First article about the House pricing.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The thousands of people complaining about the prices compared to the small numbers defending them (with flawed arguments or no arguments at all) is a lot less subjective.

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Sorry, where are the "thousands of people"?

No offense, but pulling figures and facts from the ether isn't good journalism.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

the cost of FC housing isn't meant to be entirely shouldered by a single player.

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Yeah... on Balmung, even after the 50% decrease in 90 days, to get a large plot (just the plot, not the house), you'd have to have between 125-156 members contributing a million gil each. To get a plot anytime sooner than that will cost much more.

I can't think of more than 5-10 FCs on my server that possibly have that many members, and assuming for the sake of argument that their members are all mains with regular gil streams (not alts for RP or whatever), I still can't imagine more than a fraction of those players having more than a few 100k on hand. Maybe 1m, at which point theyd be donating their entire savings.

Indeed, most FC's I've seen of that size (not all, but most) are the kind of roflguilds that tend towards "invite first, ask questions later," so I can't imagine they'd have enough loyal players willing to cough up a million or more to fund this kind of venture.

So.. who exactly is going to be buying these?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

1/3 of 2.1 patch is for 1% of the population.
RMT and Hackers.

WOO!

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And for people that capitalized on echo drops exploit.

It's a dutch auction. Not everyone needs everything on day one.

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

Yeah... on Balmung, even after the 50% decrease in 90 days, to get a large plot (just the plot, not the house), you'd have to have between 125-156 members contributing a million gil each.

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I love how everyone firmly believes it will be *THEIR* guild getting that plot with "50% OFF" label.
Near the end of the 90-day price drop cycle everyone and their cat will be lining up to buy those plots cheap. Everyone. Meaning that plots in demand will be eyed by dozens of buyers, out of which one FC will get it and the others will have to wait at least ANOTHER 90 days until prices in the next copy of the housing zone (remember how Yoshi said new instances will only open up after old ones are full?) drop again. And again.
90 days? Unless you don't give a darn about where your FCs HQ is going to be, i.e. you're ready to settle for ANYTHING you were fast enough to purchase, you're looking at almost a year of waiting...

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

the cost of FC housing isn't meant to be entirely shouldered by a single player.

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No of course not, it was supposed to be 4-5 players according to Yoshi's gushing statements (made more than once) earlier.

It was on this basis that most players expected it to be at least within a small FC's ability to pay, not the mega-FCs-only-need-apply situation SE have created now.

The white knights on this thread and in the forums are getting a little annoying.

Nobody has wanted houses handed to them, but Yoshi gave us expectations of what housing would cost and players have planned accordingly. God forbid we should trust the owner of the game and take him at his word .... They even teased that housing trailer before showing housing being 800k....

Players expected about 800k for a small house, and around 5m for a large - as much as 15 or 20m. Something one player doesn't generally obtain on their own unless they had a lot leftover from 1.0.

Even a 20m house would be 200,000,000 1.0 money, which is a lot .... Even I only had 20m left after 1.0 relics.

My first thought on seeing the prices was "RMT companies must have thought Christmas has come early" I didn't think SE could shock me anymore than when they torpedoed Relics in FF11 with the release of Delve weapons but they managed it with housing. Those prices are so far out of reach for so much of the playerbase, all that development time to see deserted wards would be disappointing to say the least, or do they actually think people have that kind of money? that's a frightening thought, as is anyone who thinks this won't drive RMT profits soaring.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You should wait for the Ishgard housing zone. It's better if it's snowing.

Wait, considering the prices you'll probably have to wait anyway.

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I doubt Ishgard will ever open up for housing. I remember it being said in a previous live letter that Ishgard would open up if there was enough of a request for it. Right now, the only thing people are requesting are the prices to drop so they can actually buy a house in the first place...

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Originally Posted by Nayto

And for people that capitalized on echo drops exploit.

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This strawman arguement needs to go away.

If Atmos/Echo Drops REALLY are the issue, THEN SE SHOULD HAVE FIXED IT THEN...not wait until now, in ARR to address it. (Which btw, when they found the exploit...they DID kinda fix it, a little bit from what I understand). Even so, most people who did the Atmos thing, did it to get the Company Seals for Grand Company Items/Rank Ups/Relic Quest Key items etc. They didn't do it for Millions of gil... Still 90% of all 1.0 gil was removed from the game already.

SE shouldn't be using a key 'casual' feature of the game to 'fix' RMT and exploit issues they themselves let happen, turned a blind eye to and/or don't know how to solve another way. All this ends up doing is punishing the honest players...and gives them a bad taste in the mouth towards the whole project. Nor should prices vary across servers...it might in SE's mind solve a current problem, but it has the potential to create many more problems down the road. Heck, right now, why should a Non-Legacy FC stay on an 'expensive' server...as so as they can, they should transfer to the cheapest server and live like kings. Even on Legacy...you on Durandal? Wanna double your buying power? Move to Ragnarok.

This was just beyond Stupid.

Oh and:

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

Sorry, where are the "thousands of people"?

No offense, but pulling figures and facts from the ether isn't good journalism.

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Check this person's post out, it's a link to just ONE post on the housing topic on the JA forum's where the OP is basically saying the pricing is too high and why. Over 1K likes to his OP...that is 1 post. And the majority of players/people who are following this topic, aren't making posts/liking posts on the forums. They are talking about it in-game with their FC's...

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Originally Posted by Yolteotl

Everyone in opposition of the housing prices, go to: JP Forum and 'Like' the OP.

The more centralized the opposition to the ridiculous pricing scheme, the better chance we will be heard!

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If all of my FC members donated 4.7mil, I could afford the smallest house on my server.
I am part of a VERY SMALL FC of close friends - we expected a land plot to be maybe, 5 million. Nope.

Eh, they say people speak with their money.

Housing to me seems like a waste of time, but I can understand the uproar. That said -

Plots of land are limited. Finite. And as such not everyone is going to have one (in 2.1 at least)....

So I'm holding my notes with patience, it's pretty simple really:

If all of the plots are gone within 6 hours of patch 2.1, they priced accordingly (and possibly even cheaply) and suffice it to say - people that were mad-crazy for housing got what they wanted.

If half of the plots are gone within 6 hours of patch 2.1, I'd say they nailed it pretty perfect. Those that were truly into it and worked hard for it, got what they wanted immediately. Those who want to save a little coin play the market until the price is down to the goldilocks level.

If none of the plots are gone within 6 hours, either people are gambling (unlikely), or they mis-gauged the demand.

if you at least could get a house by buying it for real money on moggle station for those who want a house but never will have enough gil to afford one, all this will just help illegal gold sellers , great job SE for supporting people exploiting your game for own profits instead of support people who pay for your services

On the topic of Gil, it's not inherently hard to make.

I mean, it takes time and some basic thought processes of scanning the market board for what's selling (or what doesn't have a lot of options up so you can undercut). I am by no means a "Pro" at making Gil, but I made over a million gil within 4 days last week just selling what's popular. (I don't buy and flip either, most of it is my own farming and crafting items/spiritbonding for materia etc).

I think people are just expecting to log in to a mailbox full of money handed out when in actuality, it really requires you to work at it.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

Plots of land are limited. Finite. And as such not everyone is going to have one (in 2.1 at least)....

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Not sure where you got the idea that there is only limited housing, but, they said there are going to be multiple neighborhoods so if the plot of land you want is taken in one neighborhood, you can move to another and buy it.

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

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If none of the plots are gone within 6 hours, either people are gambling (unlikely), or they mis-gauged the demand.

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Either way, we'll see what happens. I'm betting a bag of chips on my lunch tomorrow that regardless of all the words here, the plots of land will melt like marshmellows stuck into the fiery pits of a new patch - If the high end plots are out of reach, I'm betting that all of the low and med plots will be gone in no time. We'll see though. In the wait to find out, I plan on doing the tasty tidbits that the patch adds that I can address, like quests (and what sounds like rep farming ._.), story missions, maybe a primal. Take a stab at CT, and cry to the changes to all the jobs.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Not sure where you got the idea that there is only limited housing, but, they said there are going to be multiple neighborhoods so if the plot of land you want is taken in one neighborhood, you can move to another and buy it.

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I could be wrong, but I thought they stated that the neighborhoods were limited as well, and that overall there's a fixed number.

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

if you at least could get a house by buying it for real money on moggle station for those who want a house but never will have enough gil to afford one, all this will just help illegal gold sellers , great job SE for supporting people exploiting your game for own profits instead of support people who pay for your services

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If people are willing to turn to RMT, then they're going to do it no matter how far out of their gil price range something it, be it 10% or 500%. Dropping the price over the worry of RMT would just have the same people using the FC housing as individual housing, because they could.

Housing is a vanity addition: it's in no way needed to fully experience and play the game. This is like excusing a person for stealing and blaming the company instead because said person couldn't otherwise afford the 70 inch TV.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

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you didnt get the point , SE spent alot of time and resources on something only a tiny margin will ever get to see or experience based on the game currency/income mechanics , they should have rather invested the time on something that is beneficial to all players , or just give us who have (real) jobs and other video games to play an alternative to own a house too if we pay , pretty much like in GTA5 where you can choose to grind for months or just pay with your real cash

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

I could be wrong, but I thought they stated that the neighborhoods were limited as well, and that overall there's a fixed number.

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The only information I have really read all says the same thing (from multiple sources but I just copied one for ease since it was from an official letter)

1:15:40
Q: How much land are you planning to implement within a housing area instance?
A: Thirty houses can be built within one instance. There will also be multiple levels for an instance. There will be a bunch of land with the same geography, and you can purchase the land that is unoccupied.

Link:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1500050

Will be interesting to see just how many neighborhoods are built then, in theory we should see very few right?

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

you didnt get the point , SE spent alot of time and resources on something only a tiny margin will ever get to see or experience based on the game currency/income mechanics , they should have rather invested the time on something that is beneficial to all players , or just give us who have (real) jobs and other video games to play an alternative to own a house too if we pay , pretty much like in GTA5 where you can choose to grind for months or just pay with your real cash

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While I don't agree with SE starting any sort of in game cash shop, I do agree that the smallest, cheapest houses should be far cheaper then they are and obtainable by pretty much any FC: a consolation prize, if you will, just so everyone can experience the Housing that SE put work into making. And Housing was 'definitely' something that people wanted.

Mainly though, I was arguing the 'this will cause more RMT' that seems to be running rampant.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

Mainly though, I was arguing the 'this will cause more RMT' that seems to be running rampant.

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im getting spammed by multiple gold spammers everyday which i have to blacklist , its already so many there i wouldnt notice a difference :D

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

Will be interesting to see just how many neighborhoods are built then, in theory we should see very few right?

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Basically how I read it is supply and demand with an infinite amount of instances possible (like lotro). There will probably be some set number of houses filled before a new instance is created or they may start off with a certain number (like 10 - 15) to start with then increase the instances if enough of the same plot is filled in the majority of the previously opened instances.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Basically how I read it is supply and demand with an infinite amount of instances possible (like lotro). There will probably be some set number of houses filled before a new instance is created or they may start off with a certain number (like 10 - 15) to start with then increase the instances if enough of the same plot is filled in the majority of the previously opened instances.

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Oh how history will inevitably repeat itself when there are too many instances 'per server' and it will need to be expanded. oh ho ho

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Originally Posted by KHShadowrunner

Oh how history will inevitably repeat itself when there are too many instances 'per server' and it will need to be expanded. oh ho ho

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Yup lol

But, I really expect more limited housing at launch. I expect it to get more crazy after personal housing in introduced ;)

And queue the "we are the 99%" rallies. Next thing I'll be watching on CNN is the new Occupy SE 2014 movement.

I personally am a pretty well accomplished Legacy player, and at most, since 2.1's implementation I have had 1.7 mil in my possession at one time, netting somewhere above 4 million so far this year. Don't mistake my use of the term 'accomplished' to mean financially accomplished. I don't play games to hoard currency, never have. So on Balmung server, the smallest lot in the lowest rate locales will cost no less than 10 million gil after full discount, 3 months after implementation. A few friends of mine and myself have a small FC that we JUST formed in response to these housing developments, and now must beat the trail ad nauseum to achieve the rank to earn housing. Our fault there, no fault of the system. Given that none of us has more than 500k at the moment, we will also be farming gil like mad bastards to afford nothing more than the bare minimum of real estate. Boy, I'm glad I play video games. It's such an escape from the stressors of reality.

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

im getting spammed by multiple gold spammers everyday which i have to blacklist , its already so many there i wouldnt notice a difference :D

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You'll notice once you need to start clearing your blacklist because it's full.

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

You'll notice once you need to start clearing your blacklist because it's full.

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i maxed it long time ago mate, for each new i add i have to remove one from the beginning

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Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

If people are willing to turn to RMT, then they're going to do it no matter how far out of their gil price range something it, be it 10% or 500%. Dropping the price over the worry of RMT would just have the same people using the FC housing as individual housing, because they could.

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I'd like to know how you figure that. To obtain FC housing you first need a rank 6 FC, so that on it's own blows the "individual housing" aspect out of the water. FC housing should be a system where a small FC can obtain a small house, a medium can obtain a medium and a large, err, a large. As it is now, a small/medium FC can't afford a small plot of land (unless everyone donates 2-4m gil each) and large FC's would refuse to waste money on anything other than a 1C/Small.

New article from MMOSITE on the OP

If we're adding new articles to the OP, here's one from Massively (Mog Log), with Balmung FC leader interviews. TL;DR: "This is a damning, damaging, and dimwitted move for Square-Enix."

The Mog Log Extra: Final Fantasy XIV's great housing fiasco

Dual shockers is such a lol website.

While I can't argue the fact that the prices are high, saying that 250k is as much as most veterans got at the moment is false. I sit at 200k just running dungeons casually, I started one month after release, and I haven't sold a single item in the market.

Someone who craft seriously and sell a lot of items can have much, much more.

Great articles, don't let the really small and ultimately powerless vocal minority of really misguided fans tell you otherwise. This even increased my respect for the Mog Log and Dualshockers after seeing many of their articles defending a lot of bad but in the end tolerable aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Joeymtl

While I can't argue the fact that the prices are high, saying that 250k is as much as most veterans got at the moment is false. I sit at 200k just running dungeons casually, I started one month after release, and I haven't sold a single item in the market.

Someone who craft seriously and sell a lot of items can have much, much more.

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"this is false because I say so" isn't a very solid argument.

Being around for a long time doesn't just mean having more time to accumulate gil. It also means having more time to use it.

"Someone who craft seriously and sell a lot of items" isn't a definition that represents any majority of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

If we're adding new articles to the OP, here's one from Massively (Mog Log), with Balmung FC leader interviews. TL;DR: "This is a damning, damaging, and dimwitted move for Square-Enix."

The Mog Log Extra: Final Fantasy XIV's great housing fiasco

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Added to the OP

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Originally Posted by Abriael

"this is false because I say so" isn't a very solid argument.

Being around for a long time doesn't just mean having more time to accumulate gil. It also means having more time to use it.

"Someone who craft seriously and sell a lot of items" isn't a definition that represents any majority of the playerbase.

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Logic is a very solid argument. True veteran players who had the time to play more and be active on the market can only have a lot more gil than me, and a lot more gil than me is more than 250k.

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Originally Posted by Joeymtl

Logic is a very solid argument.

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The problem is that you didn't use logic. Just a quite baseless assumption.