SE, if you're that desperate for money...

I never really understand arguments like this. If it isn't game breaking then what is the issue? If I was paying extra for something core related to the game such as story content or skills then I would see a problem. And even then it comes down to whether people are willing to pay for it or not. If SE wants to experiment with different business practices to make a profit that may, in turn, lead to a better game play experience, more power to them. Realize that SE is a business first and if there is something you don't like about it then voting with our money will be the most effective way to cause a change.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

On topic, I blame the Industry as a whole setting the terrible precedent to begin with and the player demand purchasing it. SE seems to be just following what's past practiced via a different method.

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This is a self-set precedent really. I could pay extra money for mules in FFXI starting from the game's release in 2002, and I could do a ton more damage to the economy with them through gardening than what it appears Ventures will be capable of, and gardening was much more fire-and-forget gil generation requiring just the setup and regular maintenance without any experience grinding required and with the techniques I used it self-generated the seed materials required.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...rThanTheyThink

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Originally Posted by LemmingKingXXX

This is a self-set precedent really. I could pay extra money for mules in FFXI starting from the game's release in 2002,

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Except for this game doesn't copy from FFXI but from WoW :( .

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Originally Posted by LemmingKingXXX

This is a self-set precedent really. I could pay extra money for mules in FFXI starting from the game's release in 2002, and I could do a ton more damage to the economy with them through gardening than what it appears Ventures will be capable of, and gardening was much more fire-and-forget gil generation requiring just the setup and regular maintenance without any experience grinding required and with the techniques I used it self-generated the seed materials required.

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SE wasn't selling mules in XI; they sold additional characters. Players just chose to use them as mules. And XI has/had a discount sub if you only have one character (just like XIV). That's a far cry from literally selling storage space and auction house slots, especially when a lot of us are already paying the full $15/month standard sub.

Why are you people so willing to give SE more money.

Companies are not your friends. You are already paying each month to play.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Except for this game doesn't copy from FFXI but from WoW :( .

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Not the point, he mentioned putting the blame to the industry for creating this situation, I posited that this additional retainer purchase is in fact a more progressive form of a precedent SE set for themselves, and could very well be far less influential on the economy than the gardening mule of last decade.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

That's a far cry from literally selling storage space and auction house slots, especially when a lot of us are already paying the full $15/month standard sub.

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If you are paying full sub fee, you have 175*16 + 8*100 = 3600 (potential) inventory spaces and 20*16 = 320 auction slots. It's up to you to do the work(?) required to level 7 alts to 15 to unlock retainers, and get them in your FC so you can use FC bank to transfer between them. Alternatively have a reliable friend act as a trading point.

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Originally Posted by Zourin

Pay per additional character was also the plan from the start.

Just because 'something was the plan for the start' doesn't mean it's a good idea. You should have learned that in spades from 1.0's cornucopia of failures

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we have this still in some way.

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Originally Posted by Zelas

Personally, as long as they don't stop letting us put Event Items in the Armoire as a sneaky attempt to make us buy more retainers, I'm fine with the 2$/extra retainer.

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Fix is coming with 2.2.
With 2.2 you can now sell event items to make space and buy them back later with gil from the calamity npc if you want them again.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Aside from the terrible precedent it sets, it's the "per month" thing that's really troubling. People are really okay with spending what could eventually be hundreds of dollars on some additional storage space an auction house slots? It's absurd. If they're going to go down that route (and they really, really shouldn't have), they should at least do the sane thing and make it a one time fee. Even free-to-play MMOs get that part right.

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During 1.0 a character slot had cost 3$/months extra. And there were no 10 threads complaining about it.
Some people also bought a second character slot for additional storage space. It was easy to sell in an empty market ward like in Gridania with a separated market system the stuff to a second character with a retainer for 1 gil the piece.

Whining and complaining is nonsense. If giving me more opportunities to hand SE money arise, i will happily do so, especially when i know every dollar SE makes off this game extended the lifespan of FFXIV.

From wikipedia:

"The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually. According to contemporary biologists the premise of the story is not literally true; a frog submerged and gradually heated will jump out. However, some 19th-century experiments suggested that the underlying premise is true, provided the heating is sufficiently gradual."

ITT: Lots of frogs.



When will you jump out?

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Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

If giving me more opportunities to hand SE money arise, i will happily do so, especially when i know every dollar SE makes off this game extended the lifespan of FFXIV.

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Do you feel the same about Comcast or your internet service provider?

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Originally Posted by Felis

During 1.0 a character slot had cost 3$/months extra. And there were no 10 threads complaining about it.
Some people also bought a second character slot for additional storage space. It was easy to sell in an empty market ward like in Gridania with a separated market system the stuff to a second character with a retainer for 1 gil the piece.

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Again: if you only had the one character, you did not pay the full sub. This is money asked for ON TOP OF a full sub. That is a very important difference.

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Originally Posted by Stanice

When will you jump out?

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To be honest, I'm already considering it.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Again: if you only had the one character, you did not pay the full sub. This is money asked for ON TOP OF a full sub. That is a very important difference.

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Someone, from an outside perspective, could technically argue that a "full" sub is now $19/mo. It's all just a matter of perspective, if you don't like it, no one iis holding a gun to your head keeping you here.

Lol at thinking this is going to break the economy, its the same as now, you know have to level the retainers, only people that are going to be super dedicated to leveling retainers up to a point of even getting good ingredients will really have an impact on the economy, it really isn't going to be that many, and the amount of people that dedicated to level up more than two for this, is even lower. Even if the entry cost of leveling retainers is low, its shown you give people some mundane easy grind, and still most people won't do it. How many people are really going to sit there, and make sure their retainer is out for ventures at every possible time period it can be, I really don't think that many.

If you really think this is going to introduce a pay to win mentality, leave, but if you stay you'll know you're wrong. I bet you within 2-3 months of this, the only thing this is going to have an effect on is low level ingredients, why does anyone care.

Just another "omg I'm so dramatic , lets fear monger about nothing" thread in reality. Having actually seen pay to win games, I must ask if many of you have? DCUO was an awesome game with a sub, when it went f2p they limited the amount of end game you could do per day on a free account, and added the option to either pay a sub to get unlimited (which I'm cool with) or buy tokens to enter said end game individually (pay to win), it ended up really geared out people were just people with more irl money to burn, instead of the grind it took while it was a sub'd game. That's pay to win. Buying an extra retainer, to hold items, and potentially gather things after leveling them up, is barely pay to win, its like pay for comfort of life, but barely pay to win.

As I see it we all pay a sub, and we all have the same access to content, nothing is forcing you to pay more money to actually access content it takes to play this game. So its not pay to win. Pay to win, is where when you pay extra irl money, you gain access to more content, quicker content, easier content, or can do the content more times. This is just retainer ventures, its not game breaking content, no one is making you cough up more money so you can spam coil, or get more than one ex primal weapon a week. Just like no one is asking you to buy said material/ crafted items from these players, you could always do it yourself and take the power out of their hands.

Actually, if SE wants to make money, all they need to do is SELL FREAKING FANTASIA ALREADY!!!! *ehem*
I'm sorry I mean sell fantasia in the mog station.

I couldn't agree more on this. SE is going down the wrong path by allowing players to be at a distinctive advantage through paying money....this is something you expect to find in a F2P game, but should NOT be in a MMO I'm paying $15 a month for.

I wouldn't be against this if it did not give the player a distinct advantage over someone not paying. Anything vanity related is fine, such as buying a unique mount or even the Fantasia, as it gives nothing beneficial in terms of game play. This is where it draws the line. While yes the advantages of having extra retainers aren't huge, it's still an advantage and not fair to other players who don't want to dish out extra money for extra inventory space, more gil income and more market space. Any player should be able to unlock these through quests or other in game content, not through our money.

The fact is that extra inventory space SHOULD be given to us, we are paying our monthly fees....Yoshi P and team should not be holding any forms of content that benefit game play in a subscription based game....period.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Again: if you only had the one character, you did not pay the full sub. This is money asked for ON TOP OF a full sub. That is a very important difference.

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And I write about that some people paid 3$/months more to have extra storage during 1.0 (extra character + 2 retainer)

The sub was 9.99$ basic fee + 3$ for each character slot (yes, even for the first character slot)

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Lol at thinking this is going to break the economy, its the same as now, you know have to level the retainers, only people that are going to be super dedicated to leveling retainers up to a point of even getting good ingredients will really have an impact on the economy, it really isn't going to be that many, and the amount of people that dedicated to level up more than two for this, is even lower. Even if the entry cost of leveling retainers is low, its shown you give people some mundane easy grind, and still most people won't do it. How many people are really going to sit there, and make sure their retainer is out for ventures at every possible time period it can be, I really don't think that many.

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They also want to be good equiped with real equip you need to craft/farm/buy first with materia in it to get the best out of them.

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Originally Posted by GenoWhirl

I couldn't agree more on this. SE is going down the wrong path by allowing players to be at a distinctive advantage through paying money....this is something you expect to find in a F2P game, but should NOT be in a MMO I'm paying $15 a month for.

I wouldn't be against this if it did not give the player a distinct advantage over someone not paying.

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Do you say the same if someone pay for 2 accounts 6 months in row and only pay $16/month in total for both accounts?

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Originally Posted by Stanice

When will you jump out?

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Soon if they keep this up. Its actually insulting to already pay a sub and expect to get more on top for something so retarded as retainers.

Sadly, too many blind followers of SE who think every idea they have is gold, and we should be thankful they even allow us to pay them.