And what situation with tanks on your server?

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

I think, that the main problems with tanks appeared on exPrimals, because the previous content was too easy for tanks. Only Coil is hard. But all another content ... What tanks need to do? Just stand, hold agro and thats all. But exPrimals showed, that tanks must not only stay like stupid puppets without a piece of brain, but tanks now need to move and make some another tricks. And we see tanks with wide opened eyes and saying "I need to do more, than just stay? Ohhh... it is so haaard" The best example is exTitan- tanks cant dodge Landslides and cant hold mobs. Very nice example of common tank's low skill level (not all of the tanks, but most of them)

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The EX Primal fights aren't difficult as a tank, they're actually quite a bit of fun. I've just lost interest in tanking things in the PF because of the shit I've seen tanks get. I forget to use Defiance once after wiping repeatedly because DDs can't dodge and get my balls busted while the same DD dies because "he's laughing at the bads". I'd rather just be mindless and DD in pugs and tank for my friends/static. Your attitude probably doesn't help with newer tanks learning content either.

I don't know about other tanks, but I stick to LSs that are referal/screen only.

Far too many people out there that expect to be carried as a lazy player or get butthurt pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by Marleytiva

The EX Primal fights aren't difficult as a tank, they're actually quite a bit of fun. I've just lost interest in tanking things in the PF because of the shit I've seen tanks get. I forget to use Defiance once after wiping repeatedly because DDs can't dodge and get my balls busted while the same DD dies because "he's laughing at the bads". I'd rather just be mindless and DD in pugs and tank for my friends/static. Your attitude probably doesn't help with newer tanks learning content either.

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Maybe Im too strict, Im sorry. Of course there are a lot of bad DDs ans healers. I have seen many DDs with exPrimals weapon and they did very little damage in 85+ilvl gear. This is really sad

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Maybe Im too strict, Im sorry. Of course there are a lot of bad DDs ans healers. I have seen many DDs with exPrimals weapon and they did very little damage in 85+ilvl gear. This is really sad

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Nah, I can dig the frustration sometimes. Just realize that much of the time we deal with people making really bad decisions and when we try and deal with them, we sometimes aren't able. The amount of times I've seen a WHM DS Medica II right before Titan pops his two adds is surprising. DDs that will try and kite adds instead of running to you as well as watching helplessly as people die to bombs/dashes or blowing up the spiny too early etc. People make mistakes, I know I do and it's not a big deal. When I constantly see players blaming others while being unable to critique their own play it is pretty disheartening and makes you question why you bother.

Not tanking EX primals has nothing to do with being "lazy". Not putting up with people who criticize tanks as "lazy" or say that most tanks are unskilled has more to do with the tank shortage. Most tanks don't line up to play with strangers insulting them.

In addition to encountering bad attitudes from people who don't know what they're talking about, tanks are usually raged at first, expected to know everything, have all the best gear, and make no mistakes. Bahaha. That's a recipe for fun.

The one nice thing about being in demand, though, is that when someone starts raging or bullying people, I can tell them to apologize or leave. Having to scold people like children is pretty sad, but at least tanks don't have to put up with bad people for long. :)

I don't know. I am a main tank on Sargatanas. I don't join Party Finder unless I am super bored and don't care about wiping. It's incredibly frustrating playing along side a bad tank especially one you don't know. I have cleared all content and continue to do so every week. I also sell extreme primal runs. I guess I can agree that the "good" tanks are already taken. Unless I am helping a friend out or doing something that requires me to be a tank, I don't play my tank. It's not because of the demeaning attitude towards tanks but more because I am burnt out at this point. I don't mind helping others and again when I am bored I join random PF groups just because. I don't really know what I am getting at with this post other than, we are out there. We are just usually disguised as something else :P

A lot of people are put off tanking because of the crap they get for doing something wrong. Playing as SCH, SMN or BRD I notice when other players mess up, which is pretty common but as soon as a tank does it the abuse they get is ridiculous.

Was helping a friend with Garuda Ex as MT with him being OT like 3 days after 2.1 and he was already required to know the ins and outs of the fight. Had a BLM in the group who hadn't done it but they said "Just follow us and don't kill the spiny till we say". OT got ripped to shit for a placement issue.

You need thick skin to be a tank but when people say "There aren't enough tanks" it's because the community bash them so much.

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

Right on. I play as PLD (L45 currently) and it is the most thankless and most stressful role in the game if you're a conscientious person and do NOT want to be the "bad tank". No role takes as much heat, blame, and hate as the tank if they are perceived as not being a Perfect Paragon of the Archetype.

Each time a new "must complete to advance" Duty presents itself (Howling Eye is next for me) I sweat steel going over the "game film" on YT to prepare, and cringing when I finally queue up in DF, praying "Please don't let me F it up..."

Being the Tank... it's just not Fun. Not until the end of a run, when you've done your job, and then you experience an emotional Crowning Moment of Awesome high...

...but it doesn't last, and then you're back to constant utterance of the Prayer to Avoid Positive Vertical-Vector Fornication...

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All of this is why I love tanking

We have a tank shortage. I thought to level a new character on my server as a tank in order to help out. I went through a couple low level dungeons and guildhests and kept hearing "Please watch enmity" from my FC mates. My only thought was "Why isn't this WORKING?" as I targeted and mashed buttons for enmity-inducing skills. As BLM, I know that using a spell will do something. If I'm lucky, it will hit for a lot. If I'm not so lucky, it will still hit. But as a tank? It probably looked like I was doing nothing.

I leveled to about 23 MRD and gave up on that alt.

My only thought is that running a dungeon as a just-unlocked-this tank with a party composed of level synced healer and dps could have made keeping aggro more difficult. Not sure. I last played a tank before 2.1 if that makes a difference.

To add: I am not a bad dps, I'm an average dps. But, since I'm dps, that's okay. Tanks though... it's like they're expected to be perfect AND psychic.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Want to know what the best part about those groups is? They almost always suck.

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And more often than not the player trying to make the group is usually waaaay under their own requirements for the party. Shouldnt be able to set ilvl requirements higher than the PF makers own ilvl.

this is 100% true lol i am a experienced Paladin and people do post that a lot

Hi. Sargatanas tank, here. I'm told I'm pretty good at it, for what that's worth. Like many have said, I don't typically join PF unless it's with other people I know because of the general attitudes of the non-tanks. Yeah, I make mistakes, but I'm pretty much on it most of the time. I really don't like getting blamed for things beyond my control, though. With SE's new love for the "tank swap" mechanic, everyone in the group has to be mindful about what is going on given that we have a very limited number of tools to grab the attention of mobs off the rest of the group. If I have to save my 40s CD Provoke for that swap, I can't use it on the add that DPS decided to wail on before I could get it where it needed to go (chasing Chirada around is NOT fun). Heal timing is also situational, but it matters. We all have to do our part to succeed.

Sarg tank reporting in. I'm full i90 War, and i85 Pld. If you want to know the reason tanks don't join.. it is because we already have the gear. I am gearing up my alts through CT/EX drops, and unless a party is somehow "greed only" there is literally no reason for me to join. I get my weekly Primal kills on tank, then move on to my brd/blm.

Something to consider for people trying to make groups: You are blocking out tanks by making your gear requirement too high. By the time someone is actually i80+ they most likely don't need whatever group you are making. There is no incentive for them to join, and you keep anyone who might have incentive (alts) from joining by restricting gear too heavily.

Honestly if SE made a "Master Loot" function for premade parties, I think you'd see a lot more tanks willing to farm on their main tank. I know I would, because I could ensure that every jack nob joining a "Greed only" party, won't hit the "Need" button and run when agreed upon lists are in place. Just my 2 cents.

Stop requiring lockout gear and ppl with alt tanks will be able to help.

On Hyperion, it seems like every time I do Duty Roulette, my bonus for adventurer in need is always tank. Since all my jobs are fully leveled, this isn't really too bad for me, but my two best equipped jobs are Drg and Brd, and I don't like being forced to play tank all the time, just for farming tomes.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

On Hyperion, it seems like every time I do Duty Roulette, my bonus for adventurer in need is always tank. Since all my jobs are fully leveled, this isn't really too bad for me, but my two best equipped jobs are Drg and Brd, and I don't like being forced to play tank all the time, just for farming tomes.

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I levelled a healer for queueing up and it ended up my main because it was impossible to get any loot for my bard while doing all the content on scholar... I considered levelling paladin or something but the problem would still be that I can't need bard stuff and I'd have to wait until everybody has everything in order to get some stuff I want from greeding it :-(

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Originally Posted by Pavise

Don't like the tank situation on your server? Level one yourself and be apart of your own solution if you're such an amazing player.

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http://i.imgur.com/VPz4swq.png

Seriously though, that's what I did. I leveled a tank first thinking they would be scarce like in other games. I would finally be a valued and much-needed team member instead of a benchwarmer. Turns out I was wrong. My FC has an excess of tanks, PF teams are always full on tanks and most of the people on my friends list are tanks. Tanks tanks tanks!

From the look of it, healers are the scarcity. I may have to break down and roll a healer if I want to raid. I really don't want to.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

We have a tank shortage.

I leveled to about 23 MRD and gave up on that alt.

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Don't give up on it, practice makes perfect. You have to go at it seriously, try reading up on it in the tank forums. I'll say that as a War Overpower is your bread and butter for grabbing hate initially on a pack of mobs. Getting flash from gladiator will double your (aoe hate generation) effectiveness as its essentially a 'free' aoe hate grabber, and would be better for initial pulls since its not a cone attack like overpower and therefore not so reliant on positioning.
Also tabbing through a pack while doing your combo helps if you've got dps just aoeing or not focusing target etc. War is hella fun at 50, and if you're good you'll be getting all the commendations :D

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

And more often than not the player trying to make the group is usually waaaay under their own requirements for the party. Shouldnt be able to set ilvl requirements higher than the PF makers own ilvl.

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Especially when those type of groups can't kill Suparna fast enough during P3.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Don't give up on it, practice makes perfect.

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Thank you for these suggestions! :D I leveled GLD also on the alt to get Flash... then found out it has a limited range! XD

Even now, when helping new people through a dungeon, I gently remind everyone to run TO the tank if they have aggro, not away! XDD But yes, I will practice more! Wish me luck! :3

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Thank you for these suggestions! :D I leveled GLD also on the alt to get Flash... then found out it has a limited range! XD

Even now, when helping new people through a dungeon, I gently remind everyone to run TO the tank if they have aggro, not away! XDD But yes, I will practice more! Wish me luck! :3

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My Main's a PLD, and they struggle more than a WAR early on. Your tanking stance is just a few levels away at 30, while PLD doesn't get his until 40.

Once you get your Defiance stance and get a little more practice with enmity building and servicing, even synced-down 50s won't be a threat going full bore. And don't forget to take your PLD up far enough to get Provoke. Provoke's not absolutely necessary until you hit cap, but once you have it you'll find it is incredibly useful when one gets away, when you need to pull further than tomahawk can reach (but otherwise it is *not* for pulls), when needing to reestablish aggro after a raise, or for tank swapping, which you won't be doing until CT, Coil, or the EX Primals (unless you are OT and the MT goes down and you're not #2 on the enmity table).

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Originally Posted by Traek

Sarg tank reporting in. I'm full i90 War, and i85 Pld. If you want to know the reason tanks don't join.. it is because we already have the gear. I am gearing up my alts through CT/EX drops, and unless a party is somehow "greed only" there is literally no reason for me to join. I get my weekly Primal kills on tank, then move on to my brd/blm.

Something to consider for people trying to make groups: You are blocking out tanks by making your gear requirement too high. By the time someone is actually i80+ they most likely don't need whatever group you are making. There is no incentive for them to join, and you keep anyone who might have incentive (alts) from joining by restricting gear too heavily.

Honestly if SE made a "Master Loot" function for premade parties, I think you'd see a lot more tanks willing to farm on their main tank. I know I would, because I could ensure that every jack nob joining a "Greed only" party, won't hit the "Need" button and run when agreed upon lists are in place. Just my 2 cents.

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That's another reason I don't join PF as a tank. I'm an i90 Warrior and an i87 Paladin, if there was a loot function in place like you described, I'd probably be more willing to join as a tank.

I still occasionally help people when they need tank roles, mostly on relic quests though. But... as tank never was my main, I only use it to when I need to farm things quicker, well... with the benefit of instant entry using DF. lol

And with introduction of recommendation system, I can see that many people didn't really appreciate tank roles. Seen several occasion where I got zero recommendation, even when doing CM or Prae. Hope healers has their recommendation instead though, but this does makes playing tank not so rewarding. Not that I really care with the achievement rewards which is just basically useless crown, minion, barding, and new ride. lol

A lot of the time im unable to play because of the 30 min timer . Like I just had group and the bard is standing around AFK , I quit after first pull .

This happens a lot more than people realise.

I realise DF is random so there are a lot of those bad puggers but I seem to be getting bad RNG on groups lately.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Same situation on Siren, and 2.1 exacerbated it. I was curious why, so I asked around to various players I knew (and some I met randomly thru PF). Apparently the situation is that a lot of tanks are switching to DPS because, "DPS has it easy with the post 2.1 fights, tanks actually have to worry about mechanics now."

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As a tank on Siren that is hit up constantly whenever online to run things, I have to agree that this is a likely reason why some tanks have prioritized other classes now. Can't be the only one, but I'm sure it's a factor. It depresses me to think that, however, because I've been personally ecstatic with 2.1's fights requiring active tanking as opposed to passive tanking. I've said more than once, "this is awesome, I actually get to DO stuff now!" I wish everyone could have the same kind of enthusiasm for mechanics that force us to have to maneuver and strategize just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

As a tank on Siren that is hit up constantly whenever online to run things, I have to agree that this is a likely reason why some tanks have prioritized other classes now. Can't be the only one, but I'm sure it's a factor. It depresses me to think that, however, because I've been personally ecstatic with 2.1's fights requiring active tanking as opposed to passive tanking. I've said more than once, "this is awesome, I actually get to DO stuff now!" I wish everyone could have the same kind of enthusiasm for mechanics that force us to have to maneuver and strategize just like everyone else.

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I agree it's nice to have to do something instead of standing there and hoping 3/7/23 people don't mess up.

On Balmung, the tank situation honestly isn't too bad.

The problem is, why would anyone want to play a tank, who's expected to both lead the party and magically know every fight, when you could just faceroll everything as DD? It's as much a flaw in game design as it a flaw in people.

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Originally Posted by Traek

Honestly if SE made a "Master Loot" function for premade parties, I think you'd see a lot more tanks willing to farm on their main tank. I know I would, because I could ensure that every jack nob joining a "Greed only" party, won't hit the "Need" button and run when agreed upon lists are in place. Just my 2 cents.

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I suggested something like this in beta, where when you joined the instance you could select which class you wanted to roll for. This way, if you were there on your Tank or Healer (i am iLvl87 WHM, so I am in a similar situation) because that is what the group needed, you could still go ahead and work on gearing your alts. Sadly, this will never be.

I've seen a lot of Hm Ultima groups looking for a healer, but since I don't need anything from Ultima, I only help out my FC when they ask. If I could heal Ultima but still roll on stuff for my alts, I'd do that.

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Originally Posted by am0n

I suggested something like this in beta, where when you joined the instance you could select which class you wanted to roll for. This way, if you were there on your Tank or Healer (i am iLvl87 WHM, so I am in a similar situation) because that is what the group needed, you could still go ahead and work on gearing your alts. Sadly, this will never be.

I've seen a lot of Hm Ultima groups looking for a healer, but since I don't need anything from Ultima, I only help out my FC when they ask. If I could heal Ultima but still roll on stuff for my alts, I'd do that.

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And rightly so.

Conversely: If I'm tanking the dungeon, why should a dps be able to roll on my loot?

I guess you could work around it by giving priority to those playing the actual class, but that would reduce incentive.

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

And rightly so.

Conversely: If I'm tanking the dungeon, why should a dps be able to roll on my loot?

I guess you could work around it by giving priority to those playing the actual class, but that would reduce incentive.

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If DPS is what your group needed and they were willing to give up their Need roles for DPS stuff, why not? If you are unhappy with that, you don't let them join and find a different DPS.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

On Hyperion, it seems like every time I do Duty Roulette, my bonus for adventurer in need is always tank. Since all my jobs are fully leveled, this isn't really too bad for me, but my two best equipped jobs are Drg and Brd, and I don't like being forced to play tank all the time, just for farming tomes.

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Pretty sure the Adventurer in Need bonus is just gil and seals. You get the tomes for daily completion regardless of class. I'm not at home to check, but I'm 99% certain.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Want to know what the best part about those groups is? They almost always suck.

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..and led by idiot kids that do nothing but spew foul language, thinking it's cool while congratulating themselves on being "uber" in a game where anyone can achieve anything... and likely dying to an AE in the process, because they are too busy insulting people in FC chat or talking about their school friends...

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

On Balmung, the tank situation honestly isn't too bad.

The problem is, why would anyone want to play a tank, who's expected to both lead the party and magically know every fight, when you could just faceroll everything as DD? It's as much a flaw in game design as it a flaw in people.

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Because 90% of the tanks are really terrible so if you want something done you have to do it yourself right . Of course then Im stuck with terrible DPS , funny enough most healers are quite good .. or at least when Im tanking because Im the best tank in game.

<-- I was kidding about being best tank , for some reason people took me seriously . why so serious :)

there is still a shortage of tanks in our world who know what to do. there are many tanks there but many just are bad. many times in 8man parties I've had to mt or teach tank how to mt.

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Originally Posted by Kaloran

Pretty sure the Adventurer in Need bonus is just gil and seals. You get the tomes for daily completion regardless of class. I'm not at home to check, but I'm 99% certain.

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No, it is also +40 myth tomes for high-level.

I think they should redo the UI, because a lot of people can't tell that there are two bonuses: a daily bonus (tomes or massive xp), and the adventurer in need bonus (small xp, some gil).

You can get the Adventurer in Need bonus every time you do DR (whee, 750 gil for tanks all the time!), but you only get the daily bonus once a day, although each DR has a daily bonus, so you can get 4 large DR bonuses per day.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Greetings. I play on Sargatanas ans we have here very bad situation with tanks- PF always in need of tanks. And not only that- that few tanks not skilled and we have in common just 2-3 good tanks. And what situation on your server?

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I assume your talking about ex primals. Well the thing is this game only lets you need the job you are on. Now then if us people who have tank geared we have to go on other less geared jobs to be able to need the stuff we want from primals. Thus making it take even longer to find tanks. I don't need the tank drops so when I do EX primals I have to go on another job.

There really needs to be a lot/pass system set up for premade groups so then we could say I am lotting X item and I will tank and its my best job.

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Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

You can get the Adventurer in Need bonus every time you do DR (whee, 750 gil for tanks all the time!)

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Sargatanas (Adamantoise previously) tank here.

I once remember when the Adventurer in Need bonus said "DPS" instead of "Tank" in DR.

Once.

Other than that,

1. PF pretty much always is "LF tank."
2. Sometimes the ilvl gear requirements are too high for new tanks to do the content.
3. Players hit harder than the mobs.
4. Taking a tanking vacation, so we will play DPS/healer for a bit instead.
5. Not much incentive to tank.
6. We may already have the gear we need.
7. Tendency to stick to groups within their LS/FC.
8. People would rather beat an enemy to death rather than an enemy beating them to death.
9. Tank is expected to know how a fight works, especially when it enters the period where 90%+ of groups are becoming "exp only/clear only/ilvl 80+" groups.

im a tanking machine pld or war only problem i have im stuck on gear to do higher level stuff thx to the all the limits the game has. PF seems to lv80 or nothing DF your destine to fail more then getting a win.
SE is half the problem when it come to lack of tanks.

lockouts are BS, its a themepark mmo it has a end it does not go forever. people already beat the game on there one job then they log out till next week.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

No, it is also +40 myth tomes for high-level.

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That's not being disputed. He's saying that the adventurer in need bonus is separate from the tomes and base gil/seals, and is simply more gil/seals.

Which it is.