DON"T DO IT !

Ummmm
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...-Christmas.gif

Quote edited cause its easier to read this way:

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Originally Posted by YourAgSshouldBeDisplayed

*stomps foot and throws a hissy fit* Why can't you see it my way.

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http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...-Spongebob.gif

hilarious posts

sorry lemor you were right. but ya gotta use unchained some time. Blood bath was missing from that rotation that's why it was confusing.

And leoric you are a paladin and have absolutely no credibility on this thread. You can talk till your blue in the face and post all the bull you want but its still coming from a paladin for which not a single warrior gives two cents about. nice try but owned.

Joined date is on the forums nubs.

And lastly I love how all these idiots boil it down to DPS and paladin think they do more dps than a warrior GREAT laughs. This is about the changes. All you paladins can be but hurt about dps all you want no one cares. I mad cause I don't want your life. I don't want your lame mitigation and Yeah WHM need to cast stone skin. I do it and I don't run out of mana so suck it WHM's that dunno how to play your job.

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Originally Posted by YourAgSshouldBeDisplayed

Perfect example someone that dunno anything. Might want to read your ability again.

And leoric you are a paladin and have absolutely no credibility on this thread You can talk till your blue in the face and post all the bull you want but its still comming from a paladin for which not a single warrior gives two cents about. nice try but owned.

Joined date is on the forums nubs.

And lastly i love how all these idiots boil it down to DPS and paladin think they do more dps than a warrior GREAT laughs. This is about the changes all you paladins can be but hurt about dps all you want no one cares. I mad cause I don't want your life. I don't want your lame mitigation and Yeah WHM need to cast stone skin. I do it and I don't run out of mana so suck it WHM's that dunno how to play your job.

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umm lol.. you should probably check again.. inner beast and steel cyclone already ignore the defiance damage penalty. I dont understand how you keep saying that mitigation is too PLD'y.. but instead, you want the CHANCE to mitigate the same amount of damage. And lets be serious, i dont care how many pieces of lv.90 you have, if you honestly dont feel like you are making battles harder for your group, you are delusional. It doesnt matter that your group can win battles (because mine can too) but i know it would be far easier if i were pld.. thats why changes need to be made.

yeah your right im an idiot but i cant be right all the time _ i swear i read it right before i posted DERPTY DERP


Its totally paladin, if anything like i said they could make us good at parry. make STR actually affect the amount parried like it says and not just a flat 23% rate. I don't want % mitigation I should have just rolled a paladin instead.

I want a dps tank class with self heals like I started at beta. Now your changing the whole essence of my class and no matter what you change paladin is better so why give me a couple moves that homogenize me toward the paladin and arn't gonna make me equal or better.

I will not be-able to solo dungeon bosses from 50% when they make these changes. I wont be-able carry bad healers like I do right now. All your doing is making me regret making a warrior spending my myth on him; I should have made a paladin like I've been saying the whole time.

it boils down to utility and paladins with silence and stun are more desired. but doesn't mean warriors can't and don't get it done. And no i don't think i make it harder for my group. I think SE made it harder for my group.

Everyone wants to run 2 paladins and 2 bards in coils for easy mode and it's kinda a joke. Giving me % mitigation isnt gonna change that.

i still dont have silence for ADS or invulnerability for when the snake has 5 stacks but still some how the paladin always dies and i live weird how that is. . . .

I agree, i want self heals to actually be good too, but i also dont want to feel like i hold my party back. With anything you are fighting where you can survive with that bad of a healer, it doesnt matter anyways, but in coil i promise you arent carrying any bad healers, those healers are carrying extra weight because we cant block damage, and our strongest heal usually heals less than half the damage of a single auto attack. Just like last night in turn 1, the fight went longer than usual, and i ate a 4.5k hood swipe followed by a 3k crit, and because i wasnt completely capped off (it was at 5 stacks) i pretty much went from 90% hp to dead in a second and a half. This is where mitigation shines and self heals dont matter.

Also twintania, sure 1 or 2 wars have tanked it (and because this is an accomplishment, just shows how bad war is right now) but death sentence does like 90% of your health. For a war, this means that unless you sneak in an IB or get cured between death sentence and an auto attack, you die. PLD doesnt take nearly as much damage because that 90% damage is reduced by a native 20%, and further reduced if they use cooldowns. So a pld takes around 3k from death sentence without blocking or parrying, while i take 7.7k. Again, where self heals are worth using, they arent effective.

Dont blame SE for changing the way war works, blame them for making PLD the way they did. Honestly if they thought pld was balanced with warrior, this game would be SO much harder had it been properly done. But who would ever think that plds would use their magic "turn off damage" buttons to you know.. not take damage?

I will also miss self healing through bosses while the healer just tosses out damage but...I will enjoy being equally effective as Paladin on content that I'm not completely over geared for.

And that's my argument entirely If anything, make me a better self healer. I'm pretty good with using inner beast and having my healer keep stone skin on me and it works great for my group. if you people don't think stone skin is the bomb you need to watch the WHM tank titan and get back with me.

Increasing our chance to parry for a duration where we are parrying every other attack and even quite a few in a row would be awesome. I'd rather have that than a homogenized, here warriors you suck take 20% less damage and 20% more healing. that's lazy IMO. I don't want a paladin. I want something different. I played a different class for a reason, i want the more challenging role not that I win button. Any 5 year old can tank with a paladin but not everyone can play a warrior to its potential.


All im getting at is that Warriors mitigation could revolve around parry and that would be totally cool with me.

What i dont like about that is just that you only have a chance to get the same results as just the mitigation. Parry would have to negate more than the 23% or whatever damage to balance it out. Just the problem with self heals is that warrior takes SO much damage that sometimes you just explode. you can have all the heal buttons in the world but if you take damage too fast, you die.

I do not believe anyone should respond to Ags'.

Self-Heal issue is that our HP is not high enough to allow us to be Self Heal tanks either. If Twintania hits us for 7.8K, we WILL die. Not 100% of the time, but we won't survive 100% of the time either. The margin for error is so minuscule, that we need to be at 100% HP at all times. Only way we can be blood tanks (Which is NOT the warrior concept... Please stop that, it was always Dark Knight) We need FAR more HP from Defiance. 65-75% instead of 25%.

Also you said youve been a warrior since Beta... thats great and all, but ive been a warrior since 1.0. Warrior was never a selfheal tank, it was a rage/rampage job with high HP and damage. It got its self heal from steel cyclone, which everyone knows was ridiculously broken. they took that idea (as to not piss 1.0 warriors off) and tried to make it a semi-self healing tank.. which is not working. In 1.0 even self heal tanking only worked because steel cyclone had a REALLY high crit rate, high damage, a high HP return and was an AoE. against a single mob it was awful.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

What i dont like about that is just that you only have a chance to get the same results as just the mitigation. Parry would have to negate more than the 23% or whatever damage to balance it out. Just the problem with self heals is that warrior takes SO much damage that sometimes you just explode. you can have all the heal buttons in the world but if you take damage too fast, you die.

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True but the idea is that you know when its coming and you heal at that point to avoid dieing right away. But i do understand your point. That's where the parry comes in. They can make it so its more than just a chance and be useful and not take away our healing.

lets not go down the 1.0 route. that game is dead.

leroic your credibility is dead and over with give it a rest and go to the paladin forums no one wants you here.

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Self-Heal issue is that our HP is not high enough to allow us to be Self Heal tanks either. If Twintania hits us for 7.8K, we WILL die. Not 100% of the time, but we won't survive 100% of the time either. The margin for error is so minuscule, that we need to be at 100% HP at all times. Only way we can be blood tanks (Which is NOT the warrior concept... Please stop that, it was always Dark Knight) We need FAR more HP from Defiance. 65-75% instead of 25%.

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i like the sound of that!

The margin of error in this whole game is very tiny. The servers seem to lac capacity cause i got lots of people that say they are out of shit and get hit by it anyway.

I experience this form time to time as well. Game is unforgiving and heartless. Seems like if they gave about 1/5 more of a second people wouldn't have trouble getting out the way of attacks.

If anyone noticed they slowed down the garuda and ifrit HM fights, i don't see a problem with doing that across the board. I shouldn't have to predict when a move is going off then move its kinda pain in the ass.

the problem is that twintania's death sentence deals a percentage of your max hp, if you have 20khp,it'll deal 18k dmg.

and btw, the only reason 1.0 is dead is because only a complete reboot would stir up enough commotion to get interest back. Had 1.0 launched in a tolerable state it would have never closed. I don't know anyone that played during the final year of 1.0 that thinks ARR is a better game. battle, difficulty, appearance, cutscenes, realism, expansive world, everything about it was better. it had its issues, copy/paste world, horrible framework and server lag (that we still have btw), but overall ARR was a couple of steps back. The only people that don't agree were people who quit after the botched launch or were only told how bad it was.


edit: max hp.. not damage.. fail

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

the problem is that twintania's death sentence deals a percentage of your max damage, if you have 20khp,it'll deal 18k dmg.

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I was under the false impression that it was 8000 Damage pre mitigation. Thanks for that insight. =)

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Originally Posted by YourAgSshouldBeDisplayed

its not a buff to warriors not even a little bit. What it is, is a shameful attempt to make a hard class easier to play for the masses.

The changes make us paladins not warriors. If i wanted to play a paladin I would have made one.

So instead, they take the essence of the warrior job(inner beast) and shit on it and toss us some crap paladin abilities.


VERY UN happy warrior.

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yes feels like war is selling their soul for likes but still is the coolest of tanks.
its just too much stress on healers and player, war may do it with style but plds at the moment are much more effective when the heat is on.

looking forward to play the revamp war, <3 comes in different shapes buts still luv :cool:

Abilities behave similar but are still executed differently. I still have to actively push buttons to maintain mitigation. PLD have a bunch of theirs passively built in. I play a WAR tank to actively participate in doing my job. Not hating on PLD here, just pointing out that they remain different if similar in functionality.

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Originally Posted by YourAgSshouldBeDisplayed

I want a dps tank class with self heals like I started at beta.

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There were no jobs in phase 2 and phase 3. There was no MRD at all in phase 2. Until release, nobody had the chance to toy with Inner Beast proper as it was buffed considerably between phase 3 and phase 4 (open beta). During phase 3, the recovery was 100% of 260 potency, which is less than the proposed 2.1 version. In phase 3, Maim was 10% and Maim/SE potencies were lower (180 for maim and 230 for Storm's Eye, as I recall), and the damage reductions on Defiance and Shield Oath were greater -- 35% and 30%, respectively. WAR has never been a "DPS tank class" at all.

What WAR should be is a matter of opinion, but you're pining for a past that never was.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

the problem is that twintania's death sentence deals a percentage of your max hp, if you have 20khp,it'll deal 18k dmg.

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wait.... really?

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Originally Posted by Vmage

wait.... really?

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The more I look into it, the less I feel that it's true. I believe now that Twintania hits with Death Sentence in Phase 1 for 4.5K, then 7.5-8K in Phase 2 and onward. (Pre Mitigation)

I'm looking forward to the Warrior changes. I believe they will be an excellent fix based on my current experience with ff14 (albeit rather limited in comparison to other forum members) and my experience as a tank in other mmos.

It's common knowledge that a tank's main priority is enmity/agro/hate/threat. Secondary to this, a tank's class specific skills then come into play ie defensive buffs (aka mitigation) leeching (aka health regeneration) etcetera. Tertiary to this, little "niches" or "group benefits" can come into play and often do ie additional dps/stunning-rooting-silencing-etc/debuff wiping/etcetera.

It sounds like to me, these changes will help fix the Warrior's biggest problem (critical damage taken) while still allowing for self heals to be relevant to their skill set.

That's my 2 sense anyway.

If you think a warrior with your gear can fight a 4 stack dreadnought without draining a white mages manapool then let me be the first to tell you that you are mistaken. A PLD clearly needs less healing by a ridiculous margin. I'm not playing my class like crap either since that seems to be your fall back here. There are things that the warrior simply can not do that the PLD can. The end game dungeons were balanced around the idea that any mobs with more than 3 stacks should be killing your tank. For warriors this is largely true. PLD are OP with all their cooldowns and they are actually able to survive well past those 3 stacks. Nothing you or any other player does will ever make that doable. Even on caduceus you should have noticed you require more healing on the split phase than the pld did. Each extra cure is mp wasted that otherwise would have been conserved if you were replaced by a pld. One thing I've noticed is that it gets easier as I get more gear, but you know what? The pld was able to do things easier than I was when he was just in darklight alone. They scale far far better against mobs even when using lesser gear.

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Originally Posted by YourAgSshouldBeDisplayed

leroic your credibility is dead and over with give it a rest and go to the paladin forums no one wants you here.

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He has warrior leveled as well actually including having the relic so...............

Also, I am just now leveling up my Warrior so I can't say as much as you have but seriously, "but" is a conjunction, "butt" is the word we use when referring to someones posterior. So I doubt any one is "but hurt".

I know correcting something like that is kinda childish but it bugged me the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Maku

He has warrior leveled as well actually including having the relic so...............

Also, I am just now leveling up my Warrior so I can't say as much as you have but seriously, "but" is a conjunction, "butt" is the word we use when referring to someones posterior. So I doubt any one is "but hurt".

I know correcting something like that is kinda childish but it bugged me the whole time.

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Glad you can focus on the important issue.

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Originally Posted by YourAgSshouldBeDisplayed

Glad you can focus on the important issue.

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lol, like this thread is an important issue.

I am a L50 Warrior and OP's changes are wrong

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Originally Posted by Devils

lol, like this thread is an important issue.

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wow you deserve a clever cookie +1 to you.

Why is this thread still going?

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

The more I look into it, the less I feel that it's true. I believe now that Twintania hits with Death Sentence in Phase 1 for 4.5K, then 7.5-8K in Phase 2 and onward. (Pre Mitigation)

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I just fought twintania again last night, i ate a 7.6k death sentence without defiance on (i had 6.8khp) so i guess i was wrong. but its still ridiculous that an attack that deals nearly 8k to war does like 3-4k to a pld.

Well if you got hit for that much, shouldn't the pld in your party get hit for 6.2-6.3k hp?

Or was he effectively getting hit for that much the entire fight, while rotating CDs?

War is gonna need those 2.1 buffs to compete without being geared to the teeth.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

I just fought twintania again last night, i ate a 7.6k death sentence without defiance on (i had 6.8khp) so i guess i was wrong. but its still ridiculous that an attack that deals nearly 8k to war does like 3-4k to a pld.

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Wasn't going to post in here but this misinformation is boggling me. Please stop making up numbers. If you got hit for 7.6k a PLD would get hit for 6080 on PLD without any CDs up. The only reason you'd see lower numbers is because the PLD uses his CDs properly. I can attest to this, as I tank Twintania on my PLD and have gotten hit for these high numbers without a CD on. Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Traek

Wasn't going to post in here but this misinformation is boggling me. Please stop making up numbers. If you got hit for 7.6k a PLD would get hit for 6080 on PLD without any CDs up. The only reason you'd see lower numbers is because the PLD uses his CDs properly. I can attest to this, as I tank Twintania on my PLD and have gotten hit for these high numbers without a CD on. Please look forward to it.

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Why are you blatantly saying things like that? I got hit damn near the same, if not a little higher. (7800) So, what are you posting this for, when Hanabira basically said "Sorry about my misinformation; this is what I got hit for."

Paladins get hit for 6.4K ish then with a CD drop it to 3.8K(Sentinel)-5.2K(Rampart). Give or take a little with Protect as well as Stone Skins helping out. Nothing here is all that brutally misinformed after Hanabira apologized.

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Why are you blatantly saying things like that? I got hit damn near the same, if not a little higher. (7800) So, what are you posting this for, when Hanabira basically said "Sorry about my misinformation; this is what I got hit for."

Paladins get hit for 6.4K ish then with a CD drop it to 3.8K(Sentinel)-5.2K(Rampart). Give or take a little with Protect as well as Stone Skins helping out. Nothing here is all that brutally misinformed after Hanabira apologized.

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Saying it isn't fair PLDs get hit for 4k from Death Sentence while you get hit for 7.8k is disingenuous. That is misinformation as the PLD has blown a CD and you have not. If you are going to start arguing about PLD CD suite being much better then WAR, then you are beating the dead horse, and it is why people crying about their IB heal being changed to 20% DR are short sighted.

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Originally Posted by Traek

Saying it isn't fair PLDs get hit for 4k from Death Sentence while you get hit for 7.8k is disingenuous. That is misinformation as the PLD has blown a CD and you have not. If you are going to start arguing about PLD CD suite being much better then WAR, then you are beating the dead horse, and it is why people crying about their IB heal being changed to 20% DR are short sighted.

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Well, without the changed warriors are getting, it IS ridiculous if were meant to use IB to mitigate the damage taken... Just more fuel to why the OP is to completely wrong and uninformed. Neither of us are complaining, just pointing out that Warriors NEED this change. You seem to be on an implied crusade. =P Chill out man, and remember what the thread was about, then look at what we were talking about in context.

While it does sound strange I can see where they are coming from. War currently has no mitigation so they will always be taking the higher damage. So saying PLD only takes X damage is kind of true as they would be rotating CDs. War always needs to be above 8k HP to survive. Then they can pop IB to heal. PLD can survive with just above half health in most cases

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Well, without the changed warriors are getting, it IS ridiculous if were meant to use IB to mitigate the damage taken... Just more fuel to why the OP is to completely wrong and uninformed. Neither of us are complaining, just pointing out that Warriors NEED this change. You seem to be on an implied crusade. =P Chill out man, and remember what the thread was about, then look at what we were talking about in context.

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I think we are saying the same thing. I am not a morning person and should probably not post in my current state. Lol Sorry if I'm being a jerk either way. I just read most the posts in this thread and couldn't help but shake my head.

I'm actually going back to my Warrior when 2.1 changes swing in. Only went PLD to help out the raid group, so yes OP is completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Traek

I think we are saying the same thing. I am not a morning person and should probably not post in my current state. Lol Sorry if I'm being a jerk either way. I just read most the posts in this thread and couldn't help but shake my head.

I'm actually going back to my Warrior when 2.1 changes swing in. Only went PLD to help out the raid group, so yes OP is completely wrong.

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Hehe, EXACTLY!
What I was saying to be less offensive to the OP was that we need like greater than 14K HP in order to make Inner Beast in it's current state work out in the long run. But in the end, the changes being made are amazing, and I can't wait until I can be taken seriously on my Main class in Coil 2 weeks down the road. Until then, I just bought 2 Hero Accessories (Belt and Ring) and i'm playing Paladin! >.<

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

I just fought twintania again last night, i ate a 7.6k death sentence without defiance on (i had 6.8khp) so i guess i was wrong. but its still ridiculous that an attack that deals nearly 8k to war does like 3-4k to a pld.

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It only hits for that low if Paladin pops something or some kind of outside defensive cd is applied. Proof? My Paladin got hit for 6,384 Death Sentence last night with ~1800 auto attack followed up with it. "One shot"