This game is not for Melee

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruri

Me cus I'm lazy heh. Although for dungeons and CT etc I like to go as melee since its more fun. but for primals imo its must easier to pwn through it on brd.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

I started the game as a Dragoon. It's fun poking boss from the back and rear with a minimum of 2 filled hotbar of 24 skills to spam and combo, but I think I find it more fun and having more purpose as a Bard :p

---

Started out as a SMN, BRD, BLM, recently went over to DRG. From boring to finger spamming excitement. To each his own i guess ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Actually, why are people so insistent that melees will always out DPS ranged in Primal EX?

IDK. To me it can be situational. I've been invited to this LS of skilled players and we have been clearing EMs without a static for weeks, one shotting them. We sold runs together, we did solo heals and what not. These players are definitely skilled and know their stuff. But as a BRD there are times that I could outdo a melee, albiet not a large margin.

---

Actually, if you read the arguement, it's about melee getting OUTDPS'd by a range, last time I check, the term OUTDPS'd is used if the damage gap is by a large margin. I never said that when melee gets compared to a range, it's an instant melee win, range can win ofcourse, been there done that (my main is a BRD), but as you've said it's not by a large margin, hence the OUTDPS'd term should be out of context.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcusow86

Who wants to play a boring range DPS when you can play a 24 move set Melee DPS XD

---

Try to kill Twintania with 4 melees. Twisters will be fun :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alcyon1

Try to kill Twintania with 4 melees. Twisters will be fun :)

---

Have done it with three while single tanking, was fun.
not sure about four though ^^

Hahah, this kid.

"Hey Im a monk w/o BfB. I never cleared anything passed Titan hm, but melee is so bad. Especially in Coil and extremes where ranged are so darn overpowered. I want to out dps all ranged w/o BfB, so SE needs to buff melee, especially monks.

I tell people to learn my class so they know what they talk about. All other classes don't have a wind up time when Titan jumps. Only monk does. Monk is one of the few classes that can keep the motor going, but let's just ignore that and troll this forum."

E sports.. you're a complete joke. Sad thing is, SE actually listens to whiners. We just witnessed the average whiner.. gg SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorauku

Actually, if you read the arguement, it's about melee getting OUTDPS'd by a range, last time I check, the term OUTDPS'd is used if the damage gap is by a large margin. I never said that when melee gets compared to a range, it's an instant melee win, range can win ofcourse, been there done that (my main is a BRD), but as you've said it's not by a large margin, hence the OUTDPS'd term should be out of context.

---

Well if the "out dps" meant by a large margin.. I agree it's not really possible most of the times >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meledps

Here is example for you Titan HM/EX, when it go in the air all my buff are gone and then again long time to get them back..........and if u talks bout perfect balance its on long cool down lol,
Also at melee range u can still hit, melee at distance cant. learn a bit about other classes and come back

---

You know that Titan got a HP treshold before jumpin so you can totally adjust your rotation in order to be sure to have GL 3 refreshed right before he jump ?

Its not up to SE to balance that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Takes way more skill to play melee than ranged honestly. If you say otherwise, you're lying to yourself.

---

Dude... did you even bother looking at what my main class is? Right there next to the avatar? :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alcyon1

I uualy raid with my BRD in FC (I'm the only BRD available for Twintania) and my BLM in GF (easier to find a group). I have this lame joke :
-If you are too bad to tank, play a healer.
-If you are too bad to play a healer, play a DPS.
-If you are too bad to play a DPS, play a BRD.
-If you are too bad to play a BRD, try Hello Kitty Online.

---

I can see your point but here is my version.

-If your DPS is bad and doesn't improve overtime, play a healer.
-If you are too bad to healer, play a tank.
-If you are too bad to play a tank, play a BRD.
-If you are too bad to play a BRD, try Hello Kitty Online.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oblit

I can see your point but here is my version.

-If your DPS is bad and doesn't improve overtime, play a healer.
-If you are too bad to healer, play a tank.
-If you are too bad to play a tank, play a BRD.
-If you are too bad to play a BRD, try Hello Kitty Online.

---

Harsh but quoted for truth. Thats pretty much sums up the difficulty tree.

To OP;
Yes there are a lot of fights in the end game that weigh heavily on melee dps in terms of randomly turning around, jumping away, doing something else etc, but in time you will learn to expect these things and work around them. For things out of your hands, for example Garuda EX turning to do frictions and what not, you can't do anything but lose potency on your attacks, and for Twintania @ the last phase, not much you can do when she spams liquid hells @ ppl and you can't get flank/back attacks due to her excessive facing target spam, but there's not much else to do.

For ranged dps in a lot of fights also there is annoying mechanics, for SMN who needs to recast dots but periods of time upto 10+ seconds where u cannot stand still is a major dps loss, same for BLM, if there is times where u have to keep moving, or need to keep stopping and moving all the time the DPS will be lower, but for these 2 classes, if there is multiple targets their DPS goes up extremely high(for fluff mobs, BLM will increase massively, for SMN when there is bigger targets, e.g dreadknights, or garuda adds etc, they will beat out all dps 9/10). The only ranged class that has it "easy" is bard, and if there is no heavy usage of ballads(EX Primals for example) then Bard will always win DPS meter for these fights due to their mechanics they can keep 24/7 dps going all the time, and bard actually do very very respectable dmg, the only time they are going to do low dps is when the fights are longer and ballads are needed, for example Twintania, bard should always be bottom for this kind of lengthly fight.

To others in the thread;
Measuring DPS is one thing, but you all want to be looking @ TOTAL DMG done, BLM can get insane DPS just by aoe'ing a shit load of mobs like in turn 4, or garuda EX adds(of which I ignore as a MNK as they go down near on instantly in the latter phases).
The reason dps is lower for mnks in EX primals is due to the nature of the stopping and starting of the fights, always having to rebuild those GL stacks, if you time correctly you can keep stacks going through most parts of Garuda, only losing them when she 2HRs, for Titan you cant really do much about losing stacks when he jumps away, unless you literally get that perfect refresh just as he jumps up and get one or two steps into next rotation before he flies away. You should never lose stacks during bomb phases as you can actually hit the bombs to keep stacks.

Remebering all of these things, in longer fights you will see higher DPS overall and total dmg done overall, but it varies from fight to fight, I normally am 1st DPS on all turns of coil due to the longer nature of the fights, maybe i will drop to 2nd every now and again, on 1-4 but 5 its always the same due to the length of the fight and barely losing stacks (only during 1st dive bombs, MAYBE when getting distance to avoid Dreadknight).

Basically, don't feel bad that you are not the top dog in DPS, some fights just aren't suited towards melee, thats just the nature of the game, there are tricks you can pull off to cut some corners but the mechanics of the fight will always determine in the end. It's really about learning how much you can push the encounter to use every little second to dps without eating some aoe or doing something else wrong, once you get better uptime your total dmg will go way up. You will always be lower DPS for shorter fights with a lot of stop/starting mechanics tho.

Sorry for the long-ass post, but just typed what I had on my mind after reading this, just remeber that the DPS is pretty even between the classes atm, only spiking for certain fights, like aoe, or due to negative mechanics for certain classes, I will say that Bard is easily the better dps overall though in regards to the amount of uptime they can maintain, sometimes our bard is a good 5-10k ahead of every1 else on dmg, purely because they can maintain full dps while dodging aoe's or re-positioning, and to the bards in this thread that say melee should win all the fights as top, I think you need to re-evaluate how you play bard :p

Regards!

agreed with this long post ... i play melee and wel i never been told i got bad dps even though some mechanics like u stated above make u lose dmg but its fun pushing ur dmg to the max even though u know an aoe or dodge mechanic will come

All I have to say in regards to this topic is: Garuda Ex. I have been trying to down it for 2 weeks, I've only been relatively close (30%HP) two times. Im confused as to what the problem is (besides difficulty), but I do play as a Monk. As a melee DPS, I need to be catered to for this fight and I feel bad for it. Too many jump phases to capitalize on GL3, not enough AoE to help with plumes. Main concern is Chirada/Suparna split with Tornados. Solo Suparna is fine. The tough part is Shoulder Tackling past tornados to Garuda/Chirada/Suparna HOPING you dont happen to get hit by 1 or 2 Wicked Wheels.

Then hoping your tank is tanking in a spot where Melee can safely avoid additional Wicked Wheels.

THEN hoping between transitions, you maintain your GL3 stacks.

Before you ask, I do know Suparna's Wicked Wheel rotation. Garuda's I do not. And if I ever figure it out, it is still rough to follow both Garuda and Suparna's rotations. Which is why i ask OT to pull Suparna, and all range DPS to focus Chirada in case i do unfortunately get smacked by Garuda's WW.

It hurts me to know how hard it is to be completely useful in this fight as Melee DPS. Especially Monk

@MrDiezel :
1) The Japanese strategy is nice, but most players don't even know it.
2) Your OT takes Chirada and the plume, when Chirada dies, you wait for your OT to taunt Suparna and bring her next to you. If he doesn't, just don't DPS. If they whine, tell them to L2P.

About the plumes, we let the WHM and BLM kill them. If they need you, tell them to L2P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrDiezel

The tough part is Shoulder Tackling past tornados to Garuda/Chirada/Suparna HOPING you dont happen to get hit by 1 or 2 Wicked Wheels.

Then hoping your tank is tanking in a spot where Melee can safely avoid additional Wicked Wheels.

THEN hoping between transitions, you maintain your GL3 stacks.

Before you ask, I do know Suparna's Wicked Wheel rotation. Garuda's I do not. And if I ever figure it out, it is still rough to follow both Garuda and Suparna's rotations. Which is why i ask OT to pull Suparna, and all range DPS to focus Chirada in case i do unfortunately get smacked by Garuda's WW.

It hurts me to know how hard it is to be completely useful in this fight as Melee DPS. Especially Monk

---

The way most NA parties do it wasn't how it was intended to be done, Yoshi-P confirmed himself that the JP method of splitting the sisters and Garuda 3 ways was the intended method. Doing it this way the only wicked wheels you'll get is single ones on the tank and they don't happen anymore once sisters are dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alcyon1

@MrDiezel :
1) The Japanese strategy is nice, but most players don't even know it.
2) Your OT takes Chirada and the plume, when Chirada dies, you wait for your OT to taunt Suparna and bring her next to you. If he doesn't, just don't DPS. If they whine, tell them to L2P.

About the plumes, we let the WHM and BLM kill them. If they need you, tell them to L2P.

---

Ive heard of the Japanese strategy and understand it on a general level. But since I play NA, im not going to bother to explaining and agree upon using it. Most tanks dont want to hear that ish and expect me to suck it up. Some good sucking up a Wicked Wheel does for the party.

Also, not a single OT has ever taken Suparna off the MT. maybe this is the problem?? Id imagine it would be hard given Provoke and Shield Lob/Tomahawk range differences. By the time Sup comes within range, heals/dps are building enmity

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alkimi

The way most NA parties do it wasn't how it was intended to be done, Yoshi-P confirmed himself that the JP method of splitting the sisters and Garuda 3 ways was the intended method. Doing it this way the only wicked wheels you'll get is single ones on the tank and they don't happen anymore once sisters are dead.

---

Is that right... nice to know. Us North American's are infamous for doing things wrong until its right.

The only thing is it requires a bit of co-ordination from the DPS to ensure they're in front of Chirada when she uses Downburst. It's normally a BRD who will end up "tanking" since they can burn cooldowns and grab all the initial hate from range but you want at least 3 people in front of her when it goes off to split the damage, maybe 2 can take it at a push.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrDiezel

Also, not a single OT has ever taken Suparna off the MT. maybe this is the problem?? Id imagine it would be hard given Provoke and Shield Lob/Tomahawk range differences. By the time Sup comes within range, heals/dps are building enmity

---

The tanks have to be close enough when the spiny has 2 stacks and when the Mt taunts the spiny, the OT taunts Suprana and voila. About enmity, this shuldn't be a problem if the MT was on Suprana. The Ot has to take to spiny without using provoke, but this isn"t really hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrDiezel

It hurts me to know how hard it is to be completely useful in this fight as Melee DPS. Especially Monk

---

well i done that fight as melee only problem i get during PF is that the range are not near my item lv so me standing waiting for WW to go off its too much downtime and we bust the sister time... the other option is pop all def cd and fist of earth at take the WW and have the healer top u off before garuda aoe

MrDiezel, I have dps it plenty of times as monk and honestly, it's not a big problem. You don't Shoulder Tackle hoping not to get hit by Wicked Wheel. You should know when it hits to Shoulder Tackle over right after. In tornado phase, this is about 5 seconds after Garuda's Slipstream. Set her on focus target and you'll be fine. If your BLM needs your help with plumes, they're doing it wrong. Just stack up, have the OT pulls spiny away and Flare. I'm only i66 on BLM but my Flare almost killed all the plumes in eye phase yesterday (can't remember since Bard was doing AOE as well). You know, you can walk between tornadoes and never get hit right? There's also a periodical pulse of positional check so you can walk right through the center of them if you hear it just goes off. I enjoy the difficulty greatly, was kinda bored doing it on BLM yesterday.
As for maintaining GL3, you don't need to get it up right away in the eye phase. For tornado phase use this opener on Chirada/Suparna whichever one you're on:
ToD -> PB -> Demo -> B4B -> SP -> IR -> SP -> TwS -> DK -> BS -> TS -> etc
PB has a 3 minute CD timer so it might not be up every other tornado phase.

Op is correct. Not like other game, This game hate melee. Anyone here against you is trolling. If you play a melee, you looking for some challenge in this game. I have beat T5 as melee, as tank, as healer. What I can tell is melee DPS won't have good quality of live in this game. Most time you won't find a group need you. Drop melee DPS and play others will be best for you since you are still new to the game.
Brd is the easiest job to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neoreturn

Brd is the easiest job to play.

---

It's also does less damage than all the other dps jobs, and lower than mnk/drg by quite a margin. Good parties never use more than 1 brd for anything, crappy party finder parties want all ranged because they only know 1 single way to kill anything (which they usually fail at anyway), Garuda Ex being the classic example.

It also doesn't help that 90% of MNKs and DRGs have no clue how to play their jobs effectively, I've seen a near full i90 DRG in CT using nothing but Full Thrust (not even on combo) over and over.

only full thrust.... thats interesting maybe he liked the animation a lot lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neoreturn

Op is correct. Not like other game, This game hate melee. Anyone here against you is trolling. If you play a melee, you looking for some challenge in this game. I have beat T5 as melee, as tank, as healer. What I can tell is melee DPS won't have good quality of live in this game. Most time you won't find a group need you. Drop melee DPS and play others will be best for you since you are still new to the game.
Brd is the easiest job to play.

---

Funny. I played a LOT of game where melee had the same DPS of any ranged and you still had to avoid shit all the time. Try T5 with 4 bards (2 tanks strategy) : not impossible, but it will be fun. T5 is typically a fight where melees can shine, they don't have to dodge a gazillon AOE's and most of the time Twintania doesn't even move. Keeping a good DPS against Titan EX as a BLM is a harder than keeping GL3 as a MNK. What did you expect ? A cakewalk as a melee + 3 times more DPs than a ranged ?

If this game "isn't for melee" as the OP suggests, then ALL progression groups would be running with all ranged DPS.
That's not happening, so the OP is wrong.
Plain and simple.

Melee have strengths and weaknesses, just like EVERY other class.

Each dps class has its own strength.
SMN able to dot multiple things
BLM king of AOE burst
MNK/DRG powerful single target
BRD very mobile and has a lot of utility

Melee dps are by far the highest dps on single target, ive been in parties with 2 MNK on Titan ex, and they could destroy heart phase before circle bombs! Never happens without 2 melee dps. (that is without LB)

This thread is full of BS. Enough of internet for today..

It's pretty much the problem with all modern MMO's, they make these big elaborate fights, but don't stop to consider there will be people up close hitting the bosses. In the end you get fights heavily skewed to stacking ranged over bringing any number of melee.

This game is still a little more friendly to melee compared to say SWTOR was, but still not a whole lot better.

Was going to reply with something complex and elaborate but I just realized it would be a waste of my time on this post.....

The title of this thread needs to be changed to "melee is not for me"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meledps

I can't stay out of the sauce.

---

Sponsored by E-Sports

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meledps

Having hit 50 and exp all level 50 and low level dungeons, i can easily said that this game is not for melee style play, most mobs attacks are just pure against melee, running out and such, playing is monk is worst in any game.


Looks like SE doesn't know how to balance melee and range or design content that balance it out.

First post in form and might be last one.

---

melee is ez mode for most encounters, I'd say maybe one or two boss fights legit are difficult for melee. Most of the time when your running out of stuff though it's simple and you can plan your rotations around when it's going to happen; plus you don't have to worry about cast speeds.

Range have just as much trouble with movement as melee. Range has just as much trouble keeping buffs up as melee.

To me this sounds more like, "This game doesn't let me faceroll and be number 1 on dps chart"

Learn to play, a good portion of our coil groups, our melee does the most dps and damage, followed by the summoner, but if melee slacks summoner take it, and that's because as a summoner we always have damage going.. but we still have to worry about keeping our dots up, timing our cooldowns so we don't run into mana issues and can always Fester at the right times, making sure Rouse and Spur are being used correctly, WHILE running around and avoiding all the damage. Melee just has some issues where they have to avoid tail swipe and boss aoe, range has to avoid random red circles, adds, boss aoe effects, rot, lazers, and various other things all while keeping our damage up. And those poor black mages, who are usually pulling big numbers, but have those 2.5 and 3.5 second cast timers while dodging.. yeah :(

Love Bard (should've started with it like I did in the beta), but I generally love archery both in games and real life. I've been wanting to try Monk with my secondary character. It seems very interesting. And since I've learned to dodge with style, skill, and more finesse than a shampoo commercial, I'm not really worried about aoes or attack patterns :)