1,000 reasons why Archer/Bard needs a non healer limit

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Originally Posted by Duelle

He's on to something, though. Yes, archer dual wielded but thats because archers are an offshoot of the rogue archetype. I could get behind ARC/BRD, not to mention Musketeer getting a limit break that involved continuous damage.

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Reason why i use Unlimited Blade Works as a joke / suggestion. Yea feel like in the new expansion, they will probably got Musketeer and Scout i think so they could slap a new kind of limit break where it is a long steady damage instead of burst damage and give it to BRD, Musketeer and Scout.

Potential usages are in bosses fights where you just need a steady damage while the whole party is running around dodging stuffs, hell, if fight last long enough, you could let BRD LB at the start of the fight, and gather up enough LB for second use near the end for tank / dps / healers.

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Originally Posted by meldon90

I'm tired of hearing bards wanting to be more aggressive, you're maybe the most overpowered class in the entire game, you're needed in almost every endgame content and do really high dps for a SUPPORT CLASS

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Bard is a DPS job with utility built in. Stop spreading misinformation based on bad role distribution.

BRD was fine back when the game launched. The ranged-only thing came from a) bad habits from FFXI, b) the fact that encounters tended to punish melee WAY more than ranged, and c) because dungeons and endgame were not structured in a way that encourages balanced raid comps. As far as being "needed", once interrupts (AKA BRD's real selling point) get spread out better you might see a shift.

The main issue still remains that physical ranged should have their own limit break. Even if you think it's not needed now, it will definitely be needed when ARC's second job gets implemented as well as when musketeer enters the game.

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Originally Posted by Steffie

Reason why i use Unlimited Blade Works as a joke / suggestion. Yea feel like in the new expansion, they will probably got Musketeer and Scout i think so they could slap a new kind of limit break where it is a long steady damage instead of burst damage and give it to BRD, Musketeer and Scout.

Potential usages are in bosses fights where you just need a steady damage while the whole party is running around dodging stuffs, hell, if fight last long enough, you could let BRD LB at the start of the fight, and gather up enough LB for second use near the end for tank / dps / healers.

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That's kind of what I'm thinking, too. Cast LB, LB would take effect over X seconds.

I originally wanted to suggest that ranged LB would be something like the shot the first boss of Pharos Sirius uses, but a frontal line attack would be less useful than the caster DPS LB and would still have to be weak compared to the melee DPS LB.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

BRD was fine back when the game launched.

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Lol what.

Our static's BRD can outdamage our BLMs and DRG on Twintania, even after B4B changes.

Do not underestimate the ability to deal damage while moving. BRD before the "nerf" was definitely imba.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

But it wont be... They were thinking of a support role, which bard currently fits. So really this would just be preemptively putting in an LB for when they finish making other classes/jobs for that role.

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i doubt the next class added will be a support class, more important, we don't know when they will add a new class. for now i found the bard to be to a decent place, if the bard player is not an idiot, he will be one of the last to die. no cast time for him attack, high mobility. the healer lb can save the ass of the team if the bard is clever.

finally as some have point it, you are more support than DD... if they was giving the bard a DD lb... no more melee will be taken in group exept for the few fight where the melee LB is needed.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Bard is a DPS job with utility built in. Stop spreading misinformation based on bad role distribution.

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Yeah! How stupid am I?! I'll use my mp and tp songs on my dragoon too! ... oh wait, i dont have any support ability on my dragoon!
Bard is different from any other dps class, and why? Because of its support abilities!
What should i call it?

Bards that use their songs properly actually support the other players in the group. Limit Breaks aren't even required to clear any content at all. They make certain phases a lot easier to deal with, But those phases are not impossible without the Limit Break.

If you want to do a DD Limit Break, play a Job that performs it.

I main bard, and I can't tell you how many times I've saved a party with LB3.

Nothing like both Healers dying post-Heart in Titan X and still being able to pull off a win.
I'll keep the Healing LB. Thank you.

actually, why did they even give archer bard job instead of Ranger?

First thing is to dispel this notion that Bard is not a damage class but a support class. They clearly are damage and a good one will be at or near the top damage output, especially in fights that require a lot of movement. Yes they have support, but so does Drg. Drg can increase piercing damage for party drg and brd FULL TIME. Brd can increase magic damage for the casters (which does the brd itself no good) and refresh but is limited by their MP and so cannot be buffing full time.


The brd limit break is at least as effective as when used by a healer. I've used it (rarely) to turn a loss into a win.

Brd limit break is, though, an awkward fit. Nothing else they do can heal or raise. Excluding brd, there are 2 jobs with tank LB, 2 jobs with melee LB, 2 jobs with caster LB and 2 jobs with healer LB. Brd is the odd man out. SE has chosen to awkwardly fit it into one of the others instead of making a unique LB. They should have included it with the melee given that the job is classed as DPS and not healing (ie, you can have an entire party without access to an offensive LB if all of your DPS are brds).

I'd like to see something unique. Not healing, damage mitigation or damage dealing. How about AOE stun (5 sec duration) + refresh + regen on party? Now that would be useful.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

First thing is to dispel this notion that Bard is not a damage class but a support class. They clearly are damage and a good one will be at or near the top damage output, especially in fights that require a lot of movement. Yes they have support, but so does Drg. Drg can increase piercing damage for party drg and brd FULL TIME.

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Mmmmmm from that point of view, i could say Monk is a support class too since they can decrease blunt resistance full time

The issue is not why BRD has the healing LB, the issue is Healing LB sucks azz.

It should... grant 5 sec immunity(or make the target immobilie for 5 sec), grant full protect buff and Regen on all upon used at Lvl 3.

BRD LB is fine the way it is.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

sure, they have time and money at sink to make a LB only for one jobs....

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Yet cheezy f2p games can.

This one time, the entire party was dead except for me and over time I built up the limit break and used it and it revived the whole party. Wait, I didn't attack the Bard. Sorry.

-_-

Bards limit is fine. Just fine.

Eh, I used to dislike it but it's kinda cool. Might save a party. Healers usually die before the Bard too. To make a Bard really supportive though, I say give it ALL the Limit Breaks, and let them choose each time. That'd be sweet.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Eh, I used to dislike it but it's kinda cool. Might save a party. Healers usually die before the Bard too. To make a Bard really supportive though, I say give it ALL the Limit Breaks, and let them choose each time. That'd be sweet.

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Great way to get rid of melee and casters. lol

It wont be "Ranged only" it will be "BARD Only"

I don't have any issue with BRD having the healer LB. It's saved my bacon a time or two, since when the tanks go down, the healers are usually soon to follow. By the time the healers can see that a mass rez is going to be needed, they're already being beaten on and will probably be dead before they're able to activate the LB.

That said, I'll admit that I'm disappointed that there are only three different kinds of LB. I'd prefer each job to have their own distinct LB - or, at the very least, if the LB is going to do the same thing, they should have a different animation for it, like MNKs using a flurry of punches, DRG doing a huge thrusting attack, or whatever.

LBs should be a "signature move" for each job, but right now they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Merle

Mmmmmm from that point of view, i could say Monk is a support class too since they can decrease blunt resistance full time

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Blunt damage is mnk only so it's not really a party buff. Dragoon's ability buffs bard damage in addition to their own (2 jobs). The bard foe requiem also buffs damage from 2 jobs. Dragoon can keep theirs up full time, bard cannot.

I'll give BRDs a limit if it's accompanied by a hard nerf to their DPS.

So much that it makes them the lowest DPS in the game.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Bard is a DPS job with utility built in. Stop spreading misinformation based on bad role distribution.

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Hmm what ? The only reason the bard is a dps in FFXIV is the fact that we don't have a support role in the game. I'm curious to know any FF game where the bard wasn't a support besides XIV

Off-topic: I couldn't possibly be the only person who was expecting the OP to actually list a 1,000 reasons. It would have been an interesting read.

On-topic: I personally like the utility the healing LB give BRD. I know many don't agree with SE's view on this, or mine for that matter. I suppose it stems from that fact that I don't see BRD as only a DPS class even if it's classified as one in a trinity setup (Tank, Healer, DPS). I can see BRD being moved to the fable "hybrid" class as the game matures and expansions come out. Perhaps Ranger will be added off the Archer class as a DPS class? I also veiw LB's a little different as well, I see tham as a group action an not an individual's action. :X

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Originally Posted by Steffie

You know what these archer's LB should be changed into ?

I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, unlimited blade works.

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Unlimited Blade Works? Is Excalibur Replica inside too?

I'm with Dijana. One example of a BRD stupidly using the LB doesn't give enough of a reason to change the LB. I just don't see SE changing the BRD lb to make it the same as a melee lb. a brd is suppose to be a support class, not a dps class. i'd rather see the brd move more towards support. if the BRD lb is changed away from healing, it definitely should not be a damage lb. like others have said, then you're really just asking for parties to never include a mnk or drg.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

First thing is to dispel this notion that Bard is not a damage class but a support class. They clearly are damage and a good one will be at or near the top damage output, especially in fights that require a lot of movement. Yes they have support, but so does Drg. Drg can increase piercing damage for party drg and brd FULL TIME. Brd can increase magic damage for the casters (which does the brd itself no good) and refresh but is limited by their MP and so cannot be buffing full time.

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# of ways a BRD can support the party > # of ways a DRG can support a party. Thus, BRD more of a support class than DRG.

I love that clueless people are still riding the "melee are only used for LB" train.
If any job's spot in a group is hinging on one ability, it's bards with their ballad.

why not just make the BRD Limit Break a little more dynamic?

like...

stage 1 could be just damage. most likely an AoE of raining arrows. maybe apply a DoT. (i dunno. something)
stage 2 could be the above + some healing.
stage 3 could be all of the above + a player buff of some sort for the entire party.

and of course with each stage the effects should be a little more greater. as with normal.


because of the mix. the damage obviously can't be as high as caster or melee damage LB. so the damage has to do something useful. either like a DoT. or something detrimental to the enemies. it should maybe last 20~30seconds. depending on the effects. it also shouldn't be something a resistance can be built up against. cause then it could be just rendered completely useless by other players.

the healing is just healing. nothing special. but maybe a dispel and/or HoT? it could just be plain healing though and still be useful.

the buff could be something simple like +damage. or maybe Haste. i'm sure there are other beneficial buffs. but it should be something that will useful no matter the circumstance.



i mean like... yeah BRD is supposed to end up being capable of a supportive role. but it is a damage role. and the game doesn't have a specified role for support. so the game also shouldn't limit the BRD's Limit Break to simply healing.

It wouldn't be too bad if the game didn't keep giving you parties with just bards for dps.

I'm not sure if it's because the game doesn't try not to put the same classes in one group unless it has too or if it does, but it doesn't matter because bards outnumber the other dps by so large a margin.