So will Glamours Require Crafting?

inb4 huge disappointment for what SE has done to a simple idea.

Just like how materia sounded cool in concept, and was really lame in execution...

Here is hoping I'll be proven wrong. >.>

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Originally Posted by Felis

And who made the clothes the mall sell? crafters.

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That analogy isn't 100% relevant considering the person that made the clothes doesn't need to help you every time you want to wear the clothes.

I know of a F2P MMO out there that does the vanity system perfectly. Doesn't require any special crafting or assistance - there are simply vanity 'outfits' that have the same slots as your regular equipment panel, and you can switch back and forth between outfits. The vanity outfits override your actual equipment (unless you turn it off). You can wear any item in them, even older equipment that you might like the look of.

I have a feeling that SE is going to make this needlessly complicated.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

They probably use crafts to make a consumable that is used in the vanity system.

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I wouldn't mind a system like this. Instead of going to the transmog npc you go the auction house to buy a stack of 20 whatevers that let you change an item into another. If you have to seek out a crafter every time you want to transmog I wouldn't even bother with it/feel like getting ripped off having someone click a few buttons for you.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

I wouldn't mind a system like this. Instead of going to the transmog npc you go the auction house to buy a stack of 20 whatevers that let you change an item into another. If you have to seek out a crafter every time you want to transmog I wouldn't even bother with it/feel like getting ripped off having someone click a few buttons for you.

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Your only getting ripped off when the Crafters overcharge for what is essentially 30 seconds out of their day, I always tell people who ask that I don't charge for the craft / meld but tips are appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by KagatoAC

Your only getting ripped off when the Crafters overcharge for what is essentially 30 seconds out of their day, I always tell people who ask that I don't charge for the craft / meld but tips are appreciated :)

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How much it might cost is beside the point, as this is something we should be able to do on the fly. If the prisms are anything less than modular wardrobe sets, then the system is not as good as it should be.

There's really no need to try and re-invent the wheel here. Squeenix needs to just go with the best system that works.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

stuff

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As long as it doesnt require a lvl50 DoH class i dnt mind, so i can do it myself. if it does require a lvl50 DoH class then ill have to stick with the display of the gear im using. until i eventually have a DoH class at 50.

Because, i absolutely hate to spend money in general, but its even worse when it goes in another player's pocket.

Imo it should be a free system "handed" to us from the start or lets say lvl15 ( just like dyes and aesthetician ).
And speaking of the aesthetician, if its not a thing we can do on the go, why not adding this feature on his options available? I mean he already serves the "how do i want to look like" purpose after all.

I just assumed the vanity slots/glamours would be like dat modding was in ffxi but like... the SE approved version. would it really be so bad to just let us equip a certain armor to a slot for it's appearance and another to the same slot for stats? that's basically how I assumed it would work.

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Originally Posted by Dohati

I just assumed the vanity slots/glamours would be like dat modding was in ffxi but like... the SE approved version. would it really be so bad to just let us equip a certain armor to a slot for it's appearance and another to the same slot for stats? that's basically how I assumed it would work.

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Doesn't sound tedious enough to be in an SE game. You'll get some long-winded silly method. Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Vanity shouldn't be dependent on others. Like the aesthetician, applying vanity should be a personal affair. I mean, who goes to the mall and asks the store employees to help them put on their clothes?

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When you go to the mall to buy clothes someone still had to make them. They don't just appear in the store, you rely on others for their provision. I don't see why this should be any different.

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Originally Posted by MithrasInvictus

When you go to the mall to buy clothes someone still had to make them. They don't just appear in the store, you rely on others for their provision. I don't see why this should be any different.

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I'm rather certain crafters are capable of making clothes in this game. Also, in a fluff feature such as this, the focus should be on accessibility and streamlined use. Don't make your players jump through hoops just to be able to look like how they want to look.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I'm rather certain crafters are capable of making clothes in this game. Also, in a fluff feature such as this, the focus should be on accessibility and streamlined use. Don't make your players jump through hoops just to be able to look like how they want to look.

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At the same time though, if it does require crafters, it gives crafters something they have wanted from this game: A actual reason to matter. People are gonna want vanity whatever, crafters make vanity whatever, crafters have a legit use to people other than other crafters.

As I stated, I would have preferred if all items that weren't dungeon drops came from a player. Get gil moving. Makes economy things happen. Good times roll.

Vanity requiring DoH HL is actually a very, very, very good idea if they insists on crafted gear being so far behind not only raid gear, but also token gear, that it is vastly irrelevant.

DoH current lack of use is one of the very problem with the game economy. We need more ways to create economic interactions between players.

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Originally Posted by Grey_Cain

Vanity shouldn't be dependent on others. Like the aesthetician, applying vanity should be a personal affair. I mean, who goes to the mall and asks the store employees to help them put on their clothes?

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Ah, first-world commodities. If you were living in the 12th or 13th century, you would be asking a blacksmith to make you weapons or a goldsmith to craft you expensive accessories.

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

Ah, first-world commodities. If you were living in the 12th or 13th century, you would be asking a blacksmith to make you weapons or a goldsmith to craft you expensive accessories.

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Well then, thank God we aren't living in the 12th and 13th centuries!

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Originally Posted by MrLeonheart

Well then, thank God we aren't living in the 12th and 13th centuries!

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Ikr? That's why it's a "fantasy" world. We are supposed to live it, not question it and build an Eorzean Wal-Mart because we're too lazy to take the medieval bus (a cart or maybe a horse if you're lucky.)

Personally, as soon as another player tries to charge me multiple hours worth of my work for very little of their work. That is griefing. Why is their time worth more than mine.

The system should be a 2nd set of armor on the character sheet. So you can drag and drop what you want, whenever you want, and be done with it. If a "stat piece" changes nothing in the "vanity piece" should change and the look doesn't need updates. Also the "look items" should stay as they are and be useable as normal gear if needed. No consuming/destroying of anything. I rather not have to reacquire anything for this system. Some things can't be found anymore or they take a lot of luck to get.

The crafting aspect may very well just be a simple consumable item, such as in Guild Wars 2. Of course GW2 destroyed the "model" item, this most likely won't happen seeing as there are items that can only be earned once. If this turns out to be the case, the consumable will sell very well and always be in demand on the market. In my case, I feel the need to change my look every now and then, so I'd most likely be one of those people buying them repeatedly.

Crafters should only be required to make the gear for the vanity system. Actually applying the visual change should be something anyone can do for themselves. It would just be tedious otherwise. If they want crafters to be useful, they need to just simply make some craftable gear that's only 5-10 item levels under the strongest items, and give a few materia slots to unique/untradeable gear. The only materia restriction on unique gear should be forbidden melds.

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

Ah, first-world commodities. If you were living in the 12th or 13th century, you would be asking a blacksmith to make you weapons or a goldsmith to craft you expensive accessories.

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Again, putting on clothes has never required the assistance of anyone unless you're a toddler. It's an entirely different situation

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Originally Posted by Zumi

They probably use crafts to make a consumable that is used in the vanity system.

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This is what I was assuming. You would be able to use any item you want (like drops from dungeons that can't be traded) but that to actually use the item as vanity you would need some crafted item like dye is now. You don't need crafting personally to dye your armor but a crafter is the one who makes the dye. (ignoring the exceptions such as beast men rep dye)

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Originally Posted by Gravehill

Again, putting on clothes has never required the assistance of anyone unless you're a toddler. It's an entirely different situation

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Yeah, but altering a winter coat so that it looks exactly like you're wearing a bikini top while still keeping you just as warm takes a teensy bit more skill.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

Yeah, but altering a winter coat so that it looks exactly like you're wearing a bikini top while still keeping you just as warm takes a teensy bit more skill.

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I think we can handwave that for the sake of game mechanics. >_>

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Originally Posted by Echoloc

Personally, as soon as another player tries to charge me multiple hours worth of my work for very little of their work. That is griefing. Why is their time worth more than mine.

The system should be a 2nd set of armor on the character sheet. So you can drag and drop what you want, whenever you want, and be done with it. If a "stat piece" changes nothing in the "vanity piece" should change and the look doesn't need updates. Also the "look items" should stay as they are and be useable as normal gear if needed. No consuming/destroying of anything. I rather not have to reacquire anything for this system. Some things can't be found anymore or they take a lot of luck to get.

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Think of it as the crafter charging you for the time and gil they spent to max out that craft. There, now the time is equitable on both side.

http://gamerescape.com/2014/02/12/ps...naoki-yoshida/

Not sure if this was read yet. But the bottom is important.

Crafters factor into this as they are the only ones who can make these crystals, and they will bring the Glamour Prisms to market. Players will go to the marketplace, buy the crystal they need and mirror the appearance of their desired gear onto their character.

Yay crafters.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

Crafters factor into this as they are the only ones who can make these crystals, and they will bring the Glamour Prisms to market. Players will go to the marketplace, buy the crystal they need and mirror the appearance of their desired gear onto their character.

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Well, this has the potential to be okay or absolutely horrible, depending on the crafting level and material requirements. Hopefully Squee isn't completely batshit and makes completing the recipe extremely accessible.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Well, this has the potential to be okay or absolutely horrible, depending on the crafting level and material requirements. Hopefully Squee isn't completely batshit and makes completing the recipe extremely accessible.

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There needs to be a balance between accessibility and difficulty; too easy and all the crafters complain about still being useless...too hard and people complain about there not being enough...

I think the best way would be to have different "grades" of glamour corresponding to materia grades. So Tier 1 would would be easiest and cheapest (prob a lv15 or so), Grade 2 is next (lv30), Grade 3 would be lv45, and Grade 4 is lv50+ (maybe 1*)

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I think the best way would be to have different "grades" of glamour corresponding to materia grades. So Tier 1 would would be easiest and cheapest (prob a lv15 or so), Grade 2 is next (lv30), Grade 3 would be lv45, and Grade 4 is lv50+ (maybe 1*)

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And what would these different grades do?

Ugh. The whole thing is just way over-complicated. Don't understand why they couldn't just create a second paperdoll for a wardrobe tab and call it done. >_<

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Well, this has the potential to be okay or absolutely horrible, depending on the crafting level and material requirements. Hopefully Squee isn't completely batshit and makes completing the recipe extremely accessible.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

There needs to be a balance between accessibility and difficulty; too easy and all the crafters complain about still being useless...too hard and people complain about there not being enough...

I think the best way would be to have different "grades" of glamour corresponding to materia grades. So Tier 1 would would be easiest and cheapest (prob a lv15 or so), Grade 2 is next (lv30), Grade 3 would be lv45, and Grade 4 is lv50+ (maybe 1*)

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Here, let's just quote the whole thing about vanity, since he actually addressed this stuff:

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Yoshida: In terms of fees for players, players should not be paying a high fee to use the Glamour System. As to how it works, there is a new item called the Glamour Prism which is a crystal that can be used to change your appearance by mirroring the look of your item. These crystals will come in different types to accommodate different gear level ranges, so if you want to assume the appearance of an item that is iLvl 30, you would need the Glamour Prism that corresponded to items of iLvl 30 to iLvl 40. While that is not the exact range, there will be several ranges of iLVLs that each Glamour Prism will work on, similar to how Grade 1 Carbonized Matter, and Grade 2 Carbonized Matter work.

Crafters factor into this as they are the only ones who can make these crystals, and they will bring the Glamour Prisms to market. Players will go to the marketplace, buy the crystal they need and mirror the appearance of their desired gear onto their character. So if you’re a crafter, you can make your own Glamour Prisms. The recipes for the crystals aren’t designed to be expensive, so I imagine it won’t be a limiting factor. Once you copy the appearance of gear that you like onto the crystal, that crystal is now bound and cannot be traded or sold, so the only commodity in the Glamour system are the Glamour Prisms that are blank made by crafters. So as a crafter, you will want to bring to market the Glamour Prisms that correspond to the coolest looking gear.

It should be easy to access for everyone and shouldn’t cost too much, so please look forward to the new feature.

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*twitch*

Freakin'... Gawd, Squee, please stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

Question: Since these Glamour Prisms will have an item level threshold, will that prevent us from creating an outfit that uses a level 50 body piece, but level 10 pants? Or would a level 50 prism hold gear of levels 1-50?

Please, for the love of all things freaking holy, don't limit us AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

Question: Since these Glamour Prisms will have an item level threshold, will that prevent us from creating an outfit that uses a level 50 body piece, but level 10 pants? Or would a level 50 prism hold gear of levels 1-50?

Please, for the love of all things freaking holy, don't limit us AGAIN.

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To me, it sounds like it's one prism per item. Copy the look of your level 50 robe with a level 50 prism, then copy the look of your level 10 pants with a level 10 prism.

I guess it could go either way from the text in this interview. That's just my impression.

I'm reading this as you only need a crystal of the level of the item you want to mirror. He addresses that in the interview.

So, I'm guessing if you take your level 90 Cleric's Robe and want it to physically look like the level 32 Battlemage robe, all you need to do is purchase the prism is of level 30-40.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

To me, it sounds like it's one prism per item. Copy the look of your level 50 robe with a level 50 prism, then copy the look of your level 10 pants with a level 10 prism.

I guess it could go either way from the text in this interview. That's just my impression.

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That's what I assumed, and so far the entire system is moving in a way I thought it would.

Questions yet to be answered:

Are the prisms consumed on use, or slotted? That's gonna be an inventory nightmare if they're physical items, one each for different slots, if we want to keep around multiple outfits.

Is the gear consumed or otherwise rendered useless upon transferring the look to the prism?

What kinds and amounts of materials will be required to craft them?

What other horribly arbitrary restrictions will be in place, e.g. item level, gear type?

And perhaps the most confounding of them all: Why make such a convoluted system when they could have gone for simple, easy, slot and go? With the way it's going, I may just say "fuck it" and just ignore the whole thing, because this is just absurd.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

And perhaps the most confounding of them all: Why make such a convoluted system when they could have gone for simple, easy, slot and go? With the way it's going, I may just say "fuck it" and just ignore the whole thing, because this is just absurd.

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If I had to hazard a guess, it's a mix between WoW's Transmog and FXIV's need for crafters to actually matter. Make vanity a process that requires moving gil or other people (yay interaction), and give crafters something that will always be in demand.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

And perhaps the most confounding of them all: Why make such a convoluted system when they could have gone for simple, easy, slot and go? With the way it's going, I may just say "fuck it" and just ignore the whole thing, because this is just absurd.

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My biggest fear was that this system was going to be like GW2.... where you combine the looks of one and the stats of another, effectively losing both items. With this system, you give crafters a way to make money. Since you're copying the looks of one item into a prism, you don't lose that item. You don't have to try to farm that item that took you 2 months....

This may not be the most convenient way to have a vanity system, like Rift's, but it sure is a great way to keep crafting slightly more relevant.

I like it because my worst fear was not realized and you get to keep the items you worked so hard to collect...

They picked the wrong game system to try and balance the life of crafters on, IMO. Vanity should be easy, streamlined, and universally accessible at the whim of the individual.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

They picked the wrong game system to try and balance the life of crafters on, IMO. Vanity should be easy, streamlined, and universally accessible at the whim of the individual.

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Says who? I want a system where it doesn't require the destruction of the item itself. (done). I want a system where I can customize my looks within reason (done. Can't have WHM look like a Tank). And I want a system where it involves the community. (done.)

I respectfully disagree with what a Vanity system "should" be, my should is different than yours.

I wonder if every DoH can craft these crystals just as it is with dyes.