big pulls.

However, there are many Monks who have been told their job can't AoE well, and thus never realised their true potential.


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This guy gets it.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

This guy gets it.

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Yes. I've seen monks rock this better then a mediocre BLM.

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Originally Posted by infinitezero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHoNWwhzh3M

BOOOOOOOOO!




Paladins don't need a bard to survive. I'd like to know the reason you think that.

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Never said PLD "need" ballad, just that's it's nice to have.

The only "real" AoE tool PLD has is Flash. RoH doesn't count. So, logically, to take and maintain aggro on a bunch of mobs would require massive use of flash to keep aggro from Flare-ing BLM. Flash is hard on PLD limited MP pool. Ballad helps by allowing the PLD to non-stop spam flash, or at least slow the use of MP so the AoEers can kill the mobs before the PLD runs out of MP.

And don't even tell me to tab target and switch targets during an aggro combo. That doesn't work when fighting 10+ mobs, sorry.

I've done fine with no BRDs countless times. Just that I'll have to use Riot Blade a couple times to get more MP for flash.

ATTN:

we have a back seat tank in the building

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Never said PLD "need" ballad, just that's it's nice to have.

The only "real" AoE tool PLD has is Flash. RoH doesn't count. So, logically, to take and maintain aggro on a bunch of mobs would require massive use of flash to keep aggro from Flare-ing BLM. Flash is hard on PLD limited MP pool. Ballad helps by allowing the PLD to non-stop spam flash, or at least slow the use of MP so the AoEers can kill the mobs before the PLD runs out of MP.

And don't even tell me to tab target and switch targets during an aggro combo. That doesn't work when fighting 10+ mobs, sorry.

I've done fine with no BRDs countless times. Just that I'll have to use Riot Blade a couple times to get more MP for flash.

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Your line from before "WARs can prolly survive without a BRD." makes the implication that paladins can't. Another thing, don't just assume what I was gonna tell you, and don't take an honest question so damn personally. Was just gonna say "Riot Blade". You'd be better off with your bard focusing on dealing damage or buffing the black mage rather than regenerating your MP when you have an ability that allows you to do it yourself.

NOTE: None of the above is a personal attack on you, so relax.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

ATTN:

we have a back seat tank in the building

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ATTN: We have a "Like" fisher contributing nothing to the discussion in the building.

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Originally Posted by infinitezero

ATTN: We have a "Like" fisher contributing nothing to the discussion in the building.

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is that a thing? who the hell cares about likes on this page? this isnt facebook lol

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Originally Posted by alhandra

is that a thing? who the hell cares about likes on this page? this isnt facebook lol

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Who the hell cares about likes on Facebook? lol

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Originally Posted by infinitezero

Your line from before "WARs can prolly survive without a BRD." makes the implication that paladins can't. Another thing, don't just assume what I was gonna tell you, and don't take an honest question so damn personally. Was just gonna say "Riot Blade". You'd be better off with your bard focusing on dealing damage or buffing the black mage rather than regenerating your MP when you have an ability that allows you to do it yourself.

NOTE: None of the above is a personal attack on you, so relax.




ATTN: We have a "Like" fisher contributing nothing to the discussion in the building.

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Wasn't my intention. Professional wordsmith I am not. And I didn't take it as a personal attack, I was defending my point.

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Originally Posted by Zhi

If you need 3 minutes in between pulls then either there's clearly not enough aoe damage or you dps bosses slow

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By downtime I just mean "non-mega-aoe-time"... like boss fights and setting up next pull... 3 mins between pulls is reasonable if there is just 1 pull per boss, and you can still get sub-5 min for first 2 Bray bosses, since the PB timer is up when you enter, and has time to charge during boss fight and getting next pull set up and building stacks.

So, just to be clear, 3 minutes is the Perfect Balance timer, this is the peak damage point of a Monk AoE rotation, and is the same timer as Convert on Black Mage, which is kinda necessary for that job to maximise AoE damage too.

(edit: the biggest mistake for Monk AoE is to build stacks with Perfect Balance->Rockbreaker, which not only massively gimps the damage, and also reduces the number you can perform while is up... so Monks, if you want to go longer, harder and have a more satisfying climax, then I suggest getting your Rocks off once you are fully greased up.... foreplay is important, don't leave it out)

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Never said PLD "need" ballad, just that's it's nice to have.

The only "real" AoE tool PLD has is Flash. RoH doesn't count. So, logically, to take and maintain aggro on a bunch of mobs would require massive use of flash to keep aggro from Flare-ing BLM. Flash is hard on PLD limited MP pool. Ballad helps by allowing the PLD to non-stop spam flash, or at least slow the use of MP so the AoEers can kill the mobs before the PLD runs out of MP.

And don't even tell me to tab target and switch targets during an aggro combo. That doesn't work when fighting 10+ mobs, sorry.

I've done fine with no BRDs countless times. Just that I'll have to use Riot Blade a couple times to get more MP for flash.

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Either tell the BLM to Aetherial Manipulation to you when they get aggro, or just have them close to you and use Cover on them when they pull aggro. Having a BRD lose DPS so you can Flash spam (laaaaaaaazy) defeats the purpose of pulling more monsters so you can finish faster. This is a prime example of the point I'm trying to make that doing big pulls inefficiently for the sake of doing big pulls make the run slower.

Until Yoshida gives MNK the ability to suckerpunch the TP out of mobs, we won't be able to keep up with BLM in an AoE-fest.

Make no mistake: the damage is extraordinary while it lasts. But between Quelling Strike and just-add-water MP regeneration, BLM will always have an edge on these speedruns.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Either tell the BLM to Aetherial Manipulation to you when they get aggro, or just have them close to you and use Cover on them when they pull aggro. Having a BRD lose DPS so you can Flash spam (laaaaaaaazy) defeats the purpose of pulling more monsters so you can finish faster. This is a prime example of the point I'm trying to make that doing big pulls inefficiently for the sake of doing big pulls make the run slower.

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By maybe 5 minutes. This is the problem I have with this community, "why take 10 minutes when you can take 5? 10 minutes is so fail!" So what if the BRD needs to ballad me, they don't care. Not once have I ever been grouped with a BRD that said "lolBallad". Some of them actually popped ballad without being asked on their own accord. And I can live without it. If they keep ballad up, the run may take a few minutes longer, who cares, it's not the end of the world. Everyone is in such a rush.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

By maybe 5 minutes. This is the problem I have with this community, "why take 10 minutes when you can take 5? 10 minutes is so fail!" So what if the BRD needs to ballad me, they don't care. Not once have I ever been grouped with a BRD that said "lolBallad". Some of them actually popped ballad without being asked on their own accord. And I can live without it. If they keep ballad up, the run may take a few minutes longer, who cares, it's not the end of the world. Everyone is in such a rush.

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Because speed is the entire point of big pulls. The sword cuts both ways; what's stopping you from pulling less mobs? You pulling more monsters and then saying that everyone is in a rush is quite the self-contradictory statement.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Never said PLD "need" ballad, just that's it's nice to have

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I had a pld who complained about not being able to hold aoe threat once, and would insist the bard use Mage but still lost threat. We kicked him, I decided to tank as a pld and told the bard to play foes instead. I had no trouble holding aoe threat, you completely drain your mp pool with flashes, pop FoF and CDs and they will be dead before you lose threat. So from now on if a pld blames his job and he has equal or better gear than the dps I just laugh, it's hogwash.

Playing Mage song is nerfing a dps to carry a pld who can't do his job. I say this as a pld who can do his job.

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Originally Posted by Odett

most notably MNK.

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Must be playing with some real crappy MNKs. I have no problem with any size pull, In fact I prefer larger pulls. Either way TP is going to get used up might as well use it all on one big group. What sucks is when a tank wants to do little pulls and waste my TP. Now if we have a healer that probably cant handle it then i'll say something. But most parties I do the tank ask what size pulls.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

I had a pld who complained about not being able to hold aoe threat once, and would insist the bard use Mage but still lost threat. We kicked him, I decided to tank as a pld and told the bard to play foes instead. I had no trouble holding aoe threat, you completely drain your mp pool with flashes, pop FoF and CDs and they will be dead before you lose threat. So from now on if a pld blames his job and he has equal or better gear than the dps I just laugh, it's hogwash.

Playing Mage song is nerfing a dps to carry a pld who can't do his job. I say this as a pld who can do his job.

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This sounds incredibly familiar.. was I the BRD lol, I recalled few weeks back there was a PLD who lost threat to your first flare and you went PLD after.

Anyways I have ran BFSR as a BRD, PLD and WHM.

I don't think it's difficult for PLD to hold threat in BFSR thou. The first big pull, by depleting your MP pool with flash and DoTs from Circle of Scorn, it should hold threat until all of them are dead if your DPS are good enough. For safety purposes I do a couple of Riot Blade and flash 2 more times if it's not dead by then. IF it's still not all dead, it should be 1-3 mobs left which I could just rotate RoH. But if it's more than that.. I think the DPS sucks lol (which are hardly the case).

If the tank is a PLD and the healer is a WHM, maybe they could do some communication prior to big pulls. When I play WHM, I like it when the PLD pulls and use HG first, allowing me to run in and swiftcast holy. That 4s AoE stun gives the PLD a relaxing time to spam Flash, and further holy spam's stuns helped to ease his job for the opening parts.


In a good group, for the first pull I could just stay entirely in Cleric Stance and holy spam and Benediction is all I need. Maybe a Cure 2 or two towards the end.