Punishing the wrong people.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

That would be horrible. TANK : this party sucks. Imma not use flash and get us kiled so I can leave. Wipe. Wipe. Wipe. See ya later! Troll central.

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this,,, yesterday healer in df titan hm sulked cause some1 said its her fault we died cause she wouldnt heal after tulmor so the next two runs she didnt heal at all then goes ur gonna blame me for ur deaths now aswel? i mean seriously ._.'''''' kinda obvious what the response was lol

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The whole point of the timer is to discourage people from ragequiting just because the party sucks.

It's supposed to make you stick with it, learn to work together and fix your mistakes.

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Damned if its not working too. Leveled my DRG through AV exclusively recently 47 right through 50. Had new Tanks, Healers and sometimes both at once. No one rage quit. 15 wipes on Coincounter and no one said a bad word to anyone. Timing out several runs at the Miser herself with nothing but sad farewells and compliments.

Wish we had a way to vote to increase the timer.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

With the 30 minute debuff on leaving the dungeon party. The reason people leave is because the party sucks. Not because the party is good. And at least 75% of the time it is not the person leaving.

Why even increase the timer? Dumb idea.

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They increased it cause the previous wait time wasn't discouraging people from playing like you do. If it were up to me, quitting would give you a 24 hour timer and remove Duty Roulette as an option until you go 1 week without quitting. That would cut the crap really fast and force people to actually start what they finish, instead of bailing cause you don't have the communication skills to help out those who don't know what to do or who are doing things wrong.

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Originally Posted by Cegiana

They increased it cause the previous wait time wasn't discouraging people from playing like you do. If it were up to me, quitting would give you a 24 hour timer and remove Duty Roulette as an option until you go 1 week without quitting. That would cut the crap really fast and force people to actually start what they finish, instead of bailing cause you don't have the communication skills to help out those who don't know what to do or who are doing things wrong.

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Yay, finally a person with a clue. /hug

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

then make ur own premade team n do the dungeons that way.. majority of df users use it for experience n to learn lol its not for pros to abuse n treat newer less experienced players like rubbish... which sadly.... u see way to often <.<

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You don't go into a dungeon not knowing what to do, and expect someone to explain everything and carry you. It takes a matter of 5 minutes to watch a video guide on youtube.

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Originally Posted by Cegiana

They increased it cause the previous wait time wasn't discouraging people from playing like you do. If it were up to me, quitting would give you a 24 hour timer and remove Duty Roulette as an option until you go 1 week without quitting. That would cut the crap really fast and force people to actually start what they finish, instead of bailing cause you don't have the communication skills to help out those who don't know what to do or who are doing things wrong.

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That would be retarded. I've been in hopeless groups with all dps with ilvl 40 sitting on less than 2.7k hp, with zero DL gear that cannot even kill the first boss, even knowing the strat and explaining it 10 times, and wiping 9 times. Some groups simply cannot get it done because of a combination of horrible gear AND no skill.

I was in a group with a ilvl 80 monk that was doing less dps than my BLM who was ilvl 55 and no relic, the monk was pulling dps more like an ilvl 45-50 and was sitting in the wrong stance after being told he did nothing. Couldn't get past wall, he never used LB, he was attacking bees, so after the 2nd attempt, I told the BLM to target the mnks target and just kill it, still wiped. The mnk kept getting knocked off by repel, or was getting the heavy+slow debuff from the shadow ground move which basically doubles your GCD, and was pulling even worse dps than he already was.

And no I do not leave after 1 wipe, I always stay and explain, and sometimes wipe upwards of 5-7 times before calling it. How would you know what I do? You have never even grouped with me troll.

lol 24 hour penalty for quiiters is to much but 30mins isnt enough.... i think a 2 hour penalty is a better 1 for the quitters ;/

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

lol 24 hour penalty for quiiters is to much but 30mins isnt enough.... i think a 2 hour penalty is a better 1 for the quitters ;/

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Nah. Set it to the remaining time in the instance, plus ten minutes.

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Originally Posted by Cegiana

They increased it cause the previous wait time wasn't discouraging people from playing like you do. If it were up to me, quitting would give you a 24 hour timer and remove Duty Roulette as an option until you go 1 week without quitting. That would cut the crap really fast and force people to actually start what they finish, instead of bailing cause you don't have the communication skills to help out those who don't know what to do or who are doing things wrong.

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So tell me then what do you do on the eight wipe on the first boss of HM copperbell because the tank refuses to move out of the fire? When they have been told after every single wipe and they still dont understand that fire is bad you cant help them and you cant finish it. There are also times when something unexpected comes up and you have to leave, its not right to heavily punish people when things like that happen.

I will stay and help people who are new and/ or willing to be taught. I will not stick with a group or even a person, who can't accept criticism, insists that they know the fight yet is the cause of many wipes and constantly yells "GO GO GO!."

On a related note though, I'm doing dungeons to farm tomes which means I'd ideally want to finish as fast as possible, but I'm willing to take a little extra time to help others and make the run go smoothly. I'm not really willing to waste an entire 90 minutes in a dungeon that should take at MOST 20-25 because of a/ a few people who can't play for whatever reason.

There's a happy medium there, and I don't think I'm a bad person for wanting to use my limited play time in the most efficient way possible and be somewhat insistent that people learn to play.

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Originally Posted by Melinia

Nah. Set it to the remaining time in the instance, plus ten minutes.

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its gotta b somethin that makes them no rage quit tho ;/ atm its way to low..... considerin the wait time for dps compared to healers n tanks.. even the dps who do a decent job get punished anyways cause some1 tantrumed n rage quitted ;/

ive seen ppl leave just cause some1 said whats ot right at start of entering instance... considering i had 35mins wait for that 1 titan hm.. then every1 leaves b4 any1 even attacks the boss.. had 30min wait time b4 the next 1 sooo i got punished 1 hour cause some sooky lala wasnt even gonna attempt it cause a person didnt know what ot meant ._. so 2 hours minimum in my opinion ;/

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

its gotta b somethin that makes them no rage quit tho ;/ atm its way to low..... considerin the wait time for dps compared to healers n tanks.. even the dps who do a decent job get punished anyways cause some1 tantrumed n rage quitted ;/

ive seen ppl leave just cause some1 said whats ot right at start of entering instance... considering i had 35mins wait for that 1 titan hm.. then every1 leaves b4 any1 even attacks the boss.. had 30min wait time b4 the next 1 sooo i got punished 1 hour cause some sooky lala wasnt even gonna attempt it cause a person didnt know what ot meant ._. so 2 hours minimum in my opinion ;/

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If I are in an instance with thirty minutes left and the group will not succeed and its a two hour wait if you quit then depending on what I was doing I would probably just go afk and let the timer run out.

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Originally Posted by Little_Gray

If I are in an instance with thirty minutes left and the group will not succeed and its a two hour wait if you quit then depending on what I was doing I would probably just go afk and let the timer run out.

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well isnt that better then some1 leavin asoon as they enter cause its some1s first time or doesnt know what ot means? the punishment for ditchin teams is way to light currently so ppl need a harsher penalty to stop that

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

well isnt that better then some1 leavin asoon as they enter cause its some1s first time or doesnt know what ot means? the punishment for ditchin teams is way to light currently so ppl need a harsher penalty to stop that

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As long as I can still get stuck in groups that will 100% guaranteed never finish and instance then the penalty is not to light. You need to consider that sometimes people are just to stupid to listen or somebody is massively undergeared and will prevent the group from completing it. While it sucks that people will leave because of one new person its a necessary evil.

I think the 30 minute penalty is ok, but between the penalty and vote kick, they did leave a number of possible scenarios unaddressed. A lot of games that have different difficulty settings, will pop up a message, "You have died a lot. Would you like to switch to easy mode?" In the case of ARR, it could offer the option to abandon and reform the group with no penalty to anyone. If nobody agrees with you, perhaps there is a reason for that. You can always ask for a vote kick.

This topic seems to look like this "Bad luck Vs Griefer". I choose the former.

If you ended up being in a group of pt that you know will definitely not going to complete the duty, you just gotta leave the duty and shrug it off as pure bad luck and endure your 30 min penalty.

If SE were to take out penalty, you can be assured A-hole Griefer will be all over the place.

Yes, SE might sometimes be punishing the wrong person. You might not be the cause for the failure in completing duty, but if they remove the penalty, everyone is being punished instead by having to endure Griefing.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

well isnt that better then some1 leavin asoon as they enter cause its some1s first time or doesnt know what ot means? the punishment for ditchin teams is way to light currently so ppl need a harsher penalty to stop that

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I had a bugged CT the other day. Completely unfinishable due to the nature of the bug (could not damage one of the Atomos spawns), and the bug persisted through three wipes. I was the first from my party to leave, and as such had to deal with a 30 minute timer. Not too big a deal, but frustrating nonetheless.

People need to understand that whatever punishment is implemented to stop griefers will sometimes, through sheer bad fortune, affect innocent people as well. I personally think that thirty minutes is about right, but, in all honesty, the few times I've dropped group, a harsher penalty wouldn't have made any difference.

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

If SE were to take out penalty, you can be assured A-hole Griefer will be all over the place.

Yes, SE might sometimes be punishing the wrong person. You might not be the cause for the failure in completing duty, but if they remove the penalty, everyone is being punished instead by having to endure Griefing.

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I'm not asking them to remove the penalty. I am asking them to do something about hopeless parties that CANNOT complete a duty, 2 different situations.

The penalty is for the buttholes and people who abuse duty finder. There is no mechanism in place for just horrid parties, and the penalty is "treating" the hopeless party as a party who is average and can complete the instance, which it cannot, so there needs to be another mechanism in place for this.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

I'm not asking them to remove the penalty. I am asking them to do something about hopeless parties that CANNOT complete a duty, 2 different situations.

The penalty is for the buttholes and people who abuse duty finder. There is no mechanism in place for just horrid parties, and the penalty is "treating" the hopeless party as a party who is average and can complete the instance, which it cannot, so there needs to be another mechanism in place for this.

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Kind of like the vote kick system, vote abandon duty. That way, it just ends the dungeon early.
They need to fix Duty Roulette to where if you have never finished a dungeon, you do not get put into that dungeon.

On the topic of tanks leaving at the start just because they can. The only roulette I ever done I was 24, we ended up in Halatali. The tank quitted right away, I guess we wanted an higher level instance. The DF took like half an hour to find a new one. Imagine if there was no leaving penality, they would do this all the time.
(Specifications about that time, I tanked the place with topaz, the other dps left just right before first boss so me and the healer duoed it, since the new dps only arrived after bossroom was locked, then a bit after first boss we had to stop and wait because no way we could do that without a tank. Sure I wouldn't want this to be the norm.)

One thing I can't stand though, is in CT every group is punished separately, so even if the rest of the alliance left and you're the only group left in there, if you leave you get penality. I don't think it's fair, it should be counted as for a single group, if one group of the alliance left the others should be free to leave too.

In group fights I think you have to be comitted to the group, and accept that DF might bring one or several unexperienced/undergeared players together. We are not born with a PhD. Most people are patient, understanding and helpful. A hopeles group does not justify leaving, IMO, the new players will get better, even if this dungeon fails. Maximizing the tome obtaining/minute of play ratio is not the reason to play, but it is good. When nearly no time is left a group quit with no penalty would be OK. In addition: not being a good player is not a reason to kick vote. Being afk, harassing, etc. yes. If someone does not care at all, deliberately spoils the run and really makes no effort then there is reason to kick vote, in my opinion. From my point of view, pointing fingers with no constructive critic in an alliance chat and asking other party to kick someone for not playing well enough is very near to harassing. (This has not happened to me, luckily, but I have witnessed it.)

The majority of the ragequiters I have run into are the bads and the groups are better for it. I have quit out of one dungeon (AV... healer was BAD) and threatened to leave another. I do a lot of instances with DF so yeah.

Plus you can't find a static, reliable party to queue with, if you want to farm commendations. So that is out of the window.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

On the topic of tanks leaving at the start just because they can. The only roulette I ever done I was 24, we ended up in Halatali. The tank quitted right away, I guess we wanted an higher level instance. The DF took like half an hour to find a new one. (Specifications about that time, I tanked the place with topaz, the other dps left just right before first boss so me and the healer duoed it, since the new dps only arrived after bossroom was locked, then a bit after first boss we had to stop and wait because no way we could do that without a tank. Sure I wouldn't want this to be the norm.

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Funny story! Did roulette today on THM and got Halatali. Tank was an arrogant a@@. Based on similar language, I'm guessing the other DPS was his buddy. Anyway, tank is chirping at WHM all through the dungeon. We get to Tangata, and for whatever reason, the other DPS gets himself locked out of the fight. I'm not going to say the WHM let tank die on purpose, but I would certainly understand! So, tank is dead within the first round of adds. WHM and I get to see all kinds of insults while we continued to fight Tangata. Made it worth it,though, when the two of us beat the boss without any help from them!

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Originally Posted by Katchii

I will stay and help people who are new and/ or willing to be taught. I will not stick with a group or even a person, who can't accept criticism, insists that they know the fight yet is the cause of many wipes and constantly yells "GO GO GO!."

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This bit, so much. Yes, ragequitting and not being willing to work with those making mistakes to try and fix them isn't good behavior. However, it's a double edged sword, and if the person or people making the mistakes are outright arrogantly denying their mistakes and are unwilling to work with those trying to help them fix their mistakes, it's time to go.

I actually don't mind the punishment. Some people really deserve it.

I'm currently stuck on Titan HM simply because people keep ditching after 2-3 tries and no win. I'm sorry, but if you use DF and half the people say in the log that they are new to it, then you cannot expect to win right away. Using DF almost gauruntees someone new. If you want a speed run, use party finder.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

With the 30 minute debuff on leaving the dungeon party. The reason people leave is because the party sucks. Not because the party is good. And at least 75% of the time it is not the person leaving.

Why even increase the timer? Dumb idea.

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cry much? A good tank makes up for alot of bad in the group. but since you're not geared lol i guess you can't do that huh

well 30 min is not even scary, I am so bored of getting low level dungeons in roulette that I quit on seeing the loading screen... true am sorry for the other members, but seriously, doing satsasha when u lvl 41 over and over again is not worth it. And until SE changes their policy I won't be using much of it anymore anyway.

I like how the answer to any problem in a game is "more punishment!" It just seems like an extremely lazy quick fix and brushes the problem under the rug while not having to deal with the problem directly. The then 15 minute and now 30 minute cooldown for quitting first is more than enough. People wanting a much longer penalty are just doing it to spite people. If anything, a longer penalty would just encourage MORE griefing because now a griefer will troll people and hope that someone in the group will leave so the quitter gets the punishment.


Unfortunately, the only viable solution to it all is form your own party.

The penalty should start at 30 minutes and me cumulative. If the player drops again within 12 hours their timer increases to 2 hours. If the player drops more than 7 times in the course of a week it should be set to 2 hours for the next 7 days. It should continue to increase and even start blocking players from entering dungeons all together, even in pre-formed parties. If you're going to continue to rage quit on people you need to be punished.

After the vote to abandon duty option appears there should be no reason for players to quit by themselves other than real life, whereas a 30 minute penalty wouldn't affect the player.

I think the penalty is fine. What they need to add is an option for the party to resign from the fight if it's just not working. There comes a point in every fail run where everyone is acutely aware that it's not going to happen, and everyone is praying that someone else will bite the bullet and take the 30minute lockout.

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Originally Posted by Sax

I think the penalty is fine. What they need to add is an option for the party to resign from the fight if it's just not working. There comes a point in every fail run where everyone is acutely aware that it's not going to happen, and everyone is praying that someone else will bite the bullet and take the 30minute lockout.

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They actually announced a feature like this to be added soon, I think.

Yes, a group option to disband and quit the dungeon is coming in 2.2.

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Originally Posted by Fors

What would happen if they removed the penalty for leaving a duty:

I'm a tank and I feel like laughing at others' misfortune because I'm a terrible person. So I decide that I'm going to spend my evening finding groups on the duty finder and then leaving 1 minute after everyone loads in. Because I'm a tank and because there's nothing stopping me from doing it over and over again, I get to ruin several dozen people's evenings and fall asleep laughing at their cries.

It's important for the penalty to exist because griefers will always exist.

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https://i.canvasugc.com/ugc/original...9c1bbed109.png

Penalty have a reason that's for sure