A party member has withdrawn...

Multiple ways of fixing this and hopefully SE will take one of them. I would prefer if it didn't show you the dungeon was in progress when the queue popped. Then people wouldn't know at what point the dungeon is and they would stop fishing for it. I'm also a fan of the loot being at the end and you only being able to roll on loot for bosses you killed.

Truth is, this doesn't actually increased your queue time. If the person who queues and then bails because it isn't 2/3 or 3/4 in progress just never queued, you'd still be waiting just as long. The fact that they CAN do this to you means that there is no one else queueing up for that role.

Not saying it's right. Just pointing out it doesn't actually increase your queue time.

This of course doesn't happen to any noticeable extent on the JP servers, JP players aren't the selfish, self-centred jerks many 'western' players are.

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Originally Posted by am0n

Truth is, this doesn't actually increased your queue time.

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You're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Reishi

oh well, found that just secs ago:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

maybe helpful not only for me!

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I'm not sure that is accurate. It suggests that each item drops off two different bosses. Here is another one:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XSlVDYmc#gid=0

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

You're wrong.

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No, actually, I am correct. You just want to believe it increases your queue time because you wish to remain ignorant to the way the system actually works.

The fact that one person can keep queueing and get your duty finder to pop means that there is no one else trying to fill the role you need. Take that person out of the equation and you wouldn't magically find someone else to take his role. There is no one else. You'd still be waiting, only without the annoying popups every 20 seconds.

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Originally Posted by am0n

Truth is, this doesn't actually increased your queue time. If the person who queues and then bails because it isn't 2/3 or 3/4 in progress just never queued, you'd still be waiting just as long. The fact that they CAN do this to you means that there is no one else queueing up for that role.

Not saying it's right. Just pointing out it doesn't actually increase your queue time.

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Um what? I love people trying to justify df spamming by this. Never increases queue time? Never gueued into party? Really? If Im in DF and df pops with a full party, you have been assigned to that party regardless if you joined in progress or from the start. Withdrawing from that party delays everyones start given that 15 seconds later, we could have been in the instance and not spending 40 minutes watching people spam df trying to get to the end. People will try to rationalize their behavior however makes them feel better I guess.

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Originally Posted by am0n

No, actually, I am correct. You just want to believe it increases your queue time because you wish to remain ignorant to the way the system actually works.

The fact that one person can keep queueing and get your duty finder to pop means that there is no one else trying to fill the role you need. Take that person out of the equation and you wouldn't magically find someone else to take his role. There is no one else. You'd still be waiting, only without the annoying popups every 20 seconds.

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Put that person into the equation and they're taking up a spot from somebody who would start arguement works both ways. Justify away.... Oh look it's a healer trying to jusitfy it one of the most frequent guilty parties...

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Put that person into the equation and they're taking up a spot from somebody who would start arguement works both ways. Justify away.... Oh look it's a healer trying to jusitfy it one of the most frequent guilty parties...

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BURN THE HEALERS!!!!

/petition to remove the role of the game, and while they are at it tanks too... DDs for the win! (juggly and bouncy!)


On a more serious note, it may or may not, more likely it does, because that person is taking up the space of someone who does wanna join, im pretty sure more than one alliance gets stuck at this at the same time, at the least, and if this was the case at the very least one of them could be already inside.

Anyway. Pics or it didn't happen! (prove your point, winkwinkwankwank!)

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

BURN THE HEALERS!!!!

/petition to remove the role of the game, and while they are at it tanks too... DDs for the win! (juggly and bouncy!)


On a more serious note, it may or may not, more likely it does, because that person is taking up the space of someone who doesnt wanna join, im pretty sure more than one alliance gets stuck at this at the same time, at the least, and if this was the case at the very least one of them could be already inside.

Anyway. Pics or it didn't happen! (prove your point, winkwinkwankwank!)

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Nonsensical rebuttal just as I expected and you just completely invalidated you arguement previously.


only way to solve the problem is to remove the option to simultaneously queue for inprogress and new start instances. It would eliminate the df spamming entirely for new parties and people who want spam in progress can do so to their hearts content without interrupting groups trying to start since people spamming for inprogress have no intention of joining a new start.

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Originally Posted by flamds1

only way to solve the problem is to remove the option to simultaneously queue for inprogress and new start instances

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And then no one would queue to make new runs so there are runs to join 'in progress' if a slot opens. Its a huge catch 22.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

And then no one would queue to make new runs so there are runs to join 'in progress' if a slot opens. Its a huge catch 22.

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Really? so everyone who shows up in a new party is queueing for in progress?

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Nonsensical rebuttal just as I expected and you just completely invalidated you arguement previously.


only way to solve the problem is to remove the option to simultaneously queue for inprogress and new start instances. It would eliminate the df spamming entirely for new parties and people who want spam in progress can do so to their hearts content without interrupting groups trying to start since people spamming for inprogress have no intention of joining a new start.

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That would work too, that way, people who wanna join a duty already started would have to eat hours ques because a whole bunch of ppl are gonna try to also leech that easy win, while people who doesn't care will get their group formed, though, it will take longer since the choice to join already started might be more obvious to some others that couldnt bother to be annoying and spam the queue button in search for a group already in progress.


However, what arguement is that which I completely invalidated?

edit: *I see I made a typo so I'll correct that as well on the previous post (I hope that was not it, since obviously it's a typoe because otherwise it would make no sense, and you would be a complete moron for falling for it)*

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Really? so everyone who shows up in a new party is queuing for in progress?

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And if you could just join 'in progress' matches and not be classified as an ass would you do it? I am sure most would. Most don't want to waste time killing mobs they don't get stuff from. But they don't constantly withdraw because they have enough decency in them not to do it. Remove the 'I will look like a dick if i do it' and more people will do it.

Look what SE had to do to get people to 'help' with level ~15 dungeons because no one wanted to do them anymore because they were all 50. Give people the option to not do something and take an easier path and they will.

Besides the last thing this game needs is more ways to segregate people.

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Put that person into the equation and they're taking up a spot from somebody who would start arguement works both ways. Justify away.... Oh look it's a healer trying to jusitfy it one of the most frequent guilty parties...

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Except that just as I said, the fact that person can keep queueing and getting an instance pop that affects you means there is no one else looking to fill that spot. That is exactly what it means. If that person did not queue (since they very clearly do not want to do the whole instance), you would still be waiting. Period.

If you get one "Withdrawn" from duty and the next pop goes through, then yes, someone else was in queue. If you get 10 Withdrawn from Duty and then nothing, it means it was the same person and that they were the ONLY person who wanted to fill that role.

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Originally Posted by am0n

Except that just as I said, the fact that person can keep queueing and getting an instance pop that affects you means there is no one else looking to fill that spot. That is exactly what it means. If that person did not queue (since they very clearly do not want to do the whole instance), you would still be waiting. Period.

If you get one "Withdrawn" from duty and the next pop goes through, then yes, someone else was in queue. If you get 10 Withdrawn from Duty and then nothing, it means it was the same person and that they were the ONLY person who wanted to fill that role.

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Assuming they can manage queues properly, yes. But I believe that has been proven wrong with well, the log in queues we've had... since... forever (until now that they apparently removed them).

Regardless, the problem that persist are the idiots that keep requeueing only to reject it because it's not in progress, contineuously. Too many people are doing it.

So to solve this we force people to play something they dont want to?

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Regardless, the problem that persist are the idiots that keep requeueing only to reject it because it's not in progress, contineuously. Too many people are doing it.

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And I don't disagree. As I said above, what they do is pretty asinine.

My argument was with the fact that these people make your queues longer. Which they don't. They just make them more annoying (which may feel longer).

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

No. Just No.
If you select 'Join Party in Progress'... it because you want to HELP...not because you are impatient or greedy.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

Meh. Sorry, I really just want my King Behemoth drop.

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Right...you are therefore both impatient AND greedy...

Not what 'join in progress' was designed for.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

So to solve this we force people to play something they dont want to?

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Yes that is called farming and in every mmo. You force players to run content over and over to get the loot they want.

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Originally Posted by am0n

And I don't disagree. As I said above, what they do is pretty asinine.

My argument was with the fact that these people make your queues longer. Which they don't. They just make them more annoying (which may feel longer).

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I know, I agree with you too, that's what I meant to say. I also wanted to remind everyone that the problem is the people that keep doing it, and that SE can't properly manage queues. XD (a bit bored, or ...)

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

Right...you are therefore both impatient AND greedy...

Not what 'join in progress' was designed for.

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I think there should have never been an option to add or remove instances in progress from the que. This should be on by default and not be optional. When groups fail too much they usually just all drop out anyway (in my experience :P we're not talking science here >_>)

This only generates more issues than it can possibly fix. (look around you)

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Originally Posted by Kule

Easy fix for this..

Implement a stat tracking system behind the scenes that stores the number of times a person withdraws from a Duty.

Then use this information to put these people into the same pool for Duty Finder groups.

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So punishing! I call discrimination against innocent players that just want free points! >:(

I likeeee it!

Easy fix for this..

Implement a stat tracking system behind the scenes that stores the number of times a person withdraws from a Duty.

Then use this information to put these people into the same pool for Duty Finder groups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kule

Easy fix for this..

Implement a stat tracking system behind the scenes that stores the number of times a person withdraws from a Duty.

Then use this information to put these people into the same pool for Duty Finder groups.

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That is a sweet punishment, give them taste of their own medicine.

Wanna withdraw until you get the 2/3 progress? here play with more like you, an endless game of not progressing"

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Originally Posted by Doo

Yes that is called farming and in every mmo. You force players to run content over and over to get the loot they want.

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If that is how this game is suppose to be played then how to you explain the option to enter a duty that has already been in progress? If that option wasn't there then when someone get kicked from a party or disconnected because of connection issues the party has to disband and re-que starting at boss one when they might have been at boss 3.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

If that is how this game is suppose to be played then how to you explain the option to enter a duty that has already been in progress? If that option wasn't there then when someone get kicked from a party or disconnected because of connection issues the party has to disband and re-que starting at boss one when they might have been at boss 3.

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Simple, the option was meant to help others not for players to abuse it to farm easier.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Simple, the option was meant to help others not for players to abuse it to farm easier.

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If the devs haven't changed it then is it really abuse? They have not changed skipping CSs ever since it became popular. Its not seen as abuse anymore, its just something everyone has to do or be left out of the boss fights. Do I think its right? no, but its allowed and I just have to deal.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

I think there should have never been an option to add or remove instances in progress from the que. This should be on by default and not be optional. When groups fail too much they usually just all drop out anyway (in my experience :P we're not talking science here >_>)

This only generates more issues than it can possibly fix. (look around you)

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Most groups I join 'in progress' as of late haven't even gotten to the first boss before their healer leaves them...Usually NOT because anyone died (which would be shame on the healer in the first place on a trash mob pull), but because the party wasn't Speed Running/is New to the instance/ etc. Or people leave after the very first mistake/wipe on the 1st or 2nd boss rather than sticking it out...

I have only ever once had one group I joined before Demon Wall literally not have the DPS....even with me on WHM DDing, to kill it....and that was because they were insistant (well tank was) they they just burn the wall...instead of doing it the 'real' way.

Also, if/when I'm in a group where a tank (cause DD's almost never leave) rage-quits, we have always gotten a rep...in part because they DO look for later cues :P

So while maybe my experiences as both a party member and a rep aren't typical...I seriously doubt that most groups that get 'stranded' were unable to clear the content anyway and should therefore be forced to disband if one person leaves.

Not only that, but it would allow tanks and healers to be able to hold people hostage even more. 'Do it my way or I leave and you HAVE to finish without a Tank' 'Guys, if you don't pass all the gear to me, I'll leave and you'll have to recue'.

So I could point out that by NOT having the 'join in progress' feature, you would also have more issues.

As to making everyone cue, and get assigned either an 'in progress' or 'new' party randomly, and hiding what you get until you enter. It will not help. People will just leave when they see where they are/aren't. People do this already with the Duty Roulette.

Pharos Sirius is a prime example of that:
People leave as soon as they see the CS for it.
Others leave if they see a WHM healer over a SCH
WHM's leave a lot too.

Or again, considering I get a lot of 'YAY! party chats as I get in or comments 'I'm new is that okay? Last healer left cause it said I was new :/' Yeah...if you think not allowing the option to select new or in progress will help anything, you're assuming the same people who are trying to circumvent the system now won't find new ways to do it.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

If you hit withdraw you lose your roulette tomes for the day. If you let the timer expire you lose your roulette tomes for the day.

That should take care of it.

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How does this fix the CT issue? their is no roulette for CT, and lets see monday I do roulette coil 1-4, and a few CT and I am capped before tuesday, so i dont care about my roulette anymore. and if i did I do roulette then inprogress spam. And further, do I now need to withdraw from queue to use the bathroom or get a drink or take a phone call encase I miss a pop so I am not penalized? does not work

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Originally Posted by am0n

.

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So you're telling me any time I don't get the withdraw spam and my queues are < 30m but whenever I do get the spam and my queues are 45m+, it's just coincidence and there just happens to be a lack of tanks at the time (prime time even)? I laughed.

These tanks are filling in spots that other tanks (who don't mind a full run) potentially would have filled. Every time they hit withdraw, we all go back into limbo for a few seconds as DF remakes the groups. And those other tanks are probably ending up in other groups being formed because the group up in "front" is "full" at the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by am0n

Except that just as I said, the fact that person can keep queueing and getting an instance pop that affects you means there is no one else looking to fill that spot. That is exactly what it means. If that person did not queue (since they very clearly do not want to do the whole instance), you would still be waiting. Period.

If you get one "Withdrawn" from duty and the next pop goes through, then yes, someone else was in queue. If you get 10 Withdrawn from Duty and then nothing, it means it was the same person and that they were the ONLY person who wanted to fill that role.

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No it doesn't mean it's the same exact person What makes you think that especially when you get 3-4 withdraws within seconds of each other or before the df confirm screen evan opens or when you get multiple withdraws on the same confirm screen?.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

So you're telling me any time I don't get the withdraw spam and my queues are < 30m but whenever I do get the spam and my queues are 45m+, it's just coincidence and there just happens to be a lack of tanks at the time (prime time even)? I laughed.

These tanks are filling in spots that other tanks (who don't mind a full run) potentially would have filled. Every time they hit withdraw, we all go back into limbo for a few seconds as DF remakes the groups. And those other tanks are probably ending up in other groups being formed because the group up in "front" is "full" at the time.

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I guess we're just imagining it. I can get a 13-15 minute queue without withdrawal spam but with it ive gotten upwards of 40 minutes of withdrawal spam. If it's one person doing you'd figure they'd realize they could have been done with the run after 30-40 minutes spamming instead of 30-40 minutes of spamming plus 10-20 of doing the actual kb / archeron runs.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

If the devs haven't changed it then is it really abuse?

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Looks pretty abusive to me and happens to everyone I know that queues up for CT.

http://s28.postimg.org/gtw21w9n1/ffx...014_221345.jpg

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

How does this fix the CT issue?

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It doesn't. I wasn't referring to that.

I don't have time to expand on my original post so I guess I'll just delete it to avoid confusion.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Looks pretty abusive to me and happens to everyone I know that queues up for CT.

http://s28.postimg.org/gtw21w9n1/ffx...014_221345.jpg

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This has been going on since 2.0 and still no patch to change it... it may look to you as abuse but its just people deciding what they will not do. forcing them to not be able to withdraw will just make them leave party after the first CS.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

forcing them to not be able to withdraw will just make them leave party after the first CS.

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No they won't since there's a 30min lockout. Plus that's fine since they wouldn't be able to spam it again.

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Originally Posted by Doo

No they won't since there's a 30min lockout. Plus that's fine since they wouldn't be able to spam it again.

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Didn't stop me from leaving a party when I realized I had to do WP. Not a single care was given.

This is pretty much a non issue. If someone wants a run in progress they will get a run in progress making you wait longer regardless of what the penalty is. Blizzard and the same problem with tanks queuing up for dungeons then hitting cancel when a run in progress didn't pop up. So they stopped showing people if a run was in progress or not. This lead to more tanks leaving a zone right at the start because they didn't get what they wanted they rather take the 30 min cool down and do something else then do a whole dungeon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LoLo

This has been going on since 2.0 and still no patch to change it... it may look to you as abuse but its just people deciding what they will not do. forcing them to not be able to withdraw will just make them leave party after the first CS.

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People? Im confused. I thought we were claiming this was just one person.

i spam queue/leave with my tank just to troll you noobs. it's pretty fun ^^

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Originally Posted by am0n

And I don't disagree. As I said above, what they do is pretty asinine.

My argument was with the fact that these people make your queues longer. Which they don't. They just make them more annoying (which may feel longer).

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If you get unlucky and two tanks queue at the same time, and you get the same tank that is withdrawing first, the second tank is going to go immediately to the next party waiting in line no(which would be pretty fast in most scenarios sense you know there's several full groups waiting on a tank)? If this situation occurs, it could easily double your waiting time. But of course this is based on my assumption that while parties are currently waiting for everyone to click in to start a dungeon, that the DF will assign any new people queuing to a new group.