One of the main reasons I found tanking alluring to me was the prospect of being the natural leader of any dungeon run. As the leader, it's your role to set the pace of the run, and to somewhat know how the dungeon is run. One of the perks of playing a tank is the non-existent queue times, so use it to your advantage - run as many dungeons as you can, and get free tanking gear along the way. The Cavalry set from Brayflox is a good set of tanking gear you can aim for. I did the occasional FATE grinding for a few levels, but 35 or so, out of 50 of my GLD/PLD levels were gained purely by running dungeons. As a person who enjoys raiding, I gain more fun running dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Wilkins
A few more tips: use your AoE aggro skill (whether it's Flash or Overpower) from time to time. The healer generates group aggro every time they heal you, and if you don't continue holding aggro on mobs that your team are not targeting, the healer's healing aggro will eventually overtake yours. Also, upgrade your weapon as you can. If you haven't gotten a weapon for a fairly long time, consider getting a more updated green weapon from your Grand Company. Your weapon's damage dictates your aggro. On lower level dungeons it's not as important, since you always get level sync'ed, so higher level weapons have their stats readjusted for that level too, but this will become more apparent at higher levels - specifically once you hit 50. Mark your targets, so that DPS knows which targets to focus on - if they choose to ignore the marking, I'd let them face the consequences (depending on how nice you are - sometimes I'd try to pull aggro off them and back to me), but if they do it repeatedly, I'd rather let them realize the folly of their errors. They will eventually follow the marking to stay alive, and if they try to talk back otherwise, tell them to follow the markings - at least you have done your job.
Don't let the prospect of bad tanking experiences pull you down. Sometimes you'll get bad teammates who don't know their roles, sometimes you'll have a bad day. All you really need to do more is practice more (ie. running more dungeons). I always try and challenge myself by ensuring that throughout the entire run, I do not lose aggro of even one mob. As you keep pushing yourself, you'll get there one day too.
Failed at Brayflox - or Why I Suck at FFXIV
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12-09-2013, 08:42 AMjuniglee
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12-09-2013, 01:30 PMPapa_WilkinsOh got it!Quote:
Originally Posted by ASnogarD
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12-09-2013, 07:06 PMVoltareLyon
Your getting some great tips here.
The most important one is to communicate with your party.
then:
Mark the mobs or at least the first one.
Use overpower 2x at the start then start hammering (axing) your marked target.
Turn the mobs away from the healer, that way you can keep an eye on him(her).
other than that just keep trying you ll get the hang of it. -
12-09-2013, 07:54 PMMezolitikI did Brayflox for the first time last night, and I'd say it's the first point in the game where you actually have to know what you're doing. Unfortunately, the only way you're gonna learn how to do it is by trial and error; there's no tutorial for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Wilkins
The first party I ran with just wanted to charge the Inferno Drake, die, charge the Inferno Drake, die, etc. etc. Without any exaggeration, we must've died 20 times. That's when people started leaving. I managed to complete it on the second run, but people were dying all over the place.
It's a real baptism of fire, that dungeon - and I've heard the Sunken Temple is even harder! -
12-09-2013, 08:24 PMHEC
Not been tanking (yet) the only guide I can offer here is to use the Eorzea Database at Lodestone and / or Libra Eorzea database app on iPhone / iPad and Android phones / tablets (if you have one) - nice way to see all the items, gears, NPC's locations and quests.
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12-09-2013, 08:34 PMVisRalisHahahahahahahahahahahahahaha /crylaughing ;_;Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezolitik
Assuming you do it fresh without any knowledge... there are things nobody will realize until many many failures/runs.
But skill wise, Brayflox takes the cake.
Qarn is just mechanics. -
12-10-2013, 03:01 AMSwear_Bear
For someone being new to MMOs, I'm pretty sure you didn't know what you were getting yourself into when you chose to be a tank. Haha.
Brayflox is my favorite dungeon for this very reason; it is the first dungeon that truly tests the skills of the players. I've seen so many peoples' spirit's broken by that dungeon, but I've also seen it inspire others. I'm glad you're among the latter.
As a tank and the dungeon's natural leader, it is your responsibility to protect the group. In order to do this efficiently, just as the others have said, try to gear up appropriately and gain access to useful cross class abilities -- Provoke, Flash, etc...
From a healer's standpoint (SCH), all that I ask is for you do your best to make my job easier. Use your CDs to lessen the amount of heals needed and, for the love of whichever deity you chose during character creation, try to run out of the red zones. I enjoy a tank's confidence in my ability to keep him alive, but that doesn't mean you just stay put and try to crush a mob's fist with your face. Mistakes happen, and I get that. It's all part of a learning process.
Also, you have to understand that your failure to hold hate is not always entirely your fault; sometimes the DPS go berserk too early, or the healer spams cures too often. Heck, sometimes healers get dps tunnel vision, too. Hate management is a group effort, and people forget that. -
12-10-2013, 05:25 PMNaryoril
one thing the OP is probably aware of, but many players who are new to this game are not (sometimes even lvl 50 don't know that):
you can see who has how much aggro on the monster. in the party window, below the job icon, there is a white bar and a number.
A full bar means, you have the highest enmity on the selected monster in your party. The other bars are filled proportional to that amount (if the healers bar is 30% full, it means he has 30% enmity of the party member with the highest enmity).
The number is the enmity order within the party. So the player with the number 3 has the third highest enmity. "A" means, that player is being attacked. A "1" means that player has the highest enmity, but is not being attacked by the monster. This happens mostly in fates, when someone from another party is being attacked.
Using this a DPS can make sure he doesn't take the aggro from the tank, even before it happens, because he can always see when he's too close to the tank and must tone down a bit.
On a similar note: Limit breaks don't generate enmity (at least the melee limit break doesn't, i assume it's the same with the others) -
12-10-2013, 05:49 PMMezolitikYeah, I did Qarn last night. It wasn't too bad. It's more of a puzzle than a skill-based fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by VisRalis
Half the difficulty of Brayflox is that people leave all the time.
In the 5 or 6 dungeons leading up to Brayflox, I had maybe one person quit. I've done the Longstop three times now, and I've seen about 25 different people. It's unbelievable.
In my experience so far, you're better off running with new people than experienced ones, as the guys interested in the cut-scenes and the quests won't bail at the first sign of trouble. -
12-10-2013, 10:32 PMMaero
Just wait for Cutter's Cry, now that one i failed real bad at tanking :(
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12-10-2013, 10:50 PMDeroth
I like Brayflox, probably ran it more than any other dungeon at this point across every class but Monk so far (have all but 2 pieces of the gear too.) Only dislike Qarn because of the damn bees.
Cutter's Cry is annoying because everybody actually needs to do what they're supposed instead of being stuck on stupid and the loot tables are insulting to the players. -
12-10-2013, 11:03 PMannegoesrawr
Brayflox was a horror the first time I ran it as WHM. DPS died because he was kiting adds and wouldn't stop for me to heal. He got so angry he ragequit, and while waiting for another DPS to queue in, the Tank quit - WE HAD NOT EVEN REACHED THE FIRST BOSS. Of course, I was blamed. The second time I ran it, it was fine, I just can never get over how annoying Aiatar is. BEST ESUNA'S NA! Not really....but I am amped to start doing other dungeons soon.
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12-10-2013, 11:05 PMBixby
I think it's interesting how everybody has that one dungeon where they start to have real trouble, where dungeons really "start." I've heard Haukke, Brayflox, Qarn, CC...
Every one of them gives you a new lesson or three. Haukke teaches you about patrols, hopefully how to stun, and that you actually need your whole party for some bosses. Brayflox teaches you trash can actually kill you, and bosses are really serious from now on. Qarn teaches you that there are all kinds of wacky mechanics possible, and how to assign tasks (or understand assigned tasks if someone else is doing the explaining). CC teaches you what an add wave really looks like, and how to move right now, even without a red marker. Stone Vigil teaches you about very careful pulling and spatial awareness, and so on. -
12-10-2013, 11:13 PMSeezur_Undies
Ok, So i am going to explain my experience as a tank. First, I main as a WHM healer, and i was always one of those healers didn't understand what the big deal was about tanking, and just assumed that everytime i pulled agro from a tank, I was doing something wrong. I have been told that Braflox Longstop makes and breaks tanks and healers, if after you run that and you still want to tank or heal, then you picked the right role. After getting my WHM to 50 i decided to see what was so hard about tanking, so i started Gladiator. Boy did i figure out what the big deal is. Now this isnt a PLD is better than WAR debate, but i feel PLD is easier for me to play with how i like to play, and have tried warrior tanking and will admit, if i was healing me as a warrior tank, i would have been swearing at the screen, but thats another story. I learned fast in both healing and tanking is that gear is everything while leveling. Granted they give you alot of gear as your questing, but not everything, and not everything is at the same level.
That would be my first piece of advice. keep your gear upgraded. Now you say you dont have tons of gil to be upgrading your gear all the time, and you want to hone your tanking skills? Look at this: Dungeon Loot List find the gear for you level and work towards updating everytime you can. Sounds tedious, but really, if you want to be a great tanks, your skills only come to play in instances/dungeons so it makes the best sense. Prepare for wipes, focus on finding all the chests cause you never know, that one chest that "always drops that *%&$#@ potion" might drop something you need. Also a side note if you didnt already know, if you get a gear upgrade, you can equip it immediately so it will make your run a little smoother. Thats what worked for me, might not work for everyone, but i hope something out if this tl;dr post helped a little
Tip: if you have a summoner in your party, have him use titan (or Topaz) in steady, when you get to the trash bees (not the ones at the first boss) sick titan on the bee as the tank attacks the first mob, when the bee does final sting, its to titan, not your tank and a quick swiftcast/summon and he's back. Easier than a SC/raise on your tank and having raise sicknessQuote:
Originally Posted by Deroth
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12-14-2013, 09:37 AMTheFluffyCatThis. Whenever I hear someone say they leveled from 1-30 in a few days, my thought process goes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Wilkins
"Wait, what?? Who are you, level-master, and how is that possible?!"
"...Maybe they have no life and play for 20 hours a day...?"
"...or maybe they used a leveling bot or other cheating mechanism somehow...?"
"...But still, what?? How is that even possible?!"
I've decided they are either exaggerating hardcore, forgot how long it actually took, or I'm the slowest player on the planet.
As a mostly-DPS player, I agree with this 100% -- I'd never do anything to intentionally tick off the tank or healer & have to wait again! hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre
I think tanks have the hardest job, and therefore deserve a LOT of respect, but regardless of role, no one has to put up with jerks. Don't forget you can also block people (in addition to reporting them to SE, as Mirielle mentions) -- if they are over-the-top nasty & selfish, block them so you don't have to put up with them in the DF ever again. Win-win!
I wish I had been in a party that would hang around that long! I've only had people leave once -- my first run through Haukke -- but when they did, it was after only 2 wipes, and they left with accusations of how I dragged down the party, wasted everyone's time, and apparently wanted to just be carried through it. Afterwards, I was so hurt (and terrified that they were right about me) that I've honestly been avoiding it since. I'm going to try to find a FC with other newbies so I can team up with a group who will all be terrible together for a while :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezolitik
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12-15-2013, 05:54 PMlebirath
hi, just wanted to tell u a few tips (from a mage point if view and a player like u of 30 years but 1st MMO - i dint count WKC or MH)
1. dont take insults, like someone mention if they cant get that is a game and cant help u learn without being offesive, they can leave or u can) EVERY SINGLE role is important, almost no dgn can get pass without everyone doing their part. i had a tank behave like the king if the world, it was 3 of us so we ask him to calm down and he started with insults, we took pics for the rest if the dgn. Is a game suppose to be fun, dont let anyone transform it into a stressful situation. On the same line when u run into smn that is no following ur style, explain it, even though the tank has x job it is done different.
2. try to never go into the next lvl dgn if u didnt properly loot the preview one. I did Haukken 15times (i have the worst drop rate.. lol)
3. when u go in, state that u r learning/praticing, that advice is welcome. Some might leave, but some would stay and guve u tips. e.g i did haukken so many times tgat when run into a tank that was new to dgn and stated this, i would guve him tips on whi to target 1st and where to position. For what i have seen flix is actualky use as one if the "dgn practice"
4. DONT be afraid of wipes and try to find a friendly group that woukd help you. Some say garuda was their 1st insane, we wipe 6times ;1st wtm, tank and one dps) till we came with a plan and did it.
5. if u end up with a friendly healer, u can tell him/her that if u r not noticing enemies in her, to run to you and call ur attetion. THAT said i can compremised the healing if wtm dont timed well
6. as said.. ALWAYS avoid what u can; some aoe u might take w upgrade gear (eg u r doing a lower lvl) but avoidinf never hurts
hope u enjoy the game and dont get discourage by ppl being unpolite :) -
12-16-2013, 01:43 AMMysticNeko
Ok I glanced through these posts and didn't see anyone mention this tip and who knows, maybe you probably already know but... alternate your enmity building attacks among the enemies. I haven't played to much mrd but the 20 or so levels I have played I found that if I focus my attacks on target 2 and drop my enmity building attacks on mark 1 (the one the DDs should be attacking) I was keeping hate just fine. Just drop an overpower once in a while and drop flash in emergency situations (or when there's slept mobs) I probably shouldn't be giving advice for how to tank with mrd since I'm a pld tank but that's how I was keeping hate on mrd and its worked so far.
Alternatively as the gld/pld I mark 1 if there's 2 mobs and mark 2 if there's 3 mobs. (on the rare occasion there are 4 mobs i mark 3 then) I then focus on mark 1, use first attack, switch targets to mark 2 (assuming its not asleep) and use attack 2 (enmity+) then my 3rd attack (enmity+) is back on 1. First attack on 1, 2nd attack on mark 3 then back to 1. So far it works fine :3 Just don't forget to flash from time to time.
Though I will say I can't stand DDs who go all out and don't pay attention to that hate bar in the party list grrrr just because your level 50 with fairly good gear doesn't mean you know how to play >< DDs need to learn how to hold back their damage, its about teamwork not who can dish out the most damage
Copperbell mines was the place for me though. I went there and it was a complete disaster, we ended up running out of time. I felt like such a failure. Went back to Deepcroft (which I happen to love) and ran it over and over again until I finally started getting a feel for tank. By the time I went back to Copperbell Mines I ended up completely destroying that place.
Brayflox was another place I spent like 2 weeks running it over and over, another one of my favorites. The cavalry set that drops there is really good, I wore that set up to af actually XD yes there was a heavy armor set in-between those 2 but because i kept running brayflox I was like level 40 or so before I finally managed to gather the complete set. -
12-16-2013, 01:47 AMCrisGer
I won't go back and read all of the posts for I see the usual blend of nice posts and not so nice ones from people telling us we are dumb players or that we can't call a dungeon done until we have gone back and grabbed every single piece of gear there is. sigh.
Brayflox is way over levelled with the final boss being basically unbeatable unless you are way over levelled in gear experience and manage to get that monster lizard off the green goo. It is NOT balanced as some of the class quests are way out of balance as well. I suspected sooner or later we would run into this for most developers seem addicted to hitting players who are "normal" with huge boss inbalance to force them to team up and make it impossible to advance without becoming super games to support their titles.
I am sorry but you will have to find a nice team that will support you and hopefully at least an experienced healer who for sure has Esuna to shut down the poison breath of the dragon otherwise you wont advance. -
12-16-2013, 12:45 PMVisRalis
^not sure if troll... or gave up to fast and never really 'tried'...
SCH can heal through Brayflox fine.
Coordinated tactics can get through first boss & adds.
For Aiatar's spits of poison pool, work your way inside from entrance (saves space better at the end).
Poison pools near entrance also disappear faster.
Dodging Aiatar's poison breath has a strategy that is easy to employ - instead of standing still move left & right every action. Every time poison breath comes, you'll be at the edge of the AOE or already moving to either edge making it easier to be out of it. Pro-active instead of reactive.
Among many strategies good for Brayflox... -
12-16-2013, 06:43 PMSlade6
Full hq gear, all stat points in vit, mark targets, tomahawk, overpower, flash flash, and provoke for emergencies, that simple. Oh and dont forget not to stand in any red circles or cones.
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12-16-2013, 07:07 PMVespar
A good rule of thumb if you are MRD, is get your GLD to 22 for Provoke and Flash. These two enmity generating abilities come in very handy.
I know it is hard to learn to tank when everyone expects you to be awesome but don't get discouraged. Everyone is new at some point and even those players were probably making mistakes back then too. So, to the experienced players out there: take a breath and help your fellow players out. Explain stuff, no need to be rude and just drop party or cuss someone out. If you see the problem..POLITELY explain it to the person. Chances are they just don't know... -
12-16-2013, 07:19 PMMichelassoIs there such a thing? We can see the enmity? Is it specific for tanks or for PC? As a DPS on PS3 I've never seen it. 0.oQuote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Wilkins
BTW what's wrong with Brayflox? I did it couple of times as a DPS without any issue. Even the first time. Sunken Temple instead.. HA! We had to repeat the first and second boss a couple of times even now when helping a new player in the FC!! And don't make me start about Cutter's Cry. The first few times the final boss was a Waterloo. Then someone came with a strategy and it was a breeze. Aggro was an issue indeed. Those ants were everywhere! -
12-16-2013, 08:11 PMNaryorilThere is, and i'm quite sure it's also on the PS3Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelasso
http://eorzeareborn.com/wp-content/u...mity-Meter.jpg
See the white bars below the class symbol? That's your enmity, relative to the one with the highest enmity in you party, and with a ranking. -
12-16-2013, 09:42 PMMichelasso
Ow.. Thanks! I never noticed it before. I'll check it more, than.
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12-17-2013, 12:09 AMJoeDono
Another tanking tip. This may be obvious, but I wiped the first 12 times I tried Brayflox because I didn't notice. Your stance (Shield Oath for PLD and Defiance for WAR) turns off when you die. Being in one of these stances lets you generate 2x (or so) enmity than normal. I could not figure out why I was losing boss agro in Brayflox after the first try until I noticed this.
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12-17-2013, 08:40 AMPetiteMalFleurShield oath on pally is a level 40 skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDono
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12-17-2013, 10:15 AMKapisketo
I'm also a noob to MMORG (well I played a lot to Ultima Online when it was "the only" MMORG) I'm still at low level and I barely play in parties but this thread teached me a ton about how agro works (didn't knew that healing also did agro).
Because I'm a Arcanist I think it's very important to me to know how to deal with agro because even if I'm supposed to be DPS I have the Carbuncle being a TANK and many times I found myself doing Healers work so thanks to you all I know a bit more about how everything works. -
12-17-2013, 10:39 AMAntarcticBudgerigar
Usually the best technique (that I find), is to be at least 2 levels (maximum level cap for some dungeons) above the required one. Really makes a difference.
One such example of one that's really hard to do without being at least 1 level above req. is the Stone Vigil (it's a bit later in the story). Hard to do until you're at least 2 levels clear of the requirement.
Also in the long run, using flash every few attacks or so does wonders to keep the aggro on you (Shield Oath helps as well in this case. It puts more aggro on you, and builds defense, though it reduces output melee damage by 20%). -
02-16-2014, 04:23 AMPapa_Wilkins@Naryoril: I did NOT know this, and feel even worse that this was in reply to my OP and I just saw it (I think my notices to my own thread were getting spammed by GMail). Many likes and thanks for this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Naryoril
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02-16-2014, 04:36 AMPapa_WilkinsThank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluffyCat
Well, if you are interested, we have a small FC, and we all stink (still trying to get through Arum Vale), so please feel invited. If you're on Adamantoise, we'd love to play with you, even if you don't want to join our FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluffyCat
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02-16-2014, 04:41 AMMethos76
hit me up. were on same server. send FR to Methos Cloudstrife. ill help ya out.
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02-16-2014, 04:59 AMPapa_Wilkins
@Michaelasso & @Naryoril: What I was talking about is the Enemy List.
http://i1.minus.com/ibgaf9Zsw8iVLK.png
If you look at the left side of this screen, midway down, you'll see the enemy list. What was NOT showing for me due to default window placement was the color-coded symbols on the left - blue-round = no agro toward you, yellow-up means agro increasing, orange (yellow-red-alternating?) meas agro dropping, and red mead you have their agro. It seems a bit quicker than the number-and-bar. However, I"m playing with moving the party list to right-of-center to also see that better!
Note: you might have to go into your Character settings, UI settings, near the bottom turn on "Display enmity list" ... -
02-16-2014, 05:00 AMPapa_WilkinsI am terrible at remembering to turn Defiance back on ...Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDono
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02-16-2014, 05:09 AMPapa_WilkinsThank you! I just tried but it cannot find you, so I'll again try later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Methos76
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02-16-2014, 08:22 AMMethos76
Imnot on right now. I will be out until tomorrow evening around 5 to6 MST. But character is named Methos Cloudstrife (adamantoise). If not i will find you.