Here is what I don't understand about the CT Lockout

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

So you chose to purposely ignore something critical, and attempted to argue with another person (that wasn't arguing with you in the first place) without fully understanding the basics of their argument? Smart move bro!

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This is a public forum, anyone can provide their opinion on a subject.

JUST like you're doing right now, step down off your white soap box dear.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Smart move bro!

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Uhm.... wut?

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

So you chose to purposely ignore something critical, and attempted to argue with another person (that wasn't arguing with you in the first place) without fully understanding the basics of their argument? Smart move bro!

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When a person selectively quotes some one, that generally means they only want to talk about that part of a person's post. Therefore I assumed that's all they were discussing, therefore I tailored my response to suit that.
As for your other point, you're doing the exact same thing to me right now, I never asked for you to join in, so why do you insert yourself into the conversation? Hypocri- Smart move bro!

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Originally Posted by EmSix

When a person selectively quotes some one, that generally means they only want to talk about that part of a person's post. Therefore I assumed that's all they were discussing, therefore I tailored my response to suit that.
As for your other point, you're doing the exact same thing to me right now, I never asked for you to join in, so why do you insert yourself into the conversation? Hypocrite.

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This is getting good.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/...yote/YG6vv.gif

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Originally Posted by Wyyote

This is getting good.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/...yote/YG6vv.gif

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What kind of popcorn you got? Mine is plain x.x

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Originally Posted by Wyyote

This is getting good.

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In all honesty, I'd rather we got back to the point at hand, but I'm going to reply to people that reply to me (especially if they're aggressive) regardless.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

In all honesty, I'd rather we got back to the point at hand, but some people decided to turn this thread into personal attacks.

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Noted. And a valid point to be honest. Typical internet mentality....

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/...pscdcd732a.gif

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Originally Posted by EmSix

When a person selectively quotes some one, that generally means they only want to talk about that part of a person's post. Therefore I assumed that's all they were discussing, therefore I tailored my response to suit that.
As for your other point, you're doing the exact same thing to me right now, I never asked for you to join in, so why do you insert yourself into the conversation? Hypocri- Smart move bro!

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Well if you didn't take the time to read the argument/discussion, before criticizing the input of the person you quoted, I really don't expect you to understand your own place on the matter. I only put my 2 cents on that because you didn't seem to understand what was being said in their argument. They never asked you to join in neither so... I guess we're equal on putting our own input where it isn't asked for! I'm fine with that, if you are. :)

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Originally Posted by Shioban

This is a public forum, anyone can provide their opinion on a subject.

JUST like you're doing right now, step down off your white soap box dear.

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100% correct. I'm guessing it's just bad to point out misunderstandings though. That soap box gets stepped on too often because of that.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

In all honesty, I'd rather we got back to the point at hand, but I'm going to reply to people that reply to me (especially if they're aggressive) regardless.

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Agreed. Though you may want to choose your own words wisely before you criticize about aggressive replies. As per the quote that initiated this...

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Originally Posted by EmSix

...and FFXIV has the Armoury System which promotes the leveling of multiple classes on the same character, so your suggestion is stupid.

So your suggestion is to pay more money to play other classes properly? Man, SE must be making a killing.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

In other games you can at least have different specs for one character. With this game you can have 1 spec/job at endgame and maybe one slightly less, and a ton of other jobs that sit there rotting.

Does not sound like the "expansive armory system" that was boasted about arr to me...

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When MMO analysts rated this game and stated it had a potential to be good it was analyzed based on its ability to expand on its basics. You are grading the game on what it currently has to offer, just the basics, and nothing beyond that. Because we know this game allows cross skill usage, we can expect cross skilling to be heavily advanced later on down the line, meaning we have new opportunities to play different specs for each of the classes. We also know that its required to have certain levels for certain classes to produce newer classes meaning we have an endless possibility for new classes with cross skilling combined. This simple logic leads to the fact that this game can be and will more then likely be a decent game later on.

This is just the basic analysis of the basics of this game....we haven't even talked about the advance concepts yet....

I think you need to think about what you said carefully.

You've only licked the apple, you haven't even bitten into it yet but your telling me and everyone else the apple tastes terrible.

can please anyone show the link saying theres a lockout in ct. ~~ im quite confused to this.

There are groups who can clean Coil T4 in just full DL + relic
If this is too difficult, you can always clean T4 easily with half melding ilv70 plus 1 or 2 myth gears (which will only take you 2 to 3 weeks after 2.1)
As long as Coil is lockout you won't need a 2nd top geared class and all rest content of the game is doable with the gears I mention above.
You can run CT as many as you want you just wont be able to get the full set in a week and call it a quit.
Why this will stop you enjoying the full content of the game if you can do 99% of it with any classes you want (except T5)?

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Originally Posted by ken00

can please anyone show the link saying theres a lockout in ct. ~~ im quite confused to this.

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It's posted on the first page of the general board.

Thread here.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

What about the other jobs that are in the game, and the other jobs to be added to the game. I want experience the games content on all the jobs, not just a couple... In other games you can at least have different specs for one character. With this game you can have 1 spec/job at endgame and maybe one slightly less, and a ton of other jobs that sit there rotting.

Does not sound like the "expansive armory system" that was boasted about arr to me...

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Oh, it is...

But just not at the ilvl90 cap.

You can get all relics and DL for your other jobs without restriction. But hardcores that want to be on the bleeding edge with the best gear will be stuck on a grueling treadmill.

When the next level of gear is released (likely 2.2), the ilvl90 gear lockouts will be greatly eased and it will become as common as Darklight.

Welcome to FFXIV:ARR

Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Luso

It's posted on the first page of the general board.

Thread here.

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finally.. thank you fellow adventurer!

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Originally Posted by ImDingDing

There are groups who can clean Coil T4 in just full DL + relic
If this is too difficult, you can always clean T4 easily with half melding ilv70 plus 1 or 2 myth gears (which will only take you 2 to 3 weeks after 2.1)

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and then there are people that can't. This is what CT was originally advertised to be: "Can't clear coil in Darklight? Don't worry, Crystal Tower gear will come out to make it easier for you!"

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Originally Posted by ImDingDing

As long as Coil is lockout you won't need a 2nd top geared class and all rest content of the game is doable with the gears I mention above.
You can run CT as many as you want you just wont be able to get the full set in a week and call it a quit.
Why this will stop you enjoying the full content of the game if you can do 99% of it with any classes you want (except T5)?

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What if I want to play other classes in Turn 5? It gets seriously, mind numbingly boring doing the exact same fight, every week, with no changes.
I would love to be able to do Turn 5, or any turn, as a different job, but I am prevented from doing so.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I know the damage control unit are out in full force here but try and at least understand our point-of-view here;



The problem we're encountering is;

•Do Turns 1-5 [Done]
•Do Crystal Tower for your weekly piece of gear

-Now what?


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do Myth dungeons for i90 gear of your choice? get through extreme primals for i90 weapon and accessories? do moogle to gear your alts with i80 weapons?

there are plenty of other venues to get gear.

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Originally Posted by Dano

do Myth dungeons for i90 gear of your choice? get through extreme primals for i90 weapon and accessories? do moogle to gear your alts with i80 weapons?

there are plenty of other venues to get gear.

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You've missed the point completely. Each avenue presents the same problem of a lock out to hault progression, a barrier if you will.

Currently no matter what avenue I persuse I cannot work to obtain the gear I need to attempt content like Turn 5.

As Emsix said it gets VERY dry doing the same job, simply because its the only one geared for the only content of that calibur in-game currently.

The idea of the Crystal Tower was to circumvent this to an extent, a stepping stone to helping aid you in beating Turn 5, and now it's just become another weekly lock-out, it's just a shame that's all really.

It's the overall gear, in terms of weapons we're sorted.


Perhaps my rose-tinted glasses hurt my eyes from playing other games where there was lots of unique gear that provided some form of effort to obtain and provided interesting choices instead of 'THIS IS THE BEST USE THIS'.

"Oh but you have a choice between Allagan or AF+1" /sigh

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Originally Posted by Zfz

We consume content faster than it can be produced. Lockouts help tremendously in controlling the rate of consumption.

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You can't possibly be serious.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

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it's a reasonable barrier, when all contents always reward you with gear it's normal to have artificial barriers or do you prefer we go back to 1.0's drop rates with no barriers?

Point is, you can still gear one job to clear turn 5 or you can gear your other jobs down the line and still enjoy doing turn 5, its not like the content will be gone after 2.1, it's also a good idea to help new comers gear up for the next new set of contents.

In truth you don't really need full on i90 to clear turn 5, a few pieces here and there is sufficient (as long as you meet hp, acc and dps checks). If your concern is clearing content i don't see that being an issue.

shamless edit: this might be something to look into in terms of CT loot lockouts
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Full-Raid-Lock

according to translation EM primals have chests that drop i90 accessories
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...21-2.1-and-2.2

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Perhaps my rose-tinted glasses hurt my eyes from playing other games where there was lots of unique gear that provided some form of effort to obtain and provided interesting choices instead of 'THIS IS THE BEST USE THIS'.

"Oh but you have a choice between Allagan or AF+1" /sigh

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Yeah, horizontal progression is FAR better than the current one-track vertical progression. The lack of any real choices in armor is my biggest complaint about this game.

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Originally Posted by EmSix

Read my original post, CT has always been marketed as a way for those currently incapable of clearing coil to do so, meaning that yes, there are people who aren't capable of killing maybe even Turn 1 in Darklight, Crystal Tower was designed/marketed for them, so they could attempt it.

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to be honest, most of coil is not getting hit (unless you are the tank).. it doesnt matter what gear you have on, if you cant not get hit, you cant win.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

to be honest, most of coil is not getting hit (unless you are the tank).. it doesnt matter what gear you have on, if you cant not get hit, you cant win.

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Yes, the gear you have on does matter, having a higher HP or dealing more damage means getting hit by AoEs is less punishing, dealing more damage means you're going to have quicker kills, making the mistakes less frequent because they don't happen as often per encounter.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Yeah, horizontal progression is FAR better than the current one-track vertical progression. The lack of any real choices in armor is my biggest complaint about this game.

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What are you talking about? There is alot of horizontol progression, 3 different ilvl90 weapons 2 different ilvl90 armor sets, 3 different accessory sets ilvl90?

3 different ilvl70 weapons there are about 3 gear sets for each ilvl that's plenty of choices

......??????

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Originally Posted by EmSix

Yes, the gear you have on does matter, having a higher HP or dealing more damage means getting hit by AoEs is less punishing, dealing more damage means you're going to have quicker kills, making the mistakes less frequent because they don't happen as often per encounter.

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Sure its slower, but it can be done and with little difficulty once you know how. And when you do coil on alt jobs, you start to get gear for them. People shouldnt be afraid of content that you cant just faceroll the first time and wait until its a joke to do. I just dont understand the mindset it takes to complain how little there is to do, and outright refuse to do content they are intimidated by. How is a game where you can beat everything with ease even fun?

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I know the damage control unit are out in full force here but try and at least understand our point-of-view here;



The problem we're encountering is;

•Do Turns 1-5 [Done]
•Do Crystal Tower for your weekly piece of gear

-Now what?

The other content will dry up before the end of the year is out, and that's not even the try-hards headbutting the content from day one.The extreme primals, daily quests and treasure hunts will not last until April/March.


The idea of the game was to promote the armoury system "No need for an alternative character!". We're getting into the generic MMO pattern of locking people out of content which makes it useless for the rest of the week.
It's only feasible to currently gear one of your classes currently, and as of 2.1 you can get a piece of week for your alternative choice.

It's settling into the 'I'll log in Mon/Tue to do these things, and then sit a twiddle my thumbs for the rest of the week'.

How is this considered good?

It will take 5 weeks to gear one class ASSUMING there's only five pieces of gear.
Assuming there's 6 set of gear for all nine individual jobs, it would take around 30 weeks to gear them all.

So instead of The Crystal Tower becoming a viable 'catch-up on coil' option, its become another raid-lock out for vanity pieces, as at this rate you can gear faster in coil than you can in the tower, it's ridiculous.

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If you are doing turns 1-5 each week then do you really need full CT gear for your alts to go do coil? Among all that coil running each week I'd hope that your execution would improve to the point that you need maybe 1 or two pieces of CT gear to get a good start in coil.

In your post it seems like you on one hand complain that you can't gear up multiple classes fast enough... but you also complain that content will not last until March/April.
Which is it? do you want to gear faster (and as a result burn through content faster) or do you want content to last?

Personally I wouldn't want to raid more than one, maybe two nights a week, but if you want to put yourself through multiple nights of raiding I think you should have the right to. Just don't complain when you run out of content because SE removed the speed limits at your request.


MMO's are just an elaborate game of resources. Developers create "capacity" (that is, content for players to complete) and then determine the maximum rates at which they can be filled/completed. They can only release new capacity periodically as they can create it. therefore it's in their best interest to make sure the majority of players get to capacity just before new content comes out, other wise people leave until there's new capacity to be filled.

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Originally Posted by Vanidin

If you are doing turns 1-5 each week then do you really need full CT gear for your alts to go do coil? Among all that coil running each week I'd hope that your execution would improve to the point that you need maybe 1 or two pieces of CT gear to get a good start in coil.

In your post it seems like you on one hand complain that you can't gear up multiple classes fast enough... but you also complain that content will not last until March/April.
Which is it? do you want to gear faster (and as a result burn through content faster) or do you want content to last?

Personally I wouldn't want to raid more than one, maybe two nights a week, but if you want to put yourself through multiple nights of raiding I think you should have the right to. Just don't complain when you run out of content because SE removed the speed limits at your request.

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I don't know about Shioban, but to me I have two responses for that.

- I do need somewhat decent gear for coil, as stated in the thread previously, I'd love to be able to do Twintania as something other than PLD, but to do so requires a baseline amount of gear. It is not something you can do with just one or two pieces of i90.

- I'd rather be able to go and proceed through content at my own pace than to have artificial limitations, I'd rather be able to completely clear all the content available to me in a few months and then be allowed to do whatever I want, play another game or something while I wait for either an update or for a friend to tell me to log in and help them. Currently, the cynic in me sees lockouts and Myth caps simply as a way to keep the player logged in every week. I'd be much happier and more willing to log in if I knew I'd be doing it for extended play sessions than a single 2 hour session each week and then log out.

- Finally, I made this thread because Crystal Tower was originally advertised as "A way to catch up and prepare for coil if you can't do it in Darklight", I made this thread to both point out the flaws/lies in that original advertisement, and to say something for those that haven't spoken up yet, because I guarantee you there are people out there that would love to do coil, but either aren't geared or skilled enough to do it currently, Crystal Tower was always for those people (or at least the gear was). Now those people upon release of 2.1 have to wait an additional 5 weeks after already waiting 3 months? Do you think that's right?

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Originally Posted by Vanidin

If you are doing turns 1-5 each week then do you really need full CT gear for your alts to go do coil? Among all that coil running each week I'd hope that your execution would improve to the point that you need maybe 1 or two pieces of CT gear to get a good start in coil.

In your post it seems like you on one hand complain that you can't gear up multiple classes fast enough... but you also complain that content will not last until March/April.
Which is it? do you want to gear faster (and as a result burn through content faster) or do you want content to last?

Personally I wouldn't want to raid more than one, maybe two nights a week, but if you want to put yourself through multiple nights of raiding I think you should have the right to. Just don't complain when you run out of content because SE removed the speed limits at your request.


MMO's are just an elaborate game of resources. Developers create "capacity" (that is, content for players to complete) and then determine the maximum rates at which they can be filled/completed. They can only release new capacity periodically as they can create it. therefore it's in their best interest to make sure the majority of players get to capacity just before new content comes out, other wise people leave until there's new capacity to be filled.

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I may have brought this across wrong, I don't raid every-night, nor do I intend to.

TBC drops aren't /set/ there's no guarantee that my main/alt will get gear, even if I do T1-5.

The implied intention of The Crystal Tower was something that we could use to fill in the missing gear and gear alternative jobs. I'd rather have a system where we could try The Crystal Tower a few days during the week and lot on drops, rather than a set 'locked' piece each week. What we'd have is the loot roulette as with The Binding Coil of 'I may or may not get gear', but without the lock-out of The Binding Coil.

The problem I'm mentioning is that it'll only be viable to run once or twice a week now depending on how the loot drops system works, meaning for the rest of the week The Crystal Tower is pointless to run, that's my issue.
"Oh guys, I got my BLM feet. lolwut Crystal Tower, that's for next Monday!"

It's the same situation as The Wanders Palace; "lol i'm capped, get rekt dudes"

My worry isn't really that we'll run out of content, it's that the content is locking us out, you're not getting anything for it. ONE piece of gear per week is not going to make you want to do it once you get your piece for the week.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Yeah, horizontal progression is FAR better than the current one-track vertical progression. The lack of any real choices in armor is my biggest complaint about this game.

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It gives more purpose of doing all levels of dungeons and activities too. I think if the current lock out system was working with horizontal progression loot, there would be less complaining about doing dungeons for lower iLevel loot.