Please take Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium off the roulette.

Sadly for the reason of angered df people i have barely even watched 1 cutscene.
And watching in the inn does not feel the same, it would be better in the moment

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Regardless of how a single person wants to experience the game, it's still rude to expect people to wait up on you. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting around for people, I've been in parties with plenty of people who mention they do their daily before going to work or school or what have you, and thus want to get it done fast. And this is fine. You just need to expect speedruns now. It's very easy to aeither use party finder to find people who want to experience the story within the dungeon, or to just state to a DR/DF party that it's your first time and you want to watch the cutscenes, and see if they'll let you or not.

Expecting a group of strangers to wait up on you if you don't say anything about it is extremely rude, as they literally have no obligation to. At the very least, letting people know your intentions for the run helps to know if you should find a new party or will be okay with the one you're currently in. It isn't that hard.

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Not sure I agree with that. If I happen to experience this 1st time, do I even know if the other are already done this long time ago, wanting to speed it up and skip cs?
I think most players new to this are in awe with the story cs & lore before they even knew that this might cost other player's patience.

So generally, other players beside this new one who wanted to enjoy story cs for 1st time should excuse themselves and give others the benefit of patience, don't you think?

As for reasons like having our daily IRL tasks like school or work, I think we all should have realize the consequences of time especially when playing MMO. So again, it is not new player's fault if they want to enjoy cs.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

If I may add something, I noticed that roulette in general makes levelling experience through dungeons worse. When I levelled with my main, it was all low level people fighting their way the same, learning their class, learning the mechanics, and it was enjoyable. Sure, there also was the factor of game just launched and everybody being new that helped, but that's another thing. Fact is, a high level running a dungeon for roulette, only does it for the reward, and so tries to hurry the run, gets impatient and everything, not letting someone who's effectively attuned to that level enjoy it as it should be. I find it quite frustrating.
So I don't think the problem is for CM and PT only, but for any dungeon you have roulette people in. Just, the other dungeons had faseable queues alrady without it.

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I have experienced quite the opposite in my roulette runs, the higher level people are much more forgiving and understanding of the newer players. I was in a run the other day where our tank had never done a dungeon run ever, his/her very first one. S/he had a hard time of it and was very much new but not one of the three of us complained or griped or got upset at this person. Instead we simply gave some pointers and advice and let them loose on whatever they wanted to do.
It also doesn't hurt that being scaled down from such a high level makes you much stronger than the average toon running the dungeon, thus being able to take/give a little more punishment and it makes the runs a bit more forgiving in light of the lack of experience from any newer member. Roulette groups have run dungeons much faster and smoother and generally are much nicer than other PUG's or party finder groups, in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Regardless of how a single person wants to experience the game, it's still rude to expect people to wait up on you. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting around for people, I've been in parties with plenty of people who mention they do their daily before going to work or school or what have you, and thus want to get it done fast. And this is fine. You just need to expect speedruns now. It's very easy to either use party finder to find people who want to experience the story within the dungeon, or to just state to a DR/DF party that it's your first time and you want to watch the cutscenes, and see if they'll let you or not.

Expecting a group of strangers to wait up on you if you don't say anything about it is extremely rude, as they literally have no obligation to. At the very least, letting people know your intentions for the run helps to know if you should find a new party or will be okay with the one you're currently in. It isn't that hard.

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You realize your entire argument can also be made against you, right? If these people do their daily runs before work/school and need to gogogo then maybe they should plan their time better, or find another time to do it, or asked to be kicked to re-queue. The patient do not need to cater to the impatient nor does the impatient need to cater to the patient. Neither side is right or wrong in this but going into story mode quests, you better expect that people will be watching cut scenes. I don't get mad at people in a bookstore reading books and tell them "Just go read it in your room!".

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Originally Posted by Kevin949

-text-

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If the majority of the party is there for their daily run and not to sit around watching cutscenes, then it's rude for the one or two people who ARE there to watch the scenes to ask them to wait.

The reverse is also true, if the majority of people in the party are there to watch the story/don't mind watching the scenes, then the one or two people who don't want to do that are rude for expecting everyone to speedrun. It goes both ways. Letting everyone know your intentions for the run at the beginning will save a lot of time and annoyance for both sides of the coin. Doing this is not that hard nor is it asking too much of people.

Or yknow, use the Party Finder.

Bullshit! If you don't have time to play you shouldn't even queue up.

As I said before, you are doing storycontent either for needing it, or to help people get through it.
Storycontent does not give Mythology and there are far more efficient ways to farm Philosophy, especially when dealing with people new to a (story) dungeon.

So either join up to help these people enjoy their last storymissions or queue up

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Or yknow, use the Party Finder.

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for some AK or WP (speed)runs.
But don't go ruin the day of the couple of people trying to do their story quests.

Thankfully I never had the "privilege" to run with selfish bastards like you and the ones helping me and the party let us enjoy our cutscenes and the fights.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Storycontent does not give Mythology and there are far more efficient ways to farm Philosophy, especially when dealing with people new to a (story) dungeon.

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To be fair, a single CM or Prae takes far less time for far more tomes than AK or WP does, in my experience. Thus why I only bother with those two when I need philo tomes (also because I love Ultima fight in Prae).

Do pray you will never find me in a party with you, because I will opt a vote kick on anyone that even suggests newbies to skip cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Do pray you will never find me in a party with you, because I will opt a vote kick on anyone that even suggests newbies to skip cutscenes.

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Considering most parties I end up in are 90% speedrunners, you have fun with that. Personally, I prefer speedruns. However if I do end up in a party with more people wanting to watch cutscenes than not, then it doesn't bother me. It's just when pretty much all but one or two people in the party are there for speedruns do I find it rude for those one/two people to ask everyone to wait on them.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Regardless of how a single person wants to experience the game, it's still rude to expect people to wait up on you. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting around for people, I've been in parties with plenty of people who mention they do their daily before going to work or school or what have you, and thus want to get it done fast. And this is fine. You just need to expect speedruns now. It's very easy to either use party finder to find people who want to experience the story within the dungeon, or to just state to a DR/DF party that it's your first time and you want to watch the cutscenes, and see if they'll let you or not.

Expecting a group of strangers to wait up on you if you don't say anything about it is extremely rude, as they literally have no obligation to. At the very least, letting people know your intentions for the run helps to know if you should find a new party or will be okay with the one you're currently in. It isn't that hard.

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I'm sorry but this is retarded. The Duty Finder explicitly says how much time a dungeon can take. So if you queue up for it without that amount of time available to you then you are at fault and are potentially ruining other people's enjoyment of what is actually a wonderfully crafted dungeon experience.

It's fine to schedule your Duty Roulette in when there's time available but don't do so expecting it to be a flawless Gogogorush run when you're time limited. That's poor time management right there.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

If the majority of the party is there for their daily run and not to sit around watching cutscenes, then it's rude for the one or two people who ARE there to watch the scenes to ask them to wait.

The reverse is also true, if the majority of people in the party are there to watch the story/don't mind watching the scenes, then the one or two people who don't want to do that are rude for expecting everyone to speedrun. It goes both ways. Letting everyone know your intentions for the run at the beginning will save a lot of time and annoyance for both sides of the coin. Doing this is not that hard nor is it asking too much of people.

Or yknow, use the Party Finder.

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Here's something you 'speedrunners' don't seem to actually understand about the Duty Roulette: there will always be at least one person who's queued for it specifically for you to actually get a run through.

That's the point. You're there to help that person go through the dungeon because they specifically queued for it. You getting those extra tomes is a bonus to say "Thank you" for being a nice person and helping.

And besides, the cutscenes don't add that much extra time to the dungeon run especially when you have people who are used to the mechanics going through it. Castrum's is barely a couple of minutes. Prae is admittedly more cutscene heavy but it is the final dungeon of the story. It's the culmination of all of your work through 50 levels on dealing with this threat to the world.

And you want to take that away from someone because you think you're entitled to getting a few more tomestones (which are ridiculously easy to get and are ultimately worthless compared to what you get at stuff that's actually appropriate for you) faster?

You're the reason MMOs have gone to hell.

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Originally Posted by Caraway

whining entitlement

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Yes because waiting for one person when the rest of the party prefers to speedrun is totally justified. That logic is faulty as hell and shows how entitled people are nowadays. Cutscenes can be watched back at the inn, missing them in the run is not that big of a deal unless you yourself make it one, which means you're the one with the problem, not anyone else. I run duty roulette every day for my tomes and I run Prae for the Ultima fights since I enjoy them. I do not run to help out people I don't even know, but if that ends up being what I'm doing, so be it.

Additionally, most parties I end up in at least let people know it'll be a speedrun, and people have asked to be kicked because they want to watch the story. They had no problem with asking this and they did not give everyone in the party hell over not wanting to sit around waiting for them to watch cutscenes. People should learn from those guys.

Thing is: speedruns shouldn't be the norm. Through duty finder you do normal runs. If you want speedruns, Party Finder! or run with your fc/friends. Speedrun is not the normal method to run a dungeon. And you should know Sqeenix is trying everything to prevent speedruns from happening at all, so they're sure not wanted by design.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I do not run to help out people I don't even know, but if that ends up being what I'm doing, so be it.

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And this right here is the problem with the current generation of MMO players. "I want my tomes and I want them now. Your immersion be damned." What you don't seem to be understanding is this is someone's first time doing this. When you speed run it they aren't learning anything, they aren't understanding the content, and they're not getting to experience the story that has been crafted purposefully for them to experience as they're killing the bosses.

You are subverting the game design because you're too impatient to get a piece of gear you're going to replace in a week or two anyway.

The irony is you probably complain about people who don't know fight mechanics too.

yeah... think we need to move on though. Kinda useless debate and unrelated to main topic. lol

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Originally Posted by Caraway

whining and assumptions

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You love to assume things about me. I've already geared up my main class, I just gather philo now to slowly work on preparing for my second class, and I don't yell at people who don't know the fight due to it being their first time in there. That stuff happens and we were all there once. I run MS DR more for the fun of the fights than anything. I enjoy the runs that much.

As for immersion, I skipped cutscenes my first time despite not having to, because if you haven't noticed, CM cutscenes can happen in the middle of a fight, which is not only annoying but also dangerous for people. Doing this did not break immersion for me whatsoever, and I love to be immersed in game lore and story. But when cutscenes endanger the entire party due to going off at inopportune times, I'd much rather everyone skip them so no one dies from getting attacked. Prae is better for watching scenes, but CM is horrible for 50% of the run.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

As for immersion, I skipped cutscenes my first time despite not having to, because if you haven't noticed, CM cutscenes can happen in the middle of a fight, which is not only annoying but also dangerous for people. Doing this did not break immersion for me whatsoever, and I love to be immersed in game lore and story. But when cutscenes endanger the entire party due to going off at inopportune times, I'd much rather everyone skip them so no one dies from getting attacked. Prae is better for watching scenes, but CM is horrible for 50% of the run.

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Just so you're aware, when you're in those cutscenes you're invulnerable. You yourself cannot die while you're watching a cutscene. The rest of the party sure as heck might if you happen to be one of the healers and the group isn't overgeared though. But that is just all the more reason for everyone to watch the scenes, especially in CM where they add a very minimal amount of time.

Obviously, I have a personal beef with people who bully others into skipping cutscenes on these dungeons regardless of whether it's their first time and it is actually because of CM.

I play this game with my partner and so we duo joined Duty Finder for pretty much all of our dungeons. I had been reading the forums before we got to CM and Prae so I knew something of what I was going to expect with regards to the attitude of people doing the runs (this was before the changes to AK and WP that moved people away from speed running the two story 8-mans). I warned her that we might get some slack from people wanting to rush through but I never expected what ended up happening.

There was little to no communication besides being told to skip the cutscenes and ignore mobs. No strats were explained as everyone rushed to do things they already knew. We had no idea what was going on, why we were doing what we where doing or where some of the events were coming from.

It was a total Charlie Foxtrot. And it ruined that dungeon for us. In fact, the caustic attitude of the people when we came out of the first cutscene and the impatience and curtness to do it the speedrun way was nearly enough for us to just give up entirely on the game (there were other factors, primarily due to our being on a server with a, in our opinions, extremely unfriendly community that added to this as well so it wasn't just this dungeon) but we decided to stick it out and tried Prae.

When we did Prae we made it perfectly clear at the beginning of the dungeon that we were new, had never done the dungeon and wanted to be able to view the cutscenes. I was playing tank and she DD. That group whinged about it so I ate the DF cooldown and we tried with a second group. While there were still some whinging players the majority were in the same group as we were and hadn't seen the cutscenes either. So we continued on. Even still, two people were impatient enough to skip cutscenes before the fight on the lift so they nearly wiped themselves until the rest of us arrived and the same thing happened after the Ultima fight.

My main issue with the speedrunners expecting people to follow in line with these particular dungeons is that they are key dungeons to the plot, and it's new players who are coming to them. These dungeons are their first toe-tip into the content at max level and for some people it could completely throw them off wanting to continue playing the game if they think the entire community is like that (it isn't, and I've been lucky enough to meet people who genuinely care about the other people they share this game with).

Maybe it would be different if speedrunners weren't (for the most part, you yourself may be different as you're expressing) jerks about it, but the vast majority are. They are impatient and force a decision on other people who are trying to experience something new and honestly amazing.

As you yourself said, the fights in Prae are awesome (especially Ultima). But they're made all the more so by knowing what's going on and having that context.

And to use the Philosophy tomestones as the excuse for sacrificing a new player's experience is a sham, because you could be doing High Level instead, getting Mythology tomes as well as Philosophy and decent dungeon drops for your alts.

Rewarding players for joining the Story Roulette is an excellent idea and will make sure that new players can find groups to complete the content with (which will otherwise gate them from experiencing pretty much everything else) but doing it with Philosophy tomes just brought back the same problem we had before AK and WP were adjusted to be more lucrative. Changing the reward to something cosmectic (when we have vanity slots anyway) may be for the better.

I was not aware cutscenes gave invulnerability, as I had seen people die from watching a cutscenes before so I assumed CM's overabundance of (slightly useless at times) cutscenes were a danger to the party. My apologies for that and I appreciate the knowledge, as now I won't have to worry about my slight load time delay when I skip them (gotta love playing on a potato).

I'm sorry to hear your first time with CM went badly. I got lucky with having most of the party be from my FC, and thus they were patient and made sure to at least explain the basics of fights/strategies to me. What you did in Prae was a better idea that you likely should have done in CM regardless of knowing how badly it could turn out, letting everyone know when you're new to a dungeon will save not only you time, but everyone else as well. Plus it'll save everyone a lot of headaches.

Honestly, I've never once bullied someone into skipping cutscenes. Usually I don't even say anything one way or the other at the beginning of a run, as usually the tank/healer always says something in regards to how the run's going to go. If someone says they don't want to miss the cutscenes, I just remind them/let them know they can watch them in the inn and that's about all I say on the matter. I usually stay quiet in parties I get into regardless of whether we're speedrunning or not. And yes, 70% of speedrunners are either jerks or so terrible at their job that they screw up the dungeon for everyone, new player or veteran alike. Especially in CM, I can't tell you how many completely inept parties I've had. I have better parties with newbies to that fight than I do people who have run it many times. Thus another reason why I prefer Praetorium.

I suppose it's probably different for everyone, but I skipped cutscenes on the Ultima fight as well since I didn't want to make my party wait (despite it being made mostly of FC members). The fight still had a huge amount of importance to me regardless, and it's one of many reasons I continue to spam Prae every day, through DR or not. I cannot get over how well-done Ultima is. It was the perfect end fight (I don't count Lahabrea as the final fight because that entire fight was boring and gimmicky to me) for the story.

However, the thing about Philo tomes is, High Level DR doesn't give the same amount of them as a daily reward, and especially not for such easy (yet fun) work. Thus why I think people prefer running MS DR, it's less work for more profit, as well as the fact a lot of people likely use it to gear up in order to take on the High Level DR. I prefer running CT for my myth, so I don't bother with HL DR all that much (also because I had 2 horrible runs of Hard Mode dungeons in a row that wiped so many times the timer reached 0).

I think what really needs to be done is just make a separate MS DR available to fresh 50s and people wanting to get their story done, that gives no Philo rewards (or if it does, the bare minimum in comparison to other runs). This would keep people who do MS for their daily philo out of the runs of new people wanting to experience the story, and would also prevent new players from having horrible first-time runs due to 90% of party members wanting to speedrun.

.... Stupid forum character limit! I had a response to the above, mostly highlighting the suggestion of having a separate duty roulette for people new to the two fights and my copy of what I had posted got eaten so I'll try again.

I think that if you had a special queue only for people new to the run they would end up with the problem they had post the AK/WP reward buff; the queue times would become incredibly long and it would make those dungeons a bottle neck for new players.

When you take into account the current MMO culture that is so heavily focused on tangible rewards and the game design supporting it, it's hard to encourage altruistic behavior without opening up possibilities of harassment. Any possibility I can think of where there is an item reward (whether it's lessening it, or giving cosmetics instead, etc) would still have the same trouble of people wanting to go through as quick as they can to get their shinies and be on with their day. Which can be damaging to the community as a whole for the reasons I talked about above (jerk players will always be jerk players if given the chance, after all).

Maybe what could be done is that if you Roulette into CM/Prae any Commendations you get are multiplied. It's a reward you only get if people feel you were a good player and as far as I've seen in other content has helped to foster a kinder, gentler duty finder where people are more frequently talkative, and offer help.

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Originally Posted by Caraway

And this right here is the problem with the current generation of MMO players. "I want my tomes and I want them now. Your immersion be damned." What you don't seem to be understanding is this is someone's first time doing this. When you speed run it they aren't learning anything, they aren't understanding the content, and they're not getting to experience the story that has been crafted purposefully for them to experience as they're killing the bosses.

You are subverting the game design because you're too impatient to get a piece of gear you're going to replace in a week or two anyway.

The irony is you probably complain about people who don't know fight mechanics too.

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This poster right here is the problem with current generation MMO players. "I'm too much of a special snowflake to watch the cut scene in the inn, the 7 other people in my group should cater to my special needs so I can watch them in the dungeon"

You think that just because it's your first time you should get some kind of special treatment where everyone sits around wasting their time doing nothing for 10 minutes while you watch a cut scene in the middle of the dungeon. You have the option to watch them in your inn, but NO YOU HAVE TO WATCH THEM NOW and to hell with the rest of the world because your time is more important than that of anyone else.

Heh, despite my previous post, I just did CM and Prae for the first time with 4 other members from my FC. It was the most miserable experience I've ever had. After getting locked out of the first boss of CM, I realized it was either swallow my pride of wanting to enjoy the game or GTFO. My mates didn't want everyone in the party to wipe and suffer the endless cycle of people leaving and saying "skip cutscenes or I'm out", so one of them stayed behind to show me where to go after everyone was nearly halfway through.

I managed to get to the next boss just before the lockout, with help skipping enemies and a mate to guide me through at least. I still don't know anything about any of the fights and felt like I was carried the whole time. Same with Prae, but it was less traumatic. Skipped everything because I just wanted to get it over with. I didn't die my first time, and even got a couple commendations for being a good WHM through all the fights, but y'know what? Caraway is right. After this, I don't feel like touching end game content at all! If this is a precursor of things to come, I'll stick to crafting and gathering.

I know this is more of a personal problem, and sorry to rant about it like this. My selfishness extends to wanting to learn the fights and see the story as it happens, but that's asking way too much in this community.

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Originally Posted by Aureliami

This poster right here is the problem with current generation MMO players. "I'm too much of a special snowflake to watch the cut scene in the inn, the 7 other people in my group should cater to my special needs so I can watch them in the dungeon."

You think that just because it's your first time you should get some kind of special treatment where everyone sits around wasting their time doing nothing for 10 minutes while you watch a cut scene in the middle of the dungeon. You have the option to watch them in your inn, but NO YOU HAVE TO WATCH THEM NOW and to hell with the rest of the world because your time is more important than that of anyone else.

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I think you're missing a major problem with your little flailing there about "special snowflake" and the poster below you, quoted below, is a perfect example why I'm vocally anti-speedrun for these dungeons.

You also don't seem to understand why I said what I said in the first place. Before MMOs became the incredibly popular thing they are now, people would help each other just for the sake of helping. People respected other people and treated them as more than just a means to an end.

Contrast communities like early EQ and Vanguard and you'll notice a major difference between those and most popular MMOs out these days. The atmosphere is different because they started playing these kind of games where you had to help people, and if you got known to be a jerk you didn't get helped at all. Your reputation mattered back then.

Not so much anymore, and FFXIV is admittedly extremely bad for this due to the way the cross-server Duty Finder is designed (but that's a whole other rant).

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Originally Posted by ruinedmirage

Heh, despite my previous post, I just did CN and Prae for the first time with 4 other members from my FC. It was the most miserable experience I've ever had. After getting locked out of the first boss of CM, I realized it was either swallow my pride of wanting to enjoy the game or GTFO. My didn't want everyone in the party to wipe and suffer the endless cycle of people leaving and saying "skip cutscenes or I'm out", so one of them stayed behind to show me where to go after everyone was nearly halfway through.

I managed to get to the next boss just before the lockout, with help skipping enemies and a mate to guide me through at least. I still don't know anything about any of the fights and felt like I was carried the whole time. Same with Prae, but it was less traumatic. Skipped everything because I just wanted to get it over with. I didn't die my first time, and even got a couple commendations for being a good WHM through the fight, but y'know what? Caraway is right. After this, I don't feel like touching end game content at all! If this is a precursor of things to come, I'll stick to crafting and gathering.

I now this is more of a personal problem, and sorry to rant about it like this. My selfishness extends to wanting to learn the fights and see the story as it happens, but that's asking way too much in this community.

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As a community we should never, ever want to see this.

This right here is why I feel that even if they're not the majority, the people being forced to go through a story dungeon they've never done before in a way that effectively kills the story is much worse than someone who's done a dungeon X times not being able to shave off five minutes (in the case of CM, ~10-15 in Prae) of their daily run.

I do not believe it's an entitlement issue for someone to want to experience the game as it's designed to be experienced. I do, however, think it's poor form for a vet of the game to bully a new player because they want their pixels faster.

Like I said above, which Aureliami so conveniently decided not to include in their flippant little remark, there is a problem with Duty Roulette: Story Dungeon but I'm not sure what a good solution would be.

Not incentivizing people who've already done it for helping new comers through these fights will just mean they'll be stuck waiting an exceptionally long time to do it. But using Philosophy tomes as a reward for helping just leads to behavior that puts those same new players off.

ruinedmirage, I assure you it gets better. These two dungeons have been a sticking point since 2.0 was released and I don't think they're ever going to find a good balance on them. The decision to gate all of the end-game behind these two dungeons means they are necessary if you want to proceed. In every dungeon I've done after them though the community has been mostly helpful, friendly, and fun.

I think there's just something about the ease of these dungeons and the unbalanced reward that brings out the worst in people.

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Originally Posted by Aureliami

This poster right here is the problem with current generation MMO players. "I'm too much of a special snowflake to watch the cut scene in the inn, the 7 other people in my group should cater to my special needs so I can watch them in the dungeon"

You think that just because it's your first time you should get some kind of special treatment where everyone sits around wasting their time doing nothing for 10 minutes while you watch a cut scene in the middle of the dungeon. You have the option to watch them in your inn, but NO YOU HAVE TO WATCH THEM NOW and to hell with the rest of the world because your time is more important than that of anyone else.

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While I agree that people can be a bit entitled when it comes to cutscenes in a dungeon, insulting people isn't going to help either side of the discussion's opinion.

As I've said before, if the majority of the party wants to watch cutscenes or do not mind watching them, then I don't mind waiting. I'll still skip the scenes just because I've seen them 5 million times by now, but I won't be annoyed waiting for the rest of the party. However, I find it extremely entitled and rude when a single person demands people in the party wait for them to watch cutscenes. ASKING people to wait is fine, but demanding them to? No, you're rude and you need to get over yourself.

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Originally Posted by Caraway

.... Stupid forum character limit! I had a response to the above, mostly highlighting the suggestion of having a separate duty roulette for people new to the two fights and my copy of what I had posted got eaten so I'll try again.

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The character limit is very annoying, yes. I just now realized I can edit the rest of a response in.

Yeah, that would be a backfire of a split roulette system, but I'd still imagine longer queue times would be better than people having horrible first runs.

Honestly, at this point in time, it's just better for newbies to a dungeon to point out that they're new, they want to watch story, and they'll need some help with dungeon mechanics, at the beginning of a run. If people don't want to do any of those things, they can just ask to be kicked and requeue, or use Party Finder instead (since unlike other MMOs I've been in with a party finder option, this one is actually getting used a lot). Whether intended or not, the way MS DR is used right now makes it so 90% of the parties want to speedrun, so anyone who uses this to try getting their stories done just needs to be fully aware of that. It's always a safer bet to try getting at least 80~90% of your party to be friends/FC-mates who don't mind helping/like-minded people, rather than hope for the best solo queuing.

The commendation idea might work, since I've seen people going nuts about those to the point they beg for commendations (which is really sad imo, and makes me much less inclined to give commendations to those people). It has less room for abuse than lowering reward systems I suppose.

I laugh when people say new players who want to watch the cutscenes to the climax of the main story line are "entitled". Oh sorry, it's not like the whole thing was being built up from lvls 1-50 and they'd like to have some immersion in the game. Nahh, they should skip out on seeing that because I WANT MY TOKENS. It's already a joke that 70% of the dungeon is skipped anyway through the transporter.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I laugh when people say new players who want to watch the cutscenes to the climax of the main story line are "entitled". Oh sorry, it's not like the whole thing was being built up from lvls 1-50 and they'd like to have some immersion in the game. Nahh, they should skip out on seeing that because I WANT MY TOKENS. It's already a joke that 70% of the dungeon is skipped anyway through the transporter.

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When pretty much all but a single person in the party has said they are speedrunning/would prefer to speedrun, that single person demanding a bunch of strangers wait on them IS entitled. You wouldn't go into a movie theater and demand everyone stay until the end of the credits, would you? I would hope not. Demanding people do things like that, whether in real life or in a game, is entitled and rude.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

When pretty much all but a single person in the party has said they are speedrunning/would prefer to speedrun, that single person demanding a bunch of strangers wait on them IS entitled. You wouldn't go into a movie theater and demand everyone stay until the end of the credits, would you? I would hope not. Demanding people do things like that, whether in real life or in a game, is entitled and rude.

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No, but if someone's trying to do a rifftrax in the middle of the theater when it's my first time seeing it and there's absolutely no reason to think that they've, for example, reserved this viewing of the movie for this purpose, you can damn well bet I'm gonna tell them to shut up and let me enjoy the movie.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

No, but if someone's trying to do a rifftrax in the middle of the theater when it's my first time seeing it and there's absolutely no reason to think that they've, for example, reserved this viewing of the movie for this purpose, you can damn well bet I'm gonna tell them to shut up and let me enjoy the movie.

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If one person in the theatre is doing so, and thus disrupting everyone's viewing pleasure, then yes, it's fine to tell them to stop. But if the entire theatre is doing that? While it still may not be enjoyable or how things "are supposed to go", if it's one voice amid an entire theatre of people doing that, then the better thing to do is either sit and bear it since you can't do much about it either way, OR just walk out of the theatre and hope your next attempt at viewing the movie isn't ruined by people making noise.

Might sound like crappy options, but that's more or less what would be available to you (within this context, anyway. We all know in the real world that entire theatre would get expelled out of the building for disruption, but I digress). In game terms, this means that if you really HAVE to use Duty Finder/Roulette to get through your final story quests, you just should be prepared to maybe have to leave a party due to conflict of desire and interest for the run. You cannot force 90% of the party to do what YOU want them to do, and attempting to is just going to cause everyone problems and unnecessary anger. If, when you ask, people won't stop for cutscenes, you can either skip the cutscenes to keep up, watch the cutscenes but likely get left behind by the rest of the party, or ask the party to kick you so you can requeue and hope for a party more in line with your own interests.

But honestly, at this point, due to how many are using MS DR for philo tomes and thus speedrunning, it's likely a lot less of a hassle to put together a party with Party Finder who will all desire to/be willing to watch cutscenes/are also doing their story.

The Praetorium is really cool, so I definitely understand wanting to see all the cutscenes, because it makes it so much more epic.

However, with Duty Finder, you get what you get. Be it everyone deciding to watch cutscenes, or everyone deciding not to. Regardless of which side of the fence you're on, if you want everyone in your party to be a certain way or behave a certain way, I suggest forming a premade through party finder where you outline your guidelines and expectations.

SOLUTION START YOUR OWN PARTY IN PARTY FINDER AND MAKE SURE YOU TELL EVERYONE ITS TO WATCH THE CUTSCENES

A lot of the posters in this thread should either:

*Switch to decaf/stop guzzling Red Bull

-or-

*Switch to Call of Duty or any other FPS copycat that appeals to ADHD-addled no-lifers.

Seriously, would it kill some of you to let new players have a few minutes to actually enjoy a game they're putting money into? I really don't think SE is sending you checks for completing dungeons in record time.

The last Praetorium run I did was nice. One of the players wanted to watch cutscenes, so we let him. We started the fight on Ultima early though since there is no boss block for him. We still had 70min on the clock or so, so the argument that you can fail the duty is BS (since you skip 70% of the dungeon ANYWAY).

TBH, I am surprised SE didn't fix the magitek transporter exploit.

Wow never thought I would see people using rude against people wanting to experience something correctly for the first time. And then justify it as majority rules. And then to top it off claim logic with the if everyone jumps off a bridge you should jump off bridge defense.

People are in fact entitled to seek enjoyment to their specific standards as well as to complain about them when it is in fact not fair. If you start the game late at launch you were rushed via speed run for tomes, 2.05 duty finder for ever, 2.1 speed ran over for tomes again. Regardless if it is troubling to you or not it is not fair and only because people who are completely capable of making it so choose not to give an experience they recieved or the experience they lost because of the same situation. For people so concerned with not being rude, fair play, and appropriate entitlements you are going against those very ideals logically for your own self gain.

Sorry your experience was ruined OP I can only recommend shouting and party finder posting with story watch all cutscenes selected. Cheers

Ever thought that there might be a small possibility that duty roulette is meant for new players without free company and enough people to run these dungeons, so they can finish the storyline without begging other players for days to help them?
Locking players who didn't complete the storyline out of this would defeat the purpose of duty roulette.
Or would you join someone who is looking to do castrum for the main story?
I rather have duty roulette put me in a group with them and get 300% reward for my time.

For speedruns you can always join or make a group via duty finder or party finder, or you go with your FC.
When joining the "Main Scenario" DR, what do you expect?
It doesn't read "+200 Tomestone Scenario" or "Speedrun Scenario", so expect people to do it for the main scenario.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

Ever thought that there might be a small possibility that duty roulette is meant for new players without free company and enough people to run these dungeons, so they can finish the storyline without begging other players for days to help them?
Locking players who didn't complete the storyline out of this would defeat the purpose of duty roulette.
Or would you join someone who is looking to do castrum for the main story?
I rather have duty roulette put me in a group with them and get 300% reward for my time.

For speedruns you can always join or make a group via duty finder or party finder, or you go with your FC.
When joining the "Main Scenario" DR, what do you expect?
It doesn't read "+200 Tomestone Scenario" or "Speedrun Scenario", so expect people to do it for the main scenario.

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Except that it DOES give 300 extra tomes a day, so some people are going to run it for that sole purpose regardless of how it "should" be used. Any kind of Duty Finder run is going to likely end up with people wanting to do things differently, and most of the time, I see CM and Prae DR runs being speedran by all or 90% of the party.That's just how it is now, anyone using a DF kind of thing of any run should expect people like that, who skip cutscenes and do the dungeon the fastest way they know how, just as people should be aware they may get people who want to take the dungeon slowly (within an acceptable manner, of course) and watch cutscenes. Anyone who wants an entire party to watch cutscenes are better off using Party Finder now, since it is seeing a lot of good use as well as allows you to make it clear what you expect for the run, whereas you'll have to play the game of chance in a DF or DR and hope you get a party of people who have similar interest for the run as you do.

It's just rude to expect a group of complete strangers to wait up on you if they don't want to. Asking people, if you really HAVE to use the DR for finishing your main story quests, if they can wait for you to finish cutscenes is perfectly fine, and you are presented with more options if you make your intentions known at the start of the run. Now, you are always at liberty to watch cutscenes at your leisure regardless of how the run is planned to go, just do not always expect everyone to wait on you if you do this.

If people don't want to wait for cutscenes, it's easy to ask them to kick you so that they don't have to deal with one member of the party getting locked out of fights, and you can either decide to make a party finder group that WILL watch cutscenes, or hope the next party on the roulette or DF will be more what you want. It isn't that hard, people just make this more of a big deal than it needs to be.