New 15 minute timer is awful for Primals/Bosses

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

To make people give an honest try. Trying to abandon after 1 or 2 failures isn't an honest try.

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If anyone is vote abandoning in 5 minutes, it means it doesn't matter how many "honest tries" that group does, the group / someone is just too undergeared or underskilled to be worth trying.

Do you really think a group that wipes twice in 5 minutes will do any progress at all on any fight within the duty finder time? Maybe on the very basic content like Ifrit HM, but not on an EX primal, other than maybe one every thousand groups.

I like it. I had some Garuda Extreme groups were we got Garuda to maybe 25%-30% and then the vote abandon pops up right after. The sad part is, it usually goes through. People are just too impatient.

If you are not prepared to put up with first timers or bad players, why would you use the duty finder? On hard fights it's basically there to get some practice in and nothing more.

Nobody wants to learn.

I got Titan on 3rd(well post heart) try, Ifirit on first try. I didn't even bother with Videos.

People need to make mistake to learn.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

If anyone is vote abandoning in 5 minutes, it means it doesn't matter how many "honest tries" that group does, the group / someone is just too undergeared or underskilled to be worth trying.

Do you really think a group that wipes twice in 5 minutes will do any progress at all on any fight within the duty finder time? Maybe on the very basic content like Ifrit HM, but not on an EX primal, other than maybe one every thousand groups.

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Not everyone may be experienced with the fight and people do make mistakes you know.

you can still leave , but you will get the penalty for doing so as deserved

Yeah it was a really good change. People NEED to practice, because it seems many people just want to be carried but high level ones, so they keep DF until find a party that carries them >.<

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

you can still leave AFK , but and you will not get the penalty for doing so as deserved because the system is designed poorly

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Yes, pretty much.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

If anyone is vote abandoning in 5 minutes, it means it doesn't matter how many "honest tries" that group does, the group / someone is just too undergeared or underskilled to be worth trying.

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Fact : you cannot attend a fight if you're undergeared for it

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Do you think this will make people want to hang around and try to function instead of what they were doing previously: carrying you?

No, now you'll just see people go back to AFKing after 2 or so fights.

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The number of people I've seen go AFK maliciously in this sort of context? Maybe one or two. This really isn't as prevalent as you're making it out to be. If someone is that fed up with a group and their vote abandon doesn't pass, they tend to just leave.

Now on the other hand, the number of groups I've seen throw up the vote abandon after one or two wipes? My two hands aren't enough to count them.

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If anyone is vote abandoning in 5 minutes, it means it doesn't matter how many "honest tries" that group does, the group / someone is just too undergeared or underskilled to be worth trying.

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This usually isn't the case. I have had loads of derps happen in the first 5 minutes of a trial fight with groups that still managed to eventually win.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Fact : you cannot attend a fight if you're undergeared for it

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Fact: You're not beating any EX primals on a DF group with the ilv set by SE. I agree the ilv set by some party finder groups are unreasonably high, but i70 for Iffy Ex is unreasonably low, specially for a DF group. Also: Good luck doing Titan EX with 4 ilv67 DPSs learning the fight, tell me how heart, gaols and adds go. Set ilv DPS for Ultima will not kill it before enrage. Set ilv for Pharos Sirius is sure wipe. Set ilv tank for Garuda EX means death on double wicked wheel. I can go on.

Does this apply to groups that don't use DF? While I've never done it, I used to see lots of PF requests for farming Arum Vale first room. Seems like this 15 minute abandon would nerf that and force people back to soul destroying FATE grinds. Preformed groups should be able to choose to abandon at any time.

S.E is just making DF into a place for bad players to practice but really you don't get good practice in with everyone being bad.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Does this apply to groups that don't use DF?

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Doesn't apply to pre mades.

So, let me get this straight. You never were ilvl49 freshly minted to 50 in your AF gear. You never had to struggle to learn a boss. You never wiped, multiple times learning a boss. Sounds like you aren't playing the same game as the rest of us! Instead of whining about having to wait 15 minutes, why not impart some of your "wisdom" to the lesser beings who have caused you to waste 15 minutes of your precious game time waiting on the timer. Perhaps you could look over their gear and make some recommendations. Perhaps you could discuss tactics and GASP explain the raid for the tank, the dps, the healer who aren't living up to your expectations of instant perfection.

Sorry, no sympathy from this player. I like the change. It may mean a bit longer of a wait, but that is ok with me. BTW, if this person was so bad why didn't your raid vote kick them and replace them? Use (abuse) it too often or just no one else agreed to kick them? No wonder there is a shortage of tanks....

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Originally Posted by Kelvani

So, let me get this straight. You never were ilvl49 freshly minted to 50 in your AF gear. You never had to struggle to learn a boss. You never wiped, multiple times learning a boss..

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This is very much the mentality on any NA/EU server in MMORPGs.

I'm not sure why there's a timer at all. If the majority of the party wants out, let them out.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

I'm not sure why there's a timer at all. If the majority of the party wants out, let them out.

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Because on the NA/EU datacenters it's usually a troll tactic in certain instances. Most "don't want out", they just want to troll people.

Then leave take the hit for the team and stop being selfish.


Also I was in a haukke manor hard mode, we wiped on 1st boss because the tank didn't understand that if more then 2 bones dies in one spot they make the big one.

Vote to abandon.
Failed.
Refused to go on.
Vote to kick harassment.

If you vote to abandon you should be auto kicked with 30 min timer if it fails.
This would prevent abuse.

I was freshly minted... and ran instances to get at least DL gear before jumping into Titan.

I ran into a whm in AF 1 and a dropped staff in Titan HM yesterday. We tried it several times and he kept dying. He wasn't lagging and just couldn't dodge. His hps were so low that surviving post heart would have been a miracle.

I don't mind helping people learn- provided they LEARN. If they just repeat the same mistakes and refuse to learn from them- it's a waste of time. Grouping with new people that learn and succeed is fun. Incurring repairs so that people can repeat the same mistakes over and over isn't fun.

Everytime you (alone or with others) use the duty finder you AGREE to the fact that you may bump into lesser geared and/or lesser skilled players.

If you dont like this, use party finder or scramble a group of 8 on your own.

Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

Everytime you (alone or with others) use the duty finder you AGREE to the fact that you may bump into lesser geared and/or lesser skilled players.

If you dont like this, use party finder or scramble a group of 8 on your own.

Simple as that.

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Well, you agree that you have no idea what you will run into. You also agree that you are prepared to go into the fight. I think it actually asked to confirm you are ready.

If you aren't ready, don't confirm. Personally, I don't mind spending some time helping others learn- but there is no check box that you select that says "I am fine teaching this fight to other players"... it asks if you are ready and you can say Yes/No.

So- "Are you ready?"

Do you guys think forcing players to stay longer will lead to a better DF experience?

If your not willing to take the risk you might end up with someone that dosnt have a clue about the fight then use the party finder, thats what its there for.

What people need to do is look at things from the victims perspective.

Say your a dps and after 30 min an hour you finally get to enter said fight, you buff up and move out...5 minutes later someone dies and theres a wipe, BOOM someone starts a vote abandon and a few seconds later you find yourself out of the dungeon and now get to look forward another exciting 30+ minute wait.

This increase time that SE added is all thanks to the elitists of this game that god forbid ends up in a party that dosnt consist of 8 proffesionals that could kill EX primals in their sleep.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

What people need to do is look at things from the victims perspective.

This increase time that SE added is all thanks to the elitists of this game that god forbid ends up in a party that dosnt consist of 8 proffesionals that could kill EX primals in their sleep.

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Victim? Wow. Anyone could be the "victim" here. The players that know the fight but got someone who didn't. The player that doesn't know the fight and is grouped with people that aren't interested in teaching. The dps that have long wait times.

Anyone can be a victim. We are supposed to be playing heroes- not victims.

If you can't bare being with people who may not know what they are doing you need to follow this order.

It goes, FC party > Party finder > Duty finder made. SE is trying to move away from people just hoping into Duty Finder made parties because there is a random chance one person will be like I'm out of this.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Victim? Wow. Anyone could be the "victim" here. The players that know the fight but got someone who didn't. The player that doesn't know the fight and is grouped with people that aren't interested in teaching. The dps that have long wait times.

Anyone can be a victim. We are supposed to be playing heroes- not victims.

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Which is WHY i (for the third time) is saying that WHEN you choose to use the duty finder you risk running into a player like that.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Because on the NA/EU datacenters it's usually a troll tactic in certain instances. Most "don't want out", they just want to troll people.

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If most of the players in the instance don't want out the vote will not succeed.

You people want some cheese with your wine? About the increased timer

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

The number of people I've seen go AFK maliciously in this sort of context? Maybe one or two. This really isn't as prevalent as you're making it out to be. If someone is that fed up with a group and their vote abandon doesn't pass, they tend to just leave.

Now on the other hand, the number of groups I've seen throw up the vote abandon after one or two wipes? My two hands aren't enough to count them.

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You must not have done DF much before 2.1. :X

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Originally Posted by Doo

Do you guys think forcing players to stay longer will lead to a better DF experience?

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Hmm I don't think that is something done here frequently.

I form a party with 5 people and run Titan EX.
Every time when someone vote abandon, we talk in our linkshell and Vote No

Democracy Rulez, LoL

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Fact : you cannot attend a fight if you're undergeared for it

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Go beat Pharos Sirius in a PUG decked out in ilvl48 gear and let me know how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

Lol. If people are wiping within the first 5 minutes I don't wanna waste my time. There's no way that party will make it through the fight with just "practice" from that one run. I've been in way too many hopeful practice parties until the timer runs out to know that it never works.

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Point is, if you don't want to run into a bunch of new players then don't use the DF at all. Use the PF. If you're using the DF, at least have the courtesy to give it a few HONEST attempts before initiating a abandon. If it is really a waste of your time, you shouldn't have DFed to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

Point is, if you don't want to run into a bunch of new players then don't use the DF at all. Use the PF. If you're using the DF, at least have the courtesy to give it a few HONEST attempts before initiating a abandon. If it is really a waste of your time, you shouldn't have DFed to begin with.

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But sarge! Its too hard to form a party! It takes too long! What I want is an insta-win button! None of that crap!

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Originally Posted by CHunterX

Go beat Pharos Sirius in a PUG decked out in ilvl48 gear and let me know how it goes.

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Actually it goes better than a bunch of il90 rushing idiot.

I did it with my il85 War and 3 pugs 1st time in class quest gear and DL weapon (il 50 or around)
Yet guess what ? only problematic boss was the zu because of adds.
Sure we wiped a couple of times on siren the time for them to get the charm mechanic, but after that it went smooth.

Strangely enough, my last attemp with il80+ people wiped endlessly on 1st boss because they can't take care of adds, and no matter how good your healer is, more than 5 adds alive results in a wipe

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You must not have done DF much before 2.1. :X

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If it wasn't for the DF I wouldn't have gotten anywhere with the game, so no.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If it wasn't for the DF I wouldn't have gotten anywhere with the game, so no.

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It was actually a rhetorical statement. Considering I've used DF a tad bit longer than you and had also done DF Garuda/Titan HM in the month of September when people were still gearing up some 70 odd times, I can tell you this behavior was quite rampant. So was taking off all your clothes and continually aggroing the boss until players left. It's actually why I created a naked gear set so I wouldn't suffer durability loss when people decided to do this type of thing...you know...back when repair costs were a bit too much.

Your posting history on ZAM in relation to FF14 threads usually contain a lot of misinformation. Unfortunately for you, you don't have the rate down button here.

My experience is that if someone was fed up with the group, they would usually just leave. Until vote abandon got added, then they would try to do that instead in order to avoid the penalty, which essentially encouraged them to try to do it sooner.

So, again, this change is very welcomed by me. I don't know what you're doing to constantly encounter malicious AFKers, but that hardly seems as common anymore as you're making it out to be.

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Your posting history on ZAM in relation to FF14 threads usually contain a lot of misinformation.

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Your statement here contains a lot of irrelevance.