I'm sure it has been said many time before.... but...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hotfoot

2 FC tanks. Good luck pulling with your caster, unless you switch to tank and go elsewhere.

Problem solved. Try harder.

---

I realize you're trying to have some kind of a passive aggressive forum ego trip here (for whatever reason) but you realize that casters can tank pretty much all of Prae and CM if they have a dedicated healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deculture

Their remedy to your "problem" was the implementation of the party finder and commendation system. Nobody should ever queue into a duty finder full of strangers and expect a speed run or a run with people patient enough to let you watch every single CS. If you want a guarantee on either, you should form your own party finder group to your specifications.

Splitting up players is not the way to go and would make queue times extremely bad, something that SE was thankfully smart enough to see.

---

Optional 'splitting' with higher rewards for those who assist newbies, in line with the additional time spent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deculture

I realize you're trying to have some kind of a passive aggressive forum ego trip here (for whatever reason) but you realize that casters can tank pretty much all of Prae and CM if they have a dedicated healer.

---

Not even remotely. Quite the opposite actually - trying to show that it is incredibly frustrating to deal with people who offer no consideration to those on their first play through. If you read a little further back, you'll see that the passive aggression was initiated by that particular poster. Sorry to disappoint you.

Additionally, all this tells me is that I need to bring a healer along with me if I can. To help people who want to enjoy their first run. Not to make it difficult for those who want a speed run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hotfoot

2 FC tanks. Good luck pulling with your caster, unless you switch to tank and go elsewhere.

Problem solved. Try harder.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hotfoot

I look forward to getting my gear upgrades, doing roulette with another FC tank and just straight up stopping idiots like you from ruining runs

---

YOU running with another FC tank is not stopping me. Why? Because you can't control the entire population AND I'm also a tank(I have a paladin and I'm working on a War)! So you can wait around all day, but I'm pulling! Not to mention you can only que for roulettes by your self! The reason you're even getting a party so fast is because of daily roulette (people that already beat it and are rushing to get tomes to do other things). You can't expect 7 other people to wait around for just you, you got to watch your CS, get over yourself.

I was not passive aggressive lol you just got butthurt because I said I'm going to keep going. And? I'm not going to fuss at you and say go watch it in the inn. You can watch your CS but if 7 other people are ready to go, we're going. Sorry :<

I try to let people watch the cutscenes, and since I'm a tank, I have a touch bit more control over it since dungeon etiquette dictates you don't go in front of the tank ;).

I'm guilty of rushing it without paying attention to though. I forget to look if anyone is watching the cut scenes simply from running them 50 times with groups whom have already watched them.

I'm sorry but watching the cut scenes from the safety of your inn room removes all of the excitement and intensity that comes from actually being in the dungeon and watching them in context. As someone who had to skip cutscenes at the request of the group, I will proudly stand up for those who truly want to EXPERIENCE the dungeon instead of speed run it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

My needs come first

---

I think that summarises everything I have tried to say to be honest. It's a faulty implementation, made worse by people like you. Hopefully SE fixes this in the next patch.

Whilst my ignorance of the roulette mechanics is evident, it's a shame that you haven't paid any attention to what I am trying to say. > You want speed runs, therefore you should be nowhere near people experiencing the story for the first time.

Simple as that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hotfoot

But my needs are more important than your needs BECAUSE MUH STORY

---

Nope sorry bub, if it's 7 people that are ready to go and you want them to wait for you. How does that not make you selfish? How does that justify it because "muh story" it doesn't. Now if it were 7 people that were watching the story and one person was rushing then that person is also being selfish. You guys think just because YOU want to watch the CS that makes it okay for everyone else to wait for just you. Guess what? It doesn't and it doesn't make you any different than the people you are fussing about.
Majority rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

I'm struggling to comprehend basic English

---

Again, we just need to keep people like you away from those experiencing the story for the first time. How is that difficult to understand? It doesn't matter if there is 1 Lumiin or 7 Lumiin's. Lumiin's should just play with other Lumiin's when speed running in this particular instance.

Does that help or are you still struggling?

This all would be solved by a single checkbox option: "Cutscenes Required". You can check it if you're running a dungeon for the first time, and voila -- you only get grouped with other, like minded people. Sure, your queue will probably be a bit longer? But it's the price you pay for having a group that won't leave you behind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jadmus

This all would be solved by a single checkbox option: "Cutscenes Required". You can check it if you're running a dungeon for the first time, and voila -- you only get grouped with other, like minded people. Sure, your queue will probably be a bit longer? But it's the price you pay for having a group that won't leave you behind.

---

Agreed.

Whilst I appreciate this is sort of available in Party Finder - I had no idea PF existed until yesterday. I used it and not a soul joined (bar 1 FC), even with me /shout marketing. So something similar but assigned to you initiating the dungeon would certainly be a step in the right direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jadmus

This all would be solved by a single checkbox option: "Cutscenes Required". You can check it if you're running a dungeon for the first time, and voila -- you only get grouped with other, like minded people. Sure, your queue will probably be a bit longer? But it's the price you pay for having a group that won't leave you behind.

---

I think the queue would take forever. I'd go ahead and make the whole thing unskippable.

personally I think if the "watching CS" option is selected then the damn things should be unskippable.

My first 8-man story runs, i got left out of 2 fights, nobody explained what was going on, this one tank was bitching the *whole* quest until we managed to shut him up, and my party literally killed the final boss fight during the cutscene he was introduced.


They shouldn't have been 8-man runs. At all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hotfoot

But it's all about me and muh story!

---

/Faceplam I don't know even, I cant....

Dude you're selfish and entitled. Everyone is to play how you want them to play (Hence you trying to stop me from running runs lmfao get real) Since most of the people are at lvl cap and SE decided to add more tomes and CM/PR to dailies I can say you shouldn't touch the DF without expecting a speed run. I agree that this is/was a problem even before SE said "I know what'll fix the speed run/cs problem, LET'S ADD MORE TOMES!" /rolls eyes But that's when being a decent human comes into play.

5 people watching CS? (Idc if it's their first or 200th) we're watching CS
1 person watching CS (idc if its their first or 200th) we're going.

I'm not letting one person rush several others and I'm not letting one person slow everyone down. That's just ridiculous! You aren't special 7 other people aren't going to wait around for you which is why they continued and you're here whining.

I understand your point completely, you're point is it was your first time so everyone should have stopped and waited on you hand and foot, uh no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

I'm not letting one person rush several others and I'm not letting one person slow everyone down. That's just ridiculous!

---

No, you're ridiculous. I don't care if it's 7 billion vs the 1, the new guy deserves the experience of watching the cutscenes.

SE, please, for future expansions can you not put CS in the middle of the friggin dungeon!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

You guys gotta get out of your single player mmo mindset. Group > individual.

---

How about since it's her money spent each month to PAY to PLAY, she get to play HOW SHE WANTS? If Enkidoh wants to enjoy her cut scenes then she damn well PAID to enjoy them.
"Group > Individual" my ass. When the GROUP starts paying MY monthly bill, then I'll shift my focus to them over my enjoyment.
I really can't stand people who feel they have the right to tell others HOW to play each month with their own money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

No, you're ridiculous. I don't care if it's 7 billion vs the 1, the new guy deserves the experience of watching the cutscenes.

SE, please, for future expansions can you not put CS in the middle of the friggin dungeon!

---

He can watch the CS! Since everyone cries about watching in the inn, whatever. Watch it in the dungeon. But if you get locked out of a boss fight oh well.

/shrugs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

Play how you want to play in group content.

---

That's why I said being a decent human comes in play, everyone is so selfish. "But it's mine so I'm important and everyone should do what I want all the time!!" If that's the way they really think, why do they expect other people to play how they want?

/shudders

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jingai

How about since it's her money spent each month to PAY to PLAY, she get to play HOW SHE WANTS?

---

I love it when players use this line. Play how you want to play in group content. That's why there's a kick option. You can play like an idiot, just won't be in my group.

If you're DD and you like to play how you want to play by pulling mobs before the tank. /kick
If you're tank but you want to play like a DD /kick
If you're healer and want to play like a DD /kick

Yeah play how you want to play, just not with me :) I like to play how I want to play too. But who gets to decide which way to play? The group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

That's why I said being a decent human comes in play, everyone is so selfish. "But it's mine so I'm important and everyone should do what I want all the time!!" If that's the way they really think, why do they expect other people to play how they want?

/shudders

---

The issue is some players feel entitle to a single player experience in a multi-player game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

You can play like an idiot, just won't be in my group.

---

I would not presume to refer to ME as an idiot sir. MY point was that if I choose to enjoy a CS, it's my f'ing money, it's my right to enjoy it. As is anyone else. When I'm in a party however, I do my job just fine, no complaints. The group doesn't decide how I play, I do what I'm suppose to so it flows how it should, NOT because I'm ordered to do anything. If that's how you run groups, I wouldn't want to play with you anyways. However, you ough'ta be more careful WHO you refer to as an idiot. I didn't judge you before, I just disagreed with people being forced to skip their CS's on the whim of someone in a hurry when they've spent good money monthly to be able to enjoy it if this choose to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hotfoot

Moments ago, during my first Praetorium run, I was met with a delicious mix of:

---

I feel you man, in reality the people should grow some patience and let you do what you paid for the game to do, enjoy the game. A lot of people are just rude. Which just shows you the state of the game. (personally im surprised they didn't use the kick feature on you)

GL to you though, hope you find the small percentage of people that actually care and will chill there while you watch you cutscene.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

The issue is some players feel entitle to a single player experience in a multi-player game.

---

It's a Pay to Play game with avenues for BOTH single or multi-player content. You're misusing the term "entitlement" in regards to this issue. When it's MY money being spent, if I want to feel 'entitled' to enjoy it single player, that's my business. If I want to spend it doing Multi-player, fine. It's my choice. Now, if you do a dungeon, then you're already accepting that you are in a group scenario and will need to work with others. IF you purposefully try to muck it up for others, that's different. I agree with you in that regard. I personally enjoy doing both single player AND multi-player. This topic has been twisted from it's original post, which just involved someone upset being forced to skip CS's when they want to view it the first time. They should be allowed. I was forced to skip mine cause someone speedran, so I sympathise with the OP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

I feel you man, in reality the people should grow some patience and let you do what you paid for the game to do, enjoy the game. A lot of people are just rude. Which just shows you the state of the game. (personally im surprised they didn't use the kick feature on you)

GL to you though, hope you find the small percentage of people that actually care and will chill there while you watch you cutscene.

---

To be fair, i've been in more runs than not that if people wanted to watch them, we let them, just wanted to know so we didn't go in on boss. Once, i was in a run that everyone watched them, and we even wiped three times, yet, we finished with plenty of time, so the arguments it takes so long to watch them is bunk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

You cutscene watchers are so selfish expecting the entire raid to wait for you at every cutscene while taking your sweet time reading. Group > individual.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

Would be the right thing to do for the first timer to say I'll just watch it at the inn since the group wants to SR or I can leave and find another group that wants to watch every cutscene. You guys gotta get out of your single player mmo mindset. Group > individual.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

I do what the group wants. If I queue into WP with new players, then I'll slow it down. If I queued into a group that knows it already, then it's a speed run. I don't know why players are acting like victims or something horrible. You can watch the cs later.

---

So to all of this above... No, group does not always count for more than the individual. What you "speedrunners" are ignoring, is that this is their first time. You only get one first time to experience this gateway into end-game content.

And you are ruining it. You are pushing away the people who will eventually be your comrades in arms, the people who will help you through Crystal Tower and any end-game dungeon you go to the Duty Finder for.

Can you just stop for a minute and think about what this must feel like to someone who has never done these dungeons before?

They've gone through the story, they get to this trumped up dungeon where all of the big stuff is going to really start happening. Finally after hundreds of quests of being an underpaid postal working, of fetching stinky cheese and crappy wine... You're actually going to take on the big bad!

But wait, no... Someone else already killed the big bad while you were watching the first cutscene to get an idea of what you're going in to.

Your experience has been ruined.

And why? Why was it ruined? Because someone wanted to get a few more of the more pointless tokens completed faster. Yep, your understanding of who that boss was, why you're fighting them, the importance of your mission (and in some cases even getting to fight the mob at all) is blown away because someone wants step three of a five step gearing process at end-game faster.

Do you not see how awful this is?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

Yep that's why I'm glad I'm a tank AND healer, if you wanna watch CS go for it, I'm not stopping you, but I'm not about to hold up the entire group for ONE person. It's a win-win situation anyway. That person gets to watch CS and a easy run, I get to hurry and get my tomes.

---

How is not getting to participate in a dungeon a win for the new person? They're going to have no idea how the dungeon is supposed to be run so they're never going to be able to go back and help other new players.

Castrum in particular if you don't know the intended way to break the dungeon is an utter Charlie Foxtrot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damifino

The problem with Castrum and Prae being, they each have 12 cutscenes. Waiting for people to watch them all in their entirety adds at a minimum 35 minutes to the run. This is a good long time for people to stand around with their hands in their pockets.

---

Prae does add a lot of time for its cutscenes, yes. But they're the culmination of your game. It's what you've been working towards this whole time. Caestrum doesn't actually add much time as most of the cutscenes are only a few seconds long anyway.

All in all though, it's just indicative of the "now now now" attitude of current MMO players that a tool that was put in to reward you for helping new people is being used as a tool to be lazy and unkind to people who are new to the game.

I have yet to actually see anyone who's done the Duty Roulette for these story dungeons be in a group without at least one new person.

So think about that for a moment... If it wasn't for that new person you wouldn't be getting your precious tomes of philosophy at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabbitzero

To be fair, i've been in more runs than not that if people wanted to watch them, we let them, just wanted to know so we didn't go in on boss. Once, i was in a run that everyone watched them, and we even wiped three times, yet, we finished with plenty of time, so the arguments it takes so long to watch them is bunk.

---

To be fair, you probably had at least half of said group actually formed with friends right? If so, your the rare minority im taking about lol. The other people just have to follow suite because they cant complete the instance on their own. :D

That or your just incredibly lucky not to have ran into any rude people yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caraway

Snip.

---

Because it can't be ran again. Because you can't ask people what to do? Gasp o:

I just think it's hilarious that you guys think it's okay to hold 7 billion people up (like that one guy said) because of some stupid CS that can be rewatched every single time you enter the dungeon.

I remember two prae runs I've been in where the other 7 of us just zerged through everything while one person sat through every cutscene. They were still in cutscene when we exited. Kind of unfortunate but they got their cs's lol. I'm not sure they did more than fight two or three packs of trash mobs.

Generally the pace of the 2 dungeons is going to be set by the best geared tank.

Whenever we ran them for people in our FC, we'd get 1-2 pugs that would get impatient but as we were both tanks and healers and 2-3 of the 4 dps they were forced to go at our pace. Some whinged and moaned. Some left right at the first boss when it became clear that we weren't going to hurry people out of CSs.

The best thing is to form a PF group and check the "Story focused, no skipping CS" option and/or beg a bunch of people from your FC to help. Get at least enough people from your server to be both the tanks and both healers (Might want 5 people to make sure any vote to kicks fail). DPS learn to either leave or wait when no one's tanking/healing when they get impatient and facepull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caraway

Do you not see how awful this is?

---

Not really, sounds over dramatic. If it was that important to them they can just set up a group to watch cutscenes together, it's not going to change how players play in df. That or if S.E decides to add a cutscene only checkbox but I doubt it will work since there's really not much demand for it. The queue time would probably be hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

Not really, sounds over dramatic. If it was that important to them they can just set up a group to watch cutscenes together, it's not going to change how players play in df. That or if S.E decides to add a cutscene only checkbox but I doubt it will work since there's really not much demand for it. The queue time would probably be hours.

---

Then you are short-sighted and I hope you enjoy the rest of the toxic community you're fostering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

If it was that important to them they can just set up a group to watch cutscenes together

---

Agreed.

Had a guy in my fc recently, just made it to end game and wanted to watch the CS. He asked us to run it with him and if it would be okay to watch cs, since he knew that he would most likely get a speed run in the DF. What's wrong with people doing that?
In WP sometimes I want to go slow, everyone usually speed runs that in DF so I grab a group of people to go slow with. Common sense right? Or should I whine about how it's okay for me to hold up the party?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

Agreed.

Had a guy in my fc recently, just made it to end game and wanted to watch the CS. He asked us to run it with him and if it would be okay to watch cs, since he knew that he would most likely get a speed run in the DF. What's wrong with people doing that?
In WP sometimes I want to go slow, everyone usually speed runs that in DF so I grab a group of people to go slow with. Common sense right? Or should I whine about how it's okay for me to hold up the party?

---

Because it is common knowledge that if you want a speed run you call out in mor dhona. IF you use DF, you better be prepared to experience the game as it was intended.

This entire thread is basically people holding expectations for a random duty finder/LFD system group of strangers (whether it's the expectation of a speed run or a no-cutscene skip run). Are you people new to MMOs? Have you never played an MMO with an LFD kind of system in place? For everyone's sake, just use the amazing party finder tool to put together your own group with like-minded individuals. Hell, SE even put it "don't skip cutscenes" and "urgent" as drop down options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

Agreed.

Had a guy in my fc recently, just made it to end game and wanted to watch the CS. He asked us to run it with him and if it would be okay to watch cs, since he knew that he would most likely get a speed run in the DF. What's wrong with people doing that?
In WP sometimes I want to go slow, everyone usually speed runs that in DF so I grab a group of people to go slow with. Common sense right? Or should I whine about how it's okay for me to hold up the party?

---

You guys keep missing (purposefully or not, I'm not sure) the point that these are integral to the story-line of the game and it's someone's first time doing it. Not their 292983457th.

Honestly, I think putting the Story Roulette in was a bad mistake and I'm not surprised it brought back the poor behavior that these two dungeons saw before the buff to AK/WP rewards.

What boggles my mind though is they're just Philosophy tomestones. You can get better gear than that just as easily.

New players should get to have their CM or their Prae and see all the cutscenes. The first time.

There ought to be a way for SE to implement a thing where if there's a first-timer in those dungeons, you cannot skip cutscenes, and you cannot start bossfights without everyone out of their cutscene.

And no, I don't care if it adds more time to your day - if it's that big of an issue, then drop the group and eat your 30 min debuff and go queue for something else.

what I love is they create the party finder so those wanting to do speed runs or no cut scenes can find similar minded people to do a run. So fast forward and those people are telling those who want to watch cut scenes to use the very system that was meant for those who didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

Agreed.

Had a guy in my fc recently, just made it to end game and wanted to watch the CS. He asked us to run it with him and if it would be okay to watch cs, since he knew that he would most likely get a speed run in the DF. What's wrong with people doing that?
In WP sometimes I want to go slow, everyone usually speed runs that in DF so I grab a group of people to go slow with. Common sense right? Or should I whine about how it's okay for me to hold up the party?

---

If it's something you don't like? Change it yourself. If you see a party that wants level 90 to do Titan HM, make your own lvl 60 group or whatever. The community isn't going to change for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

New players should get to have their CM or their Prae and see all the cutscenes. The first time.

There ought to be a way for SE to implement a thing where if there's a first-timer in those dungeons, you cannot skip cutscenes, and you cannot start bossfights without everyone out of their cutscene.

And no, I don't care if it adds more time to your day - if it's that big of an issue, then drop the group and eat your 30 min debuff and go queue for something else.

---

Finally, something you post that i can agree with! :p (just messing around). Seriously though I agree, if people can't handle it, go freaking spam in mor a bit and see if you get any bites. Its that easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caraway

Snip.

---

I don't understand why they did that either. Really bad move.

So since it's someone's first time that makes it totally okay to hold up every other single person in the group. Yep, makes sense.

What gear can you get that's easier than philos aside from crafted gear? There's a myth cap and CT has a week loot lock out. If there's a set I'm missing please tell me because I hate token systems all together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Snip.

---

If it's common knowledge why do I ALWAYS get speed runs? >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doo

Too much sense.

---

They don't understand that, the entitlement is blinding them lol. If the majority of the community is doing speed runs, either get used too it or make your own party. Like you guys keep saying it's YOUR 15 dollars, it's THEIR 15 dollars too. If they wanna speed run let them and don't cry when you get locked out of a fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lumiin

Yep, makes sense.

---

I'm going to take that bit as complete sarcasm and bite. It actually makes perfect sense. The game was, by freaking design, to be played through and to watch the cutscene (skipping optional). They did the roulette because a lot of the newer lower levels weren't getting anyone to run their story with them, which was costing them subs because people would get bored/frustrated. Thus they made a system that rewarded people helping others to get through dungeons. Tada! Not that hard to comprehend really.

Long story short if people can't handle helping the new guys out, there's a rather large, beautiful, and wondrous place called Mor Dhona (hell, ill be happy to draw you a map if you don't know it by now) where you can happily spam and get groups together of like minded individuals that cant stand to let someone watch a 30 second cutscene, isn't that lovely? Feel free! :D *thumbs up*

(Big Helpful Note) All in all you guys (note, all of you) making a big fuss over cutscenes aren't helping the game at all. Think on it for a moment, you really want to make first timers feel unwelcome and make them lose immersion just because you all want to skip 30 seconds of easy waiting? Thats pretty messed up and self defeating in the long run.

Is this 8 pages of replies by entitled new players demanding that experienced players carry them AND watch all the cutscenes? You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Set up a Party Finder group if you want your 'story mode' run. If you use Duty Roulette/Finder and like your short queue times, then expect players to skip the cutscenes.