Level cap increase every 1-2 years.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

So everyone that doesn't want a level cap increase wants to just smack into a wall of progression at level 50? This doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

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no we just feel that 1-2 years is too soon. look we are almost a year into game and only the most hardcore have capped every class. if you do not have every class to 36 much less 50 then you haven't experienced everything in game much less hit a wall. a wall means there is nothing left to do and you cannot proceed farther. guess what? you are not there.

i voted for the first option, but i did so knowing as well as everyone else that the cap would be increased eventually. i just want to experience everything the game has to offer before the cap gets raised. with a 1 year raise that gets rid of the working for a long time getting one piece of gear because you know in less than 12 months after it is put in place it is worthless.

i want some long term goals and knowing cap will increase soon that makes the only goal getting as many classes to that cap as i can. cap increases should be done on a case by case basis not on a set time frame.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i want some long term goals and knowing cap will increase soon that makes the only goal getting as many classes to that cap as i can. cap increases should be done on a case by case basis not on a set time frame.

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See, here's the problem with long-term goals in MMOs these days. If you've been keeping up with FFXI lately, you'd know how a lot of people are complaining about relic and mythic weapons being not as effective as empyrean weapons, yet relic and mythic weapons take a lot longer to obtain and upgrade. If something takes way too much time to obtain, raising a cap and losing it's effectiveness is much more infuriating. Not the other way around. It's best to avoid replaceable achievements as long-term goals. Levels in classes are not replaceable achievements, but equipment is always replaceable.

I admit I am a bit baffled by the notion that working with a defined cap with no plans to increase it somehow makes for stale content, or somehow makes it impossible for new content. We saw new mobs and new content with every expansion for FFXI. And also sometimes just in non-expansion updates.

FFXI had the level 75 cap from... what? April of 2004 to roughly July of 2010? 6 years of playing at level 75, They added tons of new content that was worth doing, and I don't really recall any of the older content or gear becoming obsolete or if it happened it was in such a small percentage of items that it was not exactly game breaking.

I had a broad mix of gear from end game that was implemented relatively early in the game's lifecycle to gear that was added near the end of the game's lifecycle, and I almost never came across a piece that completely borked a previous piece of gear. AF+1, AF2, Byakko's Haidate, Kirin's Osode, Homam gear, Salvage gear, Askar/Goliard, Campaign gear, Cursed gear, ZNM gear... sure something may come along that replaced something else, but it rarely negated the previous item's usefulness.

There were a few items that required you to be aggressively hardcore, but those items were mostly perk items, great to have but not absolutely necessary.

I was still doing sky pretty regularly up until I decided the game had lost its joie de virve. Not necessarily for things that I needed personally, but because the content was fun to do, it still provided an enjoyable challenge and there were people I knew who could use the rewards from it.

I would like a lvl cap of 99 and exp can still be gain after and put into some sort of stat system like XI merit system or whatever. Rather not have lvl cap raised every 1-2 years then eventually I fear if not done right, gonna end up like another WoW, I dont want to own everything in one hit.

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Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel

See, here's the problem with long-term goals in MMOs these days. If you've been keeping up with FFXI lately, you'd know how a lot of people are complaining about relic and mythic weapons being not as effective as empyrean weapons, yet relic and mythic weapons take a lot longer to obtain and upgrade. If something takes way too much time to obtain, raising a cap and losing it's effectiveness is much more infuriating. Not the other way around. It's best to avoid replaceable achievements as long-term goals. Levels in classes are not replaceable achievements, but equipment is always replaceable.

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that's because people enjoyed questing to get that rare and hard to obtain gear. if the new gear was another long time gear to acquire there would be more hype for it. it was looked down upon because they met the long term goals and then it took no time to get the replacement. see people loved the long term goal/ hard to get item, but didn't like the anybody can get bs ones that replaced them. that is where the problem lied. it wasn't that they were replaced, but how they were replaced.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

that's because people enjoyed questing to get that rare and hard to obtain gear. if the new gear was another long time gear to acquire there would be more hype for it. it was looked down upon because they met the long term goals and then it took no time to get the replacement. see people loved the long term goal/ hard to get item, but didn't like the anybody can get bs ones that replaced them. that is where the problem lied. it wasn't that they were replaced, but how they were replaced.

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not rly most ppl i asked before quiting they said the plain fact that they would raise the cap to 99 and make everything before it useless was what rly irked them

but lets just face it SE purposly fucked up 11 just to get ppl to try 14

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Originally Posted by danny52844

not rly most ppl i asked before quiting they said the plain fact that they would raise the cap to 99 and make everything before it useless was what rly irked them

but lets just face it SE purposly fucked up 11 just to get ppl to try 14

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I know lots of people disappointed with the lvl cap raise too.

I quit long before that, but im sure if I still played I would dislike it.

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Originally Posted by danny52844

not rly most ppl i asked before quiting they said the plain fact that they would raise the cap to 99 and make everything before it useless was what rly irked them

but lets just face it SE purposly fucked up 11 just to get ppl to try 14

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i asked the same question from people i got basically the same answer except it was they made it to where gear they took forever getting was replaced by something that took basically no time getting. in other words the people that were willing to work hard to get things were forgotten. that's also why people say they will not go back to xi because it is not the same game. it no longer rewards hard work and rewards lazy play.

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Originally Posted by Jericho

I'm not sure if there is a thread about this yet, but I've been slightly irked ever since I heard that Yoshi plans to raise the level cap every 1-2 years. Before really going into any sort of pro's and con's thread, and before finding out if there already is one, I am just curious to see what everyones feelings on this is. So, here's a simple poll.

I personally am against level cap increases, I'd prefer a solid landing zone to reach once the game is good to go (be it another 75, or an 80, or even a 100) to stick to for the duration of the game's glory years, with expansion content remaining balanced to previous content.

Like this post if you prefer a static level cap.

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If he is going to do this, this gamer is long over due on one period, period, and again period. How long did it take for WOW, FFXI, LORO to get level cap increases? does not matter what the state if the game was in at release, I expect a level cap increase this year, there should be one this year, that is it period. I do not care if he does it every one to two years but he has to do one now, during this year. Do what the old team is doing, I do not understand what they got rid of the complete old team, (I hope the did not). Takanaka was the producer/directer before him, but they could not have got rid of all the other staff am I correct? someone clarify for me please.

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Originally Posted by Etienn

If he is going to do this, this gamer is long over due on one period, period, and again period. How long did it take for WOW, FFXI, LORO to get level cap increases? does not matter what the state if the game was in at release, I expect a level cap increase this year, there should be one this year, that is it period. I do not gear if he does it every one to two years but he has to do one now, during this year. Do what the old team is doing, I do not understand what they got rid of the complete old team, (I hope the did not). Takanaka was the producer/directer before him, but they could not have got rid of all the other staff am I correct? someone clarify for me please.

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do you have all r50's in every class? if not then no you don't need one period, period, and again period. you haven't even finished the stuff already in place and already wanting more.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

do you have all r50's in every class? if not then no you don't need one period, period, and again period. you haven't even finished the stuff already in place and already wanting more.

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LOTRO got a cap increase in less than a year or about a year, ffxi got one in about a year. There has to be on now, that is how all MMORPG's work, sir. No I do not rush, no I do not have a 50 job, yes there are people with 50 jobs though, there are people all capped. Point is there needs to be a increase this year, that is it.

How is this me wanting more? I know how mmorpg's work, PS my first MMORPG was everquest, I was in my teens when it came out.

I think I've only seen one post where someone was in favor of keeping the cap at 50.

That isn't what most of us are asking for I think. We just want them to decide on a cap, get us to the cap in a timely manner, and then gear the rest of the endgame content around challenges that will still be challenges 3 expansions down the road.

In a game like WoW, or Lotro, where one character is locked into one class, the only way for them to add new content is to raise the level cap.

The dynamic of the game is you hit the level cap, and then you grind raids for your gear set. Once you have the set You can maybe continue grinding for those impossibly rare weapons and accessories but that's it. They can't really add new raids with different sets. so they raise the level cap, give you higher level raids with higher level sets for you to grind.

The dynamic for a game like FFXI is once you hit the level cap, your linear progression stops and now your character grows outwardly, you level new jobs, you get better gear, some of that gear might inspire you to level a different job, you need to level more subjobs to round out the jobs you have, you gather key items that are beneficial at various stages of growth.

Saying I have not finished stuff ALREADY IN place is ridiculous in the fact that there is only grinding, and getting nm gear to do, and some shitty quest (story line), also some half complete DOL/DOH quests since they fired the old team they did not get to add anymore quests, BRAVO INDEED SE!!!!

Oh and camping HNM's that are not a challenge in the game to the point i REFUSE to get my puglist to 50 so I can have my dodore body and say I actually "earned it".

FFXI got a level cap increase about a year in... and then it didn't get a level cap increase for 6 years. We aren't arguing for them to leave the cap at 50. we are arguing against the idea that they should raise the cap every year or so.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

FFXI got a level cap increase about a year in... and then it didn't get a level cap increase for 6 years. We aren't arguing for them to leave the cap at 50. we are arguing against the idea that they should raise the cap every year or so.

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So am I.. I do not like that fact that he said 1-2 years. the game has been a year in regardless of the set backs and deserves one soon. I do not really care what is done after that, not our fault they fired takanaka, and the new team ahs to fix UI, and every single bug before releasing the true content.

You still aren't getting the point of the discussion etienn... we aren't arguing for new content or not... we are debating about the whole structure of the game. If they plan on a level cap increase every year the game will most likely fall into the WoW mold of every new expansion making the previous one worthless. Those of us who were fans of ffxi are not in favor of this approach.

We want a designated end game level, and then for the rest of the new endgame content to maintain that level, so nothing ever really becomes obsolete, in the sense that there will always be players who will see value in doing the whole gamut of endgame events.

Here is the bubble burster.

Some day, all MMORPGs will be unplugged. These games will not last forever. None of your work in these games matter apart from the fun you have right now.

So, using the argument "all hard work goes to waste" for level cap increases is completely moot. Enjoy the new content while you still can. There's much more constructive things you could be doing with your life that will actually have an impact rather than sitting down playing a game for several hours a day. So, enjoy the game and fresh new content rather than bitching about "hard work wasted".

If you couldn't guess, I'm with the "increase cap" option.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Here is the bubble burster.

Some day, all MMORPGs will be unplugged. These games will not last forever. None of your work in these games matter apart from the fun you have right now.

So, using the argument "all hard work goes to waste" for level cap increases is completely moot. Enjoy the new content while you still can. There's much more constructive things you could be doing with your life that will actually have an impact rather than sitting down playing a game for several hours a day. So, enjoy the game and fresh new content rather than bitching about "hard work wasted".

If you couldn't guess, I'm with the "increase cap" option.

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to counter that most games are unplugged because ppl quit on thier own will and they choose to waste all of that time while raising the lv cap is the company saying fuck u and u and u and u we dont care if u like ur items or not were wasting it

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Here is the bubble burster.

Some day, all MMORPGs will be unplugged. These games will not last forever. None of your work in these games matter apart from the fun you have right now.

So, using the argument "all hard work goes to waste" for level cap increases is completely moot. Enjoy the new content while you still can. There's much more constructive things you could be doing with your life that will actually have an impact rather than sitting down playing a game for several hours a day. So, enjoy the game and fresh new content rather than bitching about "hard work wasted".

If you couldn't guess, I'm with the "increase cap" option.

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Eventually it will end, so what is the point?

How nihilistic.

For 6 years I played FFXI. I left for 6 months when lotro came out, but after 6 months of lotro I came back to FFXI.

I doubt anyone in WoW, Lotro, Rift, whatever felt the same connection to any one of their character as people in FFXI felt with theirs.

Yeah it can't last forever, but FFXI lasted for 6 years before they actively destroyed it. Lotro, for me, lasted for 6 months, WoW lasted for about 2 weeks.

The level cap should not stay at 50. It's not Final Fantasy-esque. Lv.99 or Lv.100

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Originally Posted by danny52844

to counter that most games are unplugged because ppl quit on thier own will and they choose to waste all of that time while raising the lv cap is the company saying fuck u and u and u and u we dont care if u like ur items or not were wasting it

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I'm not sure how that countered my argument in the slightest. It's not them saying fuck you, it's giving you something new to do. Most people, if not given something new to do, are going to end up getting bored with something. I do not want to sit at level cap for several years doing a new dungeon every now and then. These games are to develop your characters and to explore new areas. Getting a hemorrhoid because the company decided to take away the fact that you're god almighty with your overpowered gear and giving you a new adventure to get to that point again is not a good approach to any situation.

It's not gonna happen anyway. Level cap is going to be raised no matter how many people put up a stink. It's ridiculous not to.

I just have the feeling that most of the people arguing against a static end game never really played FFXI. Or atleast not to the degree that those of is in favor of one did.

Ferth, I'm on the same page as you. People saying it's ridiculous not to raise the level cap and that it's necessary for the game to progress obviously didn't get the memo about FFXI. The static model works, implying it doesn't is just stupid. FFXI proved it does, end of story.

People can argue that raising the level cap every once in a while is better. That's just their opinion. But nobody can argue that a static level cap with content/story based progression doesn't work. It does, and that's a fact.

I played XI. I also played pretty much every other FF game, as well as many other MMOs.

In fact, the only reason I am playing XIV is because of my connection with XI. It is my fondness of XI that puts enthusiasm in me that this game will get better which is why I continue to play it.

That fondness for XI is absolutely no excuse to not raise level cap. While many of you complain that it ruined the game, there are many others who say otherwise. While you guys are moaning and complaining about the game being ruined and losing your items and moving on, there are others who found new adventures, made new memories with friends, and achieved even more.

It's not about what you earned.

It's not about how good you are or how much time you spent.

It's about how you enjoyed the game and how you spent your time playing it. You are a fool to think a cap raise ruined the game. Continue on with your friends and make new memories and gain something else to be nostalgic about rather than piss in your own cereal and remain cynical that things aren't going your way.

Things change people move on. Enjoy the changes and don't shit over it.

I don't think the cap raise ruined the game. Abyssea ruined the game. But they could have easily added new content without raising the cap, they did it just fine for 6 years.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I don't think the cap raise ruined the game. Abyssea ruined the game. But they could have easily added new content without raising the cap, they did it just fine for 6 years.

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And things changed. Tough titty. If everything remained the same nobody would get anywhere. There are still many people who enjoy Abyssea.

If I followed that logic and had it my way we'd still only have Super Nintendo and you wouldn't even know an MMO would exist.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

I'm not sure how that countered my argument in the slightest. It's not them saying fuck you, it's giving you something new to do. Most people, if not given something new to do, are going to end up getting bored with something. I do not want to sit at level cap for several years doing a new dungeon every now and then. These games are to develop your characters and to explore new areas. Getting a hemorrhoid because the company decided to take away the fact that you're god almighty with your overpowered gear and giving you a new adventure to get to that point again is not a good approach to any situation.

It's not gonna happen anyway. Level cap is going to be raised no matter how many people put up a stink. It's ridiculous not to.

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i just do not under stand ur arguement
WEH HVE TO RISE LV TU GET MURE TO DO right?
why do u have to lv up then add dungoens why not just add more dungeons and let us keep doing the old 1s that still give good rewards?

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Originally Posted by danny52844

i just do not under stand ur arguement
WEH HVE TO RISE LV TU GET MURE TO DO right?
why do u have to lv up then add dungoens why not just add more dungeons and let us keep doing the old 1s that still give good rewards?

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I don't know if English is not your primary language or if you are just being a lazy typer or what but seriously get a dictionary and learn to type better or don't post at all. That was the most painful thing I've read in over a month.

The only thing I could decipher from that was that you could not understand my argument. My argument is that people spend ridiculous amounts of time on something that in the end doesn't matter anyway, but the premise of playing a game is to enjoy the game and the fondness that comes from playing a game is the experience you've had and the nostalgia that might become present after playing said game. When people complain about fresh new content to keep a game alive and get more people interested, because they've "lost what they've worked so hard for", that's not a very good argument. Things change. It's the premise of life. It's the premise of anything getting remotely better or improved. Enjoy what you have NOW and what you've DONE and try to enjoy what might come in the future rather than freaking out over it because hey guess what that's life.

Again, Super Nintendo argument above. If I had it my way like some of you veteran FFXI players are arguing, you wouldn't even have MMOs. You'd be stuck with SNES.

You seem to think I am complaining. I'm not. I don't enjoy the changes they implemented in FFXI so I don't play it anymore. But I still did play it for 6 years, and the reason I kept playing it was my attachment to the experience I had in the game, when that experience turned into something I didn't enjoy I moved on. No MMO has captivated my attention like FFXI did. And yeah, it was a bummer when it changed in a way I didn't appreciate. If people can play it and enjoy it, more power to them.

I enjoyed what it used to be, and I'd like to experience something on the same scale. If I can play FFXIV for another 6 years and get even close to the same experience I had in FFXI I'd be happy.

If they opt for the WoW method chances are I will lose interest pretty quick. And then I will move on. I don't think I am the only one who feels that way. And I'd like the dev team to take my opinions and the opinions of others who feel the same way I do into consideration.

Considering this whole debate is based on an offhand remark without any solid planning behind it yet, it seems like a good time to let our voices be heard. So that the dev team can explore all possibilities when it gets to that point. Whatever they decide won't take away the experiences I've had so far, just like the introduction of abyssea in FFXI didn't negate the experiences I had in FFXI, it didn't negate the friendships I made or the things I accomplished in terms of how I remember them or enjoyed being a part of them...

But the fact remains now that alot of that content they spent years introducing to the game became alot less worthwhile. When the cap was static some people may have outgrown certain aspects but new players could still do older events and benefit from them, older players could still enjoy the content and the challenges involved older content, and everyone could enjoy the new content and challenges as well. Nothing stagnated except for individual taste.

With a constantly increasing level cap, with each new cap increase the previous content loses value, the veteran players who ground it to hell won't play it again, but the new players will more than likely skip right by it to get to whatever is going on for the current cap.

So instead of the experiences building and expanding on the experiences before them, each one gets replaced by whatever comes next.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

And things changed. Tough titty. If everything remained the same nobody would get anywhere. There are still many people who enjoy Abyssea.

If I followed that logic and had it my way we'd still only have Super Nintendo and you wouldn't even know an MMO would exist.

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I think the point Ferth is making is you don't need to raise the level cap and make old content redundant in order to bring in changes and make things fresh. FFXI proved that and it's a view that can't just be dismissed. This model saw FFXI through the best of her years with the most subscription numbers and player satisfaction. The real debate is which system is better, not why one fails, because neither really do.

Also the Nintendo analogy doesn't work. Levels aren't like hardware. They don't draw clear boundaries on what is possible and what is not.

And Abyssea itself really has nothing to do with this thread or the level cap increase.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Also the Nintendo analogy doesn't work. Levels aren't like hardware. They don't draw clear boundaries on what is possible and what is not.

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You clearly didn't understand it.

The point was, I personally feel some of the best and most memorable moments in gaming happened on the Super Nintendo. But yet, opposed to that, some of my favourite moments in gaming and some of my favourite games came beyond the Super Nintendo, on the N64, Playstation, and Gamecube. While I might be sour that SNES was where it's at, there's still great things to be had even when everything changed and didn't initially seem better.

Edit: And if we stuck with the same thing, we would have never experienced those new moments.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

You clearly didn't understand it.

The point was, I personally feel some of the best and most memorable moments in gaming happened on the Super Nintendo. But yet, opposed to that, some of my favourite moments in gaming and some of my favourite games came beyond the Super Nintendo, on the N64, Playstation, and Gamecube. While I might be sour that SNES was where it's at, there's still great things to be had even when everything changed and didn't initially seem better.

Edit: And if we stuck with the same thing, we would have never experienced those new moments.

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There's a good reason I misunderstood your analogy then. Staying the same level =/= stuck with the same thing, which has been the whole point of our side of the debate.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

There's a good reason I misunderstood your analogy then. Staying the same level =/= stuck with the same thing, which has been the whole point of our side of the debate.

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You are stuck with the same thing.

Level generally represents several things. Progress, power, achievements, whatever. So, tell me what the purpose of having one level (let's say 75), where every subsequent expansion gives new dungeons and gear that gets more powerful and allows for even more content? It's like the WoW theory (expansion aside) where you have one set of gear that is great and then a patch comes that adds a new dungeon and you get even greater gear that makes the old gear you worked for seem ridiculous. The difference in strength between 74 and 75 might seem like 74 and 90 in some cases.

But okay let's take the assumption that all new dungeon content and items aren't actually stronger it's just fresh and looks different.

Then what's the point of that besides acquiring said items? Your character doesn't develop anymore. All you receive is in theory useless.

New levels brings new items, new means for character development, new places to explore. And, let's not forget in this case Yoshida said 1-2 years. Abyssea came many years after a solid level cap. 1-2 years is not that much time in comparison, so everything you "worked so hard for" would not be a fraction as bad as in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

I don't know if English is not your primary language or if you are just being a lazy typer or what but seriously get a dictionary and learn to type better or don't post at all. That was the most painful thing I've read in over a month.

The only thing I could decipher from that was that you could not understand my argument. My argument is that people spend ridiculous amounts of time on something that in the end doesn't matter anyway, but the premise of playing a game is to enjoy the game and the fondness that comes from playing a game is the experience you've had and the nostalgia that might become present after playing said game. When people complain about fresh new content to keep a game alive and get more people interested, because they've "lost what they've worked so hard for", that's not a very good argument. Things change. It's the premise of life. It's the premise of anything getting remotely better or improved. Enjoy what you have NOW and what you've DONE and try to enjoy what might come in the future rather than freaking out over it because hey guess what that's life.

Again, Super Nintendo argument above. If I had it my way like some of you veteran FFXI players are arguing, you wouldn't even have MMOs. You'd be stuck with SNES.

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ur entire arguement is herp derp but if we dont riase the lv cap its impossible to add new stuff
is that srsly what u think?

Except your character DOES still develop. Since you aren't stuck with one job/class for your one character you are encouraged to develop into new jobs.

your statement that all the new items being revisions of the old and therefore useless is nearly as specious as your argument about how we may as well be stuck playing SNES.

Especially in the face of all you said about the experiences, the friends and the acts of achieving them.

You already made the argument that it was ephemeral so we should just deal with it... but now it's not just ephemeral but useless?

If you are in favor of an ever increasing level cap, that's fine. But if the best you can do to argue for it is to say that everything changes eventually so deal with it, and then to say that the changes are useless anyway we may as well just quit now, then you aren't really defending the point.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Except your character DOES still develop. Since you aren't stuck with one job/class for your one character you are encouraged to develop into new jobs.

your statement that all the new items being revisions of the old and therefore useless is nearly as specious as your argument about how we may as well be stuck playing SNES.

Especially in the face of all you said about the experiences, the friends and the acts of achieving them.

You already made the argument that it was ephemeral so we should just deal with it... but now it's not just ephemeral but useless?

If you are in favor of an ever increasing level cap, that's fine. But if the best you can do to argue for it is to say that everything changes eventually so deal with it, and then to say that the changes are useless anyway we may as well just quit now, then you aren't really defending the point.

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Given the fact that you did not understand any point or analogy that I made I'm just going to stop arguing about it and assume I am subconciously speaking in German or something.

I'll make one final statement in regard to what you said and it strictly having to do with this game. As it currently stands, getting to 50 is not an achievement whatsoever. In fact, I almost feel like getting to 50 on all job classes is probably getting to level cap in early XI on two or three. In regard to that, there is no room to level other classes. I'm hardly even trying half the time and I'm leveling faster than the wind blows, and there are tons of people who already have all 50s. At this rate, if they do what you say and only have a static cap, they'd better make the level 99 and be RIDICULOUSLY difficult to get to, or make the level cap 255 or something extreme if they keep it up. Because this game would be dead in no time if people relied on a static level. That's in its current status (shit).

Regardless, I'd still rather see new content and new levels and new zones over time. I just feel it seems really retarded when you have a whole world, you get to say 75, it's level cap, new content comes and there's a whole bunch of new 75 areas, new content comes and even more 75 areas, and an expansion or two with even more 75 areas. Everything tailored to 1 endgame level just seems completely ridiculous.

i rather have content advancement leveling up just another grind to the same thing with bigger numbers.

New skills can be introduced without changing the level cap while missions to increase character strength or something like merits can continue character progression. New gear can augment different styles of play within a single class without making old gear redundant or feeling like a 'sidegrade'. Obviously this means old content is still relevant, so the world increases in size, the amount of options you have for gameplay is ever increasing and you aren't forced into participating in that one piece of content you don't like playing (which was my deal with Abyssea, and most of WoW).

You still get your progression. We still get our options and our nice, rich world.
I don't want to see a burning crusade in FFXIV - a huge chunk of content almost completely absent of players apart from those quickly grinding through that level range. Tomes and tomes worth of lore and story, dozens of unique battles; all never to be experienced by those who weren't around when the expansion pack was actually relevant. It's a waste.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Given the fact that you did not understand any point or analogy that I made I'm just going to stop arguing about it and assume I am subconciously speaking in German or something.

I'll make one final statement in regard to what you said and it strictly having to do with this game. As it currently stands, getting to 50 is not an achievement whatsoever. In fact, I almost feel like getting to 50 on all job classes is probably getting to level cap in early XI on two or three. In regard to that, there is no room to level other classes. I'm hardly even trying half the time and I'm leveling faster than the wind blows, and there are tons of people who already have all 50s. At this rate, if they do what you say and only have a static cap, they'd better make the level 99 and be RIDICULOUSLY difficult to get to, or make the level cap 255 or something extreme if they keep it up. Because this game would be dead in no time if people relied on a static level. That's in its current status (shit).

Regardless, I'd still rather see new content and new levels and new zones over time. I just feel it seems really retarded when you have a whole world, you get to say 75, it's level cap, new content comes and there's a whole bunch of new 75 areas, new content comes and even more 75 areas, and an expansion or two with even more 75 areas. Everything tailored to 1 endgame level just seems completely ridiculous.

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I love it. "You're too dumb so I'm not going to argue anymore!"

I understood your analogies rather well... And I recognize that as arguments go, they are smoke and mirrors. All bluster. Blanket statements that sound good but really have no merit.

"Everything is gonna change regardless, so stiff upper lip, bucko!" That argument could be used to argue any point of view on any subject. Its basically argumenting for nihilism. "We're all going to die so nothing we do contains meaning."

But then you tarted the statement up by saying that it's not the quantitative achievement that matters it's the experience you go through to achieve something. Essentially your point was that the gear is a token of the experience it took to get it, so when they raise the level cap though the gear may not be useful anymore you still had the joy of the experience.

Again, that can be used to argue both perspectives.

THEN you go on to comment that with a static level cap nothing truly replaces anything else all the items end up averaging out to the same meta-item so it doesn't matter which item you have, the new or the old, making all the new content in theory useless...

except that theory flies directly in the face of your previous argument about the items being secondary to the experience.

My point was that your opinion is your own, and you are welcome to it. But don't try to argue for it if the best you can do are specious arguments that you yourself are contradicting.