Players need job/class combo info ASAP to have time to prepare.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

I wish to be a bard so I can serenade you all.

♪ Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you♫

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First I thought it was only a colored text but you didn't let me down.

I'm disappointed that classes will only have 1 job, but it's ok for some of the classes. For examples when I started GLA I thought I'd be a DPS swordsman, turned out GLA isn't quite that. So it makes sense for it to become PLD and nothing else, I guess. But as it's been said, CON and THM are so hybrid they can only do 2 things:

1. Recontrust them from bottom to top. This will inevitable cause a lot of rage, I think everyone can see it coming.
2. Give 2 jobs to THM and CON. For example, WHM and BLM for CON, and I don't know, maybe RDM and DRK for THM? Giving WHM and BLM to CON makes sense. RDM makes sense for THM but I can't really think of another job for it that isn't far fetched to some extent. DRK is, because THM is a mage and DRK is a fighter. TIM(?) is, because nothing in the lore indicates that THM has any control over time. So yeah.

Anyway I think option number 2 would be much better, and I was actually hoping they'd give 2 jobs for each class.

Something like this:

GLA: PLD or ??? (NIN? lol)
PGL: MNK or THF
MRD: WAR or ??? (DRK?)
LNC: DRG or ??? (SAM?)
ARC: RNG or MSK/COR
CON: BLM or WHM
THM: RDM or ??? (TIM? DRK?)

It certainly would have made more sense to give two options, just so the player actually does have an option. I imagine that was complicated for them though because some classes just don't have any logical job beyond the first. Lancer > Dragoon comes to mind.

But maybe this is just the start and later they will add more for each class. Who knows.

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Originally Posted by Nilheim

Anyway I think option number 2 would be much better, and I was actually hoping they'd give 2 jobs for each class.

Something like this:

GLA: PLD or ??? (NIN? lol)
PGL: MNK or THF
MRD: WAR or ??? (DRK?)
LNC: DRG or ??? (SAM?)
ARC: RNG or MSK/COR
CON: BLM or WHM
THM: RDM or ??? (TIM? DRK?)

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I was hoping they'd go more that way, myself. Since jobs won't be leveled, they're really like choosing a spec for your class. Give us a choice of direction instead of locking into one class / one job.

Well Im going to go off the 1-1 ratio;and what we have seen so far of the BLM and DRK AF type gear.

GLA: PLD
PGL: MNK
MRD: DRK
LNC: DRG
ARC: RNG
CON: WHM
THM: BLM

I would be VERY happy with this.That being said I'm still in favor of a FF tactics style job system,which i still see as a possibility either now or when advanced jobs come out.

I see MRD being WAR instead of DRK when the jobs roll out.

I also see the mages being reversed.

CON: BLM
THM: WHM

What I'd really like to see is a branch between advanced roles for our current jobs. It would give a little more uniqueness between play styles. Now I know some current jobs like LNC could only possibly go DRG, but we have CON that could go WHM or BLM, THM could be all RDM or RDM and Time Mage/???...yeah others have mentioned this before.

For me it's a bother to know atm that this only upgrades into this.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I see MRD being WAR instead of DRK when the jobs roll out.

I also see the mages being reversed.

CON: BLM
THM: WHM

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Same. Con is already not useful compared to thm. Better to give the thm whm and con blm and let the thms try to pitch their usefulness as a main healer/party support while con goes DD.

I kindof hope marauder goes berserker. Even more offense than warrior. Marauder is just mediocre at everything they're made to do, and the argument that that triple combination of average makes someone wanted is kindof how warrior started off. If it weren't for berserk and agressor definitively stating that no, warrior is a DD not a tank, it'd have failed miserably in XI.

So Id like to see MRD become drk or brk, or much much more offensively oriented. Not so much warrior, or average-good at everything, not best at anything which is just a reinforcement of what marauder fails to be.

Yea,it could very easily go that way if MAR isn't DRK I think WAR as well,I was just thinking that since we saw DRK gear it would be a job,and it seems to make sense if we have PLD that we have its opposite in DRK,just as i think we will have WHM and BLM.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

I wish to be a bard so I can serenade you all.

♪ Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you♫

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Then in that case I want dancer so I can dance when I want to.

Who says that they won't have jobs that require 2 classes to open them up after these intial jobs. Dark knight would fit perfectly into this. They could have it were you'd have to have MRD to 30 and THM to 22 or something. I know people claim they have seen what looks to be Drk armor, but that does mean it's coming with the initial job release. But we have the weapon issue, does drk use a 2 handed axe, or does MRD get the ability to wield great swords when it has the drk job set?

Everyone's always hating on MAR...but I'm not making excuses for it,But PLEASE SE for the love of god make MAR a straight up dd class

There are a ton of questions that won't be easy, all having to do with the obvious statement that these two systems were never supposed to ever be together, and will be impossible to make it less than obvious that the job system wasn't supposed to be.

Still, has to be done, and we'll just have to make do with anything that doesn't make sense as necessary.

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

Everyone's always hating on MAR...but I'm not making excuses for it,But PLEASE SE for the love of god make MAR a straight up dd class

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Let's just say that in the raptor party today, everyone would have been better off, with better sp, and just as fast kills...If I wasn't even there. Contributed nothing to the party (there were 3 archers). Only dragged SP down. I disoriented and swung the axe twice then skull sundered for a third of the damage the archers took instantly before they even weaponskilled.

Waste of a party slot. Felt great!

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

There are a ton of questions that won't be easy, all having to do with the obvious statement that these two systems were never supposed to ever be together, and will be impossible to make it less than obvious that the job system wasn't supposed to be.

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There are times like these that I think it would have been better to start at square one. >.<

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Let's just say that in the raptor party today, everyone would have been better off, with better sp, and just as fast kills...If I wasn't even there. Contributed nothing to the party (there were 3 archers). Only dragged SP down. I disoriented and swung the axe twice then skull sundered for a third of the damage the archers took instantly before they even weaponskilled.

Waste of a party slot. Felt great!

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that is why i took ARC to 50 and am working on THM, I wont be left in town,that being said,I want MAR to be my main,please make it a viable option.

Seeing as how the jobs are supposed to be limitations as to what skills a player may select from the armoury system, and the fact that some jobs have been defined by certain weapons (i.e. both Paladin and Red Mage are swordsmen) I doubt that each job will be locked to only one class. It's more likely that the job will define what skillsets you may choose from.

Using the Pld and Rdm as an example, both jobs can select gladiator as thier weapon choice. In addition, both may be able to select additional skills from con, thm, and sentinal. However, the pld wouldn't be able to select elemental magic from con's list of skills though they can still use cures, protect, and shell. the rdm, being more magically inclined, would be free to use most of con's spells, with the possible exception of elemental DOTs. Likewise the rdm would have access to gla and sen skills, though not on the same level as the pld.

Again, just speculation on my part, but it seems logical.

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

that is why i took ARC to 50 and am working on THM.

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Yup, you and everyone else. We're going down the exact same road we did in FFXI, right down to the same damn jobs running away with the game as last time, and no one apparently cares. When the level cap's raised, archers and thms will stick together and leave the rest of the classes and jobs in the dust. See ya, wouldn't want to be ya. Better you than me. K got an archer to replace you you can go are you ready to go yet archer's on their way ready to leave can you leave yet okay archer's here kicking you thanks for party archer's here archer archer archer.

That's kindof why I hope that archers get a solo class overlay, not a DD overlay. And thms get whm.

Talking about things players need to prepare for, that's a whole other story. The mess we're going to be in if classes and jobs aren't balanced soon.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

There are times like these that I think it would have been better to start at square one. >.<

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If they started over, they would have had to reboot some time in 2012. At this point, they just have to make do with a bad foundation, because they can't start over. It's possible. Just harder than it should be.

the job specialization idea would fit fine, except they are going to force fit some classes. it would be better if neither con and thm became whm. and best if theif got a new class. The should add a new class for whm, or ignore whm and make a dif healing class. However since they arent making new classes, and want to put in the most classic recognizable jobs of FF they are going to force whm down some ones throat when it fits neither class most likely.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Yup, you and everyone else. We're going down the exact same road we did in FFXI, right down to the same damn jobs running away with the game as last time, and no one apparently cares.

That's kindof why I hope that archers get a solo class overlay, not a DD overlay. And thms get whm.

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Doesn't even need the job system to nerf ARC, auto-attack could easily do that. I'd still play ARc/RNG whatever it's supposed to be I just love ranged attacks :D

And don't worry grimlock, MAR will definitely be a DD class. SE has definitely realized the issue with PUG and MRD being tank/dd's and hence the job system is coming out. I'm going to guess since SE states that classes will be more solo oriented that certain jobs will have attack boosts and defense penalty to make them deal much more damage, while taking much more. Therefore, being better for group play with a designated tank.

At this point I'm afraid autoattack is just as likely to give archers free tp between arrow shots as it is meant to reel them in. We'll see. In the epic nerf archer topic, we did get a commitment to balance classes whenever and however needed. Then again, Yoshida loves ranged physical classes. Wouldn't be surprised if multishot's recast timer was 3 seconds and could now be spammed in battle every time a buff is up.

You can tell how optimistic I am at this point that first and second class classes and jobs are only months away from fully expressing themselves.

For now, all I want is to be let known ahead of time if I need to be dropping conjurer or sticking with it. If it doesn't have travel benefits, or nuking benefits, I levelled the wrong thing and need like a month to fix that.

I don't like thaumaturgy lore. It's not FF to me, but if it has the FF mage I want for ransom I'll have to do it.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I would think that a logical first step to starting the job system is to assign each class their future job, then start to work on it. Therefore, this info should be known to the devs relatively early in the process, almost from its inception.

Those job/class assignments are actually really important to players. Many of us are levelling entire classes with the future job assignment in mind. That is, they're not playing thaumaturge to play thaumaturge. They're playing thaumaturge to be a black mage or red mage. Needless to say, levelling of that class takes many hours.

When job assigments for each class are known, could we get informed of that ASAP so we have time this summer to prepare for that?

If for instance, someone who loves blm levelled conjurer...but at the last minute finds out conjurer actually unlocks white mage...that's instant rage factor there. Or if someone finds out that black mage, or thief, or summoner isn't an initial job at all, that's rage factor too. And if say marauder gets beastmaster...that is bedlam right there. Players need time to cope with the possibility that their job doesn't match why they levelled that class, or that their job isn't even in the first round at all.

Players will tolerate any potential disappointment/missed expectations the more time they're given to react to that news.

So earlier is better. Like...months in advance. As soon as possible. People need time to react to that decision.

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I agree completely! Please let us know SE!

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Originally Posted by Nilheim

GLA: PLD or ??? (NIN? lol)

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I was playing FFIV on my PSP tonight when I realized... why couldn't Gladiator branch off into Paladin and Dark Knight? Just like Cecil, you could choose between the path of a holy or dark swordsman.

Edit: Seems Eldaena already thought of this first. >.<

Good brainstorming!

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

It's almost like each class needs to split into at least two jobs to make sense.

Con - BLM or WHM
Thm- TIM or RDM
Gla - PLD or DRK
Pug - MNK or THF
Lnc- DRA or ...
Mrd- Beastmaster or ...Warrior?
Arc- RNG or Corsair?

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I'd love it if they ninja'd it in the game and just left it as foot notes in the update. Just like the good old days of XI.

-Oh yeah by the way we added new missions to the game.
-By the way Corsair AF quests can now be done
-By the way you can redo your ToAU rings now
-Oh yeah, Sozu Rogueberry is now a forced spawn...enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I was playing FFIV on my PSP tonight when I realized... why couldn't Gladiator branch off into Paladin and Dark Knight? Just like Cecil, you could choose between the path of a holy or dark swordsman.

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I WOULD LOVE THIS,but am thinking its not likely since they already stated 1 class =1 job,but here's to hope.

To me it seems like some jobs will have two roles each or more.

Conjurer- Whm or Blm
Thuamuturge- Rdm or Necromancer. EQOA they could be heals by give their health to the tank, it's sort the same in this game.
Arcanist could be a time mage, while Stavesman could be summoner.

con is going WHM , THM is going BLM 99%

probably CON get some debuffs ( slow , dia , paralyze ) , while THM conserve the absorb , and umbral attacks

Reading the class description looks like THM was going to be the caster DD ,with some healing in a pinch (Heal over time) , however Sacrifice is amazing.........so that truncated Cure

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

con is going WHM , THM is going BLM 99%

probably CON get some debuffs ( slow , dia , paralyze ) , while THM conserve the absorb , and umbral attacks

Reading the class description looks like THM was going to be the caster DD ,with some healing in a pinch (Heal over time) , however Sacrifice is amazing.........so that truncated Cure

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I'm not quite sure how you worked that out when Thaumaturge literally translates as "miracle worker" - it would make a lot more sense for them to become WHM, with Conjurer (who already get the main nukes......) to become BLM.

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

I wasn't thinking new abilities, but what if they take sacrifice over to conjurer, and debuffs from conjurer over to thm? That's the kind of thing I'm wondering about....it's almost like conjurer needs to turn into black mage or white mage, but where does that leave thm? Time mage and red mage? I don't know.

It's almost like each class needs to split into at least two jobs to make sense.

Edit:

Con - BLM or WHM
Thm- TIM or RDM
Gla - PLD or DRK
Pug - MNK or THF
Lnc- DRA or ...
Mrd- Beastmaster or ...Warrior?
Arc- RNG or Corsair?

I dunno how to fill in the holes. >.<

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I've been saying this for so long ; ;

2 jobs per class would be the best and most fun way of doing this system. Each class could fill 2 party roles depending on what's needed. PUG could tank as Monk and then have some more thief-based class, like boxer or something. LNC could DD on DRG and then have a tank. MRD could tank on WAR, DPS/Debuff on DRK. GLD could tank on PLD, DPS on berserker or something.

That way, Conjurer could be black mage and white mage, thaum could be red mage and... some form of healer or something that performs differently to WHM (through sacrificial type stuff, could get martyr and that)

Definitely seems like the best and most flexible system.

Edit: As for future classes, as others have said I could see Arcanist becoming time mage and scholar/mathematician/sage/something intellectual, and musketeer becoming corsair/gun mage/sniper etc.

They've got plenty of options just drawing on old games, whilst keeping the characteristics of the current classes and splitting them up.

I would be raged if they just reset the "levels" not "classes" made us start over from level 1mrd--->said "level" to unlock a job. In the meantime, its all speculation and should be left to that until they give details. I agree though they should have hammered out the basics. A sneak peek wouldnt hurt. Another (under devolpment video maybe) with the job system in mind? Just my 2cents on the matter..

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Originally Posted by Sephr

2 jobs per class would be the best and most fun way of doing this system.

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Maybe in winter we'll see 2nd jobs for each class. This is just where it starts.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Maybe in winter we'll see 2nd jobs for each class. This is just where it starts.

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; - ; My wonderland is shattered.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Maybe in winter we'll see 2nd jobs for each class. This is just where it starts.

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Even if it takes till winter that's fine with me, just knowing they don't want to stop at one job per class would be a nice reassurance.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Even if it takes till winter that's fine with me, just knowing they don't want to stop at one job per class would be a nice reassurance.

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They've really made it hard on themselves by sticking to this system. Classes will be a pain in the neck to add themselves since 3 classes already make the other classes worthless except for substitute classes you settle for. Then not only do you have to add the class, you have to add the jobs to it and balance those. Basically every time you add something to the game, you have to balance it three times. They couldn't even balance FFXI, and they only had to balance each addition once. Painful.

If classes didn't exist, it'd be much easier, but you can't level jobs. If jobs didn't exist then it would be more generic garbage jobs that no one cares about in a FF.

This solution is completely inefficient and difficult to develop. I honestly don't think they realize how hard this is going to always be. They've pretty much commited themselves to years of painful development.

prepare for what? If your leveling classes specifically for their job, that is a stupid strategy. The reason I say this is, jobs are just specialised versions of that class. And players will be locked into playing ONLY with that classes abilities. Which isn't what the current system is about.

Honestly my 2 cents is people are taking this game to seriously, and their elitism is showing. Which is not a good thing, you got stupid debates because of this mindset, SE don't need to give us details, and no paladin is not confirmed. I highly suggest we do not assume we are getting the "typical" jobs from ffxi. The classes do not really have ties to a certain ffxi job. Like pug was gonna have thief skills, thm is a mix of light and dark spells, while conj is healing and elemental, Glad to what I know doesn't have any healing abilities.

IMO there is nothing we need to prepare for, just play the classes the way you want. Once the job system is out, do the quest put it on and just play as normal.

Because all they are doing is locking that job to use that class skills only and adding special abilities. Pretty much imo nothing new to what we already got.

And yes each class gets 1 job. The jobs are just a specialised version of the basic class. And just adding job skills which again i say nothing new. To what does on for each class.

They don't need to give us info on everything and we shouldn't be so quick to hate on them. Pretty much say "we want info so we can tell you if we like it or not" They don't need to do that. Just be surpised when they come, just again do not expect ffxi jobs. I'm more inclined to look to ff tactics/ tactics advanced, or ff13, or they may create new ones.

If they just go the easy route and turn CON and THM into BLM and WHM no matter which way they do it there will be massive amounts of raging. I don't want to play WHM so whichever class gets that is essentially wasted SP for me. The only way to do this is to allow CON to become BLM or WHM. To keep things fair (other classes only having one job) they could lock the player on to whichever they choose for 24 hours or whatever so you can't just switch whenever. THM could become anything.

Here is a solution, rank every DoM/DoW.

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Originally Posted by Honz

Here is a solution, rank every DoM/DoW.

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Why? I believe people have better things to do than that.