2.2 Retainers via Microtransactions

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Originally Posted by Finuve

And you dont get to define P2W, P2W is different for everyone. The fact that everyones example is always "Its not going to help you clear coil so its not P2W" is flat wrong. Someones definition of winning may be collecting large amounts of gil, retainers clearly help with that.
me

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Someone finally managed to articulate my thoughts on P2W.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Um, I don't get it lol
It's better to have the item instantly when paying for it, than it is to work and play the game towards it...?

As a player I'd like to think that the more things I can do in-game - The better. I'd like every single thing to be obtainable in game, even if it's super rare or take days to reach to - more goals for me.

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it's not a goal they want people to have. it's an option they have to offer because some people truly regret their design choices but by design (of wanting people to be attached to a single character), they don't want that as an in game goal for people to race change every month or so.

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Originally Posted by Valendred

Someone finally managed to articulate my thoughts on P2W.

Thank you.

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The question, then, is what are you going to DO with all that gil?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's not a goal they want people to have. it's an option they have to offer because some people truly regret their design choices but by design (of wanting people to be attached to a single character), they don't want that as an in game goal for people to race change every month or so.

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FFXIV: A restriction reborn. The whole game is already locked out. I don't see why not put a lockout on that if that was a problem for them. I somehow lean to believe it's to get more money on top of a sub and not because "they don't want people to race change every month or so."

In fact, having it on an online store with no lockout, would allow players to change every month or so, while having a lockout in game would not.

I'm trully split with this one....

It's great that dumb people are now paying for more resources in the game I love. It's also concerning when taking into account the slippery slop theory of where this can go.

All I can say is, if they advertise in game for players to make these purchase, I will get agitated by it all real fast. SE's is walking a dangerous line with this one.

I'm a bit concerned where this is going.
I can understand server transfers being an optional service outside the game but changing looks and now item storage... I've played enough f2p mmos to see the bad direction because those 2 items are the top sellers in a cash-shop!

If it really comes to the point where we can buy additional inventory space, I can see the game losing players and eventually go f2p, regardless of what Yoshida said or promised...

No need to be concerned - Gamers want this kind of system as they continue to buy unfinished games, pay for DLC and continue to make F2P and P2W games popular. Every game eventually will follow suit because it's an obvious source of revenue ANY company would want to tap into.

You don't need more than two retainers anyway. With two, you have more than enough space to have all your crafting materials, gear, and other items.

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Originally Posted by Valendred

Someone finally managed to articulate my thoughts on P2W.

Thank you.

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There were many players that said Diablo 3 wasn't Pay to Win with the RMT AH. They said that "You can't p2w in PVE content!"
All of them were crazy though. Items that weren't that good was selling for a max of 250 irl dollars.

While I do think that it's a minor infraction against the player base to charge for extra retainers, I wish they wouldn't. I'm torn between being upset and realizing it's not that much of a big deal.

I will not be purchasing an extra retainer though, I don't agree with it so I just won't. It's the best way to send the message "hey don't do this in the future".

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

While I do think that it's a minor infraction against the player base to charge for extra retainers, I wish they wouldn't. I'm torn between being upset and realizing it's not that much of a big deal.

I will not be purchasing an extra retainer though, I don't agree with it so I just won't. It's the best way to send the message "hey don't do this in the future".

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Yep, but they know they can make a pretty penny on their players, otherwise they'd what they did in FFXI...yeah even though mentioning XI on XIV forums causes die hard XIV ARR fans to want to kill people, they offered a Mog Case and Mog Satchel free of charge that evolves with your native inventory space...so

Yeah. They didn't even have to charge, but they know they can rake in some money.

Normally this wouldn't bother me, I wish they had gone the way XI did, give the extra inventory space for having a security token instead of the free teleport location, but I think it bothers me a bit now because of recent interviews Yoshi has had. Even though it isn't much of an advantage right now, over time the extra inventory space could become more useful, and we still don't know much about the venture system, everyone is making assumptions off of a couple screenshots, and I'm pretty sure those were tagged with the in development things can change tagline, but I could see an extra retainer for ventures give a little in game advantage. Yoshi has recently said he doesn't think you should get stronger or have more of an advantage just because of time played, like merits or something, but he is ok with giving in game advantages for more money.

Once they start selling retainers for real cash, i unsub untill they stop.

Don't know what's worse: That SE is planning these kinds of business practices in a sub-based MMO or that people are defending said business practices.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I pay $15 a month with the mindset that by doing so, I am on an even playing field with everyone else gameplay wise. Adding separate, non-vanity services outside of the sub fee without even making it available in game is pretty awful. Even WoW kept it's cash shop strictly vanity until very recently.

If this goes live, I recommend everyone who dislikes it simply unsub. A million posts on a forum counts for nothing, unless those posts are concurrent with revenue being lost. Your wallet speaks louder than your words.

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

Once they start selling retainers for real cash, i unsub untill they stop.

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Well, goodbye then :/

See you again either never or in a very long time

It was already their plan since 2010...so I don't think anyone came into any surprises unless they didn't keep up with ARR development lol.

Nope, I don't want this, ever. I pay a subscription to get access to everything in the game without ever worrying about paying more (minus expansions). This smacks of greed and will leave a VERY bitter taste in my mouth if it is implimented.

"Pay to Win" are you people serious? Win at what, exactly? Gathering? Fashion?

If this alone is making you unsub, you weren't going to sub for much longer anyway.

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Originally Posted by OMEGAlomania

Nope, I don't want this, ever. I pay a subscription to get access to everything in the game without ever worrying about paying more (minus expansions). This smacks of greed and will leave a VERY bitter taste in my mouth if it is implimented.

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You're aware that some people have things that you don't because they paid $20 to upgrade to the collector's edition right?

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

No need to be concerned - Gamers want this kind of system as they continue to buy unfinished games, pay for DLC and continue to make F2P and P2W games popular. Every game eventually will follow suit because it's an obvious source of revenue ANY company would want to tap into.

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This. /10chr

Quite disgusted.

It's basically just returning to the FFXI model of alternate characters as paid storage. This is probably the reason they don't let us send things to our other characters.

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

You don't need more than two retainers anyway. With two, you have more than enough space to have all your crafting materials, gear, and other items.

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For now. lol

You think that if there is a potentional to make more money out of that, that will stay the case in the future?

I can't walk into GameStop and demand an additional Xbox controller (for no charge) because I bought the platform and pay for XBL...

I mean in FFXI you could buy a Security Token that gave you a new inventory bag when registered...

There was a jewelry pendant you could buy that gave you a in-game item with a free teleport....



Whiney whine whine. It'd be micro-transactions if they demanded you pay 99 cents every time you wanted to use Sprint. Or made you pay 99 cents to refill your arrows on Bard.

Those are examples of what would qualify as micro-transactions...

I'm fine with name changes, race changes, pets and glamour related things to have a fee. But an actual purchaseable advantage in a subscription based game? Are you serious?

Anyway, if they even touch on P2W, I'm out. Isn't it enough for Yoshi that (according to his claims) more than 1.8 million people pay for subscription?

I had high hopes for this game. I gave it time, I met awesome people, but if they introduce any form of P2W I'll quit.

Pity though, I finally thought I found a decent MMO worth playing, and then this happens.

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Originally Posted by Immut

"You're aware that some people have things that you don't because they paid $20 to upgrade to the collector's edition right?

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I have CE anyway, that got upgraded automatically.... and nothing in it is actually usefull or functions differently than any in game mounts/minion anyway. The exception being the WoL helm, but ANYONE who pre-ordered ARR or had 1.XX has an equivelent item anyway, and even then the bonus is so low it's barely even worth mentioning. And even THEN, paying for extra vanity at the initial purchase is very different to paying during your subscription time for items and an actual in game bonus that many pople will find usefull.

Retainers are a huge bonus for anyone interested in crafting, I have two right now and they are both practically full. Managing drops between then is a headache, and if I were to start another DoL class I doubt I would be able to keep my mats anywhere.

The bottom line is, if I am paying for a subscription, I expect everything AFTER that initial purchase to be included within it that isn't expansion content..... and I don't understand why anyone would think that is unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

It's basically just returning to the FFXI model of alternate characters as paid storage. This is probably the reason they don't let us send things to our other characters.

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Assuming this is an extra charge per month like XI characters were. We really know nothing about this at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Immut

You're aware that some people have things that you don't because they paid $20 to upgrade to the collector's edition right?

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The funny thing is, as a owner of collector edition myself, I never even noticed this. Well done sir.

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

I'm fine with name changes, race changes, pets and glamour related things to have a fee. But an actual purchaseable advantage in a subscription based game? Are you serious?

Anyway, if they even touch on P2W, I'm out. Isn't it enough for Yoshi that (according to his claims) more than 1.8 million people pay for subscription?

I had high hopes for this game. I gave it time, I met awesome people, but if they introduce any form of P2W I'll quit.

Pity though, I finally thought I found a decent MMO worth playing, and then this happens.

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Bye, we'll miss you!

So ridiculous, just cannot even think of the words to express how dumb this is.

"FFXI model" are exist, you people, the reduced subscription free lets you play 1 character per world as opposed to 8.

This is p2w shit that doesn't belong in a mmorpg with subscription.

Back in 11 i have like 4-5 mule, so i don;t see a problem with this.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Back in 11 i have like 4-5 mule, so i don;t see a problem with this.

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I don't remember being able to send my mules to gather ingredients in XI.

I don't remember retainer can garden. Back in xi many of us have many extra mule setup just for gardening for profit. Get it a grip. And many people do not understand what p2w mean; by all mean try out Tera and you will understand what p2w is.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I don't remember retainer can garden. Back in xi many of us have many extra mule setup just for gardening for profit. Get it a grip. And many people do not understand what p2w mean; by all mean try out Tera and you will understand what p2w is.

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What you're not realizing is, this is just the beginning of how a game evolves into p2w.

Vanilla 1.0 was setup to have an additional fee for extra retainers. Due to the obvious nightmare launch it was never put in place. This doesn't surprise me one bit.

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Originally Posted by rhemi1

If this goes live, I recommend everyone who dislikes it simply unsub. A million posts on a forum counts for nothing, unless those posts are concurrent with revenue being lost. Your wallet speaks louder than your words.

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Same here. In fact I just unsubbed in case I forget. 27 days left so it should go well into the next patch. Didnt even have a "Why are you leaving?" thing at the end...
http://24.media.tumblr.com/486e18ae6...d7g8o2_400.gif

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

Bye, we'll miss you!

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Such constructive and meaningful answer.

Were you trying to be funny or sarcastic? Because neither worked.

If they are going to implement any sort of micro-transactions, I'm out.

I guarantee it.

FFXI Extra Characters- Mules in most peoples eyes ( used for storing items, and in that game you got even LESS storage space 30 spaces.. need 6 Mules to roughly equal 1 retainer XD.
FFXIV Extra Retainers- Used for storing items.

The only difference is Extra Retainers give you A LOT more space. Not exactly sure how this equals- P2W It's not like your retainer is giving you the best gear in the game (or any gear for that manner) for free right?

This whole Retainer Venture thing could be something sort of a "Gobbie bag" type thing from FFXI, except as you level up your retainer you get more storage space.

Edit: Personally, I don't see why people need more then the 2 that they are giving. I have a feeling this feature won't be used a lot.

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Originally Posted by Songi

What you're not realizing is, this is just the beginning of how a game devolves into p2w.

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fixed that for u.