Titan Extreme mode - no melee allowed. Thx SE.

I'm confused.

If no melee is allowed, who casts melee limit break? That's where the damage is

Destroyed Titan Ex yesterday for some guildies that had not cleared it yet. Our comp for dps was DRG, MNK, MNK, BLM. Not sure what problem your having because this fight was cake with that makeup.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

MNKS > SMN > DRG > BARD > BLM when it comes to DPS if all are equally geared and skilled against Titan Ex. This is just a stupid group that don't count for much. Heck, fastest Titan Ex kill I ever had, pug one shotted had a MNK and DRG doing crazy dmg.

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Nope. Its people that know how to play their class and know the fight > people that don't.

I spent all weekend trying to parse myself in titan EX on BLM to keep up with drg/mnk. I can do it pretty reliably now. 220-ish dps sustained.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Nope. Its people that know how to play their class and know the fight > people that don't.

I spent all weekend trying to parse myself in titan EX on BLM to keep up with drg/mnk. I can do it pretty reliably now. 220-ish dps sustained.

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Soz, which part of "If all are equally geared and skilled against Titan Ex" did you miss?

Plus, 200-220 is da norm kind sir ^^. MNKs can crush it with mush less efforts than BLM in this fight. Same as Twintania, SMNs can't be touched. We have our fights, and other have theirs. I parse 375+ in Garuda Ex for example while Melee can only hope to dodge wicked wheel.

because your "greater than" chain is false.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

because your "greater than" chain is false.

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Nope it is not ^^. However, matters of your word against mine I guess unless I can somehow invite the same MNK, SMN & Bard I do Titan farm with to your group :).

Edit: Plus you are not making scene any more. What would be the correct chain be then? BLM > MNK/DRG/SMN in Titan Ex? cause that would absolute troll/lie/joke. Of course players whom are experinced will parse better than less experienced players. However, when they are all experienced, and skilled, my chain is not far from reality.

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Originally Posted by Vmage

if you're going to make a "THX SE" thread about X modes, at least pick the right one

garuda X is the fight to ignore all melee, and i'm not sure i'd ever want more than one on ifrit although i'm sure it works

...but titan? melee are great on that fight

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Exactly this, actually Titan X is one of the few fights melees are not gimped.

Funny, I thought the magic DPS were being avoided in Titan. Titan EX and Ifrit EX are actually fights that are melee friendly.

Umm, Dragoons are the hands-down best DPS class on Titan Ex in the game. The fight shits on Monks due to RNG GL3 drops from gaols and from a few phase transitions. Edit: And despite that, Monks should still perform better than range DPS on the fight.

BLMs have basically the worst DPS on Titan Ex of any class.

For Titan Ex, it's basically DRG > BRD=SMN=MNK(rng) > BLM.


For Ifrit, melee are completely fine in general. Ifrit is 70% a healer fight, and 20% a tank fight. The DPS mechanics on Ifrit are incredibly easy -- but again worst on BLMs.

For Ifrit, I'd say: DRG=SMN > BRD > MNK=BLM.

Monks are excellent on the nail phase, but poor on full fight DPS because Ifrit has so many mandatory GL3 drops, it's pretty nuts (edit: a Monk that's done Ifrit like 20 times could optimize it to a point where they exceed Bards, though, I would guess). SMNs and BRDs are also strong on nails due to multi-dotting.


Garuda is the only fight where there's any meaningful anti-melee mechanics of the Ex primals, and that fight is trivial if the melee are in any way aware of the timing on wicked wheel.

It honestly comes down to the individual player learning how to maximize their damage in a particular fight. For instance: the common practice vs. titan ex is to stack on his butt. So immediately, all dps run to stack on his butt. In reality, you have to be stacked on his butt for plumes, which don't happen immediately. So, as a caster, you can get two long casts off and tele to the dps before he does plumes. As a BLM, this puts you into your fire chain between plumes and the next landslide, giving you enough time to finish the chain with a swiftcast flare/convert fire > bliz III before he jumps, helping to push the next phase before he does a 2nd MB on the tank.

But if that caster had run straight to titans butt, he would not have had the time to get the long cast spells up before it was time to run around, thus throwing off their dps for the rest of that phase. Or they'd have to use swiftcast for T3 or F3 and wouldn't have it for flare.

You also want to be stacked for Tumults.

Just adding in my experiences.

Our MNK on Titan Ex does around 30% more damage than our ilvl 90 BLM does in total. The MNK doesn't drop GL3 either, how do I know? Because he happens to sit beside me while he plays. The only fight unfriendly to short ranged melee is Garuda EX with unpredictable kicks. Otherwise they should be outdpsing long range if they are played to their full potential.

I rolled an alt to play MNK from 1-50 because they are a challenge to play but have noticed how people are still narrow minded in stacking 1 or 2 dps classes (BRD/BLM) purely because out of THEIR experience they tend to screw up the least. So to the OP, blame your server community for taking the easy route but don't give up because short ranged melee are very satisfying to play when done right.

People are idiots. Melee (especially DRG) rock Titan Ex.

Idiots, I beat Titan EX before super bombs with 3 melees in group. As a MNK I was able to keep my Greased Lightning stacks the whole time. I DPS on the bomb if I ever need to avoid mechanics just so I can keep my GL stacks for the rest of the fight. As a melee I was pulling 318 DPS on Titan, over 30% more than any ranged DPS I've grouped up with.

I would have to see you get 318 on Titan to believe you. In my experience Dragoon is the best for this fight, great burst can make a mistake melee lb and doesn't get penalized as hard for being gaol'd.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

yeah on Ifirt I guess mages are more desireable specially because of Meteor LB, but I guess it has to be that way. Some fights mages are better and some not. Some fights melee are better some are not. Otherwise people would have any reason to level classes that wouldnt work on any kinda of fights. There must be a balance.

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I'm guessing you haven't actually done Ifrit EX. You can't use meteor on nails anymore due to a fire vulnerability killing a nail gives, in addition to a AOE pulse. If you limit break 4+ nails it will wipe your entire party. They purposely did this to prevent this tactic.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

I would have to see you get 318 on Titan to believe you. In my experience Dragoon is the best for this fight, great burst can make a mistake melee lb and doesn't get penalized as hard for being gaol'd.

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I don't see any other MNK's attacking the bombs just to keep GL stacks, while dodging the crisscross bombs for example. After killing the first Gaol, we always have time to deal 2-3 more skills to Titan before Upheaval knocks us back, it's when I usually drop DOT or two on him. After destroying one of the Superbombs, I would keep attacking one of the bombs nearby and just move out of range right before it explodes. Little things like that keep my DPS high, 318 doesn't include LB by the way. For reference, my highest DPS on Twintania was 353 before Divebombs (DPS after divebombs are unreliable/skewed becuase of Caster LB, x4 damage modifier and the break during DBs).

No that sounds really smart actually, I don't not believe you. It's just really impressive if true especially when most dps is in the 200-240 range for the fight.

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Originally Posted by Oblit

I don't see any other MNK's attacking the bombs just to keep GL stacks, while dodging the crisscross bombs for example.

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This is really smart. You should share your tactics with other monks. Props.

318 is pretty believable for a Monk that can optimize that well on Titan EX. I generally parse around 270-295 on my DRG depending on RNG.

Generally I expect BLMs to parse around 160-240, with Bards at 200-230 + 10 uncounted. Summoners are harder to assess. Going with ~130 parsed personal + 80 parsed pet +30 DPS from uncounted. But, I don't parse enough SMNs to get a good handle on what to expect.

BLMs should be consistently above 200, but more importantly their biggest asset to the fight is the sudden burst damage they can bring to adds and rocks. Both should melt with a competent BLM but I see so many fumble and not know their casting chances while in X bombs.

Not only do they parse badly against Titan, but it is actually difficult to parse even that and in reality I see lots of BLM fumble their cast times and sit at 140 for titan. I'm surprised I haven't seen any groups kicking out excess BLM

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

BLMs should be consistently above 200, but more importantly their biggest asset to the fight is the sudden burst damage they can bring to adds and rocks. Both should melt with a competent BLM but I see so many fumble and not know their casting chances while in X bombs.

Not only do they parse badly against Titan, but it is actually difficult to parse even that and in reality I see lots of BLM fumble their cast times and sit at 140 for titan. I'm surprised I haven't seen any groups kicking out excess BLM

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Yep, if it was not for that we would not even be wanted for Titan. Adds melt real fast with a nice double flare or even just crits. I also agree, more than one BLM in a Titan group should not happen, brining MNK/DRG + Bard + SMN + BLM to the fight is far superior.

I do like 280 on Titan EX with food and super potion of Str, as a drag so yeah I think Monks can just go way, way ahead than that, the 318 seem believable ^^

To the OP how about you stop crying about what group make up another person wants to form and just form your own group like most.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Nope it is not ^^. However, matters of your word against mine I guess unless I can somehow invite the same MNK, SMN & Bard I do Titan farm with to your group :).

Edit: Plus you are not making scene SENSE any more. What would be the correct chain be then? BLM > MNK/DRG/SMN in Titan Ex? cause that would absolute troll/lie/joke. Of course players whom are experinced EXPERIENCED will parse better than less experienced players. However, when they are all experienced, and skilled, my chain is not far from reality.

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It actually is and I'm inclined to say that you're pretty bad at BLM after reading some of your other posts. I easily do 260-300 DPS on Titan and parse similar to our MNK and SMN.

I'm so tired of people who play our class like garbage speaking for the rest of the community. Next time I do Titan Ex, I'll post our parses. The only one anyone parsed today was Ifrit.

http://i.imgur.com/eYTay3M.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hitome

It actually is and I'm inclined to say that you're pretty bad at BLM after reading some of your other posts. I easily do 260-300 DPS on Titan and parse similar to our MNK and SMN.

I'm so tired of people who play our class like garbage speaking for the rest of the community. Next time I do Titan Ex, I'll post our parses. The only one anyone parsed today was Ifrit.

http://i.imgur.com/eYTay3M.jpg

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Worst BLM ever! ^^

Edit: English is my 3rd language.

I'm honestly more interested in a blm perspective video of Titan if that is what you parse, because it's seriously impressive and I'd like to learn from it.

@ the OP: And to think this is why YP removed the elemental wheel, yet surprise surprise! Some people are dicks anyway and discriminate based on what job you're playing regardless.


Also getting very tired of seeing Party Finder groups demanding *only* people who've done <insert event> and with stringent iLv requirements, blatantly ignoring the fact that some people might have a lower iLv because they're using crafted items with good melds. How is anyone supposed to figure out these events and do them if people keep acting like this? Yeah FC's are all well and good but not everyone is a part of "teh ub3r l337 guildz" that have a tonne of members who are all well geared and can walk people through the fights.

My alt beat it with 2 melee dps just have to be smart so you don't put a plume on someone's striding area.

I killed it with : MNK, BRD, BRD, SMN. The monk was not that great but still (he was dying a lot).
Killed it again with SMN, BRD, BRD, BLM.
Nearly killed it with a DRG.

Melee are like godlike on this fight... just so cool for them. But, it seems most of you underestimate SMN's potential in this fight since a SMN can DOT Titan + the two adds (well... i guess if the dps is really big... the adds will melt fast so the dots won't do that much damage.)

SMN can burst the gaol well with bane + fester. And we are like... constantly attacking titan since our pet + dots keep hurting him while gaoled...

Anyway... melee are so fine(especially DRG) on this fight.

Garuda EM with no melees.....understandable thanks to Wicked Wheel.

Titan EM with no melees.....is up to the group's choice. if they feel its easier to coordinate with just range dps, then so be it. But let me tell u guyz honestly, melee dps delivers the highest dps ingame, they hit like a truck and you won't regret having them for titan EM. Dodging the mechanics in titan EM, that applies to all classes here, not only melee dps. If they think that melee dps is going to die a lot thanks to the AOE, that is no difference to the range dps because everyone in titan EM equally have to dodge them at the same time.

In summary, its not SE fault, just some groups preference.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

yeah on Ifirt I guess mages are more desireable specially because of Meteor LB, but I guess it has to be that way. Some fights mages are better and some not. Some fights melee are better some are not. Otherwise people would have any reason to level classes that wouldnt work on any kinda of fights. There must be a balance.

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Correction, you would not want a Meteor LB in Ifrit Extreme LMAO. Wipes the whole party if you cast that.

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Originally Posted by Hitome

It actually is and I'm inclined to say that you're pretty bad at BLM after reading some of your other posts. I easily do 260-300 DPS on Titan and parse similar to our MNK and SMN.

I'm so tired of people who play our class like garbage speaking for the rest of the community. Next time I do Titan Ex, I'll post our parses. The only one anyone parsed today was Ifrit.

http://i.imgur.com/eYTay3M.jpg

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I wish I could just PM but meh SE forums. So I will just post it here:

Ifrit EM, I died twice in this kill yet still managed better DPS than you :).

http://i.imgur.com/Vx8MCNX.png

For shit and giggles I tried to do better and was able to pull 360 DPS same fight, same group but it was not a kill so ain't worth posting.

Whatever DPS you post, I promise I will crush it, you pick the boss and I will go pug it (you are not worth my coil group time after all)^^. kthxbye.

P.S.

Next time show a little bit of respect instead of attacking people and pretending to be anything special.

So let me get this straight: you post a screenshot with an alleged Ifrit Ex kill and your DPS next to it with no discernible background besides some city. Tell you what. There are so many errors in your post that I'm just going to let this slide.

You parse has you doing 13k less damage to Ifrit than I did because you died twice. You assure me, though, that you are a better BLM...yet how does a better BLM die twice on Ifrit Ex compared to a BLM who does 13k more overall damage than you without dying once? My guess is that you are still a terrible BLM.

I also notice you have two BRDs in your party. Interesting thing, that. Do you know why BRDs are so useful to BLMs? I won't insult your intelligence by stating why because you hopefully aren't stupid enough to not know why. Mitsukai's main is a PLD. He did not sing any songs the entire fight.

So we have you with two BRDs, who most likely used foe requiem many times throughout the fight (plus soul voice during two instances), doing 13k less damage than myself without a BRD singing foe requiem.

Let's review the facts:

1) You claim that BLM damage is poor on movement intensive fights like Titan and Ifrit yet provide evidence, along with mine, to contradict your own statement.

2) You claim to be a better BLM than myself yet do 13k less damage in the same fight because you died twice. You know how much a dead DPS does in terms of damage, right?

3) You have issues pulling the same numbers on Titan. My guess, from your previous 'pro-tip' post, is that your flare on gaols isn't really helping you much, is it? :)

4) In the 'pro-tip' post, you didn't even know manawall worked on landslide or manaward on bombs/geocrush when Titan HM has the same mechanics and has been out much longer. How professional can you be if you do not understand the class you play?

For the love of god: you don't even have eye for an eye on your BLM.

I think I'd rather take a BLM who doesn't die at all on Ifrit, knows the defensive abilities that the job has access to, has all the appropriate cross class abilities, and does more overall damage than one with inflated DPS values due to foe requiem.

So you said name a fight, did you not? How about you post your next Titan Ex kill since you seem to have so much trouble with it as a BLM. I'll post mine as well. We'll see what happens in the end, won't we?

You could call this a checkmate of sorts: if you post a parse with you doing respectable DPS on Titan Ex, you will contradict every point you've made in this thread. If you post a parse with you doing poor DPS while I post a parse with high DPS, your position as the less skilled BLM will be set in stone. What will you do? (=^・^=)

As for your last comment, there is no need to show respect to people who do not understand the job they are playing and spew nonsense on forums.

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Originally Posted by Hitome

Snip.

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Hitomi,

If Foe was used in the fight at all, even for 1 second I would have said so and mentioned it. No Foe was used, take it or leave it won't change the fact that I just posted higher DPS. It is a game, no reason to lie about it.

As for the rest of your points I honestly don't know where did you get that I'm struggling with Titan when I assure you that I have killed him with PUGs more than I can count now, it is after all a fun fight even when it offers me nothing. It seems this is turning to personal attack of some sort, not worth getting banned off the forums for it.


P.S.

It is competent MNKs & SMNs whom I can't beat in Titan and Ifirt, not pugs or people at your level I assure you.

P.S 2

Stop lying please, I always knew about Manawall and Landslides, I did not know about Bombs and Plumes cause I never bothered testing it. Why would I? I can dodge.

No reason to continue the hatred and personal attacks, I won't bite any longer and will just post more DPS shots later without continuing this pointless conversation with you. Would have been much easier if we were on the same server, but we are not.

GL & HF.

So you have two BRDs who didn't foe requiem the entire fight? Did they just sit at max MP the entire time doing nothing? Yeah..I'm pretty sure requiem was on and I'm also pretty sure you wouldn't notice. You strike me as the type of person who tunnel visions bosses without regard to raid mechanics at all. You don't have eye so you can't provide support to your tanks and my guess is you probably don't use virus at all either.

You don't know where "I'm struggling with Titan" comes from, from you? Here, let me remind you:

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

In my humble opinion, Titan EM is an absolute nightmare for Black Mages. As a DD you are expected to deliver good amount of DPS.

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Would you like to contradict yourself anymore or are you just about done?

It's not a personal attack. You, and quite a few other people in this thread, have stated that BLM are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to Titan Ex which just isn't true. You decided to defend your stance. I provided evidence and discredited your stance. See how this works?

You said English wasn't your first language so let's start with the basics.

Do you understand how DPS works? It's called damage per second. If a BLM is currently not casting anything on a boss fight and a DoT is not on the boss, they are not doing any DPS. This is common amongst casters in other MMOs which is why people often disregard DPS all together and, instead, focus on overall damage.

So not only did I do 13k more damage to you (again, something you've neglected), but I also didn't die twice. You claim to be a better BLM but the facts are right there for you: I do more overall damage, didn't die once during the same fight (where you died twice), and have all my cross class abilities.

All your DPS reading tells me is that you had thunder on the boss the entire time which, funny enough, probably resulted in your deaths. Do you understand how poor DPS is as a measurement for damage dealing casters with 1 DoT? Probably not.

Overall damage tells the bigger picture. As you can see, the SMN had lower DPS than I did but still did more overall damage than both myself and the MNK. Would you say SMN is worthless as well? No, because he did the most overall damage. His actual DPS is 339 with his pet. Not surprising because the pet attacks non-stop and SMN DoTs are on the boss constantly (as well as multiple nails on that phase).

There's also the fact that you died twice. People at my level don't die twice on Ifrit. So...where does that place you? See post #65.

I look forward to your Titan parses.

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Originally Posted by Hitome

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Yeah full of assumptions about my play style and what I do and not do. Sigh, I don't even understand how did the sentence you quoted translated to "I'm bad, I suck, I eat plumes and I'm struggling with titan". If this is not a post full of hatred and personal attacks I don't know what is. You know nothing about me or how I play or run my own Coil group. You don't even know how I set up my UI. This is why I said no respect, you are right and I'm wrong by default, cause? reasons.

I said Bards did not use Foe at all I know that for sure, not something I missed or assumed, the Foe icon is clear as day and I have the boss focus targeted the whole time, so wither I'm attacking nails or Ifirt I'm able to see what debuffs they got on them.

As for my deaths, so I died, end of the world. I suck, you are better, it is not like I farmed Titan, and Ifrit so many times without a single death. I was being honest about what I posted. Once more it is a game, no reason to lie or alter facts.

This is my last post you may pick another target to hate on and attack. You can't even have a civil conversation anymore, must hate, harass and attack. Assume the opposition is wrong, make ignorant imaginary comments about them and move from there.

So much BLM epeening.

At least there's evidence that BLMs can perform well on Titan EM. Would like to see a detailed parse though; I'm guessing ~5 dps is coming from bomb aoe damage during add phase, or maybe not.

I ran titan ex last night on blm and out performed everyone in the pt, but just barely. It was mostly due to double flare spam on the adds, as prior to that phase i was 3rd in the dps race.

Regardless of the epeen sword fight that this thread has turned into, BLM has been proven to be a viable class in all 3 extreme fights. So yea, Neo, your greater than chain is false. I'd say its:

Smart players of any job > DRG > SMN > MNK > bad bard > bad blm

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I'm missing the point of this thread.

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K we'll walk through it slowly. You stated, further back in this thread, that:

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

MNKS > SMN > DRG > BARD > BLM when it comes to DPS if all are equally geared and skilled against Titan Ex. This is just a stupid group that don't count for much. Heck, fastest Titan Ex kill I ever had, pug one shotted had a MNK and DRG doing crazy dmg.

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Several people have told you that you're pretty much wrong yet you stated this opinion of yours is absolute fact. If it's absolute fact for you and one of the other BLMs in the community is doing just fine on Titan contrary to what you say, then you're bringing your own personal play style into this because this is what you've observed on your encounters.

I'm not sure how else you want me to explain it to you.