Devs - Is the Zodiac questline going to be nerfed in the near future?

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

The only negative they mentioned is giving a justifiable reason for those that do not want to commit to a grind.

I don't know why you assume I did not read that statement because I did. I read all of it and overall it is nothing but a run around.

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I dunno how long it took you to get your wep but I am still grinding out on week 4 while others have their 5th wep, so I cannot say I appreciate your tone. I only have two reasons to run the grind now, and that's for the 1k trophy and the 3k achievement. If they drop then they drop. :/

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Bottom Line. They've seen a month's worth of feedback. They should be able to tell us if they are planning on increasing the atma drop rate. The faster they provide us with this information the better.

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if they are planning on increasing the atma drop rate, they aren't going to tell players before they do it. that would be highly illogical. there's a reason why the letter from the producer is so vague. they're going to want people to continue working on the zodiac weapon quests while they work on incorporating the countless number of complaints.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

The only negative they mentioned is giving a justifiable reason for those that do not want to commit to a grind.

I don't know why you assume I did not read that statement because I did. I read all of it and overall it is nothing but a run around.

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You stated your opinion and asked for more clarification of mine. Now you finally clarify yours with the opinion of it being nothing but a run around.

What I don't want is some broken/bugged/rushed/unbalanced content released just because you have an Animus waiting. I could care less about the Atma grind as I already committed to it.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

What I don't want is some broken/bugged/rushed/unbalanced content released just because you have an Animus waiting. I could care less about the Atma grind as I already committed to it.

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Which again how is it gonna be any more "broken/bugged/rushed/unbalanced content if they released it tonight and fixed it by 2.28? You didn't clarify that.

You only repeated what was said with no actual insight of what is really going on in their end since it ain't getting any more or any less "balanced" between 2.25 and then. Thus it's a run around.

Sorry that you can't seem to grasp or accept the notion behind that.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

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i'd imagine that they're putting off the next step in the zodiac quest so they don't have the same complaints that they had with atmas. just a guess, but i'd imagine the intense negative feedback on the up in arms quest made SE double think their plan for the entire zodiac weapon quest.

From the live letter I didn't take it as them saying it will be nerfed, just that they are taking future parts due to it
Would I be upset now that my blm has the atma grind over for it to be nerfed? No I wouldn't because it was my choice to do the fates, nobody held me at gunpoint

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Originally Posted by Ramzal

To be clear, I don't mind RNG. What I mind is RNG that's hooked to a mechanic that is dull and I literally have to "distract myself" while doing it to not get bored. I'm sorry but I thought a video game was supposed to serve as a distraction from real life in exchange for entertainment. Not a second job I have to pay for.

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I agree. As much as I hate trying to get groups together to farm T5 because people can't understand the concept on Conflags, I am far more OK with attempting to beat something difficult and dealing with the RNG at the end of that than having to do a million Fates to get not 1 but 12 of these stones just to get the ilvl upgrade.

I got my Atma weapon and am working on the books (which I don't mind at ALL), but I stopped caring about the Atma at all during the actual grind for it. Obviously, the instant I stopped caring is when I started getting them, but whatever. I did the Fates while waiting to do other things; queuing for CT to gear my alts to Coil levels, waiting on Party Finder to get people together to do actual Coil runs, all because I was bored out of my mind waiting. I didn't care about Atma. I had no burning DESIRE to get one. That is probably what they're evaluating. I was not looking forward to it. It is the single most talked about subject on the forum. If you have a weapon quest line for a weapon that can be upgraded, but people either have no interest in it OR people don't have it for whatever reason, they want to find out why.

As I've said in previous threads, the lack of response normally indicates that they're still doing research. At my job, if we are evaluating feedback, we are still analyzing things. There are no ETAs, there are no constant updates because there is uncertainty and you don't want to set false expectations or lead people on. There are far less consequences for silence than making a promise and failing to deliver.

If they were expecting 10% of the populace to have Animus and only 3% have it, that's way below projected expectations.

Myth is the main resource for getting up Atma, but its also the primary currency for a LOT of things, and it isn't easy to get. It may be uncapped, but with SO many things demanding it and causing problems that are hurting the experience of the playerbase (Brayflox HM in DF, quits at last boss...who joins Brayflox In Progress? O_o) and it needs to be looked at.

This will probably affect their future content that is working on a similar concept, so its a very pivotal piece of content. If I saw this amount of backlash, I'd be gathering data as well.

I really do hope they are going to chance the drop rate of it somewhat. I also don't mind working for my gear in any form or shape but fate grinding...Omg, I understand the need to make lower level fates to get populated for new players etc however doing it by boring the hell out of your end game players doesn't seem to be the good way to do it. I have no issues with RNG either if RNG was applied to something other then Fates. I enjoy doing primals or Coil and yes it sucks I don't get my gear from it right away but thats RNG, it happens. Thing is, they are fun to do and thus I don't mind doing them and getting unlucky most of the time. With fates it is the otherway around, I don't find it fun and when it is not fun.. I hate the RNG on it.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Which again how is it gonna be any more "broken/bugged/rushed/unbalanced content if they released it tonight and fixed it by 2.28? You didn't clarify that.

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You want something unfinished released and patched later. Which makes no sense at all.

My Clarification is the same. It's the devs call, they typically do not delay content unless there is something more involved. The talk of re-balancing it is a clear indication it is not ready for the public.

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Originally Posted by rhemi1

The book portion isn't as bad if you think about it in individual books. You can get 500 myth a day just by doing your roulettes, so even if you did nothing but those and then logged out, you could get a book in 3 days. Given that you need 9 books, that's about 27 days, so a bit less than a month, and that's if you don't do any actual grinding on the side.

That's much better than the Atma system. Even if you split it up, you won't always get results. You can spend hours in the same zone and never see an Atma, whereas you can spend hours grinding Myth and make progress on your books. If anything needs a nerf (Or a buff, in this case), it's the Atma drop rate.

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500 a day from strictly roulettes? Elaborate please.

Isn't it more ~300?

They could alter the current animus process in two ways.

Just add leves in the area as another means to obtain the atma.

Add leves and make a "counter" to obtaining the specific atma by completing set amount of leves.

This way you keep the FATE system as it is, but for the people who have 99 leves they can burn maybe 10-15 for each atma. This would make the path to obtaining the atma much more clear since they would have a clear visual of when they would obtain it, however if they didn't want to burn their leve charges like that then they could just continue to do FATEs.

A system like this I believe would open up the right amount of options without tweaking the current setup to much, since FATEs can be done as many times as one pleases it's current drop rate would be a fair balance to the token based guaranteed drop of atma that the leve side of the journey would provide.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

You want something unfinished released and patched later.

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It is finished.

What I'm proposing is a concept all MMO's have done for over 10 years.

Release as intended. Then proceed to fix and change as needed in a following update or patch.

If you're gonna keep quoting me at least put some effort from your part.

hmm i do like this idea :3

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Originally Posted by HardcoreHolly

Isn't it more ~300?

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290-315 myth a day assuming youve unlocked all roulettes and capped solidary. its 340-365 if you didnt cap solidary and doing expert roulette. +15-46 extra myth a day if you are doing your daily beast tribe quest as well (46 is only if you do 1 low 3 mid and 2 top dailys and ignore going 3 mid and 3 top as 1 top gives 7? solidary). So after running all your dailys, 2-4 speed runs of bray and youd be ~500ish a day. 2-4 hrs max depending on all your teams speed and success.

Also, that being said, this isnt really the optimal way to farm myth. it just helps casual players who don't speed run bray for whatever reason.

note: just giving the numbers. lol

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Originally Posted by necrosis

Any fool can farm 1500 myth for a book. IMHO this is 1000 times easier than trying to get a party together than can clear Titan (Hard).

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270 runs of brayflox. 31 hours if they're 6-7 min long. If you haven't even gotten to that point yet, you really have no idea what you're getting yourself into.

I don't know about that. Titan HM w/ echo is honestly carry-able if one tank, one healer, and two DPS are any good. I've DF'd it several times over the past week and each of them resulted in a completion.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

If you're gonna keep quoting me at least put some effort from your part.

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Effort? You are the one taking it personal, using a demeaning tone, and demanding clarification beyond reason.

I was finished with my first comment in this thread. Nothing has changed and I'm moving on.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

It is finished.

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"We are working to increase the number of locations where materials for the next upgrade can be obtained," doesn't sound like finished to me.
If you are looking in incorporate feedback into something, you also aren't finished.
If something is considered to be changed because of feedback or because something else didn't work as planned in the previous phase, it isn't working as intended.

I don't want a product that goes "hey, we have this new product, which you can have now, but its going to be recalled in x amount of days, so not everything is going to be the same." That's entirely different from releasing something and going "hey, we released this, but after doing so, we found out that this is broken and we need to fix it at x date."

The thing that I find OH so hilarious is that there are threads from the same people saying "stop whining about Animus, you just want it now," are now whining about not getting Novus now. The only difference is you got your weapon to show for it earlier than someone who may have actually spent more time doing the stone grind and actually got to do the books.

The hypocrisy (directed in no one in particular in this thread) is hilarious. "They said it would take a long time," sure, but the it ended up being "It will take a long time for some of you, some of you will get it tomorrow, and the rest won't see it until Final Fantasy 16 is announced. Please look forward to it."

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Originally Posted by Zaels

270 runs of brayflox. 31 hours if they're 6-7 min long. If you haven't even gotten to that point yet, you really have no idea what you're getting yourself into.

I don't know about that. Titan HM w/ echo is honestly carry-able if one tank, one healer, and two DPS are any good. I've DF'd it several times over the past week and each of them resulted in a completion.

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What the hell... can I DF with your some time lol? Every queue I get into either wipes pre heart or screws up with 25% echo...

I just want to get to ifrit/mog/leviathan -___-

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Originally Posted by HardcoreHolly

What the hell... can I DF with your some time lol? Every queue I get into either wipes pre heart or screws up with 25% echo...

I just want to get to ifrit/mog/leviathan -___-

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I think you mean Extreme instead of Hard Mode then? =P Because yeah, Titan HM nowadays is a breeze, with a lot of people ilv90 he goes down quick. Titan EX on the other hand.... even with 25% echo still needs patient people who knows Titan's rotation.

A nerf would mean that the challenge or difficulty of the content has been toned down. There is no such thing in the Atma quest, just luck. This isn't a nerf, its a fix. They can't nerf something that already poses no challenge short of being mind-numbingly unfun, but they can fix the quest.

Another way to look at it is the Coil chest fix. Was fixing the loot drops from the 2 coil chests a nerf? No, nothing from the content was nerfed at that time. Did people that got "Lucky" start crying how they nerfed their item now that coil had a fairer loot distribution? Do you understand how silly that would be? That is what this cryabout looks like.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

A nerf would mean that the challenge or difficulty of the content has been toned down. There is no such thing in the Atma quest, just luck. This isn't a nerf, its a fix. They can't nerf something that already poses no challenge short of being mind-numbingly unfun, but they can fix the quest.

Another way to look at it is the Coil chest fix. Was fixing the loot drops from the 2 coil chests a nerf? No, nothing from the content was nerfed at that time. Did people that got "Lucky" start crying how they nerfed their item now that coil had a fairer loot distribution? Do you understand how silly that would be? That is what this cryabout looks like.

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Nerf means to ease. Increasing the drop rate eases the "average" amount of time spent to complete the quest.

I think they should give some and take some.

Make Atma easier

Make Animus harder, increase book cost to 2k Myth or something.

Atma just feels wrong, like a rabid waste of time it's vexing. And then you have to sit there and say "Well, do I wanna do this again as my other awesome jobs?"

RNGlord

He giveth
And he taketh away

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

I think they should give some and take some.

Make Atma easier

Make Animus harder, increase book cost to 2k Myth or something.

Atma just feels wrong, like a rabid waste of time it's vexing. And then you have to sit there and say "Well, do I wanna do this again as my other awesome jobs?"

RNGlord

He giveth
And he taketh away

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So make the least time-consuming part take shorter, and the most time-consuming part take longer?

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Nerf means to ease. Increasing the drop rate eases the "average" amount of time spent to complete the quest.

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And a fair loot distribution also eases the "average" amount of time anyone would spend doing coil to get their piece. Do you call the coil chest fix a nerf to coil? Would you call the party sort list a nerf to primals? Would you call the bugfix to TT a nerf?

Technically, you could call all those things a nerf, but you'd sound retarded by doing so. I mean, anything can be a nerf-buff if you abstract their purpose and only look at a bland definition of easier/harder. This would be stupid, and it's largely why we define things as Nerfs, Buffs, Quality of Life, bugfixes, etc.

The Atma quest's challenge is doing Fates. Nobody is nerfing the difficulty of this Fates, they are just fixing the droprate. Because it is broken to begin with and arguing otherwise is lacking in common sense.

I'd like it if they made the Weapon damage of the Atmas go up gradually based on the number of books you've completed that way your progress is a lot more tangible and working steadily on the books has more immediate benefit compared to the tiny differences you'll see with +2 in a stat.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

And a fair loot distribution also eases the "average" amount of time anyone would spend doing coil to get their piece. Do you call the coil chest fix a nerf to coil? Would you call the party sort list a nerf to primals? Would you call the bugfix to TT a nerf?

Technically, you could call all those things a nerf, but you'd sound retarded by doing so. I mean, anything can be a nerf-buff if you abstract their purpose and only look at a bland definition of easier/harder. This would be stupid, and it's largely why we define things as Nerfs, Buffs, Quality of Life, bugfixes, etc.

The Atma quest's challenge is doing Fates. Nobody is nerfing the difficulty of this Fates, they are just fixing the droprate. Because it is broken to begin with and arguing otherwise is lacking in common sense.

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Lacking common sense is using the word retarded in 2014.

Why do people so many people associate difficulty with time spent?

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Lacking common sense is using the word retarded in 2014.

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That'd be lacking common etiquette, not common sense. Either way, I'm sure that quick retort invalidated all my arguments in your mind.

I guess I shouldn't expect much from someone that would rather keep the system broken.

13,500 myth is nothing..... Try saving billions of gil just for currency in 11 for your relic back in the day.

It took me about 2 weeks to collect 12 atma I personally liked the way it was going. I'm against the nerf

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

I think they should give some and take some.

Make Atma easier

Make Animus harder, increase book cost to 2k Myth or something.

Atma just feels wrong, like a rabid waste of time it's vexing. And then you have to sit there and say "Well, do I wanna do this again as my other awesome jobs?"

RNGlord

He giveth
And he taketh away

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Every time I see terrible suggestions like this, I find myself thankful that the people who make them will likely never have any real influence on the direction the game takes.

The whole atma idea really seems like a lazy attempt by SE to keep us busy till the next content update.

This is an MMO. There are supposed to be rare items. Everything does not have to be fair for everyone. Even non MMOs have rare items. Most people play Diablo for rare items. In Diablo there are items in the game that you could play for countless years and never see them drop while a newbie might see it drop on its first kill. To many, this is fun. What is wrong with SE adding a bit of rarity to its items?

Bottom line is that everyone can play solo and have a "chance" for an atma to drop. It might take someone 10 times as long as someone else. That is the intention of a rare drop. Not everyone should have it. Rare loot has never been fair in any game. Coils turns 6 - 8 can be completed with i-level 95 weapons. Farm those turns for an item level 110 weapon. Once you have your item level 110 weapon and start to run out of things to do you'll be glad that there's a casual option to team with new players and enjoy a casual grindfest play session.

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Originally Posted by XNihili

I'm not sure that fighting extremely hard monsters with 8 people while retaining the current RNG (meaning you probably won't get the atma and if you get it, your others partners probably won't and I'm not sure people are nice enough to stay around to help for hours and hours) would improve people's mood.

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You missed what I said:

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I believe that level of difficulty juiced up and packaged as single player content would be a far better step with the ATMA.

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To make it simpler, what I suggest is a fight like in Tactics where you had to kill what they thought were demons to retrieve the stone. HOWEVER, have it be a highly difficult fight where you are alone and have to beat said monster. Not RNG. It's a drop. Again, have it be a highly difficult fight where skill and how you approach it be of importance. Where the job you are in has a high impact of how the fight goes for you, much like how fighting that Ascian and the voidsent went in the BETA BEFORE the nerf.