Please do something about duty finder queues...

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Originally Posted by zdub303

This is what happens when you require 1 tank for every 2 dps

4 player groups... cause thats 'casual' lol.

You are just a victim for poor game design.

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This.

Making 4-man groups the norm was always going to lead to this problem for DPS, it was a stupid design decision way back in V1 that Yoshi failed to fix. Not sure if going 6-man as in FFXI was needed, 5-man as in WOW and others certainly was the minimum though.

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Originally Posted by Varhaatus

Cut a bit out to reply


Arguably it takes a certain kind of person to play a tank or a healer, as tank i enter the dungeon and begin with my work, I hardly speak unless giving instructions or typing my plan of action. I make the pull while the DPS stand there and continue the conversation waiting for me to group up the mobs, god forbid one runs off for a fraction of a second towards a DPS that got trigger happy.

I challenge anyone who mains a DPS to give a truthful answer of why they do other than its fun, it is true people just don't want the hassle or responsibility of the healing or tank job.

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I main blm I agree with you 100% it's why I got SCH/WHM to 50 and now working on PLD/WAR

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Originally Posted by Little_Aussie_Mhigo

I main blm I agree with you 100% it's why I got SCH/WHM to 50 and now working on PLD/WAR

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When you finish that dungeon with no wipes and in a 30-40min time scale, you get such a great feeling, because come on you made that happen.

I wonder how many DPS get that feeling, or even think about what happened in the last 30mins.

I get that feeling when I DPS because the strength of dps determines the speed of most runs, ADS is not going down in 6 ticks on tanks alone. I think the responsibility for tanks is always there but for dps it's back loaded, since the ways to test dps just aren't viable for dungeons that are meant to be easy. The means to judge their performance is also not straightforward, you can tell when dps is weak but you can't assign blame when there is never a solo dps. It's telling that so many DPS go frothing mad at the idea of parsers, because they are getting that one feeling they try to avoid; the feeling of responsibility.

But in difficult content, all roles should be responsible and no one gets a free pass. So it's wrong to think DPS lovers are just avoiding responsibility, good players take in a lot and take it seriously.

The problem with those wait times is the stress, the idea SE has about making more difficult content is increasing stress on tanking duties, look at garuda ex, now we have to pull an add and the 1shooting plume with a knockbacking tornado in the way. while the DPS just have to move to a specified point on the battlefield.

The most difficult content for a DPS is titan, and it only requires to memorize his rotantion and a good connection.

It's not SE fault for so many people wanting to play the easiest jobs. The game is designed fine.

I'm sure there are at least 2 party finder groups already listed every night, there are on my server. Or just make your own.
If not, play something else :3 tanking and healing are fun, give it a shot so some of us healers/tanks can get a shot at dpsing sometimes :D

tanking CT is 1 of the most boring things u can do in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Renik

The problem with those wait times is the stress, the idea SE has about making more difficult content is increasing stress on tanking duties, look at garuda ex, now we have to pull an add and the 1shooting plume with a knockbacking tornado in the way. while the DPS just have to move to a specified point on the battlefield.

The most difficult content for a DPS is titan, and it only requires to memorize his rotantion and a good connection.

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Ifrit's DPS check catches out more unskilled DPS than Titan, with the exception of BLM. You might know this if you actually play their jobs. Or have done the EM primals. Or a single turn of coil.

I hate to be that guy but your post was just the most perfect example of ignorance about other jobs. Skill checks for DPS has no obvious external indicator other that you wipe if they aren't good enough, of course it's just going to look like "they just have to go to that point".

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Originally Posted by Armond

Aside from the technical aspect then you have to go back and re-balance every single bit of group content to account for 5/10/30 man units instead of 4/8/24.

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Not just content... You'd have to completely rebalance tank and healer classes/roles as well...

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Depends.

Dungeons? No, tanking is harder than dps.

Some boss fights like Titan and Ifrit HM? Yes, tanking is easier.

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^this (though maybe not "harder" per se, but more responsibility). In dungeons, the tank will (read: should) be the one leading the party (at least, physically). Since the tank is usually the one marking, it's also up to the tank to know the mobs and their kill priority. Boss mechanics should be known by all the party, but outside something like poison/eat fruit every few stacks, for DPS it's just a matter of pew pew. On the other hand, tanks need to be aware of adds and boss placement (last boss on AK, for example).

For bosses, like Titan HM, it's a faceroll. Only things that tanks really need to pay attention to there are popping a CD/flashing for MB and getting out of the way of the occasional bomb.

This was happening prepatch as well. Adding more servers to the group would do nothing to change the ratio of tanks to healers to dps. The problem would persist. There is absolutely NOTHING square can do about the players wanting to play DPS instead of Tanks. They've tried to encourage us, but many people prefer easy DPS classes. I don't know what you think square can do about that.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

It's not SE fault for so many people wanting to play the easiest jobs. The game is designed fine.

I'm sure there are at least 2 party finder groups already listed every night, there are on my server. Or just make your own.
If not, play something else :3 tanking and healing are fun, give it a shot so some of us healers/tanks can get a shot at dpsing sometimes :D

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Now this is what i call ignorance !

DPS is easiest class are you joking with me!


Do you know as Monk what you have to do ...you need to keep yourself all the time at the flank of the monsters, you need to build your dps and watch it not to go dowen, reserve some of your skills for certain part of the battles, constant dodging of all kinds, all the time you are at the hottest spot to be killed because you are melle, you need to watch the entire filed and what is happening in order immediately to assist where is needed and save players, you also need to watch not to be hit by something...there are two reasons for that....1. most of time is one shot kill 2nd not to waste Healers mana so that they can use it when i most needed, also do you know how hard is to hit moving targets and keep your dps up, your TP goes soooo fast empty !

I will give you example !


In CT by fighting the monsters, 3 tanks fell dowen....all the healers were in one platform and 2 Eyes atacked them....the tanks and other other dps simply ignore them and i jumped to help even i had little hp left, it was good that i kept my dash skill unused otherwise i would be killed by the poison,and so had to tank and dodge the eyes! The healers were glad that i jumped it was great experience !



Here is an idea about the waiting time to be fixed !


How about make dns bit more hard and like so you put in the party instead 2 DPS, 4DPS !

This will solve waiting problem a lot !

I have not had this happen ever on coeurl. Is it possibly a population problem with this data center? I am a dps and do CT and usually only wait at most 10 minutes.

Every role has its share of responsibility in whether or not an attempt succeeds or fails, and no one is safe from the possibility of being blamed for a failed attempt.

Obviously, the biggest factor in high queue times for DPS roles is due to a higher ratio of people playing those jobs than healers and tanks, but also that ALL content matches at a ratio of 2:1 for DPS roles to healers and tanks. I think the best solution is for SE to start making more content for full parties which requires only one tank and one healer with six damage dealers in the duty finder. Pre-made parties could still take on the content with two tanks and/or two healers for a safer experience, so using the duty finder as a solo player might be riskier than it is already (if you get a bad tank or healer, since their personal responsibility as the only one in the party will be higher) but individual queue times would become much shorter.


Edit: in regards to the OP's screenshot... You might have experienced a bug. There's been once or twice in the past when my queue seems to be taking a relatively long amount of time, and I assumed that maybe I got bugged so I re-queued and it took a normal amount of time to find me a party.

Also, what's the deal with Titan (Hard) wasting a match-making spot on a second tank instead of a fifth DPS spot, and letting that second tank get the main tanking role for another party?

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Originally Posted by Akk

Every role has its share of responsibility in whether or not an attempt succeeds or fails, and no one is safe from the possibility of being blamed for a failed attempt.

Obviously, the biggest factor in high queue times for DPS roles is due to a higher ratio of people playing those jobs than healers and tanks, but also that ALL content matches at a ratio of 2:1 for DPS roles to healers and tanks. I think the best solution is for SE to start making more content for full parties which requires only one tank and one healer with six damage dealers in the duty finder. Pre-made parties could still take on the content with two tanks and/or two healers for a safer experience, so using the duty finder as a solo player might be riskier than it is already (if you get a bad tank or healer, since their personal responsibility as the only one in the party will be higher) but individual queue times would become much shorter.

Edit: in regards to the OP's screenshot... You might have experienced a bug. There's been once or twice in the past when my queue seems to be taking a relatively long amount of time, and I assumed that maybe I got bugged so I re-queued and it took a normal amount of time to find me a party.

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Out of everything said here, I agree with this the most. Taking the game as a whole, for high-level encounters-- everyone is responsible for their own job. 'Cause let's face it, Titan hard mode requires a competent party, not just a portion of it. Everyone needs to dodge, attack, rotate buffs, and implement the correct heals at the right time. Unless it's only one out of the eight that doesn't know what's going on, carrying any more players than that to victory is just ridiculous/impossible.

As for content with only one tank and a slew of other classes, this appears to be the most sensible solution. Lastly, the OP's screenshot does indeed seem bugged. Average wait time is 5m, but the clock just keeps on going.

I can't speak for other data center clusters, but on Primal and Aether, if I queue (for CT) with only one other friend also on a dps class, it takes me maybe five minutes. DF queue seems to take people in groups before people alone. Seeing as how most people queue with at least one other friend, that would make it pretty obvious why it's 90 minutes solo and 5 minutes for two people (even if both are dps). So I guess just try to find a friend to run CT with or shout for someone or join PF groups. :( Not much SE can really do to fix this, and it's the same problem pretty much every game has when there's a dungeon/raid finder.

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

How about make dns bit more hard and like so you put in the party instead 2 DPS, 4DPS !

This will solve waiting problem a lot !

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You say this like it's easy to re-balance the ENTIRE game.

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Originally Posted by Akk

Also, what's the deal with Titan (Hard) wasting a match-making spot on a second tank instead of a fifth DPS spot, and letting that second tank get the main tanking role for another party?

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I would seriously like them to fix this. Perhaps if enough people asked for it, they may put it in 2.3 along with making 24-man premades possible?

Ifrit HM also don't need a second tank.

Also I've seen quite a lot of people complaining about lack of tanks on the one hand and then turn around to laugh at newbie tanks, instead of encouraging and giving advice. Some of them are so bad I wouldn't want to tank for them. Game design is only part of the problem, one intolerant player is enough to shadow out 10 helpful players and give newbie tanks second thoughts. Especially when that one player is abusing the tank, nobody stands up for the tank---it then feels as if everyone agrees with the abuse.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Also I've seen quite a lot of people complaining about lack of tanks on the one hand and then turn around to laugh at newbie tanks, instead of encouraging and giving advice. Some of them are so bad I wouldn't want to tank for them. Game design is only part of the problem, one intolerant player is enough to shadow out 10 helpful players and give newbie tanks second thoughts. Especially when that one player is abusing the tank, nobody stands up for the tank---it then feels as if everyone agrees with the abuse.

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I always try to give advice, but then people get mad and tell me not to tell them how to play their job etc. It doesn't matter what job it is, and I'm really always polite about it. :/ Doesn't excuse how rude some people are toward poor tanks/healers/dps, but I think a lot of people outright refuse to heed advice and take it as some big insult.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Ifrit's DPS check catches out more unskilled DPS than Titan, with the exception of BLM. You might know this if you actually play their jobs. Or have done the EM primals. Or a single turn of coil.

I hate to be that guy but your post was just the most perfect example of ignorance about other jobs. Skill checks for DPS has no obvious external indicator other that you wipe if they aren't good enough, of course it's just going to look like "they just have to go to that point".

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and so says the BLM who has... 0 tank jobs at 50, as you say DPS check is important but as DPSs has those checks we tanks have damage mitigation checks, even if a tank is well geared he/she must know how to use the dmage mitigation skills, se we have a check just like the DPSs and on the other have we have to take care of hate control, positioning and tanking mechanics that are different on every fight, but you dont have to believe me just look at the numbers, there are a lot of new players that start leveling GLA (because its the sword class, you know, it's cool<.<) but most of them end up playing a DPS class, at the same time lots of high lvl tanks just give up because of this stress.

HM and EX primas are not fun for tanks, they are a pain, content to clear thats all, and not because they are hard, just because they are stressing, a like a lol-openworld-monster that cant kill you but can slow you.

Tanking is easy which is why your average dps will suck at it.

In terms of simplicity, and having all 3 types Healer/Tank/DD, i can tell you that healing is the hardest class to play, followed by DD and tank being the easiest to play, which i think is why most people think tank is boring, because its too easy

it's funny that you mention tera because lancers were very uncommon in tera

people don't want to tank. I don't want to tank. that's just how it is. healing is fine, but tanking? no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Sciwolf

Tanking is easy which is why your average dps will suck at it.

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This is what tanks believe.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You say this like it's easy to re-balance the ENTIRE game.

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This is not my job to do, is SE and the team is working on the game !

My idea is to double the DPS players in the party, but if doing so i supose the dn will be easy so i supose they need to make the dns then harder !

Waiting 40min-90min and more is no understandable at all no matter the reason is! I like alot of people, we dont have 12h a day to play the game and to wait more then half of my playtime for getting in a dn is absurd !

I give them my money to have a nice experiance in the game not the oposite ! They should start doing their job and not to come to me with stupid excuses like zoom out your camera, or because we cant keep with RMT and the demand for housing let make the prices sky high !


They know for a lot of problems from long ago so its about time to start doing their job, if they cant should be replaced like it will happen in eany company !

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

This is not my job to do, is SE and the team is working on the game !

My idea is to double the DPS players in the party, but if doing so i supose the dn will be easy so i supose they need to make the dns then harder !

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Right. I can suggest all kinds of crazy things, but it's everyone else's job to do it! Listen. It's easy to say that will fix it, but to do it is another thing entirely. If you think for even a second that your suggest has even the slightest chance of happening then you are sorely mistaken. I don't mind that you are trying to think of ways around the problem, but suggesting a fundamental change and rebalance of the game is never going to happen at this stage. We need to try and think of options within the realm of possibility.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Right. I can suggest all kinds of crazy things, but it's everyone else's job to do it! Listen. It's easy to say that will fix it, but to do it is another thing entirely. If you think for even a second that your suggest has even the slightest chance of happening then you are sorely mistaken. I don't mind that you are trying to think of ways around the problem, but suggesting a fundamental change and rebalance of the game is never going to happen at this stage. We need to try and think of options within the realm of possibility.

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As i saied its just my idea !

Here is the thing we dont even have to suggest eanything its not our job ! You are player not SE employ so dont go around bashing peoples suggestions and ideas!

They have a team, they need to figure it out not we, if is opposite we need to get paied not give them money !

And if is a crazy idea or not only the SE working team can say, i dont see you working for them !

Also if an idea is hard to do but it will solve the problem it need to be done, if they cant do it then they should go find another work !

And never say that if a suggestion for a fundamental change and rebalance of the game that never going to happen at this stage! Neither me or you can decide that only they can do it, meany people saied that FF14 at version 1.0 is dead and the game will never see eanymore the light !


I dont know about you but i watch cearfully how i spend my money and i dont trow them away! When i have to pay for MMO i expect not to have problems with the internet conection, not to be lied in the face by SE, to be locked from content because they have not implaneted enough servers and im definitely not paing them to wait in the game more then 1h for single dn to go in this is absured !


Ive started my owen company with my friends, in it we are now total 22 great friendly players! And now thx to the fiasco with patch 2.1, the laggs, the abuse of vote system and the looooooong waiting time for dn, the crashed markets, so only me and 3 more players are active.....the rest quit the game because of this reasons !


The only thing we can do is to give them suggestion and advices, if they read them think about them and do them is all up to them not us !

You're right. All you can do is give them suggestions. However, when you're suggestions require a significant reworking of the game then it's a pretty safe bet it will never happen. If you want to keep putting pie in the sky suggestions up then be my guest, but wouldn't you rather make suggestions that have a chance of success? What do you honestly think the odds are that they will re-balance every Guildhest, every low level dungeon, every high level dungeon, CT, and the Coil just to add more players to each party? They delayed CT by 3 months simply to re-balance it for a lower level of play. How much time do you think it would take to re-balance the entire game? They are obviously looking forward with new content, and not looking backwards seeking to reinvent the wheel. That time has come and gone with the launch of 2.0.

My personal suggestion here would be to add more healing and tanking classes. There is always a somewhat normal distribution of players among the player base. Right now 2/4ths of the jobs are DD, 1/4th tank, and 1/4th healers. Based on the statistics I've seen the distribution of players to those jobs match very closely to the same ratios. That being that roughly 1/4th of the players are tanks, 1/4th are healers, and 2/4ths are DDs. Based on that correlation I would suggest adding another Tank and Healer role as soon as possible to help balance out against the damage dealers. It's a simple fix, the statistics roughly back it, and it's something they will eventually do anyway.

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

Waiting 40min-90min and more is no understandable at all no matter the reason is!

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Let's throw out a plausible number during a weekend of player numbers on DF queue. Let's say you queue for CT as DPS. 100 tanks, 100 healers, and 1000 DPS are in queue. That's around 16 groups (96 tanks, 96 healers, 192 DPS). Look at the remaining numbers... 4 tanks, 4 heals, and 808 DPS... over 800! Even if you don't believe that 1000 DPS in queue during a high-time is plausible, with a variance of 808 players, I think it's safe to assume that it doesn't matter what number you throw out as "plausible" would be... there's still going to be a lot of people waiting for that 40-90min. Heck, even with your suggestion of doubling the DPS count for groups (384 DPS in that previous example), that still leaves a grand majority of players waiting.

Of course, balancing around that would also cause problems for groups trying to do things as a premade. While DPS is not an issue in solo queue, nor in just looking around at what class players currently are, finding people to actively join your group is an entirely different story. You'd be surprised as to how long it takes to fill DPS spots, as I can tell you for sure that it's not instant.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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They rebalance the game after every patch if you have not noticed it !

Provious dn and primals are made alot more easier ! So you want to tell me they can make the content easier but not harder !!!

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

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I do understand the reasons why we have to wait so long ! And what you say is correct!

Also by doubling the DPS can allow a lot more people to find a party as the current sitoation we are now! That why i sugested it.

Then again i dont have eany understanding or i will give the SE team a slack for this problem!

Like you all i pay them 12 Euros! So for what i give them that money ? To wait 1h30min to go in single dn, and probably be kicked by some idiot for no reason ? This is not excusable at all !

Also befor patch 2.1 was bit better, was still the same story with the waiting but i could do other things when i was waiting now i cant do them.....because of the Withdraw madnes !

It's not SEs fault that way more people play DPS then Tanks or Healers.

And to the people who keep saying well they need more tank and healer jobs, no this won't do anything if someone doesn't want to tank or heal they will pick dps regardless of how many different tank or healer jobs there are. Personally I find DPS to be not fun to play and I don't get the appeal of why so many people play them.

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

They rebalance the game after every patch if you have not noticed it !

Provious dn and primals are made alot more easier ! So you want to tell me they can make the content easier but not harder !!!

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Those are minor tweaks on the same 4/8 man formula. Not the same as a complete rebalance due to the extra healing that more players would require and the additional damage the team would output. Making minor tweaks based on mountains of data from actual players is just not in the same league. So once again I ask. If CT took 3 months to rebalance simply for lower level, how long do you think the whole game would require when you're adding more people to each team?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Those are minor tweaks on the same 4/8 man formula. Not the same as a complete rebalance due to the extra healing that more players would require and the additional damage the team would output. Making minor tweaks based on mountains of data from actual players is just not in the same league. So once again I ask. If CT took 3 months to rebalance simply for lower level, how long do you think the whole game would require when you're adding more people to each team?

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If its true what you say, because im not much into the technical stuff :)

Then probably they will need more time. Then again this problem is know from the betas so they had plenty of time and they still have time to make changes. Also its not needed to be done all at once, they can rebalance one dn at a time and put it in the game just like they do with Extreem mode, the new type of dn CT! CT is new formula as you saied with 24 people not 4 or 8, they will need to convert the 4 and 8 party dns! The CT i would log in a lot easier if it was not this Withdraw madnes because of few selfish players!

If they are smart though they will increase party size with the first expansion. Its new content so I can be developed with 5-6 player parties in mind. 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 3 Dps, 1 Support would be the party comp in my dream MMO.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It's not SEs fault that way more people play DPS then Tanks or Healers.

And to the people who keep saying well they need more tank and healer jobs, no this won't do anything if someone doesn't want to tank or heal they will pick dps regardless of how many different tank or healer jobs there are. Personally I find DPS to be not fun to play and I don't get the appeal of why so many people play them.

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Its so true what you say, different people got different tastes!

Then again is SE job to solve the problem!

How exactly i dont know, maybe they need to find their owen solution or take some ideas from players witch posted in the forum and give them a present :)

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

Like you all i pay them 12 Euros! So for what i give them that money ? To wait 1h30min to go in single dn, and probably be kicked by some idiot for no reason ? This is not excusable at all !

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You're paying 12 Euros to be able to access this combined theme park and sandbox.
Once you're in there, it's up to you and your co-players to actually do stuff in there.
You have plenty of options for what to do while you are queuing for a specific attraction.
If you want access to some attractions faster, you can befriend other people so you can do things together instead of being randomly matched with others.

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Originally Posted by Varhaatus

When no one wants to be the backbones of a party and instead faceroll a DPS class for easy, responsibility free gaming this is what happens.

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What a piss poor logic... I enjoy damaging instead of keeping agro and healing, that automatically makes me easy mode player with no skill/responsibility? I guess I should stop silencing mobs then eh? or maybe I should stop using quelling strikes and just steal agro whenever i pop cd's...

Telling people to not play DPS because of queue times is silly.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You're paying 12 Euros to be able to access this combined theme park and sandbox.
Once you're in there, it's up to you and your co-players to actually do stuff in there.
You have plenty of options for what to do while you are queuing for a specific attraction.
If you want access to some attractions faster, you can befriend other people so you can do things together instead of being randomly matched with others.

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As i saied above i cant do eanything when i queuing for a specific content! Reason is simple i have to push like 50 times the start button because of selfish players keeping withdraw!

Dont know about you but i can play up to 3 hours tops a day if i can play that day, only at weekends i can play more! So basicly almsot my entire time goes of waiting until i am able to go inside, and ocne you are inside you have high possabillity to be kicked or some idiots now to disband the party because they are too angry!
And if you have not noticed most of the content is dn based so you cant progress if you dont do them!
Also one more thing there is a lack of content in the Open World we have, if not alsmot none, only dn one !

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Originally Posted by MikoteAstra

As i saied above i cant do eanything when i queuing for a specific content! Reason is simple i have to push like 50 times the start button because of selfish players keeping withdraw!

Dont know about you but i can play up to 3 hours tops a day if i can play that day, only at weekends i can play more! So basicly almsot my entire time goes of waiting until i am able to go inside, and ocne you are inside you have high possabillity to be kicked or some idiots now to disband the party because they are too angry!
And if you have not noticed most of the content is dn based so you cant progress if you dont do them!
Also one more thing there is a lack of content in the Open World we have, if not alsmot none, only dn one !

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I have 2-3 hours a day on weekdays that I can play. At most.
For the DF start button I suggest waiting 10 seconds before you click or switch back to the job you queued as. In progress fishers never wait that long before they cancel.