Crystal Tower: Do we really have to wait 6 months just to enter the actual tower?

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Discussion: Are you fine with having only one raid for the Crystal Tower for the next 6 months?

I am not saying there is not enough content overall in the 2.1 update.

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2.2 will be in around 3 months time, not 6.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

2.2 will be in around 3 months time, not 6.

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2.2 will not have any CT updates only Coil. That is why I said 6 months from now is when we will finally reach Crystal Tower. That is half a year.

Lol at people complaining that their should be more floors than the coil. It's technically more content than the coil as it is.

Hmm, somehow, the front gate of the tower doesn't count, despite being a labyrinth and part of the crystal tower in FF3, to which the CT content is a throwback to. Also, it doesn't matter if CT's current content amounts to more than 1 or more of Coil's turns, only that Coil has 5 of them, and CT only has one... What does this remind me of?

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Dudley: How many presents are there?
Uncle Vernon: 36, counted them myself.
Dudley: 36! But last year, last year I had 37!
Uncle Vernon: Yes, yes, but some of them are quite a bit bigger than last year.
Dudley: I don't care how big they are!

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So now we seem to be waiting for the part where SE goes

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Alright alright, listen, when we're done eating, we'll go out and get you TWO more presents! How does that sound?

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What does coil have anything to do with CT?

Who made up the illogical and completely irrelevant comparison? Who cares how many turns or how big coil is?

CT was a disappointment...(the part that is in game is cool- don't get me wrong)..but we didn't even get to go into the tower like it seemed we would be able to do... no one cares if it is more content or less content than coil.

CT is fine, you guys are just a bunch of damn babies!

Turns is just different bosses... 4 treasure chests. CT has different bosses and 3or4 treasure chests. I don't understand your complaint.

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

how dare you ask for actual new & interesting content!?
we need more repeated content and slam the word extreme on it to make it actually count as new content!

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Really?

Some people will simply never be pleased.

Why back in my day, we had to wait til an expansion pack was released to get new content. That could take 2 plus years to see! And we had to go to stores to get it! Up hill! In the snow! Barefoot! Both ways!

You kids today and your free content every 3 to 4 months in a patch .. you don't know how lucky you are. And you have the gall to come here and scream a week after getting new content to say, "I want more NOW!"

For shame.

CT was never meant to allow you into the actual tower at the beginning. Yes, they said it was supposed to be in release, but they also said it was going to be released as installments, just like Coil.

Also, you're arguing semantics. The Labyrinth of the Ancients was just as important in FFIII and just as much a part of the final dungeon as the Crystal Tower itself. The fact that you aren't in the ACTUAL tower is pretty irrelevant, and you're complaints stem from your own expectations and not the facts given by the devs. They are not to fault for your (and others') dissatisfaction.

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Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

CT was never meant to allow you into the actual tower at the beginning. Yes, they said it was supposed to be in release, but they also said it was going to be released as installments, just like Coil.

Also, you're arguing semantics. The Labyrinth of the Ancients was just as important in FFIII and just as much a part of the final dungeon as the Crystal Tower itself. The fact that you aren't in the ACTUAL tower is pretty irrelevant, and you're complaints stem from your own expectations and not the facts given by the devs. They are not to fault for your (and others') dissatisfaction.

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So... they said it was supposed to be in at release... it wasn't. But the issues customers have is their own fault because their expectations were different from the facts stated by devs?

Please tell me that you are in no way affiliated with product messaging or customer service. I like the game, too... but this seems more than a bit over the top. The fact that you aren't in the ACTUAL tower might be irrelevant to you.

Besides, the marketing I have seen so far is for the Crystal Tower... not just LotA. Maybe the marketing could have been clearer.... kind of like the messaging with FC housing...player housing.. chocobo raising... and other features they marketed to people that have either not materialized, or have been implemented in a very restrictive way. Maybe that should be blamed on customers, too. Blaming customers is a really great way to deal with things.

In any case... I still believe these things will make it into the game... I just don't think the marketed timeline is realistic... so I will cancel and come back when all this neat stuff is in the game, playable, and not restricted. Then I can enjoy the features, enjoy the full game, and they will have other stuff to look forward to!

I think it is important to remember this community has several elements. There are players here that liked or were willing to sub through 1.0 in the hopes things would get better... while there are players that either did not see 1.0 or canceled after playing it. There is a huge variance in tolerance among players in the current community. -And that's okay!

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I am not saying there is not enough content overall in the 2.1 update.

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I'll say it then. There isn't enough meaningful content in the 2.1 update. It's all BS filler content to try and tide us over.

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Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

CT was never meant to allow you into the actual tower at the beginning.

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Crystal Tower was never meant to allow you into the actual Crystal Tower at the beginning? Ok, well you see: He stated we'd have a four man dungeon prior to entering the Crystal Tower and The Crystal Tower would be a 24 man raid, not the labyrinth of ancients - So no one is really arguing semantics, in their choice to delay the content..they changed everything. Labyrinth of the Ancients is still obviously designed as a small dungeon (in scope) to be done before the meat of the content but they re-provisioned it.

So ms. Kezy, we were given facts - They simply changed by implementation.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

I'm sorry...what was requested which you may not know judging by your join date:

-Titan
-Leviathan
-More Primals, i.e Garuda (Got), Shiva, Ramuh, Diabolos, Carbuncle, Fenrir, Kjata and so on, basically more FF summon fights.
-Better Relic Quest, if you even played 1.x you'd realize a lot of people didn't even attempt Relic or stopped after seals.
-More content in general.

And no, you weren't being sarcastic.

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You are clearly not the keeper of all player requests as I have seen numerous people in and out of game talk about wanting hardermode versions of the current primals. And with 2.1 they did that and fulfilled more requests. Not all mind you, because that would be impossible, but they did a lot.

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Originally Posted by Amocoru

I'll say it then. There isn't enough meaningful content in the 2.1 update. It's all BS filler content to try and tide us over.

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you know if I didn't put that disclaimer in that I would be hung alive, right? People claiming I breeze through content but they never took the chance to look me up on the lodestone.

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Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

Also, you're arguing semantics. The Labyrinth of the Ancients was just as important in FFIII and just as much a part of the final dungeon as the Crystal Tower itself. The fact that you aren't in the ACTUAL tower is pretty irrelevant, and you're complaints stem from your own expectations and not the facts given by the devs. They are not to fault for your (and others') dissatisfaction.

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First, I LOVE FFIII. It is my second favorite Final Fantasy. I am, as are other people, aware of the fact that you have to travel through the Maze before you can get into the Crystal Tower. So then why would SE and Yoshi P tell us they have put Crystal Tower in 2.1 when they really haven't. Most people that love the Final Fantasy series play this game. They picked a poor choice of words because I was expecting the actual Crystal Tower after I completed the Maze.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

You are right. You are assuming that everyone who plays is happy with the Crystal Tower content, yet you have not taken the time to ask everyone. I should have ignored you based off that.

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I cannot believe a thread by someone making posts like this is still standing. I said I think most people don't care, you think most people do care, have you taken the time to ask all the players?

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Originally Posted by LoLo

So then why would SE and Yoshi P tell us they have put Crystal Tower in 2.1 when they really haven't.

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Because the title of the raid is The Crystal Tower: Labyrinth of the Ancients. The Labyrinth itself is a part of the series of raids that amount to the entirety of the Crystal Tower. At this point you aren't even arguing that there should have been more content but that the Labyrinth should have been moved a whole 50 feet so that it was the first floor of the Crystal Tower.

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Originally Posted by Holyhunter

Because the title of the raid is The Crystal Tower: Labyrinth of the Ancients. The Labyrinth itself is a part of the series of raids that amount to the entirety of the Crystal Tower. At this point you aren't even arguing that there should have been more content but that the Labyrinth should have been moved a whole 50 feet so that it was the first floor of the Crystal Tower.

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The crystal tower was advertised as the Crystal Tower, not Crystal Tower: Labyrinth That Is Some Distance Away From The Crystal Tower. It has pictures of multiple bosses planned that we're upcoming. It was hyped as climbing the tower even in one of the blogs.

We haven't entered the crystal tower yet as of 2.1. Those pictures of Amon and crew? Likely years away from being in the game. Are you willing to wait that long?

Because it's looking like it will be one dungeon length raid every 6 months. With looting rules it's only means of longevity that make it more than the average df romp.

I just wanna request that if they do plan on plugging in a line of quests between the Labyrinth and the Crystal Tower, to not include quests that requires you to camp FATEs for hours. >_>

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The crystal tower was advertised as the Crystal Tower, not Crystal Tower: Labyrinth That Is Some Distance Away From The Crystal Tower. It has pictures of multiple bosses planned that we're upcoming. It was hyped as climbing the tower even in one of the blogs.

We haven't entered the crystal tower yet as of 2.1. Those pictures of Amon and crew? Likely years away from being in the game. Are you willing to wait that long?

Because it's looking like it will be one dungeon length raid every 6 months. With looting rules it's only means of longevity that make it more than the average df romp.

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Concept art is not them saying ALL THIS STUFF WILL BE IN AT THE LAUNCH OF THE RAIDS

yeayyyyyyyy today i got onion legs for my dragoons

also for next live letter why dont ask yoshi p about crystal tower update? maybe he change his mind

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Originally Posted by Holyhunter

Concept art is not them saying ALL THIS STUFF WILL BE IN AT THE LAUNCH OF THE RAIDS

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You know what is also not in at the launch of the raids?

The Crystal Tower. It makes for pretty background, but man, I can't wait until that Crystal Tower gets included in the Crystal Tower. I can see it now: A little crystal, some towers...You'd think that would be important to put in when you're calling a raid "Crystal Tower."

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

So... they said it was supposed to be in at release... it wasn't. But the issues customers have is their own fault because their expectations were different from the facts stated by devs?

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No, they said the start of CT was supposed to be in release. They have been saying for quite a while that it would be styled like Coil in that it wouldn't all be released at once. Also, the Labyrinth of the Ancients, to most fans of the series, may as well be the same thing AS the Crystal Tower. Considering the whole thing is supposed to be a bit of fan service for the game, leaving out LotA would have disappointed some fans, me included. Those two things, being separated like Coil and how much of a part LotA was to Crystal Tower, meant it should've been quite easy to figure out their plan.

Personally, I expected what showed up. I'm quite happy with it, and them marketing only Crystal Tower, to me, implies LotA as well. They aren't separate to me and they were hardly separated in the game they came from.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Crystal Tower was never meant to allow you into the actual Crystal Tower at the beginning? Ok, well you see: He stated we'd have a four man dungeon prior to entering the Crystal Tower and The Crystal Tower would be a 24 man raid, not the labyrinth of ancients - So no one is really arguing semantics, in their choice to delay the content..they changed everything. Labyrinth of the Ancients is still obviously designed as a small dungeon (in scope) to be done before the meat of the content but they re-provisioned it.

So ms. Kezy, we were given facts - They simply changed by implementation.

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That wasn't at all my point of arguing semantics. LotA basically is a part of the Crystal Tower. If you play FFIII, that is quite clear. If they were to implement Crystal Tower without it, it just wouldn't feel right. See above as to why you should have expected it in the first place. By the way, I'd like to see where what you said was mentioned because I've never heard that. Also, not a fan of the attitude. I'm just having a nice discussion here. It's better to be friends than jumping down each other's throats (b^_^)b

Edit: My point has been summed up well. Listen to Tiggy below me here :P

People here are too caught up on semantics. The labyrinth and the tower are intrinsically linked. One does not exist without the other. Just because this part is called a Labyrinth and the tower is called the tower doesn't change the fact they are one facility as a whole. People need to get over this semantic crap and just try to enjoy a dungeon that has as much if not more content than the entirety of the coil.

Lastly just to poke.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

...no one cares if it is more content or less content than coil.

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Some people here are literally complaining about exactly this. How do you stand without that leg?

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Originally Posted by Worm

I cannot believe a thread by someone making posts like this is still standing. I said I think most people don't care, you think most people do care, have you taken the time to ask all the players?

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This thread is asking players what they think. No where did I say I believe most people think like me. I am asking in the OP for peoples opinion. All you did was voice your opinion and assumed it was what most people feel.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

You know what is also not in at the launch of the raids?

The Crystal Tower. It makes for pretty background, but man, I can't wait until that Crystal Tower gets included in the Crystal Tower. I can see it now: A little crystal, some towers...You'd think that would be important to put in when you're calling a raid "Crystal Tower."

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If you would have bothered to read the quests and watch the cutscenes, you would know that we're in the process of accessing the tower.

Notice the current raid is called "Labryinth of the Ancients"? We're simply making progress past the security systems put in place.

Calm down.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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Excuse me for seeing the videos for one place and not immediately assuming it is some other place entirely. I kept seeing Crystal Tower being advertised. I suppose next time a new raid is announced, say, new turns for the Binding Coils, I'll remember in my head "wait Kall! Remember the Crystal Tower! Clearly they mean the not-so-dangerous cornfields of the Site B entrance for the Binding Coils, just outside of Castle Oriens. Why, they're so intrinsically linked, they have to be the same thing!"

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Originally Posted by Xerich

If you would have bothered to read the quests and watch the cutscenes, you would know that we're in the process of accessing the tower.

Notice the current raid is called "Labryinth of the Ancients"? We're simply making progress past the security systems put in place.

Calm down.

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I'm sorry, When one advertises a specific location for raiding to be available in an update, i'm of the opinion that the location at least start to be available on the update.

In other words, when one releases content calling it "The Crystal Tower", you include content that includes your Crystal Tower. You don't leave it out for later, or if you have to, you call it something you are putting in. As it stands, this is a artwork with just the sketch. Our Crystal Tower lacks Crystal Tower.

Revolutionary stuff, I know.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Excuse me for seeing the videos for one place and not immediately assuming it is some other place entirely. I kept seeing Crystal Tower being advertised..."

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The tower and the Labyrinth are the same structure. You're just splitting hairs. If I'm on a boat and I stand on the bridge is that somehow not part of the boat? Just because it has a different name does not make it any less a part of the same overall structure. All you give a damn about is nomenclature. That has absolutely nothing to do with the 4 boss long dungeon that we got. If it was in the tower or in a giant hole in the ground does nothing to change the fact the content contains several loot drops, fun trash mob sections, and several fun bosses. Nomenclature is NOT content. Only the content is content. Everyone is too hell bent on simply splitting hairs.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The tower and the Labyrinth are the same structure. You're just splitting hairs. If I'm on a boat and I stand on the bridge is that somehow not part of the boat? Just because it has a different name does not make it any less a part of the same overall structure. All you give a damn about is nomenclature. That has absolutely nothing to do with the 4 boss long dungeon that we got. If it was in the tower or in a giant hole in the ground does nothing to change the fact the content contains several loot drops, fun trash mob sections, and several fun bosses. Nomenclature is NOT content. Only the content is content. Everyone is too hell bent on simply splitting hairs.

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We'll if they weren't going to include the crystal tower then why call it crystal tower? They advertised more than they delivered for 2.1, that is the problem. And it is the loot mechanics more than anything that will cause this content to last. People will run this dungeon because they can only get 1 item a week from it.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I am asking in the OP for peoples opinion. All you did was voice your opinion and assumed it was what most people feel.

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Honestly the level of semantics here is staggering. I guess I'll just need to stop communicating with people earlier when they pull this stuff in the future, but there's a distinct difference between saying "I think most people don't care" and saying "I know most people don't care". I can think most people don't care (and be wrong, who cares) and draw that conclusion based on previous experience with MMOs or the fact that most of the people in here who agree with you are flailing over semantics and esoteric points about what really qualifies as the real Crystal Tower.

This idea that I can't have an opinion on whether people care about this or not without knowing everyone else's opinion is simply crazy. I tend to think if many people were bothered by this then better and more coherent representatives of your point of view would have to show up. Even though I disagree you you've nearly compelled me to simply start pretending I agree and arguing your point for you so you'll have access arguments that make sense, rather than hyperbole like "oh you think people don't care, well have you asked each of them?"

edit: Does editing a post paginate the thread at some point?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

We'll if they weren't going to include the crystal tower then why call it crystal tower? They advertised more than they delivered for 2.1, that is the problem. And it is the loot mechanics more than anything that will cause this content to last. People will run this dungeon because they can only get 1 item a week from it.

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In no way did they advertise for more than they delivered. Before it launched they told us very specifically that more content would come in later patches. Specifically every other patch would add to the CT. If this didn't make it abundantly clear to you that the entirety of the tower wasn't to be included then I know of no cure for your version of obliviousness to the obvious. You're argument completely hinges on the fact that the part of the tower we have access to is called the Labyrinth of the Ancients. I don't know about most people here but when I goto Disney World I know it's a giant superstructure that in it's entirety is called Disney World. Epcot is Disney World, The Magic Kingdom is Disney World, etc etc. Just because I goto the magic kingdom does not mean I failed to goto Disney World just because it has a different name. The labyrinth and the tower are part of one super structure unanimously known as "The Crystal Tower." Get over the nomenclature because it isn't helping make the argument any better. It doesn't change the content. It doesn't change anything.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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Look, I agree with Lolo, ok? I wasn't satisfied with what was offered up and advertised all the way up to 2.1 as "The Crystal Tower." I wasn't satisfied with a lot in 2.1. If you want to claim that technically in the right light after playing FF3 you were adventuring inside the Crystal Tower in FFXIV, go right ahead, but I did not get that experience. Not last week, this week, or now.

To be fair, how strong of an argument is it that in order to be satisfied with the content this game I have to play other games before it? Shouldn't Eorzea be able to stand on its own as a game?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Look, I agree with Lolo, ok? I wasn't satisfied with what was offered up and advertised all the way up to 2.1 as "The Crystal Tower." I wasn't satisfied with a lot in 2.1. If you want to claim that technically in the right light after playing FF3 you were adventuring inside the Crystal Tower, go right ahead, but I did not get that experience. Not last week, this week, or now.

To be fair, how strong of an argument is it that in order to be satisfied with the content this game I have to play other games before it? Shouldn't Eorzea be able to stand on its own as a game?

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This is the exact problem. You aren't arguing about the content. You're arguing about a name. You aren't talking about the 4 bosses or the loot or the dungeon contents or pacing or anything like that at all. You aren't talking about the actual content what-so-ever. All you care about is the name. You want to discuss the content? Then discuss the actual content because so far all you're doing is splitting hairs about the specific title. It comes across as very petty.

Lastly, I never played FF3. I never played the original tower. In no way, shape, or form has that hindered my enjoyment of FFXIV's tower what-so-ever. The lore as presented works great in FFXIV and it stands on its own.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

This is the exact problem. You aren't arguing about the content. You're arguing about a name. You aren't talking about the 4 bosses or the loot or the dungeon contents or pacing or anything like that at all. You aren't talking about the actual content what-so-ever. All you care about is the name. You want to discuss the content? Then discuss the actual content because so far all you're doing is splitting hairs about the specific title. It comes across as very petty.

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I. Was not. Satisfied. With. The Content. There was not enough of it. I am ALSO not satisfied that we must wait 6 months before actually going inside the Crystal Tower in content advertised as "Crystal Tower." Why? Because, In my opinion, there was not enough content.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I. Was not. Satisfied. With. The Content. There was not enough of it. I am ALSO not satisfied that we must wait 6 months before actually going inside the Crystal Tower in content advertised as "Crystal Tower." Why? Because, In my opinion, there was not enough content.

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That's still not a discussion about the content. It's simply voicing displeasure that there wasn't more. News flash. Players always want more content. That doesn't mean you stating the obvious counts as a content discussion. Talk about the bosses. The quality of the drops. The particular fight mechanics of the fights. All of that would be a content discussion because it's about the actual content. You're just whining because you feel entitled to more for some childish reason.

For a pay to play mmo, there is way too little content and not enough to do with what we have. There is barely any gear, it's... ugh. Then you have people defending it like FFXI was their only mmo and they have no experience with anything else on the market. CT should have been there at launch... we're getting launch content and then told to wait nine months to get a continuation floor of a dungeon. It's depressing...

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

In no way did they advertise for more than they delivered. Before it launched they told us very specifically that more content would come in later patches. Specifically every other patch would add to the CT.

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They showed images of the inside of the Crystal Tower, not just the Ancient Maze. That is advertising what was not put into 2.1.

Also the Ancient Maze does not equal Crystal Tower. The Ancient Maze is around the tower with a grassy area separating it from the Crystal Tower. When you finish the Ancient Maze in FFIII you are shown on the world map between the Ancient Maze and the Crystal Tower. You can even save your game while you are on the map at the spot. It is a separate building. It is not like Eureka which is part of the Crystal Tower since it is inside of it.

Those of you defending this - Did you know? Yoshi stated Crystal Tower would be so huge that you have to save progress in between sessions (note: play sessions, not 3-6 month span updates)? If LoTA is "The Crystal Tower as well", he needs a different definition of huge.

Worm - You say people argue semantics, I bet your response would be: "Well he didn't say "at release".." he also didn't say LoTA would be the only part of CT released now, they delayed it 5 months, they could have released more since all they did was rebalance it to make it DFable. Honestly though, now that they admit they're behind schedule that plan also likely changed.

Sorry- these "LoTA is "technically" part of the Crystal Tower" statements are really strainin to do some splainin' as to why we were sold a Crystal Tower raid... and we aren't in the Tower.

LoTA is actually something I expected to be an unlocking 4 man quest type thing to be that setup the raid story- I did NOT think it would BE the raid. As far as "but we knew it would be incrementally released".

Ok fine, but for a dungeon that was supposed to be ready at release, I expected to get to the TOWER. Sure, maybe there would be unaccessable upper floors to be released.... maybe other "spires" released later- whatever. I did not expect a tiny little 4 bosses with a cutscene that literally shows you looking at the FOOT of the TOWER... saying "Man it sure would be cool to be able to go there!"

-"But Cid, TECHNICALLY we are in the tower now!"

Cid: No- that is the tower right there.... through that window... see it? See that huge tower? That's the tower. We are here, not there.

Cid: Looks like we were wrong guys, this isn't a Hero of Light... turns out he/she is really kind of a derp. Better start looking for a new hero.