atma drop rates

SE doesn't seem to change their stance anyway... The best point of Atmas from Reddit.

Besides, we got till Late April or Early May before we even see the next upgrade. There are other content that's more worth your time. Do FATEs in your free time then spending every game day trying to get Atmas, there's no rush....

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

SE doesn't seem to change their stance anyway... The best point of Atmas from Reddit.

Besides, we got till Late April or Early May before we even see the next upgrade. There are other content that's more worth your time. Do FATEs in your free time then spending every game day trying to get Atmas, there's no rush....

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You don't understand the books are the grind. The initial atmas are just there to screw a big chunk of people with bad RNG. If you don't get lucky then you may not even be done the atma's by the time the next patch comes out. People who think this is acceptable are either lucky or have literally nothing better to do than just doing the most boring, unengaging content ever.

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Originally Posted by Orson_Dara

People who think this is acceptable are either lucky or have literally nothing better to do than just doing the most boring, unengaging content ever.

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Max levels, no one on FC, Coil events done.... Riggghhttt.....

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Max levels, no one on FC, Coil events done.... Riggghhttt.....

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So you're lucky? Regardless most people would rather being doing content that is actually fun. Not getting screwed by a bad RNG. You can't justify this as content it's just rehashing the leveling process in the worst possible way. Let me ask you this when are you going to start doing your second job or your third? Also what positive is there to have it where some people do it for 6 hrs and get all of them and then others go 6 hrs getting none? Please enlighten me as to why this is a good system? Some far every proponent of this has either gotten lucky on drops and basically said, "it's not that bad, you can just do it when you're bored out of your mind and have nothing better to do."

You know what I have better to do? Play a different game that actually is fun.

Never claimed it was a good system.... SE has decided this, nothing you can do about it. I just have a lot of free time in my life and playing this.

I dedicated and yes I did actually get quite lucky on the Atmas after my 1st dropped. All night and grind a pack of hours to finally get my 1st Atma. This isn't the worst thing SE has done in a MMO, unless you wish for me to mention the Mythc Weapons in 11.

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Originally Posted by Nateh

Math

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That applies over a large sample group over time. However the drops are on a FATE by FATE basis. If it is a 1% drop rate per FATE, then every FATE you have 99% chance of getting nothing. Statistically someone can perpetually run FATEs endlessly and never receive an ATMA because each time they have a 99% chance of receiving nothing. You can improve your odds by running more FATEs (similar to improving your odds at winning the lottery by buying more tickets), but there is a distinct possibility that someone out there will never receive one Atma. This is why every drop-based RNG has a failsafe built into it or is increased over time.

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Originally Posted by Rosy

What they SHOULD have done, is to make the first part of the quest

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I'd have rather "Up In Arms" have been this as a one-time farm for all of them. Then individual weapons be the Myth/book grind.

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Originally Posted by Orson_Dara

You know what I have better to do? Play a different game that actually is fun.

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This may be the only thing to actually get a change on this.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

This isn't the worst thing SE has done in a MMO, unless you wish for me to mention the Mythc Weapons in 11.

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Just because something was done in the past doesn't make it OK to do again. The MMO market is saturated and there are many games to play besides this one. There are actually competitive games out against this one, Elder Scrolls launched, 2 new systems just released with new games, and there are still the older games holding on. Once this stops being fun there are options, and that's what kills an MMO now. This isn't fun, it won't end well.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to get your atma.


I haven't even started getting any Atmas and I think this system is awesome. It's actually making you WORK for your high level gear

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I think you are mistaking "work" with "spending time", they are not the same. This is a tedious consumption of time with which we as players have no control over. I guess the players who got lucky and managed to snag an atma within 30 minutes in each zone worked a lot harder than the people spending 5 hours+ in each zone for atmas.

Now if there was a defined limit where we could see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel, I'm sure people would be more receptive to this. (doing 50 fates in each zone for example) This however, is completely reliant on a dated RNG system that really just needs to die off.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

SE doesn't seem to change their stance anyway... The best point of Atmas from Reddit.

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SE absolutely does change their stance when players speak out thus ARR's current form. Yoshi listened very closely and vowed to continue doing so. Content like this will continue to come out so long as we, the players don't say anything about it being awful. If we don't speak up, then by the time they realize they're losing subs for this reason it'll have already been too late.

Furthermore, you're referencing one guy's opinion on Reddit which is a forum for discussion similar to what we're doing now. In fact, most people in that discussion disagree with the current Atma system as well.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

SE absolutely does change their stance when players speak out thus ARR's current form. Yoshi listened very closely and vowed to continue doing so. Content like this will continue to come out so long as we, the players don't say anything about it being awful. If we don't speak up, then by the time they realize they're losing subs for this reason it'll have already been too late.

Furthermore, you're referencing one guy's opinion on Reddit which is a forum for discussion similar to what we're doing now. In fact, most people in that discussion disagree with the current Atma system as well.

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Well bye then, good talking to ya if whoever quits. Since people got the idea they can complain anything since they pay, that's all latest community does...

If you're going to quit because of the Atma system, you have some serious minority issues. If the weapons turn out better than High Allagan. Those people don't even belong here to complain about some system. Lets give everyone the ultimate weapon that takes a lot less work than the High Allagan!

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Well bye then, good talking to ya if whoever quits. Since people got the idea they can complain anything since they pay, that's all latest community does...

If you're going to quit because of the Atma system, you have some serious minority issues. If the weapons turn out better than High Allagan. Those people don't even belong here to complain about some system. Lets give everyone the ultimate weapon that takes a lot less work than the High Allagan!

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WORK =/= TIME SPENT

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Originally Posted by Dinh

WORK =/= TIME SPENT

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So getting 13500 myth for animus form isn't working for it? People wanted FFXIV to go like 11, now they hate it.

Luck is always going to be involved. Getting your drop after a massive grind in Coil: Luck.

Getting your weapon in primal: Luck.

Getting mirror in Leviathan EX: Luck.

Ooo, I err, spent over 3 days grinding fates, I'm entitled to my Atma Weapon. Surree, lets get it done in 1 month early before the next upgrade in when animus is worse than Gerolds Master Works. SE doesn't expect you to finish it before 2.25, just get over it and move on.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

So getting 13500 myth for animus form isn't working for it? People wanted FFXIV to go like 11, now they hate it.

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Actually, I'm looking forward to that part, because I can know exactly how long it will take me to finish it, and make guaranteed progress when I sit down to work on it. As it stands, I'm 1/12 Atmas after 28 hours of doing FATEs, with no end in sight, which is pretty much the opposite of what I want in a grind.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

So getting 13500 myth for animus form isn't working for it? People wanted FFXIV to go like 11, now they hate it.

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http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Dinh

Don't talk to me about FFXI.

You still have no idea about what people are complaining about here, apparently the concept is going right over your head.

We don't care about grinding, we want a definitive way to obtain the item we are spending time to get.

Meaning, we do not want to rely on the RNG. Read what people are saying.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Actually, I'm looking forward to that part, because I can know exactly how long it will take me to finish it, and make guaranteed progress when I sit down to work on it. As it stands, I'm 1/12 Atmas after 28 hours of doing FATEs, with no end in sight, which is pretty much the opposite of what I want in a grind.

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You can get 9000 myth in direct 30 days of Roulette's. Completing 13500 myth in just over 30 days or less you will still have to wait almost a month before the next upgrade comes in.

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Originally Posted by Dinh

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Dinh

Don't talk to me about FFXI.

You still have no idea about what people are complaining about here, apparently the concept is going right over your head.

We don't care about grinding, we want a definitive way to obtain the item we are spending time to get.

Meaning, we do not want to rely on the RNG. Read what people are saying.

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I am reading, I just enjoy the spur of the moment since people only come here to complain if it's not going there way, lol.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

So getting 13500 myth for animus form isn't working for it? People wanted FFXIV to go like 11, now they hate it.

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No, some people expected it to be like XI, it wasn't. 1.0 was nothing like XI except for the false gating put in place and endless grinding. There was a reason this game tanked after the first month and required a rebuild. And 13,500 mythology is quantifiable. It's a numerical goal and you can monitor progress on it at all times. I can burn through them all at once or just take my time. But either way it is a measurable goal that can be easily monitored whereas Atma require an unquantified amount of time with the possibility of no results.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Luck is always going to be involved. Getting your drop after a massive grind in Coil: Luck.

Getting your weapon in primal: Luck.

Getting mirror in Leviathan EX: Luck.

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You're confusing the two systems entirely. Luck is always in play, but the two systems are entirely different.
Let's use turn 5 as an example. Once you beat it, 2 chests pop.
One chest has 9 weapons with a guaranteed drop of one making an 11.1111 (repeating) percent chance per weapon.
The second chest has 9 armor items with the same percent chance to drop.
Even if your item doesn't drop it's a guaranteed system that SOMETHING will drop.

The Atmas are completely random and it's entirely possible to never get one. It's not a loot pool to pray for your drop. It's a completely random drop, from a completely random FATE, there are 12 of them in total, and since the rates are so low some players may never see all of them or even just one. No player of any game should accept something like this. Especially if they're paying for the subscription.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Ooo, I err, spent over 3 days grinding fates, I'm entitled to my Atma Weapon. Surree, lets get it done in 1 month early before the next upgrade in when animus is worse than Gerolds Master Works. SE doesn't expect you to finish it before 2.25, just get over it and move on.

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I'm almost positive that Animus will be worse than Gerolt's Master Works. I'm also almost positive that you will need Animus to upgrade to that. This seems to be a continuous quest chain, and all this quest really is is just a false grindy wall that some people overcome quickly and some will probably never overcome.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

I am reading, I just enjoy the spur of the moment since people only come here to complain if it's not going there way, lol.

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Troll much? This person isn't worth talking to anymore. They're only here to create drama / issues not talk about the issues at hand, report that post and move on.

We should not allow this thread to become derailed from the real problem, Atma drops with RNG. There are better ways to go about a quest such as this, ways that involve a challenge or actual work that requires at least some skill as discussed earlier in the thread. As is stands this quest is worse than anything WoW ever came up with for casual players, it's simply lazy. I am disappointed with SE and it is disheartening to see many people leaving the game on my server due to this. With Warlords of Draenor on the horizon now is not the time to get lazy or complacent with content updates. Quite frankly it's insulting to the player base.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

I am reading, I just enjoy the spur of the moment since people only come here to complain if it's not going their way, lol.

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Oh it's not only people who don't get drops after hours and hours of mindless farming.
It's just that there are some things which make the quest for the zodiac weapon, especially the Atma farming, a tedious task.

1. Why is the quest located under completed quests and side quests, and why is there no indication of the Atma you need and already obtained, similat to other farm quests. (example: Atma of the Lion 0/1,...)

2. Why are the Atmas dropped into your normal inventory and not in the key item inventory?
It wouldn't be a big problem if you could make the books while you farm Atmas, so you won't have to carry them around for such a long time.

3. Why put Atmas in low level FATEs? Everyone doing that quest has a Zenith weapon and high level gear, and the quest forces us to obliterate FATE mobs in the starting areas. New players and players who level another class got to love that.

4. Why is the max myth cap not higher than 2000? If it takes that long to farm all the Atmas before you can do anything with them, people might want to run dungeons or something else for a change. But instead of letting people get more of them while doing other stuff, this is just a way to prevent players from advancing too fast.


And I didn't say one word about drop rate yet.
If the drop rate was higher, especially on the low level FATEs, the current system could work.
But the way it is now, it's nothing but a boring, tiresome, mindless grind.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

You can get 9000 myth in direct 30 days of Roulette's. Completing 13500 myth in just over 30 days or less you will still have to wait almost a month before the next upgrade comes in.

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That's exactly it. I'm not complaining about the time it takes. It should take a long time. But that time shouldn't be artificial, and should be the same for everyone, which the book grind is and the Atma grind isn't.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

Troll much? This person isn't worth talking to anymore. They're only here to create drama / issues not talk about the issues at hand, report that post and move on.

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Yes, report everyone you disagree with, that's productive.

I wouldn't mind if I had to beat the primals on the Extreme versions for the Amta stuff.

I wouldn't mind if we had to beat a Extreme Gilgamesh for them =).

I think mine might be bugged. The Atma of the Goat won't drop.

Don't save the East Shroud for last!

I wouldn't mind if it were X number of fates, or even a collect-a-fate style thing where you had to participate in one of every fate, or even new world boss fates, just something at least you can measure some sort of progress with them and not spend 12 hours farming and getting nothing, while seeing others get 5 crystals in less than an hour.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Pretty much this. It would have been fine if the entire thing was just a pure cosmetic thing like the Wind Up Tonberry, but putting RNG in quest progression, especially for powering up a weapon, is bad design.

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I'd have to argue this has become one of the greatest Korean MMO's because of it.

Don't care to much about a grind, but remove the RNG crap. Would prefer "do 3000 fates" as oppose to RNG.

Using RNG to determine progression by repeating old content countless hours after a new patch is kind of slapping people in the face who have already leveled several classes up on the exact same content, now they just have to do it over and over and over and over and over and over again EACH time they want to upgrade a weapon. And for everyone saying the "atma" system using RNG is fine, and nobody is forcing you to gear up, it will eventually get further upgrades, in which case you'll eventually have to go through this. Take out the RNG, and as suggested maybe increase drop rate 1% for each fate cleared in the area and I'd be happy to grind 1200 fates.

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Originally Posted by valethepoet

I'd have to argue this has become one of the greatest Korean MMO's because of it.

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man ive played a lot of Korean mmo's and they are grindy i will give you that but i can see progress i can feel progress, this i see nothing good... i feel like ive stalled out on the side of the high way with every size wrench imaginable but the one i need while i hope someone stops by with the right wrench

My last one wont drop from the east shroud. I think it's bugged. Farmed it all day today. (plus all 3 days)

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Originally Posted by DCILuther

My last one wont drop from the east shroud. I think it's bugged. Farmed it all day today. (plus all 3 days)

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I can assure you that it does drop. RNG can be a b**** ><

I'm working on the books now, and these are ALOT more fun than the Atma grinding, even though they also require doing some FATEs.
That's how the upgrade process should be from the start.

I agree progression on a quest needs to be clear... I'm grinding for three days 12+hours now without a drop after having 5 drop last week within 4 days.

I don't usually complain but this is something I'd expect to see in a F2P game. The fact that we're paying a sub to have to grind the same thing over and over again for a drop which frankly has myself paranoid and questioning if I'm doing the right thing consistently, just seems a little lazy.

I understand that it's not meant to be easy to get the upgrade, but I'm seeing people with level 60 gear and atma weapons a week after the patch, while friends and myself struggle to get past the 5 mark on our first weapon.

I'm mostly annoyed with the RNG because the rest of the game has been easy to set aside a couple hours around my kids to get stuff done, but here it just feels like I'm grinding endlessly for no progression to the next relic upgrade. Not everyone is a college kid or whatever with 40+ hrs of disposable free time each week.

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Originally Posted by Goonie

The atma fate system is fine. Like stated previously you can get a weather weapon or get the tidal weapon if u want something quick. If there is no challenge its no fun. i grinding fates for 12 hours and got all 12.

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Exactly where is the challenge in doing 5 million lv 12 fates?

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Originally Posted by TheSL

I'm mostly annoyed with the RNG because the rest of the game has been easy to set aside a couple hours around my kids to get stuff done, but here it just feels like I'm grinding endlessly for no progression to the next relic upgrade. Not everyone is a college kid or whatever with 40+ hrs of disposable free time each week.

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Couldn't agree more. I get that they want to put out enough things to do for the user base until the next content patch. Frankly, this grind fest is not content nor is it a challenge. It is nothing but lazy/poorly thought out design. In fact, this trajectory is deviating very far from the initial design to promote having multiple class/jobs. It is essentially forcing people with or without 40hrs of free time a week to place an emphasis on one class. The initial progression methodology of locking people out via a difficult encounter (then Titan HM) was brilliant. More of that, less of this. Please!

probably one of the most thought through observational comments i've seen. kudos sir, you hit the nail on the head.

I typed an essay after todays... attempts to get another Atma but we have a 1k character limit on here, so I'll link my Lodestone Blog (which has a 3k limit).

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/1067862/

Feel free to comment on there, I think I have a few valid points and I'm looking at it from multiple points of view in the big picture.

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Originally Posted by skho01

Couldn't agree more. I get that they want to put out enough things to do for the user base until the next content patch. Frankly, this grind fest is not content nor is it a challenge. It is nothing but lazy/poorly thought out design. In fact, this trajectory is deviating very far from the initial design to promote having multiple class/jobs. It is essentially forcing people with or without 40hrs of free time a week to place an emphasis on one class. The initial progression methodology of locking people out via a difficult encounter (then Titan HM) was brilliant. More of that, less of this. Please!

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Titan HM was a good roadblock, I got stuck there because of other people not being able to get past it. All it is when you look back is a 12 minute fight that is quite simple and easy to predict - I agree completely with your comment.

I believe a better way to roll this out would have been 12 Zodiac based monsters. You fight them the same way Dhorme Chimera and Hydra are. BEFORE that, you have to go out and do FATEs with your Zenith weapon. As you do, it builds a random amount of "charges," and after, say, 200 or so charges or something like that, it will be fully charged and you can fight one of the Zodiacs. Defeat it, and you get that monster's Atma. Rinse, repeat. Still a bit timesink-ish, BUT it doesn't completely rely on BS luck and makes you put in work with the content to get the job done. I could live with that model, but this totally random garbage isn't fun or challenging. And yes, there are other weapons, but I want to progress the one I spent months earning in the first place, and don't feel playing the lottery is the best approach to doing it.

If there is nothing wrong, after this 12 Zodiac FATE grind, why not have another 88 Constellation FATE grind for next part.

So I just got Atma of the Scorpion to drop after trying to get it for four days. Was 5 kills off my challenge log for my chocobo so did another FATE to finish that. Got another one drop right after the first... What the hell is that about o.O

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...am3/Atmax2.png

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Originally Posted by Kurosawa

I believe a better way to roll this out would have been 12 Zodiac based monsters. You fight them the same way Dhorme Chimera and Hydra are. BEFORE that, you have to go out and do FATEs with your Zenith weapon. As you do, it builds a random amount of "charges," and after, say, 200 or so charges or something like that, it will be fully charged and you can fight one of the Zodiacs. Defeat it, and you get that monster's Atma. Rinse, repeat. Still a bit timesink-ish, BUT it doesn't completely rely on BS luck and makes you put in work with the content to get the job done.

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I agree with this. At least its a "world boss" that require some kind of coordination. Alternatively, they could lock it behind Thornmarch (Ex) / Levi (Ex) per weapon and some form of tomestone req. At least that'll give people incentives to run those encounters again. The second portion of book grinding sucks too, but at least its slightly more manageable.

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Originally Posted by SaikaSyvari

So I just got Atma of the Scorpion to drop after trying to get it for four days. Was 5 kills off my challenge log for my chocobo so did another FATE to finish that. Got another one drop right after the first... What the hell is that about o.O

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...am3/Atmax2.png

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The RNGesus answered your prayers.