Hard time choosing my DPSer.

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02-13-2014, 03:41 AM
T0rin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

Funny, DoT is the only thing summoner use (other than the pet). Give me another reason why summoner is the least played job? None.

Because people suck at the game and have a hard time playing a class that isn't a complete faceroll.
02-13-2014, 03:50 AM
Asdamine

Quote:

Originally Posted by T0rin

Because people suck at the game and have a hard time playing a class that isn't a complete faceroll.

Ehm... good reason.

lol. +1
02-13-2014, 03:53 AM
PArcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by T0rin

Because people suck at the game and have a hard time playing a class that isn't a complete faceroll.

I still see people fail at PLD though, so that can't be right...
02-13-2014, 03:54 AM
T0rin

Quote:

Originally Posted by PArcher

I still see people fail at PLD though, so that can't be right...

Further proof that it's right, actually.
02-13-2014, 03:57 AM
PArcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by T0rin

Further proof that it's right, actually.

Pressing only 1-2-3 is hard?
02-13-2014, 04:01 AM
T0rin

Quote:

Originally Posted by PArcher

Pressing only 1-2-3 is hard?

No, but if people fail at that, it is further proof for why SMN is the least played job.

2-3-4-1-Alt+1-Ctrl+3-Ctrl+4-Ctrl+1-Ctrl+1-1-Alt+1-Ctrl+1-Ctrl+1-4-3-Ctrl+1-2-Alt+1-1+Alt+2 ... ah forget it.
02-13-2014, 04:08 AM
Aphrini

LOL us Summoners have nothing to prove to any of you, look we don't need you if you can't see how amazing we are at what we do, good. You are unworthy of the horn and our DPS speaks for itself and frankly our job has too many idiots "Pressing 1-2-3" as it was so eloquently put. Which job is the best SMN don't agree? Good, need me to convince you? lol, NO...

*edit I threw in a ' wtf lol error fixed.
02-13-2014, 04:13 AM
EasymodeX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

Funny, DoT is the only thing summoner use (other than the pet). Give me another reason why summoner is the least played job? None.

1. Pets. Many players actually don't like dealing with pets and will specifically avoid pet classes.

2. They share the same role space as BLMs. BLMs were purportedly OP in FF11/14 vanilla. That bias carried over.

3. Parsers sucked at DoTs early on.

4. Idiots still ignore the pet for parses.

5. In addition to #1, the pet UI is exceptionally "meh" in FF14, in addition to the macro side.

6. Variable timing of DoTs and other special effects. It's difficult for players with IQ<50 to deal with the concept of extending DoTs via contagion and Bane'ing them to apply to multiple targets.

7. Conceptually BLMs have a longer following in the FF14 history.

8. The SMN summons are not epic. Instant downer for any FF-vet who sees the egis.

9. Hybrid healer. Some people are piss-scared of playing a base ACN class that has heals because they think people will make them heal.

There's quite a few reasons that mostly fall into the categories of "BLMz r k3wl" and "lol pet class lol" that skew the population away from Summoners.

It's no surprise the job is underpopulated. At all.

The DoT-based nature of the class is a legitimate 10th reason people may avoid the class. It's far and away not the only reason someone would avoid playing a SMN, however.
02-13-2014, 04:19 AM
Asdamine

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

snip

So, when you first look at the description of the summoner class, and I mean really first time touching anything related to FF14 or at character creation, the first thing (or things) you see with your eyes are "parsers"; "black mage"; "UI"; "FF-vet" and "role sharing"...?

Ehm... Ok, sure... lol...
02-13-2014, 04:20 AM
ticdup

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

8. The SMN summons are not epic. Instant downer for any FF-vet who sees the egis.

This is always the most curious complaint people have. Never understood it. For most non-XI FF games, summons are those things that you summon once as soon as you get it and go, "Wow that 2-minute scene intro of the big thing falling out of the sky and turning the world on fire was cool. But now that that is over with, I'll never be doing that again but that took too long and the outcome was underwhelming." Especially for those who remember when summoning only elicited cursing because those 2minute scenes weren't skippable.
02-13-2014, 04:33 AM
EasymodeX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

So, when you first look at the description of the summoner class, and I mean really first time touching anything related to FF14 or at character creation, the first thing (or things) you see with your eyes are "parsers"; "black mage"; "UI"; "FF-vet" and "role sharing"...?

Ehm... Ok, sure... lol...

When you first look at the forums and ask about what's a good DPS class, and everyone and their idiot brother says that SMNs do crappy DPS according to early versions of parsers, you might avoid the class.

When you first load up the game and you remember how cool your black mage from FF1 was, and how iconic Vivi is with the cone hat, yeah. Black Mage. Summoners have been popular in FF as well, however their look and lore have changed and never been as consistent and clear as Black Mages.

By level 10-20, if you hate the pet controls, yes many players reroll something else. In addition, many players who have played other MMORPGs may just avoid pet classes in general, especially if they've been burned by them before (lol WAR WL pathing at release).

Ehm. Yeah. Lol. Ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ticdup

This is always the most curious complaint people have. [..] Especially for those who remember when summoning only elicited cursing because those 2minute scenes weren't skippable.

Haha, while people were annoyed at the silly long disc-era summon animations, summons themselves have always been big and badass. A giant Ifrit flying across the screen with fire flashing everywhere ... not a small pet poking a plastic fist at the enemy.

It's a bit underwhelming if you care/cared a lot about the FF summons in general.
02-13-2014, 04:50 AM
Asdamine

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

snip

1st paragraph - No one said anything about summoner doing crap dps in this entire thread, and you won't find info on "crap" dps from character creation now, would it?;

2nd paragraph - The OP is a newbie started a week ago, I don't think he will "remember" any non-existent memories from a game he has not yet played;

3nd Paragraph - Some of us already said that... why are you repeating it?

Ehm, yeah, lol, ok.
02-13-2014, 04:52 AM
kukurumei

Quote:

Originally Posted by PArcher

BRD is necessary? Interesting. The only reason we bring a BRD to 1-4 is for Silences on ADS since we have PLD/WAR and no MNK (and our "main" BRD is actually a meh-geared alt of one of our DRG, only used for ADS; he doesn't even BRD Caddie), OR we're down a DPS for the week and since BRD gear is the only gear we don't need, we grab a BRD (MNK gear is claimed by someone).

We've downed T4 many times without a BRD (in fact, our best ones have been DRG, DRG, MNK, SMN, don't even have to worry which Dread eats the bugs in P6 with that set-up), and probably will only need one when we actually start trying to down T5...until we know the fight, which then the BRD will be useless again.

And yes...we have a SMN in our Static...and he's more than able to be the only magic DPS in T4.

We have done it without a bard in T4, it was like pulling teeth

Healer: pulling teeth in p5 mp is critically low, living on spell to spell.
Melee : fcking peon where's my peon
Tanks: OMFG I ran out of TP for the first time
blm: sorry was just short due to bad grouping, anyone have a foe requiem.

Having a bard makes everything better!

Tanks and melees have their TP through the fight. No one looses enmity, no one runs out of TP from aoe spam
Blms have no problem downing phase 2-4 with foe
healers have no problem with P5 with soul voice ballad

Enrage, what enrage?
and bard puts up impressive dps even without those stuff (the brd can also spam AoE with peon, adding a full aoe team).

Smn excuse 1: dps!
When you talk about dps, SMN aren't impressive, they burst badly, and it takes time

Smn excuse 2: Parsers are wrong
Yes it's a fight club thing when it comes to parsers, but mnks do just fine parsing and a 3rd of their damage is now on dot too.

Smn excuse 3: versatility
Huh what? combat raise? Brds better support, blms are better aoe, and they can both burst faster, and aoe harder and more consistant

Smn exuse 4: You jut haven't seen good smn
So you need an uber smn to beat the advance of a mediocre brd or blm or mnk?

Smn are very good at enmity in 2.0, but 2.1 made a lot of that irrelevant and mobile. Their super virus was a great thing, but now with anti-bodies, that's all shot up. Smn are very mobile, but with the way fights go, it isn't even much an issue anymore.

There is a place for everyone, but there's no denying Bard is still high high high up in the totem poll.
02-13-2014, 04:53 AM
PArcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

There is a place for everyone, but there's no denying Bard is still high high high up in the totem poll.

...For groups that are bad...

Yes I will keep harping on this because it is true more often than not, outside of a static that has a BRD because they have a person who likes being BRD.

Great...now I need to edit this to correct you again...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

Tanks and melees have their TP through the fight. No one looses enmity, no one runs out of TP from aoe spam

Bad tanks and melee run out of TP. Plain and simple. Learn to manage it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

Blms have no problem downing phase 2-4 with foe

The only reason to bring a BRD...but if you have 2 BLM or BLM SMN, there isn't a reason to just bring the BRD over a second melee

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

healers have no problem with P5 with soul voice ballad

Undergeared WHM may need Ballad...but let me stress it again...undergeared. Past a certain point, and once you know the fight...guess what? No more Ballad...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

and bard puts up impressive dps even without those stuff (the brd can also spam AoE with peon, adding a full aoe team).

And...no. Just no. If a BRD is doing as much damage (especially while singing Ballad or Paeon) as any other DPS...your group sucks. Plain and simple.

EDIT: and I hit my post count for the day! One last thing to say, kukurumei...you're not helping yourself out of the hole you dug with your newest posts. I really do suggest you, and your group, learn how to play your classes much more efficiently. And stop getting out-DPSed by a BRD singing Paeon or Ballad...that shouldn't be happening at all...
02-13-2014, 04:55 AM
kukurumei

Quote:

Originally Posted by PArcher

...For groups that are bad...

Yes I will keep harping on this because it is true more often than not, outside of a static that has a BRD because they have a person who likes being BRD.

That's the same excuse that Wars made in 2.0

Look what happened.
02-13-2014, 05:03 AM
EasymodeX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

1st paragraph - No one said anything about summoner doing crap dps in this entire thread, and you won't find info on "crap" dps from character creation now, would it?;

It was prevalent across the Internet for quite a while.

Quote:

2nd paragraph - The OP is a newbie started a week ago, I don't think he will "remember" any non-existent memories from a game he has not yet played;

Really. A player who gets FF14 without having played any FFs beforehand? Yeah, I wonder what fraction of the population falls under that category.

Quote:

3nd Paragraph - Some of us already said that... why are you repeating it?

"UI";

You really are a dumbass aren't you?
02-13-2014, 05:06 AM
kukurumei

Quote:

Originally Posted by PArcher

<snip>

So all your rebuttal is

You're bad...

Wow, just wow.

FYI, how does a tank(especially pld) "waste" TP from being bad?...Is he not flashing enough (wait that would need more MP a bard would ballad) is he not doing his threat combo[there's only 1] (wait that would mean tp which a bard would peon)

so...the solution is..."stand there" or is there a magical TP speed up trick for plds?

again just wow... "you must be bad" is like the worse internet excuse.
02-13-2014, 05:17 AM
T0rin

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

So all your rebuttal is

You're bad...

Wow, just wow.

...

again just wow... "you must be bad" is like the worse internet excuse.

To be fair, everything in your posts do indicate that you are bad.
02-13-2014, 05:19 AM
Asdamine

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

It was prevalent across the Internet for quite a while.

And why would you expand the scope of this thread to the expanse of the internet? The OP asked a question and you go on talk about parser and internet and idiotic brother, I don't even...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Really. A player who gets FF14 without having played any FFs beforehand? Yeah, I wonder what fraction of the population falls under that category.

OP said he is new, what now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

"UI";

I don't even... wha..?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

You really are a dumbass aren't you?

I answer the OP on point, you just auto-fire like a cowboy, sounds to me you are confused.

LOL
02-13-2014, 05:25 AM
kukurumei

Quote:

Originally Posted by T0rin

To be fair, everything in your posts do indicate that you are bad.

Then what makes the rest of the population that haven't even got to the point at which I(since you're using me as a convenient excuse) have cleared...

bad-er?

Less trash talk, more facts. Only thing said was "I have done it!" So what, it's still pulling teeth.

What does a SMN give me in T4, that a bard doesn't give me, only better and smoother?

This feels like the Warrior 2.0 excuse. "I won't admit it! everyone is bad! nothing is wrong, nothing! they're just doing it wrong"
02-13-2014, 05:32 AM
T0rin

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

Then what makes the rest of the population that haven't even got to the point at which I(since you're using me as a convenient excuse) have cleared...

bad-er?

Well, technically... 'worse'. But yeah, you got the gist. Average player is pretty awful. Even a large portion of people clearing high end content are barely passable.

But, I was not commenting on your achievements, but rather your conclusions about game realities.

BRD is the worst DPS class, hands down, in terms of damage output.

Everything you wrote about states that you think quite to the contrary.

Everything you write about the best DPS class (SMN) is completely off base, showing you have absolutely no knowledge of the actual class. What is clear though, is that you have never seen a good SMN in your life. Which is a pity.

But, just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And on the point of SMN being more effort "to beat the advance of a mediocre brd or blm or mnk", it is called a skill cap. Higher skill caps generally result in better performance. In this case, a good SMN will out perform the aforementioned classes with ease on ~90% of all content.

But, you haven't figured that out yet. Which is what makes you bad. Or at least... ignorant of the realities of the game world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

What does a SMN give me in T4, that a bard doesn't give me, only better and smoother?

DPS.
02-13-2014, 05:32 AM
EasymodeX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

And why would you expand the scope of this thread to the expanse of the internet? The OP asked a question and you go on talk about parser and internet and idiotic brother, I don't even...

You expanded the scope of the discussion to 'anyone'.

Deal with it.

Quote:

OP said he is new, what now?

New to FF14. Are you mentally damaged? You seem to have a hard time reading and comprehending posts.

Quote:

I don't even... wha..?

Looks like you don't even understand your own posts to boot :(.
02-13-2014, 05:36 AM
kukurumei

Quote:

Originally Posted by T0rin

But, just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And on the point of SMN being more effort "to beat the advance of a mediocre brd or blm or mnk", it is called a skill cap. Higher skill caps generally result in better performance. In this case, a good SMN will out perform the aforementioned classes with ease on ~90% of all content.

But, you haven't figured that out yet. Which is what makes you bad. Or at least... ignorant of the realities of the game world.

Those are contradictory....

It's so rare to see because it's so good, because it's rare....but doesn't make it...not good?

I will say you are totally wrong about this so called "skill cap", but whatever I'll give it to you

In the end, wouldn't I still get a bard? because it's tows the line more often?
02-13-2014, 05:37 AM
Aphrini

A bigger horn....that's what it gives you, size matters.
02-13-2014, 05:40 AM
Aphrini

Kuku you are part of the problem, Torin you waste your time on her, you and I know the truth and our DPS outshines them all, lol again we have nothing to prove to you. A fool by any other name is still an idiot.
02-13-2014, 05:51 AM
Seobit

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

What does a SMN give me in T4, that a bard doesn't give me, only better and smoother?

400 dps.

Get new healers. Ballad is crutch. Bards are only good to give us casters foes and please our egos.
02-13-2014, 05:51 AM
Asdamine

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

You expanded the scope of the discussion to 'anyone'.

Funny how people thinks that those words "everyone" and "anyone" mean every single living being on this planet... that's just beyond me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

New to FF14. Are you mentally damaged? You seem to have a hard time reading and comprehending posts.

Really? Do share your thoughts, I am sure you can change the OP's statement that he is new to this game - to - being experienced in Final Fantasy. Go ahead, give it a shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Looks like you don't even understand your own posts to boot :(.

You failed to understand that it was a rhetorical question. /slowclap
02-13-2014, 06:22 AM
T0rin

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

Those are contradictory....

It's so rare to see because it's so good, because it's rare....but doesn't make it...not good?

No, it's so rare to see because it's not easy, because it isn't a complete faceroll like a BRD, which makes it rare. If it were good and easy, then everyone would do it. As is, it's just good. (not that any class is hard, but again.. average player.. bad)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukurumei

I will say you are totally wrong about this so called "skill cap", but whatever I'll give it to you

In the end, wouldn't I still get a bard? because it's tows the line more often?

Do you not understand what a skill cap is? Doesn't seem like it.

But no, if you had the capacity to player a SMN well, the only reason you would 'get a bard' is if your group specifically needed one. Not because you wanted to deal good damage.
02-13-2014, 06:59 AM
EasymodeX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

Funny how people thinks that those words "everyone" and "anyone" mean every single living being on this planet... that's just beyond me...

It seems that there are many things that are beyond you, including the discussion context extending beyond the TC.

Quote:

Really? Do share your thoughts, I am sure you can change the OP's statement that he is new to this game - to - being experienced in Final Fantasy. Go ahead, give it a shot.

It's not my obligation to disprove that unicorns exist. It is incumbent on you to prove that they do.

Quote:

You failed to understand that it was a rhetorical question. /slowclap

You failed to understand what I was responding to. /slowerclap
02-13-2014, 07:56 AM
Kuroyasha

This thread is just full of e-peen

OP, to answer your question, I'd rather have all 4 of those as my dps that you listed; MNK BRD BLM SMN. If you go BLM and you use Apoc in extremes fights where applicable and can move only when necessary, i want you. If you're a BRD who can do great dps while you aren't singing (honestly can do some boss dps while not singing) and use battle voice when ballading so you dont have to sing for as long, i want you.

If you're a mnk who can weave in atks and learn when to apply ToD for sustained dmg through transitions, all while being aware of when mechanics are occuring so you can dodge and still be in GL3 (when applicable, i know sometimes it's just impossible or near impossible) i want you. Not to mention using mantra at opportune moments.

Smn...smn is tricky. I took the time to research best rotations and practice in-game in extremes and what not to maximize my output, thus seeing first-hand just how much practical dmg they can do. I'll always take a good smn. Key word....good. If i see u always waiting till bio 2 runs out b4 re-applying ALL your dots....i dont want you.

Yea drg is nice too. Nothing against it as it provides benefits as well, and when you get that rotation down it feels so good doing that burst. It's just that Id rather have mnk and blm, since I wouldn't replace bard and smn (a good smn).
02-13-2014, 08:30 AM
Asdamine

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

snip

Funny how you never once responded to OP enquires...

http://livenerddierepeat.files.wordp...er-you-say.jpg
02-15-2014, 12:54 AM
Artac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asdamine

¡All the posts!

Your responses in this thread really make me doubt you're living in the same world the rest of us are.

There, there. /headpat
02-15-2014, 02:02 AM
SummonerSenah

Level up multiple DPS jobs so you can fill in as necessary, if you're worried about endgame. Optimizing your skills usually requires having at least 34 levels on your subclasses, so you're going to be leveling multiple classes anyway. I have BLM, BRD, SMN, and MNK all at 50 right now myself. Summoner and monk are my favorites but they are all fun.
02-15-2014, 03:01 AM
kukurumei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Yea drg is nice too. Nothing against it as it provides benefits as well, and when you get that rotation down it feels so good doing that burst. It's just that Id rather have mnk and blm, since I wouldn't replace bard and smn (a good smn).

Drgs are not very tricky, but tricky to realize how strong they are. They are very versatile and while they can't do it like a mnk, they can basically do any part that makes up a whole.

Their piercing debuff also increase bard damages, and bards foe requiem(there's no penality except MP, most brds...just don't do that for some reason) increases blm/smn/sch damage, etc.

One titan EX run was so powerful, the team wiped pushing phases too fast. And it was a line up of drg/brd/brd/blm, basically one triple amplifying force. (Everyone would basically parse like a boss)

So there are synergies that may or may not be obvious. Same with double/triple monks that parse amazingly well forgetting the fact that they're probably getting massive uptime from Dragon kick debuff.

There's no perfect dps, but in general as of 2.1, bard is foremost the lynchpin of dps, that only somewhat changed since 2.0. Drg/mnk share and blm/smn/brd share (weird I know).

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