Garuda Extreme mode - no melee allowed. Thx SE.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

The better question is why should I add stress to my tanks and healers when I could be ranged and make the entire fight go smoother?

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This...

Personally if I'm making a party for a long, annoying fight like Garuda I'd rather do it in a "safe" way.

Edit: Melee's chance to shine in that fight?

That is pretty much how we do HM... OT grabs red sister (which in EM is always Suparna), DPS deals with green sister alone. I always thought Chirada hits way too weak to make that fight fun for off-tanking, makes a lot of sense if the intended design is not having a tank take her. Since now, the DPS who would previously just stand casting now have something to do.

I want to try it... hopefully I can find some people open to new ideas.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

This.....

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As a tank that has so much to worry about in this fight and after so many wipes, I prefer the ranged method. To many times have I had Melee DPS die to wheels when moves are on a pretty set rotation (if DPS is good).

I just did Garuda Ex for the first time today and as a drg I got highest damage and didn't even see an issue of having dodge wicked wheel. Maybe my FC uses a different strategy from the rest of you guys, but I was never even close to dying during twins.

Lol Please look forward to it!

Yes it's easier to do it with ranged but "no melee allowed"? Already done it with 2 (and one time 3 melees). It's been said a few pages back, MT=Suparna and Garuda, OT=Chirada. After Chirada dies OT and MT swap Suparna and Spiny plume.

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Originally Posted by Narcissus

People don't like to adjust, they like to complain.

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took the words right out of my mouth

Please nerf Bards! and all range classes!

We do it with 2-3 melees all the time, if your melees have trouble in this fight they are doing it wrong.
Ranged are no match for a melee that knows what he's doing.
Garuda doesn't even make it into the second storm-add phase.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I have done it both ways. With all ranged, and with 1 or 2 melee. Its definitely slower with melee vs taking all ranged. Also less prone to dps deaths and wipes.

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you just did point the heart of the trouble... the game as it is try to balance melee vs range...but instead to make melee have the most output and give us fight like this... the ranged dps can still deal far more damage than melee, why? because of the mechanic... ranged talk of stop cast when they need to avoid a skill... true, but some jobs like the monk, when they need to move for more of 4-5 second are screw. because they will need a total of 9 action (4 with perfect balance) for be back to full dps... when for a black mage it take... 1 action. more important, exept bard for them ballad... no caster DD have any mana trouble... if they play well they never run out of mp. when it happend often for monk and dragoon. you gonna say, yeah but bard have tp song... go find a bard that will switch from mp to tp song?

actually the game balance between melee vs range is soo much screw... that bring only 1 dps or no dps have become common. i have read recently (thanks reinhart) that yoshida think that the class the most balanced is the black mage... i was shocked and really angry by this statement. Black Mage, by a lot of it mechanic is by far, the jobs the most simple at play... you never have a trouble of mp (ice umbral or the skill that drain hp for get mp) it have the best burst of the game by really far (thunder 3 instant it's one of the most powerfull capacity of the game) indeed it rely on the proc and have little armor... but serioulsy all range have easy life in comparaison of the melee.

we need to make our skill in the corect order, we need to get position, we need to avoid all the melee capacity of the boss and finally we need to be close of the boss.... if we are away a bit....we don't deal damage. and i don't talk of all the self buff we must get for be able to deal decent damage that often run out when we need to move.

i understand why people act like this...it's natural, why bring a class that can screw the fight if not well played... worst that can deal less damage than other if you don't master it?

but you know...all of this was said while the beta...did they listen? no.... will they listen now? i seriously hope it... or i predict a really really dark futur for any melee jobs.

ps: indeed it's possible to do it with melee, but be honest, actually it's mandatory to bring max 1 melee dps for the limit mostly... exept if you play with your static... if you can decide what you will bring... most of the time mlee will come in last in your choice.

i did forget, SE can make the game working with many different strategy... it will be the player that decide which one is the most used... because it's easy and efficient. whatever SE do it will alwas the player that decide. even if it's wrong to act like this...

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Originally Posted by BlackPriest

Cool deal. I do more dmg than brd and on par with blm so your point again? Also wheel is after friction. See friction gtfo. win. Its not a hard fight. Stop trying to make everything easier by saying ranged is superior. Its not.

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On par with BLM if you exclude LB damage. We're easily ahead if you count that ;)

Monk is awesome in Garuda Ex. For the part where people generally think melee sucks, I usually help Chirada (we don't do the ranged on Suprana thing, all focus that add to get rid of double wicked wheels), Shoulder Tackle across the centre to Suprana, when she is dead, beat on Garuda until jump then casually stroll over to the spiny bubble.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you just did point the heart of the trouble... the game as it is try to balance melee vs range...but instead to make melee have the most output and give us fight like this... the ranged dps can still deal far more damage than melee, why? because of the mechanic...

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I don't think I've been beat by a ranged class in any fight (as drg) since 2.1 or been able to any melee as blm for that matter. A good drg has more controlled burst damage than blm, believe it or not. Sure, if a blm procs thundercloud 3 times in 10 seconds it's going to have great damage, but that is beyond unlikely.

Also, as you pointed out, melee need to move around a bit during almost every fight. Given that, it is nearly impossible to run out of TP during a normal rotation as for every 2.5 seconds you aren't on the boss, you effectively gained 60 tp. Even for long sustained damage phases like Twintania pre-snakes, assuming you don't get put in conflag to maximize the amount of tp expended, you will still be in good shape if you use your invigorate correctly.

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Originally Posted by Lecreuset

Yes it's easier to do it with ranged but "no melee allowed"? Already done it with 2 (and one time 3 melees). It's been said a few pages back, MT=Suparna and Garuda, OT=Chirada. After Chirada dies OT and MT swap Suparna and Spiny plume.



took the words right out of my mouth

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If the melee has enough gear/hp, popping a cd or 2 such as foresight and keen flurry will bring my monk down to around 300 hp from 4400-4600 (2700ish if I successfully parry) depending on my food. There is no real reason to make the OT take Suparna off the MT as she will never wicked wheel after the first one each time she spawns, you only have to survive the one Garuda pops out after Chirada dies. which is a few seconds after Suparna casts friction.

As for spiny plume, we just let that roll on who ever it wants and have the OT pull it at 2 stacks + dps it down a bit before switching to dmg'ing Garuda

I have mixed feelings about Garuda EX. I main Monk, and I consider WW completely broken. Sure, it's relatively simple to dodge it if you pay attention, but the fact the entire fight Is a faceroll for everyone else but the tanks and meelee is redundant. I'm sorry, it should be equally difficult for everyone involved. If anything, at least make it so WW does not one shot the majority of meelee. For reference, I'm ilvl84 and I get one shooted by it unless I have both fists of earth and stoneskin up, I've only seen a dragoon with 5k health survive WW, and I'm not sure if he had stoneskin on him or not.

Equally frustrating is the amount of off tanks that decide to pull suprana first over chirada. Dodging WW isn't nearly as tidious and frustrating if the off tank pulls chirada 1st, and it becomes even easier on everyone involved if the meelee always lb one of the sisters down (to kill fast enough so main tank isn't hit by 2x WW. I honestly like the fight, I just hate how biased it makes the community toward meelee because of poor design choices on the part of the developers.

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Originally Posted by IceWing

If the melee has enough gear/hp, popping a cd or 2 such as foresight and keen flurry will bring my monk down to around 300 hp from 4400-4600 (2700ish if I successfully parry) depending on my food. There is no real reason to make the OT take Suparna off the MT as she will never wicked wheel after the first one each time she spawns, you only have to survive the one Garuda pops out after Chirada dies. which is a few seconds after Suparna casts friction.

As for spiny plume, we just let that roll on who ever it wants and have the OT pull it at 2 stacks + dps it down a bit before switching to dmg'ing Garuda

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uhh yeah there's more than one way to do it.. Our OT takes suparna off the MT to take some pressure off of him

OT tank chirada, MT tank suparna and Garuda

Chirada die - OT provoke suparna.

The big problem can be that spiny has aggro from MT, then OT must provoke spiny and melee may wait to suparna die soon to go to kill Garuda.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I blame how unfriendly the harder contents are with Melee DD class/Jobs.

Just look at all those Massive Melee Range AoE Heavy Damaging skills these higher difficult bosses spam constantly.

You can't even get close to perform a proper amount of damage before another Massive AoE appears to force you to run away from the boss again.

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Except this isn't the real problem, as xi progressed "healers" cried more and more about having to "heal", finally SE gave in and tweaked them into soloists, don't know why anyone bothers to play healers when they really don't "want to heal".

When I play a heal job I "focus" on healing.

I have seen many examples of this mentality migrating into xiv.

DD's are normally the squishiest party members around, and quickly become MP sponges, ill let you do the math from here.

Couldn't tell you how many times I have had to DPS tank some fate boss while 2 healers stand around spamming some nuke ability while watching me die, then run away to leash and just let the sob get full HP back.

My GF has died repeatedly in dungeons to hear repeatedly "fail tank", while receiving practically no heals at all.

From the experiences of xi, healers in this game should have been given "no" abilities outside of heals and buffs, and their meelee abilities shouldn't bother to exist.

If you wont heal, don't play a healer.

And yes I haven't done this fight yet, doesn't matter facts are facts.

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Originally Posted by BlackPriest

Cool deal. I do more dmg than brd and on par with blm so your point again? Also wheel is after friction. See friction gtfo. win. Its not a hard fight. Stop trying to make everything easier by saying ranged is superior. Its not.

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This game is all pattern based.

You know what? I honestly think 90% of this game's population couldn't beat Mega Man 1 on the NES. There are 6 year old kids who get this game's challenge more than a chunk of the players here.