Stop lying to your groups

Going into a fight you don't know and wiping the group because you're too dishonest/prideful/spineless to ask what to watch out for is disgusting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keyblade

Why wouldnt i lie. IF i get into coil by lying then thats great. Id like to see the 7 other ppl qq just cause im new.
Especially if ive gone DPS i should be able to get carried and learn the fight or at least fail and get experiance.
Groups saying experiance only deserve ata least 1 new person. How else is anyone going to get a go in coil.

---

Move along, nothing to see here but cancer.

Woah... I'm agreeing with Keyblade. What magick is this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ispano

The same way those experienced players did. By making a group and going in. Not by lying to other experienced players, which early on there were none. They made their own groups. They put in the time and effort, and they can choose if they want experienced players or not. You don't get to make that decision for them.

---

It's too easy to "form your own group" when most of the community is new at it.
Just like it's so easy to ask for "experienced onry" after you had the opportunity of seeing it.

Then again, "easy" is the key word for modern MMORPG players... "easy" and "fast".

I think the major problem with most of these groups that shout for “experienced players only” are remembering the negative sides of learning content and not the positive aspects as well.

There are those (not all obviously) that will get that first Titan win or Coil turn clear and instantly start shouting for experienced groups the next time, as if the previous runs they went on before they weren’t learning the content themselves, and likely either had someone who had done the fight or found the info elsewhere (this obviously doesn’t apply to first time fresh content where EVERYONE is learning at the same time and NOBODY is shouting for experienced groups).


This kind of leads to two points the first being…



Don’t queue into Duty Finder if you’re expecting experienced groups / speed runs.


Just don’t, you’ll save yourself the headache.

The DF is intended for people to learn and complete content on the average level, it’s designed for people to hop in, pick up, and learn content and in some cases become comfortable enough with the mechanics of something to pass them along to their friends and maybe queue in with a premade.

The DF is NOT designed for you to barrel through a speed run while yelling at the poor WHM that just hit 50 to cure you as you sit there tanking half of WP on their first time in.

Shocker, I know.

If you want a speed run or quick clears or experienced groups for anything that uses the duty finder (everything but coil) then do yourself and the poor WHM a favor.


Make a premade.


Which leads me to my second point…


Have honest and fair expectations when making a shout group.


Now understand I still stand by my previous comment here:

“The ONLY group you are entitled to be a part of is the one you have created yourself.”

And while I can see why people who shout for experienced members only do so under the (mostly false) impression that it will lead to more successful runs, this isn’t always the case if anything it kind of comes off as lazy more often than not.

If someone is geared (not over geared, this will become more apparent when iLVL restrictions are in place) for content and willing to learn there really isn’t a reason not to take them in.

Keep in mind the fact that you are shouting for a group at this point means one of two things

A) You are unable to fill your group with members from your FC / LS(s) for any number of reasons.
B) You aren’t in an FC / LS(s)

Assuming that someone wants to do say… Coil and they’re in an FC and/or a few LS(s) it stands to reason that they would fill with those members first and then try to shout for extra’s, 9 out of 10 times this is the case.

Meaning you’re asking someone to come fill a spot you otherwise have empty; assuming you and the people you started with are experienced enough to win the fight already it shouldn’t matter if the person you get is an expert as long as they have appropriate gear, unless of course the opposite is true and you’re only asking for experienced members to join your groups to carry you.

Oh and if your point is “We don’t have time to teach etc etc”

You’ll waste more time turning people away than you will giving out a few pointers here and there in regards to mechanics on most fights (assuming you’re calling out this stuff anyway which more often than not you should be)
And the best part?

If you’re lucky the person you spent the time to grab and teach may even perform well, in fact if it goes well enough you might even recruit them to your FC / LS and have one less person to shout for when it comes to future runs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Woah... I'm agreeing with Keyblade. What magick is this.



It's too easy to "form your own group" when most of the community is new at it.
Just like it's so easy to ask for "experienced onry" after you had the opportunity of seeing it.

Then again, "easy" is the key word for modern MMORPG players... "easy" and "fast".

---

You still don't get to make the decision for them. The problem here, people are asking for experienced players. Ok, nothing really special there. The problem comes when someone comes in and says they are, when they're not. They're FORCING their choice of coming inexperienced to a group that is requesting experienced. You are forcing your decision. And in something that's not DF accessible, this can easily lead to hitting a blacklist. I already know people on our server that are making one. Easy, difficult, doesn't matter. The problem is you feel your decision to barge in is more important than 7 other people's decision to want someone experienced. You are wrong, period.

i think its more a 2 way street,
What ive seen happen is someone ask for help, like a strategy and the tank says "Get lost scrub" and leaves the group. Its most likely the reason why most first timers dont ask what to do in higher dungeon/primal fights. Most pricks just think they should already know the strategy and stuff to do.

Then if the team gets wiped, by an honest mistake, you will have pricks who just up and leave on first wipe. This is essentially annoying during HM primal fights as you can not replenish your members

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gintoki88

i think its more a 2 way street,
What ive seen happen is someone ask for help, like a strategy and the tank says "Get lost scrub" and leaves the group. Its most likely the reason why most first timers dont ask what to do in higher dungeon/primal fights. Most pricks just think they should already know the strategy and stuff to do.

Then if the team gets wiped, by an honest mistake, you will have pricks who just up and leave on first wipe. This is essentially annoying during HM primal fights as you can not replenish your members

---

The problem is that by lying, you become just as bad the the people you described. I grew thick skin to people online a long time ago. If i'm new, or have doubts, etc, I will make them known. If some blowhard has an issue, I don't let it bother me. But it's disrespectful to go in under the presumption I know what i'm doing, when I don't. It's disrespectful to 3 or 7. That's something truly selfish people do, and I won't have any part of it, from either side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razzle

Agreed. There is a reason people "lie"... And it's the "experienced" players that's at fault. Personally I never lied just cause I couldn't care less, I can always find a group. If not "experienced" then "inexperienced"... Both will get a win eventually.

---

It's not the experienced people's fault. It's the "special"(So as to not use something more vulgar) people. And even then? Not their fault either. The problem is you want to place blame on someone else. Even if those people were rude, jumped ship at the first word of someone new, etc. It's STILL the liars fault for lying that they are experienced when they are not. Period.

I hate explaining Demon Wall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryel

“But I don’t say anything / lie because shout groups are asking for Relic +1 Pomeranians experienced in advanced fire hoop jumping and all I know how to play is the tuba”

---

I'm now advertising I want Relic+1 Pomeranians or bust.

But I completley agree, if you lie we'll find out, it's easier to just say "I've never done it before, would be okay with showing me how it's done?"

It's 10x better to ask and probably get accepted in anway than weasel your way into it, sure you'll get a few people that'll say no, but eventually someone will take you.
Alternatively shout for a "Amdapor Keep, Normal Run"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keyblade

Why wouldnt i lie. IF i get into coil by lying then thats great. Id like to see the 7 other ppl qq just cause im new.
Especially if ive gone DPS i should be able to get carried and learn the fight or at least fail and get experiance.
Groups saying experiance only deserve ata least 1 new person. How else is anyone going to get a go in coil.

---

How obstinate of you, seven other players probably wouldn't mind showing you how to do it if you simply said "I'm not sure how this fight goes, can you guys show me how it works, it doesn't look too hard from the video, learning it in-game is easier I think though" VERY few groups will refuse you IF you are polite and considerate.

Going in with "lol, dem idiuts will cari m 2 turn 5 an i get alhagun wepun, h-huuuuuuuuuuh" will only leave you with a red-bottom when your team realises you have no clue what your doing after you eat your third balast, piercing laser or wiping the party to Allagan Rot.

Way to go /slowclap teamwork in a nut-shell.


In terms of 'How else do I get into a coil group?', you simply ask "My Paladin is geared and i'm willing to learn the fight, would you mind letting me come and show me how the fights works?" if they refuse you, you ask another.


Alternately, find a free-company, join as [job name here] and let them teach you and nurture you and gear you up and rainbows will be flying out of your arse when you realise "This is better this way!"

let me guess: happens in NA servers only? lol

Here's a funny tid-bit: Back when I do my pld relic, I joined df Titan thinking just for practice only. Didn't say much except say Hello. Next thing I know, the group won it and nailed my relic instantly.

So I guess 'Silence is Golden' eh? XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StarMarmot

This is VERY far from the norm.

---

Agreed. There is a reason people "lie"... And it's the "experienced" players that's at fault. Personally I never lied just cause I couldn't care less, I can always find a group. If not "experienced" then "inexperienced"... Both will get a win eventually.

Running into people with Garuda/Titan/Relic weapons who don't know how how Chimera, or Hydra, or Garuda adds work. Running into people with Relic weapons who do not dodge Imminent Catastrophe ever. I auto-assume everyone is inept at Titan regardless of gearing level, but the short version is...

I try to ask if people are new when coming to content where -their- mistakes can kill everyone else. Otherwise, if they're silent, I assume they either know or will learn the hard way. That said, it is incredibly frustrating when you actually ask people if they know content simply because you wish to explain it to them, and they flat out lie to you.

It goes both ways. They lie to actually get into a group and then die. The other players bm him instead of explaining what to do. And then you can't at first explain because there are already two kinds of people, one patient enough to help you or just flat out trash talk and leave you... so they lie.

1] People lie... get experience... then its no longer a lie.

2] People don't lie.. tank rage quits because new person.

3] People don't lie.. gets helpful group.. gets experience.. didn't lie.

4] People Lie, start their own group, demand relic's and experience, get their own experience.

1) is the easiest thing to do.

2) happens WAY more often than 3).

Causes 4).

I tell people if I'm new and I've yet to encounter someone not willing to give me at least a quick rundown. For the same reason you stated: I don't want to be dead weight to the team. I hate the thought of being carried. I wouldn't learn anything AND I wouldn't be able to teach anyone else when it's my turn to give the rundown.

The reason a lot of people lie about knowing a dungeon is the stigma that's attached to not knowing something. In life in general. As if it was the biggest crime you could commit. Knowledge is not innate, we all gotta learn something at some point. But others can give you a hard time about it. You're a noob, a rookie, a greenhorn...

Shame cause spending 1-2 minutes explaining will save you a lot of time overall. If you think about it, every time you explain a run to someone, that person will in turn be able to explain it to others who will themselves be able to do the same. Snowball effect. You end up less likely to meet people who don't know. And it could be because you took time to explain it to one particular person.

If you don't care to explain, if you don't care to learn, well, pay for it.

To me that's a given.


EDIT: Yknow, I realised I kinda pointed the finger at those who already know, but won't share. That still stands, but I'd like to add that if you don't go on the interwebs and look for guides to AT LEAST get SOME idea of what you're getting yourself into, you're just as bad. Again a little work on both sides saves a lot of troubles.

I think the biggest thing about being lied to is that it's very insulting. Then from that it makes it harder for you to accept the liar's mistakes, because they lied. If someone says it's their first time in Coil, Titan HM etc. Then it is much easier to forgive their mistakes when they miss a silence or get hit by a landslide. However if they've lied about being experienced, not only will you be annoyed because you'd expect better from them, but the feeling will be amplified if it's obvious they've lied.

If people are asking for experience, please don't lie. Yes, there are parties out there who only want experience. But there are also those who will be fine with teaching you the fight.

When I ever tell people to lie, it's for DF groups, and you really will be surprised at how many DF groups finish before they start because someone says "hi there, my first time on this dungeon" so the tanks and healers bolt, afterall they can get a party in no time, then we get a lovely issue of people complaining on here that they can't do anything because of the few asses. If people prepare for runs the impact should be minimal.

I would never say to lie for premade parties, but when you see people leaving DF groups because people lack experience it's either lie or don't experience content.

When I was struggling to pug my way through Titan HM with my measly ilvl55 GC sword (all primals hated me despite over 50 primal runs) I never lied and never had problems getting into pugs looking for a tank, which are actually hard to find. I just said I knew how to tank it and could hold aggro, though I had so far not completed it. All true.

Edit: of course, tanking Titan HM is stupidly simple, as long as you pass the gear check (I was in DL+ armour), and know to hit a cool down before each MB. The challenge was finding a group who could do it and that took about two full days of pugging.

I must be weird. I love having new people in my party (not saying under geared or unprepared in general though). If they ask, I try to help as much as possible so they can do well. People who are new to dungeons are more often than not nicer about things. Hell, I'll even offer any advice on their classes if I think it's needed (like a member of my FC needed to us flash more, because he must not have totally understood its benefit).

I love newbies.

What is the point of that? This is a game for crying out loud! Why do people take this stuff so seriously? The things mentioned in this very forum will be the reason why this game will decline quickly. There will only be a few "great players" left to play with each other, how fun is that?

They wouldnt lie if the community wasnt so volatile and unwilling to accept people who havent done it before. The OP is not helping with this situation. It took me weeks to even get my first run of AK in because I would lead off with "Greetings! I'm still new to this instance so any advise or tips are greatly appreciated." then every time people would drop. So much for honesty...

Liars are pathetic. Period - there is no defense of it whatsoever.

I think the problem is that most "experienced" people aren't like the OP. People are taught from the very beginning that people will leave if they find out that you are new. Here is my story:

I was a MRD, and new to the game, as was most everyone else (this was right around release, so everyone was new except for legacy). I queued up for Sastasha, and waited, anxious about my very first dungeon. DF pops, I accept. I felt obligated to be honest with my group, and inform them that I was new, so I did. "This is my first dungeon. Could you please share any special tips that I should know. I read a guide online, but haven't actually run the dungeon yet." I said. Oh wait.. The healer left? And the one DPS? Wow..

The VERY first dungeon, less than a week after release, two people left my DF group because I was new. This is why I can understand people not wanting to be open about being new. That being said, I strongly disagree with flat out lying, especially when joining a pre-made /shout group. But ever since my very first DF experience, I have always been afraid to admit that I am new to a dungeon. I am still honest, because that's just the type of person I am, but I also usually have a healer friend queue with me. Worst case scenario with my own healer is that we have to wait two minutes for another DPS if one quits.

My advice to the people that want honesty in DF; Make it clear that you just want to help. If you just ask "Is anyone new?", then they will likely assume that you are going to quit if they are. I know I still assume people will ditch if they know someone is new.

YOU ARE A NEWBIE
This is the first time you are doing the Dungeon/Primordial, or this is the first time you're doing it as your current job. This is what you have to do, because it's your role as a newbie:
- Try to read a guide or watch a video about the run you want to do. There are some spoiler-free if you want, they will summarize what you should expect and what you need to be aware of.
- Say that you are new and if you will watch the cutscenes (tip: you can skip them and watch them again at the inn).
- Show that you are willing to learn, and learn. What it means is: you have to learn and avoid doing the same mistake twice.
- Check your own gear, repair it if need be. Also, be sure that your gear is suited to the content you want to do. If you can overgear (like, leveling up 45 for Garuda (normal) and doing your job quest, or farming a few FATEs to grab some stuff from your Company), do it. But don't go in if your weapon or most of your armor is obsolete. Reason is: as a tank you might lose aggro, as DPS you might not win some "DPS Race battle", and as a Healer, you might simply die and condemn your party to an avoidable death.

YOU ARE AN EXPERIENCED PLAYER
- Shout for a group/for mates if you want a speedrun. Don't use the Duty Finder or you might meet newbies who won't be able to go as fast as you want.
- Ask if someone is new, because you will need to explain the strategy if someone is.
- Explain the strategy. It's faster to tell people how to do something rather than finding another group, dying over and over again, and even faster that swearing. Newbies role is to learn, yours is to teach.
- You will be a newbie every time you change your job role for a dungeon or a primordial. Your placement won't be the same, your focus will change and the general pace of the battle will be different. You'll also be a newbie each time new content will be released. Don't forget it.
- Welcome newbies. Newbies won't be for long. Being a newbie and being bad is not the same thing. You can meet a great newbie who will learn a lot of stuff on the fly and ends up being one of the best player you ran with so far. He/she might even be better than you in the end.



If you don't do this, whether or not you are a newbie or experienced, I have to inform you that you are a bad player. Therefore you are ugly, no one likes you and you deserve to have bad groups.
However, if you are doing what I just said, you are beautiful and your mom is really proud of you.

Oh, and, don't forget two things:
- the "MVP" system coming in. Being nice and helpful will mostly be rewarded.
- the kicking system. Lying as a newbie or being a hateful experienced player will probably "reward" you with a kick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

Newbies role is to learn, yours is to teach.

---

Wrong. How exactly do you think all of us figured it out? How do you think we became good?

It has something to do about testing content for yourself and developing your own strategies. If you spoon feed a noob you will make that noob a bad player and do him/her a huge disservice. If a noob simply tries to copy what you do verbatim, boot em - they are a lost cause. Provide video tutorials at MOST, do not carry. Ever.

Nowdays, pretty much all you need to get experience with content is watch a video on youtube. Therefor, it's easier to not be horrible.

However, it's funny to go Titan and watch a full P5 experience group eat most of the landslides, plumes and bombs before P5. I guess they indeed had P5 experience but they never got to learn P1-4 ;)

I have a question to those that form pugs or looking for extra members in their Titan/Coil or whatever runs. When you do your shout do you say "lf3m 1 healer 2 dps Titan HM. New players welcome" ?

I imagine if you were upfront about that you'd beless likely to get new people lying. Just a thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Wrong. How exactly do you think all of us figured it out? How do you think we became good?

It has something to do about testing content for yourself and developing your own strategies. If you spoon feed a noob you will make that noob a bad player and do him/her a huge disservice. If a noob simply tries to copy what you do verbatim, boot em - they are a lost cause. Provide video tutorials at MOST, do not carry. Ever.

---

If you know a boss strat and you don't explain it to newbies in your group, then you're terrible. Especially if you are the one complaining about these "newbies".

Also, please read the entire post you're quoting from. I said, in the "You are a newbie" part, the role of the new player is also to try and get as much information as possible before running the dungeon.
But this doesn't replace live feedback and direct explanations from experienced players. It's just complementary.

So now, if you are not willing to share a bit of your knowledge in order for your group to perform well when new players are asking for advice regarding the upcoming battle(s), please leave the game and go play single player titles, because you are not helping anyone, you included.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Wrong. How exactly do you think all of us figured it out? How do you think we became good?

It has something to do about testing content for yourself and developing your own strategies. If you spoon feed a noob you will make that noob a bad player and do him/her a huge disservice. If a noob simply tries to copy what you do verbatim, boot em - they are a lost cause. Provide video tutorials at MOST, do not carry. Ever.

---

well by your own explanation, you must be a bad player if a person trying to emulate your strategies is a reason to be booted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flamds1

well by your own explanation, you must be a bad player if a person trying to emulate your strategies is a reason to be booted.

---

Except for the whole piece where we developed our strategy together, as a group - copying no one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

If you know a boss strat and you don't explain it to newbies in your group, then you're terrible. Especially if you are the one complaining about these "newbies".

Also, please read the entire post you're quoting from. I said, in the "You are a newbie" part, the role of the new player is also to try and get as much information as possible before running the dungeon.
But this doesn't replace live feedback and direct explanations from experienced players. It's just complementary.

So now, if you are not willing to share a bit of your knowledge in order for your group to perform well when new players are asking for advice regarding the upcoming battle(s), please leave the game and go play single player titles, because you are not helping anyone, you included.

---

Ridiculous. You do realize that there are several different valid general strategies for every turn before you even consider the composition of the party - right? I don't want my FC copying my groups strategy because we don't run a BLM/SMN. If another raid group does - you should adjust accordingly. We explain mechanics and how we handled them. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

Also - you clearly didn't read my entire post.

Unfortunately people leaving DF because someone has spoken up about being new to an instance is something that can happen but is ultimately beyond their control (No lying doesn’t really stop this as they’ll just do it to the next person).

There’s nothing wrong with nor should anyone be ashamed of being new to content

Keep in mind I’m also not suggesting that people have to enter every instance with a giant flag over their heads saying “I’ve never been here” I get that some people don’t want to be put on the spot like that, and its fine, once again I feel the Duty Finder is a learning environment.

The Issue arises when a specific question is posed to the party and either nobody responds or they flat out lie about it.

“Has everyone done this fight before?”

If a person lies in response to or says nothing to this at all then they are causing a bigger problem than the one caused by those who ditch the DF, this is further amplified if they are playing a VITAL role in the party composition (See: TANK / HEALER)

If you are a healer or a tank and enter Titan and have no idea what you’re supposed to do, say nothing, and proceed to die the entire fight, you are now a liability to the 7 other people who want to do the content as bad as you do.


Your refusal to be open and honest about the situation is essentially robbing the rest of the group of a fighting chance.


There’s a reason that the DF gives us 90 minutes on most encounters that average groups of appropriately geared players can clear in half the time or less (in some cases even a fraction of the time) It’s there so that if things need to be explained or attempted multiple times you have the leeway to do so, you are essentially provided with TIME TO LEARN.


And as for experience?


What experience are you getting if you enter say... Titan, die early in the fight, and get carried to a win, especially if no mechanics were explained to you.

None.

After the initial glow of completing your Relic fades off (it will eventually) and you decide to go do Titan again whether it be for yourself or to help someone else you will now have no idea how to perform and will be no better off than your first attempt.

This is why it’s an issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Ridiculous. You do realize that there are several different valid general strategies for every turn before you even consider the composition of the party - right? I don't want my FC copying my groups strategy because we don't run a BLM/SMN. If another raid group does - you should adjust accordingly. We explain mechanics and how we handled them. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

Also - you clearly didn't read my entire post.

---

Your post was, in short: "Don't explain things to newbies. Let them take some hits so they will learn that way". This the most absurd thing I've ever read.
Are you going to say the same to your kids? "I didn't tell them running on the road was dangerous. I knew it was, but I think it's better if they learn by themselves" (yes, I know, comparing a real life situation to a game, what a silly thing to do).

I'm not talking about spoonfeeding here (which is a wonderful term to use after my "children" comparison. If you don't "spoonfeed" your children, they will starve and die.), I'm talking about "first necessity" advices.
"The dragon will breath twice instead of a single time when he's at 50% HP, be careful.", "Hey, Tank, it's your first time, so be aware that you will have to move from here, to there at a point of the battle, otherwise we're all dead". That kind of stuff.

Telling this to players who never did the fight doesn't serve them a "huge disservice", as you said. In fact, it can prevent your entire group from getting wiped, just because they will know to be on their guard for that specific moment. Maybe they will respond "Oh, yeah, I already saw that in a video, it should be ok, I'll do my best avoiding it". But, better safe than sorry.

So, as I said, if you are not willing to help new player to have a better understanding about the game (again, I'm not talking about "spoonfeeding" garbage), you are a bad player yourself.

"Let the party wipe a few time to see if they learn", is a terrible way of doing things.

I figure around the 10th or 15th time someone gets:

leader: You know fight?
rando: First time!
leader: No.

Is about when they start lying - and I don't blame them one bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

Your post was, in short: "Don't explain things to newbies. Let them take some hits so they will learn that way". This the most absurd thing I've ever read.

---

You literally can't read. Here's my post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Wrong. How exactly do you think all of us figured it out? How do you think we became good?

It has something to do about testing content for yourself and developing your own strategies. If you spoon feed a noob you will make that noob a bad player and do him/her a huge disservice. If a noob simply tries to copy what you do verbatim, boot em - they are a lost cause. Provide video tutorials at MOST, do not carry. Ever.

---

Catch the part about providing video tutorials? You have to accept what works for A won't necessarily work for B, but what A does can influence how B handles things.

I will always advocate that people develop their own play strategies. Unless a coil party has the exact same setup as mine, I will always advise to not do exactly what we do. Rather - I want them to understand why we do what we do. That way, they can develop their own strategy.

This will always be more effective than what you advocate.

Also, yes - I do want Coil groups to wipe initially. I want them to understand why their strategy failed and to think about how they should proceed. You have to let newcomers think for themselves. If they aren't willing to do that, I don't want them with our guild tag.

*Dungeon starts*
Person 1: hello, it's my first time here!
*2 people drop*
*Party's over*

Why in the world would anyone ever say that they are new?
I used to say that I am new up until maybe Castrum.
After that I always try to run a new dungeon with either friends or I'll watch video/read a guide first.
Though my first run with Garuda hard mode was awful because I got 90k'ed twice during the fight x_x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nukocafe

*Dungeon starts*
Person 1: hello, it's my first time here!
*2 people drop*
*Party's over*

Why in the world would anyone ever say that they are new?
I used to say that I am new up until maybe Castrum.
After that I always try to run a new dungeon with either friends or I'll watch video/read a guide first.
Though my first run with Garuda hard mode was awful because I got 90k'ed twice during the fight x_x

---

That's why you try to go in with a group of newcomers. Experience the battle fresh, learn from it. Make a LS of people who you go with. Learn together.

Always admit it if its your first time. If the group breaks or they say no before you even get in, then thank the twelve and find a group with decent helpful players in it.

I always did my first times with my FC to learn them where possible... Now I know the dungeons and primals, I FC, PUG and DF them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

You literally can't read. Here's my post.



Catch the part about providing video tutorials? Try again, before I decide to report you for slander. You have to accept what works for A won't necessarily work for B, but what A does can influence how B handles things.

---

Lol at reporting someone for slander! Are you going to sue for monetary damages too?

Unfortunately, lying doesn't only happen between DF groups. It happened to me in my fc a few weeks ago. Someone in my FC was asking for help with Garuda HM so I and a bunch of other FC mates volunteered to help. We get into Garuda and the person we're helping kept dying a lot. Midway through the dungeon, an LS mate of mine who had fallen into the same trap told me to examine the person's gears and I realized that she was wearing all low level white gear only. We finished it because Garuda is easy if majority of the party knows what to do.

Fast forward a few days later and this same person is asking the FC again for help but this time with titan HM. Recalling my experiences from before, I decide to speak up on FC chat about the person being severely undergeared and she's all "yea I want to be carried". i have no problems with people wanting to be carried but only if they inform their teams beforehand and are open and honest about it. This person just wanted to sneak into groups without letting them know she wasn't going to be contributing. That seriously annoyed me. And of course she got berated by FC mates and no one helped her that day.

Moral of the story? Please be open and honest about your capabilities and your intentions. When you lie, it burns bridges. I'm okay with helping people who are willing to speak up about their deficiencies and learn from me about how they can improve. If you're not going to give me the minimum courtesy of telling me that you're new and need help, then don't blame me if I rage quit mid way through the dungeon either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Except for the whole piece where we developed our strategy together, as a group - copying no one.

Ridiculous. You do realize that there are several different valid general strategies for every turn before you even consider the composition of the party - right? I don't want my FC copying my groups strategy because we don't run a BLM/SMN. If another raid group does - you should adjust accordingly. We explain mechanics and how we handled them. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

Also - you clearly didn't read my entire post.

---

You are confusing. You say "don't copy" but encourage people to look up strategies. I guess you must be new to the MMO genre. Players will always have the "cookie cutter" build/way to do something and if its not done that way, "its wrong!". Take leveling in FFXIV for instance. If you arent doing FATE you are doing it wrong and slow, even though people hate FATES its the "fastest" way to level ergo everyone must do it. It gets to the point where anyone trying to Level up outside of that has to struggle to do so.

What does make sense is you asking that people at least try to get an idea of how things work before entering. But its like any profession in real life. They will not hire you without actual work experience. How do you get work experience if you cannot get a job working in the field without having experience? i agree with another poster in here. Have you seen a single shout saying "LFM Coil turn 1 {no experience necessary}"

As for copying, to me its like when i'm cooking. first time, i follow the recipe to the letter. After i tried it and see how it works, i begin to tweak it to suit my tastes. Same goes for this and other MMO's better to copy someone to see how things work, giving you a base to go by, then tweak it to suit your playstyle. Condemning people for doing things differently than you will not help anyone. It will frustrate you and frustrate them. I wish people were more accepting and understanding instead of impatient and resentful.