BEWARE of PUGing Turn 1! You could get trolled immensely and lose coil priviledges

This is really sick.

They need to implement a confirmation message like everyone here is mentionning.

They also need to make the lock out for Coil apply only to the turns you've actually completed, not the preceding ones.

This right here is why I hate the official forums. They have us locked down tighter then a preschool. Oh that's mean don't do that someone might get upset, hey don't player shame, you might make someone cry.... What is the point of only having one character and one name if SE will defend and protect the douchebags? Once upon a time in other games that didn't have 10 alts people lived and died by their name. They got reputations on our servers. We avoided them. Now we cant do that. I say when player shaming is needed, and it IS needed sometimes, that we should go to another forum and do it. You all know other semi popular used 14 sites, so use em!
Also SE please add lock out warnings so this stops happening. If you wont let us call these people out then you better do something to help us protect ourselves, or in the end you are no better then the ones doing this sort of thing. That's right SE I'm calling you the bully in this case.

People who do this should be suspended for at least a week. They do it purely with malicious intent so it should be against the rules.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

They definitely could add a "confirmation" window for Coil.

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The irony is people in 1.x complained about confirmation windows, so SE made as few as possible since you know, people found it annoying xD.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The irony is people in 1.x complained about confirmation windows, so SE made as few as possible since you know, people found it annoying xD.

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Well, a confirmation window would be useless on other dungeons, but with the lock out that happens in the Coil, you don't just lose 15 minutes by leaving the instance, you lose access to turns 1 to 4 for the whole week, so this is a very different matter.

Wait a sec....

I thought coil only locked you out of a turn if you passed it. For instance, someone could take you to turn 5 and lock you out of creating lower turns but you could join someone else's party and have them put you into turn 1-4.

I've never DF'd coil, so I could very well be wrong - but if it really works the way OP claims that makes almost zero sense.

There should be a prompt that ask "are you sure you want to go in?". This will help avoid a situation as the one that is described by the OP.

Sadly it's true, and it's widespreading. I saw few hours ago players locking out poor victims, inviting them for coil 1 discovering it was even just turn 3 or 4, then all of them leave, locking out the victim.
Where is that jail and item deletion, when needed? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Wait a sec....

I thought coil only locked you out of a turn if you passed it. For instance, someone could take you to turn 5 and lock you out of creating lower turns but you could join someone else's party and have them put you into turn 1-4.

I've never DF'd coil, so I could very well be wrong - but if it really works the way OP claims that makes almost zero sense.

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The moment you enter a turn, your personal progress is set to That Turn and you're unable to lead or be a part of any previous turns.

So in this case if someone was on Turn 5, led the party, and didn't mention it? Yeah they could strand 7 people from T1-4 for the week.

if this is true, this is just stupid, you know what makes this even more sillier, theres like a confirmation for everything else do you want to do this etc for the most trivial of things, but not confirm do you want to continue in this save run...

Would be nice if a (S)GM commented on if reporting such actions results in any punitive actions.

Confirmation message would solve this problem entirely, as said many times in this thread.

But running Coil with FC/LS/friends would also solve this.

This shit needs to get fixed, its such bad design. If you get screwed over, it completely messes everything up as you cant do anything until reset.

Had this happen to a friend, we do Coils often but he couldnt make it one day so he missed 1-2, he was going to do it in a pug to catch up and join us on T4 but he got fucked over and someone entered T5. Now hes completely out of loot for the week.

Really hope this is patched ASAP to have some form of confirmation if you are not currently on that tier and you can decline entering.

In-fact what would be better is if they removed the lockout on entry and made it so lockout was done on completion, so you could do Coils in any order and if you have to skip some you can always go back, once you got the win and chests pop it locks you out out of that specific tier. Honestly thought this be common sense. lol

Isnt this is more an issue with community being occupied by doughbags than design mechanic? I have been reading Japanse fourms and ch2, never see any issue like this reported.

Wow. Terrible. Hotfix incoming.

Instead of throwing you into Turn X, we need another ready check explaining what Turn you're going into, much like when you accept a Duty Finder that has downed a boss or two.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

~snip~

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There is a game where people DO have 10 alts and live or die by their name. Also some semi popular 14 sites prohibit naming names as well *coughredditcough*

It should just lock you out when you beat the turn and/or get the loot and not when you enter the next zone.

And if this happens to you, report it. This is obvious harassment and is likely a bannable offense.

wait what? you're not supposed to get locked in unless you clear that turn

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The irony is people in 1.x complained about confirmation windows, so SE made as few as possible since you know, people found it annoying xD.

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Even more annoying is that they left in unnecessary confirmation dialogue boxes *cough*lift attendants*cough*.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Isnt this is more an issue with community being occupied by doughbags than design mechanic? I have been reading Japanse fourms and ch2, never see any issue like this reported.

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If something is badly designed and can get abused it will get abused, regardless of the players' region. Most japanese players might be less inclined to troll but that doesn't mean the system isn't faulty. I doubt there'll be any punishment or dev response about it let alone a real fix until 2.1, if there's any at all.

I believe when a company plan the rules for their game they use their own values (the japanese int his case) as base to predict what plauers may or maynot do. It's just sad taht we westerns are so low. Since we can't keep a shame list on the official forums we should keep one on third party's forums. A big list divided by servers with names of players that do those kind of stuffs, with screenshots as proof of the crime s nobody will be able to deny it.

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Originally Posted by Elim

People who do this should be suspended for at least a week. They do it purely with malicious intent so it should be against the rules.

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The problem is the proof. There is no way SE can know whether or not 8 people willingly entered a particular turn. Reporting is possible but that just becomes a "he said/she said", sort of thing. And SE would certainly prefer to address this through game mechanics rather than disciplining some of their paying customers.

The fact is, the solution is already in the game. If you have a full party and the party leader enters any other instance, you get the confirmation window. All they have to do is apply that to coil.

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Originally Posted by Brises

The problem is the proof. There is no way SE can know whether or not 8 people willingly entered a particular turn. Reporting is possible but that just becomes a "he said/she said", sort of thing. And SE would certainly prefer to address this through game mechanics rather than disciplining some of their paying customers.

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What about the chat log?

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

What about the chat log?

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In my experience, most game developers are not going to spend a lot of time investigating chat logs and disciplining players when the problem can be resolved through coding. They seriously don't want to alienate anyone unless it's absolutely necessary. they don't need to make coil accessible through df, but they can use the df code that already exists just to throw up a confirmation message. If a fix is that easy they aren't going to discipline anyone, and risk losing their money.

that's why you take screen shots of logs and put in the exact time of when something was said, which server it was said on and in which zone. (the first thing I do in a new MMO is turn on time stamps in chat)

Next time, when joining a PUG shout, ask. Take screenie of the reply.

Don't forget about your timezone and server. I used to translate my timezone to GMT/JP when submitting bug reports or issues

This is why you should only be locked to a turn when you kill a boss.

Suggestions to SE: possible fixes.

1. Change UI.

• a confirmation prompt before entering. (requires 1 click, no mechanics change)
  (boss_status = "KILLED" OR "AVAILABLE")
  
  Quote:

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  Do you want to enter dungeon_name Turn turn_#?
  boss_#1_name: boss_status
  boss_#2_name: boss_status
  …
  boss_#n_name: boss_status
  [YES] [NO]

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• OR a simple message upon entering. (no click, visible for 10s, requires changing mechanics, see 2. below)
  (save_condition = "killing an enemy" OR "looting an item"
  
  Quote:

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  You have entered dungeon_name Turn turn_#.
  boss_#1_name: boss_status
  boss_#2_name: boss_status
  …
  boss_#n_name: boss_status
  Progress will be saved upon save_condition in this dungeon.

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2. Change mechanics.

• saving happens when you kill something in the dungeon.
• OR saving happens when you loot something in the dungeon.

—> I'm in favour of a simple message + a mechanic change (saving upon kill).

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Advice for all players.

1. Always screenshot conversations when you think you could need to report harrassment later on.
(with timestamps for easier reference)
This won't be submitted to GM's (screenshots can be altered and do not constitute proof, only logs do), but will help you submitting tickets, and describe or remember issues if a GM contacts you.

2. When you report something (bug) or someone (harassment, cheat) always provide:

• Date/time, ideally in server time (always specify the time reference regardless, such as "GMT" or "Server Time").
• Name of the subject (something or someone). Make no mistake! Again, a screenshot may help you.
• A clear and short description of the issue, to the point (don't tell your life and the weather, simply state the report reason).

3. Always avoid notifying a player that you reported him/her (or wish to do so).

• It would only put oil on fire,
• annoy the other player even more (or give him/her the satisfaction that his/her harassment actually worked),
• and could possibly win you more harassment until that person is dealt with by GM's (but if that didn't happen…).

4. Do not engage in further quarrel.

• Black-list that person if he/she is still annoying you.
• Let GM's deal with problems. Simply submit your report and move on with your life.