Is Twintania even doable without a virus rotation?

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Originally Posted by Dorin

What am I reading.

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I didn't realize that people really can't read sarcasm on the internet until just now.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

That is wrong way. They are FORCING people to invite WAR. Forcing people to play a certain style NEVER WRONG.

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Your tears are dlicious, like no one ever told me that I should stop leveling war and level pld instead since they're not wanted endgame. Its the holiday season and I'm hearing Rudolph the red nosed reindeer playing in my head, but with warrior stuck in there instead of Rudolph.

*then one foggy raiding night the FC commander came to say, Warrior with your 10% DR... won't you tank twintiania tonight?! (then all the party members loved him)

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

Your tears are dlicious, like no one ever told me that I should stop leveling war and level pld instead since they're not wanted endgame. Its the holiday season and I'm hearing Rudolph the red nosed reindeer playing in my head, but with warrior stuck in there instead of Rudolph.

*then one foggy raiding night the FC commander came to say, Warrior with your 10% DR... won't you tank twintiania tonight?! (then all the party members loved him)

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This is actually brilliant.

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

Actually, a WAR will provide more than just the 10% dmg debuff. He will also be the fifth dps which will be very useful for all the dps check phases. He will surely make things a lot easier in T5 but it's still doable with 2 PLD. Just like how T2 is doable without a bard. No one is forcing you to bring a WAR along.

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Where have you read/seen info that demonstrates WAR is a superior DPS to PLD?

EDIT: If you're a tank, you can get the job done perfectly fine as PLD or WAR.
Who are these people that think leveling a job to 50 is some steep mountain that requires herculan effort?
If you can't tank as PLD post update, you should have never been on the job in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Why, so melee can get one shot by aoe? No thanks, no one will take the ehhhh Drg into instance. In fact, Mnk is getting too powerful, much more than drg. Is this not encouraging class stacking?

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MNK and DRG both specialize in either sustained(mnk) or burst damage(drg).

DRG brings amazing burst damage for situations that require it. They also give Piercing resistance reduction for themselves and for BRDs. Whenever there is a fight where hate management is harder on the tank(i.e. Turn 2, left path), DRGs shine over MNK because they have a means to reduce their enmity. DRGs do not suffer as hard as mnk when a particular mechanic in an instance stops fighting. DRGs also have better aoe capability than MNK(mnk still has good aoe <.<).

MNK does sustained damage and in most cases do more damage than any other job. They bring Dragon Kick debuff into fights lowering blunt resistance for themselves while also applying a -10%int reduction to the target. MNKs are also capable of silencing(solo-silencing). MNKs bring their enhanced Mantra which increases healing to those buffed with it by 20%(via spells).

They both inherently have great mobility and gab closing skills, especially in 2.1(dat Shoulder Tackle tho).

Overall, each job has their utilities and do not encourage job stacking.

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

Your tears are dlicious, like no one ever told me that I should stop leveling war and level pld instead since they're not wanted endgame. Its the holiday season and I'm hearing Rudolph the red nosed reindeer playing in my head, but with warrior stuck in there instead of Rudolph.

*then one foggy raiding night the FC commander came to say, Warrior with your 10% DR... won't you tank twintiania tonight?! (then all the party members loved him)

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It will be your tear that I will be enjoying with popcorn with turn 4 and 5 suddenly becoming harder and people dying over and over again.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

When you cast it on top of an existing virus? Not a new one.

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Correct. Casting it again while it's already in effect just replaces the last effect with yours, last i checked, unless they're changing it now.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

It will be your tear that I will be enjoying with popcorn with turn 4 and 5 suddenly becoming harder and people dying over and over again.

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Sorry Xellos, won't be my tears personally, by the time I'm ready for coil the balance might change again, but if things stayed the same as you want then to, I would never see coil anyway since no one will take a war tank unless they know you very well. I play what I like because I know one day I'll have my time in the sun, even if its brief I'll have it eventually.

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Originally Posted by Royze

Where have you read/seen info that demonstrates WAR is a superior DPS to PLD?

EDIT: If you're a tank, you can get the job done perfectly fine as PLD or WAR.
Who are these people that think leveling a job to 50 is some steep mountain that requires herculan effort?
If you can't tank as PLD post update, you should have never been on the job in the first place.

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MNK is going to wreck T4/T5.
Dreadnaughts are going to die a lot faster and Turn 5's are going to be that much easier with MNKs (providing they don't get conflaged to hell)

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

Your tears are dlicious, like no one ever told me that I should stop leveling war and level pld instead since they're not wanted endgame. Its the holiday season and I'm hearing Rudolph the red nosed reindeer playing in my head, but with warrior stuck in there instead of Rudolph.

*then one foggy raiding night the FC commander came to say, Warrior with your 10% DR... won't you tank twintiania tonight?! (then all the party members loved him)

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Oh god, someone make a Rudolph-themed WAR song. NOW!

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Originally Posted by ufufu

Along with the other WAR changes and the Lustrate buff, quite frankly I think I might prefer to heal a Warrior MTing Twin.

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Lustrate is the same on WAR as it is on PLD. Stoneskin is the same too.

When comparing the two classes, just assume that Shield Oath provides 25% extra HP and 25% bonus healing. The math works out like that for all intents and purposes that currently exist in the game (well, at least as I'm aware of them).

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

That is wrong way. They are FORCING people to invite WAR. Forcing people to play a certain style NEVER WRONG.

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Both classes are good. PLD provides the Halone debuff that reduces STR (and physical damage as a result) and can block. WAR provides storm's path which reduces damage.

It may be better to have the PLD MT and the WAR OT providing both storm's eye & storm's path while he DPS. We don't know the duration on storm's path yet, but it's likely that you won't be able to maintain both buffs while tanking unless you severely gimp your enmity generation.

Even more self-congratulating for what I decided nearly a month ago, before reaching 50. :P

ITT: People who have never killed Twintania discuss how to kill Twintania.

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Originally Posted by Thriar

There's more ways to mitigate damage than just virus and RoD. The other ways will just be used more frequently. I might actually use Eos now...

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People use Selene?

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Is that sarcasm?

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He's being 100% serious, shits impossible dude.

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Originally Posted by Kresciel

People use Selene?

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Hello. I'm maining a SCH and I already killed twitania many times (I guess you can check my achievements/characted ID/whathever).

I'm succesfully organizing and managing a team of competent static players with which we clear coil in around 1 hour, from turn1 to 5, and we kill Twintania 1/1.

I'm not interested in e-peening but I wanted to tell you this because, I use Selene. And I could point you lots of good reasons for using Selene instead of Eos, but I won't.

I'm sure your sarcastic sentence that I liked to quote is coming from a person, that like me, cleared all the current game content as SCH withouth problems (oh yeah, I even own the Twintania's Book btw).


Back on the original topic:

The virus nerf alongside the RoD nerf will definitely provide a challenge. I was already providing my main tank ALSO sacred soil, pre-adoloquim and stoneskin, to make everything easier, let's see what happens now.

warrior should be able to keep up the damage debuff from storm's path fairly easily
and scholar can still sacred soil every one of them

the only real problem is the every now and then she stacks death sentence, the bellyflop, and an auto attack at same time. which can do some scary damage even with virus knocking off 15% of it

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Originally Posted by Noll

I'm not interested in e-peening but I wanted to tell you this because, I use Selene. And I could point you lots of good reasons for using Selene instead of Eos, but I won't.

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No, I'm interested. Please tell me. I don't really see the benefit of 1.1 seconds off the GCD with the server lag and input delays.

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Originally Posted by Kresciel

No, I'm interested. Please tell me. I don't really see the benefit of 1.1 seconds off the GCD with the server lag and input delays.

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What can look like a small buff for a single person, is a great buff for 8x people. Selene can constantly keep up a rotation of two buffs, that scales well with gears (because it's based on your current skillspeed/spellspeed).
A 30% buff on spellspeed increases both your healing efficency, the whm healing efficency, and the blms/smns dps. The 30% buff on skillspeed increases the physical dps output etc...
You're trading that for an unnecessary aoe regen (I say unnecessary because the cooldown is definitely too long), and useless magic def buff. The only good thing that Eos adds is the cure potency buff. So your choiche is now: Do I want to improve the overall performance of the entire party by using selene or just the healers for a small portion of the fight?

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Originally Posted by Houston009

MNK and DRG both specialize in either sustained(mnk) or burst damage(drg).

DRG brings amazing burst damage for situations that require it. They also give Piercing resistance reduction for themselves and for BRDs. Whenever there is a fight where hate management is harder on the tank(i.e. Turn 2, left path), DRGs shine over MNK because they have a means to reduce their enmity. DRGs do not suffer as hard as mnk when a particular mechanic in an instance stops fighting. DRGs also have better aoe capability than MNK(mnk still has good aoe <.<).

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What he said... Drg vs Mnk is much like Blm vs Smn... they do similar things but they go about them differently. Drg/Blm has the burst while Mnk/Smn has the damage over time. Drg has great synergy with Brd and Brd is something pretty much every raid group runs with. Mnk currently has no class that match up with them well.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I didn't realize that people really can't read sarcasm on the internet until just now.

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When you directly deny sarcasm in a written message, it isn't sarcasm anymore. There isn't something such as nonverbal communication on the internet, genius.

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Originally Posted by Noll

What can look like a small buff for a single person, is a great buff for 8x people. Selene can constantly keep up a rotation of two buffs, that scales well with gears (because it's based on your current skillspeed/spellspeed).
A 30% buff on spellspeed increases both your healing efficency, the whm healing efficency, and the blms/smns dps. The 30% buff on skillspeed increases the physical dps output etc...
You're trading that for an unnecessary aoe regen (I say unnecessary because the cooldown is definitely too long), and useless magic def buff. The only good thing that Eos adds is the cure potency buff. So your choiche is now: Do I want to improve the overall performance of the entire party by using selene or just the healers for a small portion of the fight?

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Thanks for the response. I've rarely used Selene and never really seen another SCH used Selene, but maybe I'll try her out more.

That depends on the fight a bit though Rochet. While MNK isn't increasing overall DPS of another class like the DRG debuff is, the reduction in damage on magic based attacks from maintaining Dragon kick is a pretty handy defensive trick that benefits the whole party unless it's possible to 100% dodge it. (Even if the attack only targets the tank, keeping tanks alive still benefits the whole party)

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Originally Posted by Kresciel

Thanks for the response. I've rarely used Selene and never really seen another SCH used Selene, but maybe I'll try her out more.

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Don't bother. It doesn't matter. No content in this game actually requires that you know how to play your class to it's fullest potential. You're only there to lustrate the tank and help the WHM slightly by keeping the tank topped off with Adloquium. Maybe with this virus nerf I'll actually be able to stay awake.

selene is pretty much universally the better choice for everything that doesn't require constant interrupts since she will find a way to click back into full auto and screw with the DR

Pretty much buffing half your party 100% of the time is just so nice compared to the things eos does and the heal is exactly the same

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Originally Posted by Nihility

selene is pretty much universally the better choice for everything that doesn't require constant interrupts since she will find a way to click back into full auto and screw with the DR

Pretty much buffing half your party 100% of the time is just so nice compared to the things eos does and the heal is exactly the same

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Why would selene mess up a fight that requires constant interrupts? She has a silence correct? Silence is 100% unaffected by Diminishing Returns.

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Is Twintania even doable without a virus rotation?

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It's pretty random whether Twintania decides to one-shot your Tank or not. Virus helps in reducing the chances of being one-shotted. However, it's certainly possible to roll the dice and still be able to defeat Twintania without maximized damage mitagation.

Death Sentence seems to do anywhere from 500 - 10000 damage. Sometimes it doesn't even break the tanks Stoneskin. Sometimes even with Shield Oath, Rampart, Rage of Halone, Stoneskin, Virus, and a Vitality Potion the tank will still die.

It's a horrible RNG mechanic to be sure. Though if your tank is sporting full i90 gear in the non-accessory slots the chances of this happening are reduced immensely. A virus rotation is no longer so important.

Patch 2.1: Save your Virus for when your Tank says he has no cool downs left for the next Death Sentence.

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Originally Posted by Seshayn

Why would selene mess up a fight that requires constant interrupts? She has a silence correct? Silence is 100% unaffected by Diminishing Returns.

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doesn't it mess with stun's DR? seems like any time i forget to switch her out on something like ifrit or ADS problems arise with the stunners. I guess it could be a long chain of coincidences

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Originally Posted by Kresciel

People use Selene?

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I am slowly stopping to use Eos....
No need for her AoE heal when a WHM is around and no need for the mp regen when Bard around
Skill speed+ and Spell speed+ and Silence? yes, thank you

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Originally Posted by Nihility

doesn't it mess with stun's DR? seems like any time i forget to switch her out on something like ifrit or ADS problems arise with the stunners. I guess it could be a long chain of coincidences

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Silences don't share or affect DR on any abilities, so keep that selene pumping those DPS full of delicious Fairy-Drugs so you get those boss kills faster >:3

If something messed up stuns on Ifrit or Silences on ADS it was most certainly NOT your selene! Sounds like a DPS or TANK didn't admit their mistake D:

given twintania has been tanked 100% by a 2.0 WAR in more than one group (some running 2x WAR) which I am sure was using virus, i'm 99.9% sure it will be doable in 2.1 with either a war or a pld without constant virus.

Will it be harder? sure, but if you think its not killable then your likely still under geared for turn 5.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

dont forget abour the Brd RoD nerf , PLDx2 means u lose -10% dmg (warrior)

pld , war, whm , sch , blm, 3 mnks , the problem is how Limit break nerf will work...maybe u wont have enough LB for snakes with that setup ....

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Finally ppl no longer need bard T^T

editted : and Summoner

No worries t0nni3, people will still need mp song.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

AND REMOVAL OF ROD. Amnd i been curious... does the one that call for adjust even been to turn 4-5?

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Actually, they didn´t remove Rain of Death, they just gave it to Warrior (see Storms Path).

So maybe now we have a good reason to bring a warrior along, Sounds good to me.

not to mention RoD is now an ocassional -100% dmg xD. it may be a very welcome addition

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

It will be your tear that I will be enjoying with popcorn with turn 4 and 5 suddenly becoming harder and people dying over and over again.

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the bitter is strong in this one

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Why, so melee can get one shot by aoe? No thanks, no one will take the ehhhh Drg into instance. In fact, Mnk is getting too powerful, much more than drg. Is this not encouraging class stacking?

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nice! my time machine broke today so I wasn't able to venture forth and compare the DPS of drgs and monks after the patch. Mind sharing those parser results with us? (btw target dummy numbers are for the sake of rotation not an indication of actual performance)

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

nice! my time machine broke today so I wasn't able to venture forth and compare the DPS of drgs and monks after the patch. Mind sharing those parser results with us? (btw target dummy numbers are for the sake of rotation not an indication of actual performance)

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280 dps for monk with all ilvl90 on the left and a couple of ilvl 90 accessories. Dragoon dps matches bards before patch which was around 220 i believe

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

280 dps for monk with all ilvl90 on the left and a couple of ilvl 90 accessories. Dragoon dps matches bards before patch which was around 220 i believe

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Was that on a dummy, or like a primal or something? those numbers seem pretty low :L

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Was that on a dummy, or like a primal or something? those numbers seem pretty low :L

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That one was based on a few titan runs yeah.