What Makes You a Top DPS Player?

Stay alive and keep shooting.. at least thats what im doing as a SMN :D

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Originally Posted by Seobit

Dps don't give jack shit about threat. A dps pulling threat from a tank is almost always because of a bad tank, except for a few very specific situations.

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That's when you pop defensive cooldowns and pull threat anyways, keke ^_^.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Trying to analyze this is possible, but mostly boils down to "instinct". You're either a natural at the instinctive stuff, or you can learn it through a lot of practice. Sasukes and Narutos do, in fact, exist.

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Athletes talk about "being in the zone" Yoda said "Do or do not, there is no try" which is basically eastern enlightenment... Learning can only take you so far, and I honestly dont think there's a linear relationship between what you've learned and how you preform. Knowledge and skill are very different things, and then skil =/= execution. This might sound crazy complicated and philosphical, but look at athletes who have the physical tools but don't perfom and visaversa.

You could say it's a union of mind, body, and spirit in the sense of knowledge/understanding, reflex/mechanic capability, and then focus / determination / discipline.


Learning is one thing. Skill is another. Skill can either be intuitive, or it can be learned by a lot of practice. Some people just know what to do in order to maximize DPS or to perform their role. Some people can learn these things after a lot of practice and burning the "right action" into their reflexes and habits.

Edit:

Yeah, I'm the first person to say that time or learning != performance. Some people have inherent personal weaknesses in discipline or focus or the intelligence to make dynamic decisions. It may take them much more practice to perform at the same level as the next guy. However, I'm a firm believer that a player can get good if they really want to and are willing to practice and improve. Most just don't / are too lazy / it's just a game / aren't aware of where their actual weakness lies / are far enough behind that they would actually need to make FF14 a job to get good at.

It's so simple.
Left Handed = Top DPS

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

It's so simple.
Left Handed = Top DPS

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OMG I agree with this so much!

<----Left Handed

That's why the Razer Naga was invented. RIGHTIES 4 LYFE.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

Dps don't give jack shit about threat. A dps pulling threat from a tank is almost always because of a bad tank, except for a few very specific situations.

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This is true from what I see.

After the threat buffs in 2.1, it became really hard for me to pull aggro off tanks unless they were heavily undergeared or just bad.

As a DRG, the only time I could (normally) potentially take aggro is during my first burst phase, if the tank just isn't generating enough aggro by the time I Life Surge Full Thrust (which, again, normally only happens with an undergeared tank).
However, I've been pulling Tail aggro on Levi EX with some tanks who just Fast Blade - Savage Blade (which is, honestly, a good idea, since Rage of Halone is used to instantly grab an add) it before going to pick up adds; I'm just doing Heavy Thrust - Impulse Drive - Disembowel - Chaos Thrust (if I use Phlembotomize, I steal aggro every time unless Rage is used), then Dragonfire Dive to the adds, and have a chance to take aggro (crits are fun). If Circle of Scorn is used, I don't steal aggro, but some tanks won't do that, and I spend the add phase getting pelted with Scales and healers getting angry at me. Now, I haven't pulled Tail aggro from a WAR yet, but I've mostly just done Levi EX with a PLD OT, so I need to run with more WAR OTs to be able to say if its just i90 weapon PLD I'm stealing aggro from, or any i90 weapon tank; its also a possibility that an i95 weapon PLD would be able to hold aggro, but haven't played with one yet.

I also occasionally pull aggro off Knights in T4, but I don't really care about that since when I normally do its pretty much dead and I just don't care; same for most trash mobs, really. But they're trash mobs...



As a side-note: I've never understood the mentality that tank swapping causes DPS to take hate more often; Tanks just use provoke to get back to #1, and you just go all-out when you're #1, only holding back when you're #2. Since #1 is always generating aggro like normal, there shouldn't be any aggro "leaks" like people seem to think happens. And yes, I've done plenty of tank-swapping and know how to do it properly (and hate being paired with a tank with an i80 weapon, I have to hold back so much as a WAR just spamming Path and Eye as #2...) The only spot I can think of where there can be problems is on the Firestar node in T2, since its the first node with Slashing Resistance, and sometimes ADS if someone goes all-out a little too fast.

Simple things like staying out of AOEs. I see too many DPS players too worried about getting a spell off to keep that astral going instead of avoiding a hit. Getting hit means taking more damage, and taking damage means the healer needs to make sure you don't die. Making sure you don't die means time taken off healing tank, which could put the whole party in jeopordy. I'm also not sure how "in demand" this is, but whenever the tank is kind enough to mark the targets (very helpful if any tank is reading this) I usually try to put 2 and 3 to sleep, and then start DPS on 1, for example. It seems to minimize the amount of damage taken by the tank, which makes it easier for the whole party. I usually get a compliment from tanks and healers when I use sleep.

Other than that, I usually start off with Thunder, followed by Fire. When I do switch to Transpose, I usually re-do the DOT (Thunder) and then keep the umbral going until I can use Transpose again.

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Originally Posted by Sobia

Other than that, I usually start off with Thunder, followed by Fire. When I do switch to Transpose, I usually re-do the DOT (Thunder) and then keep the umbral going until I can use Transpose again.

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I think you should scour this forum for some BLM rotations, because that sounds pretty terrible. Transpose should only be used during AoE rotations, between battles to regain MP to full, or if you screwed up your single target rotation and somehow find yourself without enough MP for Blizzard III.

I've been maining blm since launch, and i feel like i'm in the "understand the class, but am a mid-performer" group typically. i'm on ps3, so the only way i can even remotely judge my relative dps to the rest of the group is where i'm at on the hate list (which i know is a sketchy method at best). if it's a fight i know very well, i have a rhythm that i get into and will usually do very well. i may very occasionally screw something up, run out of mp and have to either transpose > bliz 3 to get back on track or the dreaded: transpose > realize that astral wore while i was running around avoiding random aoe so i wasted transpose > bliz 1 > bliz 3 > back into normal rotation (this is embarrassing as hell when it happens). but sometimes, even on a fight i know very well and do my normal rhythm, it seems like i just don't get the thunderstorm/firestarter procs that i should, which makes me appear as a rather bland dps.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

I think you should scour this forum for some BLM rotations, because that sounds pretty terrible. Transpose should only be used during AoE rotations, between battles to regain MP to full, or if you screwed up your single target rotation and somehow find yourself without enough MP for Blizzard III.

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The only reason I do what I do is because Im not level 50 yet. I don\\'t have the opportunity to take advantage of things like fire starter or astral 3. I have a good rotation in mind, but one that I can\\'t do until later levels. All the guides are directed forward lvl 50, but I haven\\'t gotten there yet. But thank you for the input :) it made me look around a little more and I learned a few more things.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

I think you should scour this forum for some BLM rotations, because that sounds pretty terrible. Transpose should only be used during AoE rotations, between battles to regain MP to full, or if you screwed up your single target rotation and somehow find yourself without enough MP for Blizzard III.

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Just an FYI...he's a lv35 BLM, according to the data under his pic...so Transpose is all he has really.

As a lvl 50 SMN/ACN/SCH I still consider myself a noob at times and I am always willing to learn to better myself for my party and my FC - Metamorphosis.

DOT!DOT!DOT! My role is to spread the DOT all over the place and keep it spread all over the time of the battle.

Opening with Shadow Flare, with the basic macro of BioII/Miasma/Bio following immediately.
This basic macro is the staple of my DOT.
I amplify this with Virus when possible. Bane is my go-to for mobs to make it easier for the party.
Fester is my main single-target and high-damage skill.

My Ifrit/Garuda always gets Spur when it is available and I throw in Enkindle early on in the battle for single enemy bosses, as it is likely that it will become available later on when the additional damage is needed.

If I die, I die. I am more than happy to accept that it was my fault and will gladly lie there and wait to be raised when it is possible.
I also have Physick if need be to look after myself and my pet. I do not rely on the healer for my well-being, they have other things to concern themselves with.
If I see the Healer getting whacked by a mob I will always run and try and assist by drawing enmity off them and throw in a heal or two.
I see my role as Damage Party Support. :D

As always, let me know if there is anything I can improve.

Thanks for the feed back!


It seems the major factor, as I suspected and many of you have persuasively argued, is up time. Making sure you are active as much as possible.

K, great, I can tell someone that but no one (who falls in the target "underperforming but wants to improve" category) is consciously sitting idle. If they were, then they'd know that's their weakness and fix it. Now, I want to ask:


How do you train someone to reduce their down time? Are there any good add ons that chart activity (so that at time x it shows you inactive for z seconds)? Ideally I need something that will get their attention that they aren't spell casting. Maybe a program that is set to buz if one of some pre selected keys (here you'd put all your spell keys) aren't hit every three seconds? I imagine this would be something usually unrelated to gaming.


Maybe someone already invented good drills for activity?

Again the goal of this thread is to learn how to teach people to improve.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

I am so dumb

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The game can do it. Make a macro for every spell:
/macroicon "Spell Name"
/ac "Spell Name" <t> <wait.3>
/echo <se.2> <se.3>

If he inputs a new spell the macro will over write and he won't hear the fail buz.

Only concern: 3 seconds is still too long to be idle, but is a start.

Ok that macro is actually funny.

Well, I define a good player as a player that makes the right move at the right time and knows all the subtle tricks of his class. Does he know the right times to use Quelling Strikes. Does the DRG you see know how to effectively use elusive jump as both a gap closer and enmity drop? A player's awareness is huge when I'm judging a player. Anybody can learn the correct rotations and mechanics on any particular boss fight, but when the shit hits the fan, are they able to stay calm and navigate through the situation at hand preventing a wipe?

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Originally Posted by GeneralBeolve

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Be that as it may, and I'm not questioning the validity of your statement.

But this is sort of neither here nor there to the thread topic. Explicitly I am looking for ways to coach players who already do all those things but have low damage output numbers.

So here, a good player does everything you listed (awareness, calm, etc) while pumping out top tier numbers.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Only concern: 3 seconds is still too long to be idle, but is a start.

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Make it 2 seconds. If he's using macros for everything, he can't pre-queue actions, so he should be spamming the next ability before the GCD is close to being done anyway.

I'm pretty much in that middle ground myself. I'm above average, but I have to fight to focus well enough to really push my numbers. One thing I've done is go into CT now and then and force myself to tunnel-vision on my rotation etc. CT isn't dangerous enough for this to be a real problem, but the fights last long enough that I get in a good few minutes of solid focus. I just force myself to only pay enough attention to the rest of the situation to survive, and do my best to really nail each button press. I find it carries through when I'm doing something real and need to actually dodge and stuff; it's easier not to refresh a DoT too early or let a buff fall off or something.

[QUOTE=PiedPiper;2017475]
To me, thats exactly the point of the topic. Once you know how to correctly play your class. It's simply a matter up keeping maximum uptime. As long as you know your rotation/priority system, all you have to do to this point is execute your moves abilities in the most damaging order while keeping in mind the mechanics of the boss (no use putting a dot on Titan if he's simply going to jump in the air). Then there is the whole making sure you are wearing the right gear. Basically..
1. Know All abilities at your disposal and the proper time when to best used said abilities.
2. Keep maximum uptime on the boss. (this is where boss mechanics come in
3. Be properly geared (Have stats that enable you do output the most damage while still being at the ACC cap.

[QUOTE=GeneralBeolve;2017706]

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Once you know how to correctly play your class. It's simply a matter up keeping maximum uptime. As long as you know your rotation/priority system, all you have to do to this point is execute your moves abilities in the most damaging order while keeping in mind the mechanics of the boss (no use putting a dot on Titan if he's simply going to jump in the air). Then there is the whole making sure you are wearing the right gear. Basically..
1. Know All abilities at your disposal and the proper time when to best used said abilities.
2. Keep maximum uptime on the boss. (this is where boss mechanics come in
3. Be properly geared (Have stats that enable you do output the most damage while still being at the ACC cap.

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You're right. I agree with you.


Guess I was just trying to push for more specific information to use as a coaching device. Of course, you just gave that :)

[QUOTE=GeneralBeolve;2017706]

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

As long as you know your rotation/priority system, all you have to do to this point is execute your moves abilities in the most damaging order while keeping in mind the mechanics of the boss (no use putting a dot on Titan if he's simply going to jump in the air).

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Not to nitpick but you actually should put up dots before a jump because they tick while the boss is in the air (and is therefore the only form of damage allowed during that time).
Otherwise, everything else you said is on point.

DoTs shouldn't be placed just because they're DoTs. You should use the highest potency per GCD for your last "x" GCDs before the target jumps. Typically, a full DoT will meet this criteria, but many times not. For example, if you have 50% duration left on the DoT, do you refresh for the jump? Depends on the DoT and the situation -- but for most DoTs, no.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Good PS3 advice.

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I can't quote this enough. On my Monk it's fine all my core skills fit on one hotbar but when I'm on WHM my attacks spells are on one hotbar and healing spells on the other. It's literally a skill in itself it to learn to switch between the two quickly and efficiently. .

I feel the same as you do, all my cooldowns are mostly relegated to he L2 trigger while attacks are R2. It's also much easier to manoeuvre around the field to dodge etc if the most used skills are on R2. At least for me.

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Originally Posted by Odd

basically just zero downtime. .

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This. As a bard my DPS is also dependant on how others manage thier mana/TP as well. If they do a good job in certain fights I don't need to sing ballads except for maybe at key points, thus keeping my dps up. For me It's not just about keeping DOTs up but also managing cooldowns and knowing when to use them, blow them all or exactly when to weave them into a rotation. Knowing that, I have managed to be in the top two of several parties i've been in for DPS output.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

DoTs shouldn't be placed just because they're DoTs. You should use the highest potency per GCD for your last "x" GCDs before the target jumps. Typically, a full DoT will meet this criteria, but many times not. For example, if you have 50% duration left on the DoT, do you refresh for the jump? Depends on the DoT and the situation -- but for most DoTs, no.

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I didn't mean to imply that you should refresh your dots because of a jump, just that you should put them up if you were going to anyway.
My point that dots are the only form of damage during a jump may have made it seem so, but I just thought it ironic.

Yeah, I just made the comment because a lot of random people have a misconception that simply because the dots tick in the air they are good -- it's actually because dots are usually a high damage per gcd attack.

For any who came here looking to self improve or learn how to coach a team member, I offer:

Activity is the key. Turns out, if a player isn't already honed in on having a high activity rate, odds are they either don't realize how important it is, or don't realize how idle they are.

How to coach activity:

1) Be sure that activity is the issue. Some parsers show action counts, try watching a recording, etc. Be certain.

2) They need to realize there is a problem. Gently show them they can and need to improve.

3) Make them aware of their inactivity. Things like worrying about dodging can preoccupy players.

4) Come up with a way for them to see when they are inactive in real time. Earlier in this thread I posted a proposed macro featuring a wait 3 with a sound q should the player not activate another skill, this has been extremely effective.

5) ???

6) Profit

Our blm who used to lose to my pld now competes for top dps. A big thanks to all who contributed here.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Yeah, I just made the comment because a lot of random people have a misconception that simply because the dots tick in the air they are good -- it's actually because dots are usually a high damage per gcd attack.

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Are we sure they tick? Titan and ifrit often display invuln during their jumps and lands. I admit it's probbable, just wondering if anyone has a reason to be quite sure. Is it because garu is easily observed to continue to receive damage from dots even when sisters are up?

Pretty sure they tick for the most part. I've never personally done testing. The general word is that Ifrit takes no damage during his charges, and Titan takes no damage during heart phase. Aside from that, they purportedly take damage during jumps.

Levi is pretty obvious due to the raw quantity of dives -- if Levi didn't take damage from DoTs while diving, SMNs and BRDs would get shafted.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Are we sure they tick? Titan and ifrit often display invuln during their jumps and lands. I admit it's probbable, just wondering if anyone has a reason to be quite sure. Is it because garu is easily observed to continue to receive damage from dots even when sisters are up?

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Well first, I see a stream of damage from Titan when he jumps from the dots, same for Garuda.
A more accurate test is that you can get dot based procs during a jump such as Bloodletter or Thundercloud.
I've got thundercloud procs mid divebombs (T5) and during Titan and Garuda jumps for sure. Our bard got Bloodletter procs a few times during Ifrit's Hellfire.

The exceptions are as easymode said, Titan's heart and Ifrit's charges. Otherwise, I believe they have some invulnerability during the animation but it seems that the game allows the dots to tick once they were delivered before that kicked in.

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Simple things like staying out of AOEs.

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That really entirely depend of the fight itself. Like for example, in T7 I just never run out of any of Melusine / Lamia aoe unless im very very low - half hp + bfb on.

Healers know it, and I just take an embrace which is kinda enough to top me off most of the time (I mean, 2 tons of hp on dragoon + keen flurry + second wind + bloodbath are here for that). You can play with damage taken on your face aslong it doesn't kill you.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

That really entirely depend of the fight itself. Like for example, in T7 I just never run out of any of Melusine / Lamia aoe unless im very very low - half hp + bfb on.

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Wat a n00bie.