And so begins the Vote-kick abuse

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yukiba

how did they vote kick? Thought you couldnt vote kick when you entered a duty with a friend

---

No, you can't do Commendations when entering a Duty with a friend.

This pretty much means whenever someone asks you what you rolled you should always lie with a very small number. There are 3 possible outcomes:

1. They think you're lying and kick you (and if they're that paranoid they should've just kicked you without asking).
2. They fall for it, you win, and then get kicked.
3. They fall for it, but you didn't win. But since they asked for your roll, it probably means they need you in some way anyway. If not, these jerks probably will be quitting after they win anyway, so the fact that you showed your hand doesn't matter, because the jerks will either be kicking you or quitting most of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashgarth

From Reddit:



http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._kick_feature/

---

This is a punishable offense. Report them for cheating.

Indeed, please report them and if possible, tell us of their fate.

honestly? since we were talking about CT specifically, I'd probably tell them a fake 'reasonable' number and hope whoever wants the item has a higher number (I'd probably say 20-something)
and then I quit the run after loot distribution, no matter if I won or not. when someone asks then they OBVIOUSLY want .my. loot, and I don't 'roll' like that. since I plan on only running endgame with at least a tank or healer friend of mine, they can see how that goes. since CT has loot-lockouts, this is of course a special case.

not sure how I'd handle this in other instances.

You all got trolled. Rolls only happen once everyone has hit Need or Greed... meaning you don't know your roll till the item has been given out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowDan

You all got trolled. Rolls only happen once everyone has hit Need or Greed... meaning you don't know your roll till the item has been given out.

---

Uh... no? It only shows up in the chat log when everyone has need/greed/passed, but you can check the Loot window to see what number you rolled superimposed over the icon of the loot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kletian

Indeed, please report them and if possible, tell us of their fate.

---

GMs won't tell you fates, but pretty sure they'd auto short term ban for this.

Thank you for your input on the vote dismiss feature. The dev. team is currently discussing countermeasures against potential misuses of the system.

Additionally, as stated in the 2.1 patch notes, any abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment. We ask that users submit a GM report should you come across any situation where the vote dismiss feature is being misused.

@Hvinire, I have a question in regard to GM tickets... so I was one of those people who was affected by the CT "forced-loot" mishap... I couldn't for the life of me figure out a general "let me talk to a GM, I have a game problem" ticket-submission... what are we supposed to use in those cases?

Off-Topic: Any chance affected players who reported this specific issue in a timely manner will be afforded a second Loot Allowance one week to be used on a separate run for the week? I ran CT like 6 times in full (zero monk drops) only to be screwed over by the forced-loot problem. I ran it another time before the lockout just in case if a MNK piece dropped, I could use that as leverage for my request to swap out the piece that was forced upon me for the one that got all-passed (b/c I couldn't roll)... well Fuma Gloves dropped that run & got all-passed, I would love a simple exchange of the suit of Onion Armor for the Fuma Gloves as fair compensation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenholt

I wonder how many times such thing happens in the JP community. Not saying they're better than us, but we westerns know how to be 5-star douches. :)

---

"Not saying they're better than us, but they are better than us"

@Hvinire, my two cents: I think you guys should just make it so that a Vote-Kick cannot be enacted/completed during a loot-roll until item(s) are won & placed into players' inventories.

Simple, easy solution.

As well, idk if you guys have noticed, but players like the idea of "forced-loot" for traditional dungeons as opposed to CT (e.g. if party members leave without rolling, you auto-win the piece rather than having to wait around 300 seconds).

Actually if you were going to make it based off the rolls it would have not allow kicking of someone who has rolled on an item, but if they have not rolled at all it should allow.

Also one of the better counter measures would be to allow a single person in the party other than the one being kicked to dismiss the vote kick as abuse and have it canceled. That way you only need one person with a brain working that doesn't just mindlessly click yes to to vote kicking anyone.

Doesn't this situation just point out how mindless the other members are for not realising the person was playing and gets kicked because the others are not even paying attention.

Also it would have been a lot smarter to only have the vote kick options be afk only that way you can't just lie and say someone was subjectively harassing you when that is hard to prove and disprove in a translated game.

Quote:

---

Gesser:
As well, idk if you guys have noticed, but players like the idea of "forced-loot" for traditional dungeons as opposed to CT (e.g. if party members leave without rolling, you auto-win the piece rather than having to wait around 300 seconds).

---

Um people are correct about the mechanics being dysfunctional when it comes to giving you loot you never rolled on, it should quickly give you the item IF you "ROLLED" on it, but it should wait out the timer of 300 secs to let you decide with or without the other party members if you have not rolled on the item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coffeepotz

Oh no! Alert SE. I'm sure this will lead to the immediate removal of the feature. I'm super cereal.

---

^^ heh. There's always one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowDan

You all got trolled. Rolls only happen once everyone has hit Need or Greed... meaning you don't know your roll till the item has been given out.

---

ehm NO , u can see your roll on the loot window , open the window again after rolling and u will see the number on the item icon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your input on the vote dismiss feature. The dev. team is currently discussing countermeasures against potential misuses of the system.

Additionally, as stated in the 2.1 patch notes, any abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment. We ask that users submit a GM report should you come across any situation where the vote dismiss feature is being misused.

---

One thing that would be great is to have a feature on who actually initiated the Vote. Because when your kicked it doesn't say anything except you were voted out. And it is hard to tell who did the kicking when you try and do a GM call.


Edit I don't think its would be fair to report everyone in your party even though it only takes a few to confirm the vote. Never had to use the GM system for it. just know it doesn't tell you who initiates it.


EDIT again.

Well since some players aren't happy with it at all how about a feature with all the players who voted yes.

For me the vote kick system is the worst thought out part in this game ,for me it's not loot like the op but more to do cut scenes. I have 2 level 50 characters and neither of them have actually seen the last 3 main cut scenses not just the story as I know you can view that at your inn room, but the fighting parts first of it just caused a major row with half the raid this was before the vote kick was introduced and the rest kept silent and the last time last week I was threatened with being vote kicked by 5 out of the 8 as there was 3 of us wanting to see the cut scenes. so what choice did I/we have,I had already been queuing for close to 2 hours....as the fc I am in there are not many online at once and not the needed classes either.

I hate this system SE should of been able to work into the vote kick system when players are viewing the cut scenes.

For me now I am on the verge of just not renewing my sub after April (6 month sub) as I will not be threatened,bullied due to trying to actually enjoy the game. in case peeps ask I make a new separate character per class as I like a change and not over fond of fate grinding.

Shame really something that suppose to sort out afk players is ruining the game for others ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkista

One thing that would be great is to have a feature on who actually initiated the Vote. Because when your kicked it doesn't say anything except you were voted out. And it is hard to tell who did the kicking when you try and do a GM call.


Edit I don't think its would be fair to report everyone in your party even though it only takes a few to confirm the vote. Never had to use the GM system for it. just know it doesn't tell you who initiates it.

---

Well...

from OP story in 1st post, it is really clear that the other 7 party members (or should I say, the rest of party member still not leaving instance) are all guilty and in cahoots. Doesn't matter who's initiating it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avorniel

the last time last week I was threatened with being vote kicked by 5 out of the 8

---

it was wrong that they threatened u with vote kick, but no1 is forcing u to skip CS , if u get kicked because of it , report them.

but u waited 2h to enter the dungeon....so u agreed to skip cs in order to finish the dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobbinT

Well...

from OP story in 1st post, it is really clear that the other 7 party members (or should I say, the rest of party member still not leaving instance) are all guilty and in cahoots. Doesn't matter who's initiating it.

---

No that's not fair to say. I've been to parties where someone kicks another player and I click no. IDK how many have to vote yes in a 8 man party, but a 4 man party it only takes 2 so I would assume it only takes 4 for an 8 man party. So just because a few do it doesn't mean everyone did it. Like I did a Praet run the other day and we just got to Ultima and someone tried to kick someone it failed but there was no reason to kick anyone since all players were doing there job. I guess it was an accident as no one confessed to who tried to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

it was wrong that they threatened u with vote kick, but no1 is forcing u to skip CS , if u get kicked because of it , report them.

but u waited 2h to enter the dungeon....so u agreed to skip cs in order to finish the dungeon.

---

I agreed as in I just shut up and did what I needed to do, due to the queues ,doesn't make it right how many times do I have to keep trying to do the main stories to actually see the whole story,it just makes me sad that something so simple can cause so many issues to players who are trying to enjoy the game with either cut scenes or loot or even trying to learn your class.
I am surprised SE didn't see this coming before they added it in but then they didn't see how RMT would become ripe either even though other major MMO's have had the same issues..lol

I have heard of this happening, but what gets me is this: You cannot use the vote kick feature if you went in with a pre-made party. So if they initiated a vote to kick so their friend could get the drop, they had to be randomly paired with their friend by the DF. This seems unlikely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gokuhan

I have heard of this happening, but what gets me is this: You cannot use the vote kick feature if you went in with a pre-made party. So if they initiated a vote to kick so their friend could get the drop, they had to be randomly paired with their friend by the DF. This seems unlikely.

---

You can queue as anywhere from 2-8 people. The fact the kick vote worked makes it sound like they were at least half of the group. I remember hearing that there was a FC on Famfrit that was doing shady stuff like kicking the other tank to make sure their tank got the loot and they did it for like a couple weeks running - might be still at it for all I know.

What /I/ want to know is why SE was too lazy to implement a 'cannot vote to kick while loot is being rolled for' like WoW does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your input on the vote dismiss feature. The dev. team is currently discussing countermeasures against potential misuses of the system.

Additionally, as stated in the 2.1 patch notes, any abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment. We ask that users submit a GM report should you come across any situation where the vote dismiss feature is being misused.

---

I'd assume it's also considered misuse to kick someone to allow party to leave without penalty. How some of my FC members have been doing this is that they ask the target (the person they actually just want out), if it's okay for them to be kicked so nobody gets leave penalty. If they don't agree, they are kicked anyway because they are refusing to "leave" (saying that's griefing the party.)

I don't agree with this behavior at all.

I was in a PT once and a player was going all Leeroy on the allience on Atomos. It caused a wipe so the leader initiated vote kick under harrasment. I clicked no and it failed. I clicked no because I thought it could be solved by a simple discussion with the player. I was not sure what the player did was harassment, so of course I click no to kick. Later on he was on the wrong PT Vassago. Vote kick was initiated as offline. He was online so I clicked no, the vote kick still passed as too many others clicked yes. I said why did you guys kick him as he was online, the PT responded that his brain was offline. Does going Leeroy on the Allience count as Harassment? There are only 4 options but a lot more than 4 problems within parties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

I'd assume it's also considered misuse to kick someone to allow party to leave without penalty. How some of my FC members have been doing this is that they ask the target (the person they actually just want out), if it's okay for them to be kicked so nobody gets leave penalty. If they don't agree, they are kicked anyway because they are refusing to "leave" (saying that's griefing the party.)

I don't agree with this behavior at all.

---

Honestly, proven misuse in general should just be met with harsh consequences either on first offense (depending on severity) or upon second. And by harsh, I mean just total removal of account, no questions asked. Should it be a case of being hacked (which would be unusual on its own for this reason), be it a lie or not, they could go through CS to retrieve. That alone should be more than enough of a deterrent for people to abuse the system.

I was in a DF party for Garuda Extreme. One of the tank said it was their first time and admitted they haven't watched any youtube clip about it. Everyone else in the party wasn't pleased by this, but most wanted to give it a try anyways. However, one of our healers decided to run in and MPK the party. Afterwards, he/she asked us to vote kick him/her. They proceeded to do it a few more times. A vote kick was initiated and did not pass because a couple of us did not want to reward their griefing with what they wanted. Eventually the vote kick passed after some argument and everyone left. I reported that player. Now that's an abuse of the system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gokuhan

I have heard of this happening, but what gets me is this: You cannot use the vote kick feature if you went in with a pre-made party. So if they initiated a vote to kick so their friend could get the drop, they had to be randomly paired with their friend by the DF. This seems unlikely.

---

This is either false or bugged since I've used the /votekick feature a few times in dungeons I've entered with LS mates.

that's nice n all but literally 99% of my GM tickets have been

"thanks for contacting us, we can't help you, bye"

do the GM's even do anything in this game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkista

No that's not fair to say. I've been to parties where someone kicks another player and I click no. IDK how many have to vote yes in a 8 man party, but a 4 man party it only takes 2 so I would assume it only takes 4 for an 8 man party. So just because a few do it doesn't mean everyone did it. Like I did a Praet run the other day and we just got to Ultima and someone tried to kick someone it failed but there was no reason to kick anyone since all players were doing there job. I guess it was an accident as no one confessed to who tried to do it.

---

I don't know...

For something like this, and even with big abuse-warning, if there's even someone who vote against the idea and lose over the majority, he/she should already felt this is really wrong and especially (again) because of the warning. Usually these person would be compelled to help the victim.

But still... we're talking about votes here, and if there's 7 players, it needs at least 4 vote to commence the kicking. And if the reason only because of gameplay, I don't think it would cause major problem. We're talking about abuse for controlling loot here. And this is not just an issue anymore.

And with no one from that 7 players coming up and helping clear this problem, it is obvious that they all agree STEALING a player's chance for the loot. Until there's even 1 good conscience player from that party step up and clarify this, don't even try to defend those who you would say were voting against.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your input on the vote dismiss feature. The dev. team is currently discussing countermeasures against potential misuses of the system.

Additionally, as stated in the 2.1 patch notes, any abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment. We ask that users submit a GM report should you come across any situation where the vote dismiss feature is being misused.

---

Observation: No where is it mentioned that vote kicking for poor performance is against the rules.

Statement: Thank you Hvinire for the clarification.

Question. How do you know your roll number? I always think that it doesn't show up until the loot is decided that who get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hvinire

Thank you for your input on the vote dismiss feature. The dev. team is currently discussing countermeasures against potential misuses of the system.

Additionally, as stated in the 2.1 patch notes, any abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered harassment. We ask that users submit a GM report should you come across any situation where the vote dismiss feature is being misused.

---

Another situation where Vote Kick is misused is when people use it to kick out a consenting player in order to avoid suffering penalty when agreeing to end prematurely a failing instance run. Can't we have a "vote to abandon instance" option for this instead? Choosing to abandon an instance in Duty Finder has always been a problem for cases when everyone agrees this is the best course of action, someone always has to take the bullet. The vote-kick workaround is a really poor solution as it implies falsely accusing someone of harassment or other unpleasant things to carry out.

i'd like to point out that if SE sets it up so that vote kick cant be done after chests popped or rolling takes place, it will open the door for people to vote kick you after a boss is killed but before a chest is even popped to still increase the chances of only their crew getting said loot. So, maybe set it up that after a major boss is killed vote kick cannot be used at all, an in the case of mid-bosses like in CT or any regular dungeon, vote kick cant be used until after 5-10 mins of everyone using the shortcut to continue to next area of said dungeon, or possibly after all loot has been distributed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xayoc

Observation: No where is it mentioned that vote kicking for poor performance is against the rules.

Statement: Thank you Hvinire for the clarification.

---

No where in the list of choices is it stated you are allowed to either. Abuse can easily be seen as any use that doesn't fit the listed choices. You're basically trying to say that because it's not explicitly disallowed, that it's 100% ok. I can do the same and say that because it's not explicitly allowed, ie not in the choices for kick, it's 100% not ok.

Both aren't prefect arguments, but one has more grounds than the other.

I dunno, perhaps I am naive in saying this but if they voted to kick him based on his roll so they could collect the loot he would have won, that means other[s], at least more than half of the people in the party had to conspire and add their vote too? I wonder what they chose as a reason for dismissal.

See red highlights below for what I am referring to.
The rules for vote dismiss, from the patch notes:

Quote:

---

The Vote Dismiss function has been added.

Players who are absent for extended periods or harass others can now be democratically expelled from the party.

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/038...c43828a_47.png

To initiate a vote, first select Party Members from the Social section of the main menu. Next, select the party member you wish to nominate for dismissal, then Vote Dismiss from the submenu. When vote dismiss is initiated, party members will be prompted for their response. If more than half vote Yes, the player in question will be dismissed from the party.

* 4 hours must elapse since your last successful use of vote dismiss before you can initiate another. (revised 12/18/2013)
* You will be required to select a reason for dismissal. Please be warned that unjustified usage of vote dismiss is a punishable act.
* Please wait at least five minutes before using Vote Dismiss on a player who has logged out.

---

Another example of (semi-)abuse of the vote kick feature - I've seen lately MANY entries in the Party Finder with comment like "Kick after first fail / wipe" - that's first of all VERY annoying and discouraging and I'd never join such group and it's also IMHO missuse of the feature as you're being "pre-emptivelly" harrased / threatened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alise

Question. How do you know your roll number? I always think that it doesn't show up until the loot is decided that who get it.

---

As already mentioned a few times here - it's overlays your roll number over the item(s) in the loot window - just re-open it to check if you've not managed to read the number initially.

Kinda begin to be pissed off about people that don't let newcomers learn a fight and immediately leave after dyin a 2nd or 3rd time in primals EX.

All they ask is to get kicked because they don't have any patience, it really need to get banned pretty seriously, it's really, really ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Kinda begin to be pissed off about people that don't let newcomers learn a fight and immediately leave after dyin a 2nd or 3rd time in primals EX.

All they ask is to get kicked because they don't have any patience, it really need to get banned pretty seriously, it's really, really ridiculous.

---

ya but what about when you explain something 4 times and they still dont listen like doing CM todays and the DDs would just refuse to use the damn cannons and during boss fight wouldnt use the cannons and try to fight the chick on the armor themselves and dont pull the adds to the damn center and wipe 3 times i think its justified.

Another abuse of the vote kick system I have seen is that players who think they are exceptional and shouldn't be in a group that fails once ask the group to be kicked so they get around the DF lockout for leaving the instance. I for once never vote them out and love when they get mad about it lol.

For me it is just no reason. U wanna leave because you feel superior to the group and can't be arsed to be in a group with lesser experience that needs several attempts? Don't do DF roulette but use the Party finder. But don't expect to be able to disband the group without getting any penalties like it is the most normal thing in the World.