T2 Enrage problem

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Originally Posted by Doo

Passing rot isn't a fun mechanic anyways.

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Welp, as a Bard, I find it fun.

Checking for High Voltage, checking timers of rots, dodging lasers and Ballast. Ohhhh~ http://i.imgur.com/BNsKlFw.gif

a tank that have alt healer class with titan weapon completely doable

did it myself without even relic weapon

It was likely a mistake, since the ADS enrage timer in turn 1 is an automatic wipe, not sure why the enrage from a stronger ads would be less severe

Just find good players, avoid slackers....

Takes more time to wait on enrage than just clearing it the normal way!

They should make Turn 2 and Turn 4 enrage an automatic wipe.

I totally disagree with the nerf. It will only promote elitism.

It's faster to do T2 doing the normal method...

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

It's faster to do T2 doing the normal method...

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This, my group would have to wait an extra 5-6 mins just so we could reach enrage timer. Would rather have people learn how to deal with the fight so when things get more complicated than just passing rot...there will be more competent people out there to do it with.

Turn 2 ADS not killing people when it enrages is an oversight SE should fix it. An enrage is just that it should instantly wipe your party when it happens.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Passing rot isn't a fun mechanic anyways.

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you don't have to do the content if it isn't fun anyways

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

It's faster to do T2 doing the normal method...

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However, if you wipe even once for whatever reason (tank or healer 90k and that's it, or just a normal human error), then it's going to take longer.

Why all threads about T2 enrage turns into a pool of elitism, and a lot of people thinking they know better than the devs?

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

First of I just want to say I don't have any experience in Turn 2. I just started doing Coil last week and have cleared Turn 1.

The problem with Turn 2 Enrage method is that: for every 8 DD, 6 Healers clearing T2, there are only 2 Tanks clearing it. 1:4, 1:3, 1:7

50% of tanks that usually have a party slot don't have one anymore because of this method. Assuming you aren't in a static party.

This reason alone is why it should be fixed. Make it require two tanks. I could care less about being the only tank in the party and being able to not have any loot competition. I'd rather be able to progress.

Does anyone agree?

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Been thinging the same thing, theres an issue of tanks BUT the main thing is the healer shortages due to this method
(&/Or the restrictions put in place for Coil When they could make it more like CT)

The Fact that people are resorting to using this method isnt PROOF in anyway it beens patching, It is however PROOF that Allagan Rot is to hard for most people To Do, So shouldnt of been put in, in the first place!

<-- i know Rot, It is easy if your any other class than Bard or healer or tank. I'm bard so its harder as i have to silence & look for Rot + high voltage which is very unfair since lazy Tanks & monks wont silence it & BLM/SUM/DRG dont have any other work to do..... & they mess it up the most.

**Every party i help teach just cant understand theres a buff on the right with a timer to look for Even tho you explain it literlly 10 times+ Show them pictures & tell them they have it. It really does make u wonder If they are blind.

**Also another Issue/bit of evidance thats it shouldnt of been put in Is the Tanks OR Off Tank Generally + Melee close range classes Almost Always auto pass it to fast therefore u need a majority ranged set up, which goes against what Yoshi "Claims" all content is set up to do.
(Then again he did Blantenly LIE about PVP changes affecting PVE & goobbue mounts solely for Legacy players [doesnt matter if u change a freckle or a hair its still a Goobbue mount] & Many other things in another post u can search for. So i suppose its not suprising for us all if this was ment as a ranged only fight)

Personally i'd like Allagan Rot to stay & enrage mode be a wipe. BUT have it so you can do the Sector VII ADS & the boss does not get the Haste Buff, Since you need to deal with Allagan Rot to beat that ADS Anyway, it would still keep a decent balance IF people wanted to do it at the boss or so the boss doesnt do it.

They should fix it because it's broken. The fight was not intended to be done that way. Doing it legit is way harder and it's how everyone should do it. But that's just my opinion, take it or leave it, like it or hate it, I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Turn 2 ADS not killing people when it enrages is an oversight SE should fix it. An enrage is just that it should instantly wipe your party when it happens.

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Well i agree with this BUT there are 2 types of Enrage, Hard and Soft Enrage.
Hard Enrage is like Twintania, you Reach the Enrage byebye.
Soft Enrage is like Titan HM after Hard where he adds 1 Stomp after each rotation, And you face the Enrage During the last 1/3 of the Fight.

ADS should have a Hard Enrage,so i totally agree with you. Whats the point Having a clock ticking when it doesnt hurt at all when it runs out, it even helps you -.-

But also, as much as i want SE to fix this, i totally understand the People using this Method to get at least 1 easy loot per week. If i wouldnt have a static for coil and have to do it with PUG´s, i´d be happy with this method too. For expereinced Players it´s just dumb to wait for the Timer, when you reach ADS when its ticking 8 or so and wait like forever. Much faster to do it normal and not even harder^^

Ps: sorry for my poor English, not my Native language^^

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The fight was not intended to be done that way.

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Why not? It's not like ADS has to be glitched to do this.

It's been mentioned multiple times but if the rage was supposed to kill us, it would. As it turns out it's manageable damage. Very similar to the Dreadnought rage in T4, which is clearly working as intended.

I may be wrong and they may adjust this down the track, but they've had several opportunities to do it already, and have taken none of them. It would have been trivial to bump up the rage damage in one of the various maintenance's we've had since the 2.1 release.

And yeah as above:
- Static and FC groups: normal mode
- PUG's that I don't trust: more inclined to go with enrage mode

As a BRD T2 is supremely annoying, it's like a little holiday doing it on rage mode ;)

ask for coil lockout removal instead of a mechanic that SE implemented it for a purpose

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Turn 2 ADS not killing people when it enrages is an oversight SE should fix it. An enrage is just that it should instantly wipe your party when it happens.

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No.

A Hard Enrage wipes your party immediately. A Soft Enrage does not - it, in general, creates a situation where either your party will be overwhelmed by successive waves of adds/tactics, or your healers' mana bars will be expended and they will no longer be able to heal through the damage.

SE knows exactly how to create a Hard Enrage, and they would do that here if that was their intent. If they wanted this to be a Hard Enrage, it would be a Hard Enrage. SE's developers are not stupid. They know exactly how to create a Hard Enrage - and have done so in several other encounters. There is no reason to believe that their brains suddenly fell out of their heads while designing Turn 2 and they somehow "forgot" how to make a Hard Enrage (especially considering that Twintania does have a Hard Enrage, and Turn 4 does not).

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

cut

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No they didn't expect like every single coil group on T2 in party finder to be running rage mode only T2, with 3 healers 1 tank 4 dps. It obviously makes the fight easier for and doing it in an unintended fashion. People actually have to sit around and wait for the boss to enrage for 7 to 8 min because they can't deal with the normal fight mechanics.

This needs to be addressed people are beating the fight in an unintended fashion. They should do the fight in the way it was intended to be done. If they can't beat it that way they shouldn't collect loot.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

No they didn't expect like every single coil group on T2 in party finder to be running rage mode only T2, with 3 healers 1 tank 4 dps. It obviously makes the fight easier for and doing it in an unintended fashion. People actually have to sit around and wait for the boss to enrage for 7 to 8 min because they can't deal with the normal fight mechanics.

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But that, quite frankly, isn't the point. If they intended for the Enrage to immediately kill parties, it absolutely would. To suggest that SE is somehow stupid, and "forgot" to make the Enrage a Hard Enrage is silly as all hell.

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This needs to be addressed people are beating the fight in an unintended fashion. They should do the fight in the way it was intended to be done. If they can't beat it that way they shouldn't collect loot.

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Players beat encounters in an unintended fashion all the damn time. Unless they're specifically glitching out an encounter (Examples include: Glitching Twintania so she stops doing anything at all, having the tank jump off Titan's platform to make the boss stop reacting to anything, using the tree in AK to make sure the adds can't reach the healer and thus are no longer an issue), it's not cheating. It's also not wrong - it's simply coming up with an outside-the-box solution to a puzzle (which is all encounters are in the first place). And, quite literally, if ADS continued to use all mechanics during his Soft Enrage, it would be a Hard Enrage, because it would be impossible to heal through. I refuse to believe that SE is so stupid and clueless that they would just "forget" to give a fight a Hard Enrage.

And I still don't understand why so many people are so obsessed with things other people are doing instead of worrying about their own damn selves.

I am betting they will patch it in a future patch due to how many people are doing it this way and not the normal way.

OP doesn't have geared alt classes.

He is a sad panda.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I am betting they will patch it in a future patch due to how many people are doing it this way and not the normal way.

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I'm just waiting for an official response, I think wether they fix it or not; Either response will open a crapload of very amusing blind rage.

I do not think it's working as intended, but who cares? Especially so if your group is clearing it consistently.

My fc has two groups running coils... we clear turn 1-2 with ease each week with 2 tanks

SE is known for their "we didnt think people would do this" oversights. Remember how they didnt think (nor intend) that people use 2 plds and rotate cooldowns and hallowed ground to survive past the point they intended for wipes? (rapesnake 4 stacks?). Things we as players find obvious, sometimes SE doesnt.

Btw, the difference between turn 4 and turn 2 timers is that in turn 4, while you are getting zapped, you are still being attacked by everything still alive. It would make more sense to have this type of enrage (that only punishes, not kills) if ADS still functioned normally. And ADS in turn 1 is a bomb, why wouldnt the stronger turn 2 version be a bomb as well?

The entire encounter is coded for you to decide the strengths and weaknesses by picking which minibosses to kill, why would they go through the trouble if just sitting and waiting for it to stop using skills was an intended method? Hilarious how people's brains work to try and justify shady tactics to themselves. If this is fixed, it most def is not a nerf, and how is requiring people to do battles in the intended methods promoting elitism?

The normal way isnt even hard. Have we really dropped so low in the MMO community that counting to 10 and walking 5 steps is too hard and needs to be cheated? you dont even have to count, the game even does that for you

I feel this problem is more with the way coil is locked out rather than it being the method people are using to finish turn 2. Titan HM is a single tank fight also and no one cares. I say kill the lock out and do a loot lockout similar to CT.

Like I said before If they patch this then they better patch turn 3 and 4 since you all feel it's unfair. No speed runs either.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Like I said before If they patch this then they better patch turn 3 and 4 since you all feel it's unfair. No speed runs either.

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turn 3 is obviously incomplete.. and no one waits out the timer in turn 4 to help them kill the mobs easily. not the same at all.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

turn 3 is obviously incomplete.. and no one waits out the timer in turn 4 to help them kill the mobs easily. not the same at all.

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Way to turn the blind eye people skip the adds during 3 I don't care if it's not complete or is, patch it.
And you can bypass the enrage of 4

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Way to turn the blind eye people skip the adds during 3 I don't care if it's not complete or is, patch it.
And you can bypass the enrage of 4

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fine, patch it. its not like turn 3 has any road blocks people use dirty tricks to bypass. And enrage of turn 4 is supposed to punish you, by dealing AE damage on top of all abilities any remaining mobs have left. it would be different if everything stopped moving and using attacks. Also, no one lives through turn 4 very long, and it surely doesnt help anyone by making the fight easier or bypassing any mechanics

Can none of you read? Barely anyone has addressed the issue that this thread is for.

At the moment, mostly all people doing T2 on Party Finder is using Enrage method. For every 90 Healers that clear, only 30 Tanks are clearing.

This issue is why I started this thread. Not so all you illiterates can argue about whether the Enrage strategy was intended or not.

EDit: One person mentioned removing lockout. That would surely work, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

Can none of you read? Barely anyone has addressed the issue that this thread is for.

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Because it's a non-issue. The situation only presents itself if every group uses the enrage method, and even then all it requires is for someone in your group to switch to healer for one turn. Not necessarily one of the tanks, either.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Because it's a non-issue. The situation only presents itself if every group uses the enrage method, and even then all it requires is for someone in your group to switch to healer for one turn. Not necessarily one of the tanks, either.

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95% of Party Finder Turn 2 groups are 1 Tank, 3 Healers, 4 DD. That is a fact. The situation has presented itself I would say.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

95% of Party Finder Turn 2 groups are 1 Tank, 3 Healers, 4 DD. That is a fact. The situation has presented itself I would say.

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Statistics, how do they work?

I can make up numbers, too! 95% of parties using the enrage strat with one tank are requiring a very, very geared tank to take the stacks up high enough and survive! See what I did there? I mean....

I don't know why you would only take one tank. I've always taken two. It makes things a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

If you don't understand why party finder groups does not equate to all groups, then I don't know how else to help you. There is most definitely not 3 healers clearing turn 2 for every tank.

As for it being a non-issue: Join or form a static. Switch to dps or healer for one turn and join one of those party finder groups. Create your own party finder group set up how you want it to be set up. It's not hard.

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I've also seen exceptionally geared groups clear it with 2 healers. But the entire strat is a gear check - if your healers aren't geared enough, or you have undergeared DPS, it doesn't work. Gear should, however, be able to change how you complete an encounter, so I don't really see the issue.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

95% of Party Finder Turn 2 groups are 1 Tank, 3 Healers, 4 DD. That is a fact. The situation has presented itself I would say.

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If you don't understand why party finder groups does not equate to all groups, then I don't know how else to help you. There is most definitely not 3 healers clearing turn 2 for every tank.

As for it being a non-issue: Join or form a static. Switch to dps or healer for one turn and join one of those party finder groups. Create your own party finder group set up how you want it to be set up. It's not hard.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Statistics, how do they work?

I can make up numbers, too! 95% of parties using the enrage strat with one tank are requiring a very, very geared tank to take the stacks up high enough and survive! See what I did there? I mean....

I don't know why you would only take one tank. I've always taken two. It makes things a lot easier.

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Hi. There is no tanking once ADS is in Enrage mode. Thanks for sharing.

My argument only applies to Party Finder.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

First of I just want to say I don't have any experience in Turn 2. I just started doing Coil last week and have cleared Turn 1.

The problem with Turn 2 Enrage method is that: for every 8 DD, 6 Healers clearing T2, there are only 2 Tanks clearing it. 1:4, 1:3, 1:7

50% of tanks that usually have a party slot don't have one anymore because of this method. Assuming you aren't in a static party.

This reason alone is why it should be fixed. Make it require two tanks. I could care less about being the only tank in the party and being able to not have any loot competition. I'd rather be able to progress.

Does anyone agree?

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Level a DD or Healing job.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

Hi. There is no tanking once ADS is in Enrage mode. Thanks for sharing.

My argument only applies to Party Finder.

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But there is tanking for all of the nodes you kill prior, as well as for the first 1-2 minutes before he enrages. You're going to pick up 5-6 stacks before then, and if your tank isn't exceptionally geared, your healers absolute gods, or really, really lucky, he's probably going to die if ADS decides to do one of his awesome cheap double-hits. And then with ADS zooming around the room murdering people, even if he goes into enrage right then, it's quite likely that people are going to die trying to get to the stack point (since they tend to scatter as he zoomes around on a murder spree).

Also, you're ignoring the main gist of my point in response to you: You have absolutely no way of knowing the actual statistics of party comp being put together in the party finder. What's more, it is none of your business if groups choose to take one tank, two tanks, or 8 tanks. Just like it is none of your business if groups choose to take one WHM and one SCH, or 4 WHM and 3 SCH. If it were your business, you'd have access to the internal information that would provide accurate statistics on the subject, instead of numbers you just pulled out of your backside.

so use the normal strat like everyone who isnt a badie