Why so much animosity toward Dragoons?

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Originally Posted by Kirschey

I have encountered a -very- small handful of great DRGs using the DF/pugging in shout before, but they are definitely outnumbered =P

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That can be said of any class, and especially of TANK roles... and Healers who can DPS and Heal in the same dungeon swapping gracefully between Cleric Stance and not running out of MP w/o Bard's Song.

However there is just as much animosity for MNK as 98% of MNKs I have encountered via DF are... Lackluster and fail, and don't even manage to keep GL3 on a single mob pull.

and Oblit... you can just EDIT the post and paste the rest of it into a first one and Limit Break the 1000 Characters.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

4. Drg's seem to have a intimate relationship with the floors in any dungeon or raid.

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It's this, I find mostly.

Majority of Dragoons I and others meet are just face rolling the keyboard and don't do very well. They just spam whatever, whenever - now this would be fine if it weren't for the animation locks DRG suffers from. See Titan HM, do a jump and a landslide or plumes occur you can say goodbye to that guy. Or even DRG's that jump as the purple goo is spawning under them in Demon Wall so they get hit by it.

Though I've found over time that less bad players are on DRG now days, there's still some around though.

All the DRGs I've partied with have been pretty good and that's coming from a tank and healer perspective.

DPS like to label each other in order for them to feel more superior.

Helping people out in Titan HM last week and the 2 MNKs couldn't dodge for shit while the DRG bossed it.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Didn't notice people had a problem with DRG. People in and out of my FC are always wanting my DRG damage in parties.

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On my server in Mordonna you will see many shouts for WP/AK runs or Coil with the caveat added No Dragoons! Maybe people on Hyperion have had more time to learn to play the job right, but on Midgard we tend to shy away from non known dragoons due to dps/derp issues.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

On my server in Mordonna you will see many shouts for WP/AK runs or Coil with the caveat added No Dragoons! Maybe people on Hyperion have had more time to learn to play the job right, but on Midgard we tend to shy away from non known dragoons due to dps/derp issues.

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I haven't seen any of this around but maybe it's getting drowned out by the WP/AK shouts -_-

i was in a dungeon last night someone called me fabio mc dragoon and they thought also i was asian or something because i didn't type anything lol. because i have full myth armor set and the armor looks awesome. then someone sends me a tell and calls me a douche the same evening. great times! and not based on my play, just only looking at my dragoon.

why would i have problems with a class that increases my bards damage output?

I'm not going to say all dragoons are facerollers, but if you're a faceroller there's a good chance you're a dragoon. The term dragoon tax didn't originate because they're playing the class well.

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Originally Posted by LamchopSHK

I haven't seen any of this around but maybe it's getting drowned out by the WP/AK shouts -_-

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I've seen a decent amount of good Dragoons over here on Hyperion. Not to account for all of them mind you. But if someone is yelling out 'no dragoons' specifically, thaaaat sounds like it's been carried over as a stigma from 11, wh ile other players are riding the popularity choice dick to 'belikeeveryoneelseville' just to be funny and get attention. Either that, or maybe they personally ran into a lot of bad Dragoons the server over there.

The DRG I run with in my static....is a really solid choice. Makes T1 and T4 a ton easier.

Its just the sea of horrible dragoons ruining it for the good ones.

every game has a class with the highest consentrations of DERP in it, just happens to be dragoon in this case.

I remember when I ran prae with another DRG that had a relic and some pieces of darklight, while back in that time I had my garuda weap and majority of my AF gear still.
We're at Ultima Weapon and I kept hearing some sound, and I'm like "the fuck is that"
That dragoon kept spamming ring of thorns.
I don't think he was using any rotation at all...
But I was so proud that I did better with someone with a relic.

For 1 good drg you find 9 horrible.

I saw how all drg in Ifrit HM can't avoid the charges, dying 2 or 3 times in a row. At the end, they get his weapon without help us to killing the primal.

Then we started coil, drg dying caduceus cleave or backslash. Do you know what gear drop the chest? drg x2. A sad facepalm.

The MNK comments.. lol.. my group has gotten far more MNK gear than DRG.. that RNG :rolleyes:

Come to Lamia, we'll love you long time.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

On my server in Mordonna you will see many shouts for WP/AK runs or Coil with the caveat added No Dragoons! Maybe people on Hyperion have had more time to learn to play the job right, but on Midgard we tend to shy away from non known dragoons due to dps/derp issues.

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A lot of players from Hyperion are from version 1.xx including myself. Wasn't really a DRG or MNK is better debate because everyone wanted BLM's in parties. 1.xx had very situation based fights. For one place a DRG would be better like quickly taking Princess down in Cutter's Cry, or Monks using Fists of Fire on Mizer's Mistress in Aurum Vale.

At least on Hyperion and maybe other Legacy servers, I don't ever see a "No DRG!" in people's shouts. Only time I see a DRG or a MNK excluded is if the team already has melee DPS, or if they want particular jobs like BLM/BRD in WP for AoE.

OP, I just have this to say about all the Dragoon hate

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Haters_43a46d_2656357.gif

Well, 24% of DDs are Dragoon, therefore it stands to reason that a large percentage of the bad DDs you encounter will be DRGs. That and it is much easier to spot a bad DRG over say.. a bad SMN (if you've never played either class) so they are highlighted even more.

I think mostly it's pple who just joins the DRG sucks or biased against anyone who plays DRG bandwagon because they don't want to be the so called "outcasts". It's a trend, if you hear loldrg or drg sucks etc.. pple just go with it. But the truth is every job has crappy players, pple that join the drg hate bandwagon are just more vocal about it. DRG is a melee dps so it's "easier" to see when one sucks because it's right infront you. But i guarantee you there are alot of BLMs/SMNs/Healers that suck just as bad but the only reason you dont hear about how much they suck is because it's "harder" to see because they are in the backlines. Anyways, point is every job has crap players, pple can keep thinking loldrg or drg sucks, lucky on Hyperion we don't have too many of these haters.

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Originally Posted by Quattrob

I think mostly it's pple who just joins the DRG sucks or biased against anyone who plays DRG bandwagon because they don't want to be the so called "outcasts". It's a trend, if you hear loldrg or drg sucks etc.. pple just go with it. But the truth is every job has crappy players, pple that join the drg hate bandwagon are just more vocal about it. DRG is a melee dps so it's "easier" to see when one sucks because it's right infront you. But i guarantee you there are alot of BLMs/SMNs/Healers that suck just as bad but the only reason you dont hear about how much they suck is because it's "harder" to see because they are in the backlines. Anyways, point is every job has crap players, pple can keep thinking loldrg or drg sucks, lucky on Hyperion we don't have too many of these haters.

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Will be hard to hide when someone makes a DPS meter when Add On's come into the game.

Dragoons for life! Anyone who says coil drops only drg gear is wrong. Yes maybe for you, but goddammit I've done coil for over 2 months and only got 2 dragoon gear and 2 striking accessories. So it's honestly just bad rng. But I can say my dps is really good in coil I can crit almost 1300. I'm sorry a lot of you guys del with bad drgs. They look bad ass that's why new players swarm to it and it's a somewhat easy class. But I love playing my dragoon and could careless if someone doesn't want me in their party because it's just a game.
Ps. Avoiding aoes is easy but it takes practice and pray you don't lag

Dragoons on FFXIV are like Gladiators on AION, Elves on Mabinogi, and Death Knights on World of Warcraft. They attract the... special sections of the MMO community.

That said, my best friend is a DRG and I don't mind playing with them when they're not infuriatingly pulling mobs while I'm trying to mark them. I'll Shield Lob them over here in a few seconds, dammit! Always the Dragoons, never the rangers or the mages. I can't wrap my head around it. Is it just me? I think it's just me.

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Originally Posted by yoshikwalla

Dragoons on FFXIV are like Gladiators on AION, Elves on Mabinogi, and Death Knights on World of Warcraft. They attract the... special sections of the MMO community.

That said, my best friend is a DRG and I don't mind playing with them when they're not infuriatingly pulling mobs while I'm trying to mark them. I'll Shield Lob them over here in a few seconds, dammit! Always the Dragoons, never the rangers or the mages. I can't wrap my head around it.

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Except dk's in wow were and always is a brokenly op class. Drg not so much at all.

I only hate dragoons because their coil loot rate is like 1000000000000000x more than anything else, and yet they still die.

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Originally Posted by Velveteer

I remember when I ran prae with another DRG that had a relic and some pieces of darklight, while back in that time I had my garuda weap and majority of my AF gear still.
We're at Ultima Weapon and I kept hearing some sound, and I'm like "the fuck is that"
That dragoon kept spamming ring of thorns.
I don't think he was using any rotation at all...
But I was so proud that I did better with someone with a relic.

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I think most people can agree the sound is annoying, but then you have people who know it's annoying and spam it around major towns and then it causes a snowball effect of others to join in.

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Originally Posted by yamface

Except dk's in wow were and always is a brokenly op class. Drg not so much at all.

I only hate dragoons because their coil loot rate is like 1000000000000000x more than anything else, and yet they still die.

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They all attract the "ermagherd this class looks so badass look at the cool armor im gonna make a dark lone wolf with amnesia and a mysterious past and name him Squaske Leonchiha" kind of players. ...Okay, now that I 'thunk it, Rogues fit the bill more than DK's do. :)

Nothing to do with FF11 for me - Dragoon was my first job to 50 here not long after release, and my first relic. Unfortunately, the class is melee, pure DPS, and often put into fatal positions by its own class abilities; which ultimately leaves it in an unpleasant spot when you have to pick 2-4 DPS out of 5 DPS jobs, and that 'pure DPS' isn't high enough to beat classes that bring significantly more utility either..

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Originally Posted by yamface

I only hate dragoons because their coil loot rate is like 1000000000000000x more than anything else, and yet they still die.

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Myself and a few other dragoons have already expressed how little loot we have gotten from Coil so as he said, it's just bad RNG. And about Dragoons dyeing, you could say the same about bad monks to it's not only the bad dragoons.

Edit: About two months of Coil and this is what I have to show for it.
http://i.imgur.com/KSabvt3.png

Having all the classes leveled myself I find DRG to have the hardest rotation for about similar damage to everything else in the game. If you aren't skilled at the rotation you do way worse then say like a monk or a bard which has fairly easy rotation.

Harder rotation for DPS that is pretty much the same as everything else that has an easier rotation.

More so than any other job I think, you have to adjust your rotation constantly depending on what's currently happening and a lot of drgs just can't optimise themselves properly. Sure there's an ideal rotation of 24 steps or something, but this game has very few "tank and spank" fights where you can just spam that over and over.

I think FF11 has almost nothing to do with it, and the people the spike armor attracts are not necessarily worse than the awful conjurers you find all over the place. It's all about the weaknesses of the job, which have been stated here already:

• Weakest DPS in the game for most real situations, barely edging out the pure DPS ability of support-focused BRD
• Vulnerable to the magic attacks which constitute a larger portion of damage to DPS jobs at this time
• Abilities which cause undue risk (especially in combination -- B4B + Jump = bad times)
• Portion of DPS linked to interrupts which cannot be used on GCD in many encounters
• DPS severely hampered by opponent motion -- while MNK loses damage from the hit, DRG can't get buffs without hitting from the correct direction
• Support abilities are otherwise effectively useless (Slow affects few opponents of consequence, Stun is rarely available for utility, lolmantra)

Based on the other buffs going to MNK, I doubt DRG will be welcomed with open arms in 2.1, but it's a start compared to what they are now. They're just plain behind.

I would say its because Dragoons die more often than other classes due to being melee, having the lowest magical defense in the game and having a terribad animation lock on their main mechanic that doesnt let you dodge those magical AOEs for a few seconds. So its more likely that a bad player wouldnt be able to stay alive on this class, than on any other class.

It will be interesting to see if the changes to jump will improve the situation a bit.

I am curious to know how Yoshi-P was playing DRG when he mentions that they were the "easy" job to play. Considering all the abilities we have to use just to keep up. whatever utility we do have has to be used in order to keep dps up which nullifys the utility part. SO i wonder if even those that play it well and manage well, are playing it the way Yoshi-P intended when he said they were "easy"

All in all i cannot fault people who play Dragoon bad, sure they can always try harder, but seeing as they chose this job thinking it was going to be easy, it was kinda misleading

Most Dragoons that I have pugged with are terrible. All they know how to do is spam the same 3 skills over and over again.

They don't do the positional moves, use their skills or etc. Heck I used to be one of those during my earlier levels (10-40). As I saw it, using those skills and moving didn't make much of a difference when doing lower level dung. So I just got accustomed to being.. lazy? Dodging at lower levels? nahh had a healer. If I died, no big woop I'm used to dying! hell all lower levels were!

It's this lazy habit that Dragoons carry over to end game that makes people despise them. I'm sure they don't even know that they are sucking lol. But yea as a Dragoon I am here to assure you that good Dragoons exist! It's just so easy for them to get lazy though.

TL;DR Dragoons are lazy :D

a good solid 95% of all drg I have met are just bad. Problems I have with them:
1. never use heavy thrust(like you have got to be kidding me on this)
2. Love to throw their spear as they run toward or away from the healer after standing in red target zones.
3. Standing in red target zones and not moving because moving is so hard
4. Buff power surge before even touching heavy thrust through a whole dungeon then proceed to just use jump skills
5. Think their class is the lowest dps and QQ on forums til Yoshi caters to their casual player style and nerfs a class for no reason I may add and gives them a buff
6.Refuse to listen to the party about how to play their class better7.They never buff heavy thrust(oh wait I already said that, oh well I will say it again just so they may learn, but everyone who uses forums I can guarantee uses heavy thrust)
8.Waste the LB. . . . The LB is not just for melee dps I am sorry.
9.Most are very lazy and refuse to learn their dps rotation, again either do not know or are just lazy
10. Buff bfb then proceed to get hit by every freaking red target area and then blame the healer for not healing.

Just a short summary