Combat will be what kills this game [end of days! redeem! blah blah!]

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Yes, I apologize, some people seem to really like animations. I can't imagine you're truly seeing animations for what they are in all the combat. You're seeing a blend of it all.

Still, asking for abilities to properly take effect is not asking for easier, it's asking for reliable.

When I start pressing the brakes in my car, I want to start slowing down. If I slam on them, I want my car to stop as close to immediately as it can, and I especially want the breaks to work every time I press them. These kids today, wanting driving to be reliable, right?

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you're going way overbroad for comparing a car break and this.

How bout you try like, Jumping and sliding at the same time? Would that work?

or maybe trying doing Spirits Within Move while doing Rage of Halone in real life? since u want to compare break with car and in-game.

We're on coils atm and yes, this sluggish BS they call combat is infuriating. Getting hit by aoes you're clearly outside of, dying after popping hallowed and after resurrection seeing it's now on cool down, melee often unable to hit moving enemies (your attacks cancel mid-animation, even though you are moving with them), hitting a macro and watching abilities cancel or skip entirely. It's gotten that I don't even use macros any more, so unreliable. In fact that's the word for a lot of elements in this games combat system, unreliable.

Not sure if anyone else mentioned it here but you can cancel some of buff animations as an PLD atleast, even when tank&spanking just keep doing small zigzags while using Fight or Flight, Bloodbath, Rampart etc.. and you will skip cast animation itself thus giving you time to choose what skill to use next while waiting GCD.

Combat is actually what make me play the game in the first place. Got the good ol' FF XII feeling but as an mmo with real time action and it's plain awesome. Gonna be a blast in pvp to have a sort of "chess" game where you know you can do things within these 2.5 seconds to prevent the next move from your enemy to be effective while still havin one or two tools in that timeframe.

Style over substance isn't cutting it, no. Fluid gameplay is the most important thing, and hopefully they'll come around. Like when people have their bards and paladins auto attack for entire fights so that they will be able to use their silences/stuns correctly ("Who wants to stun bot?"), you won't see many flashy animations anyway. It's at this point you really should understand something isn't set up correctly.

i almost stopped reading after i saw "TERA" and "AAA MMO" in the same sentence,
that game was a complete mess, awful cutscenes where the lipsynch didnt fit the voice and the english voice didnt say the same as the english subtitle, AAA indeed
almost no gear diversity that only got sluttier every few levels
questing was a poorly duct taped on afterthought, even the oh so praised combat was dull after a few weeks because it was teras only redeeming factor,
even comparing ARR and teras completely different combat styles is just silly as others already pointed out
but enough ranting
sorry for the off topic but i just couldnt let that one slide

on topic,
i personally enjoy the combat of ARR because you can actually think about your next move for a second instead of spamming your moves asap until your fingers bleed,
the raise issue got recognised and gets fixed soon, you should keep up with the dev posts^^

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Fluid gameplay is the most important thing, and hopefully they'll come around. Like when people have their bards and paladins auto attack for entire fights so that they will be able to use their silences/stuns correctly ("Who wants to stun bot?"), you won't see many flashy animations anyway. It's at this point you really should understand something isn't set up correctly.

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Yeah its called personnal timing not setted up correctly. Fights and cooldowns in this game are extremely precise, its up to you to optimise what to do within the timeframes. Blamin gamedesign because well, you suck, sound like a bit exagarated.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Yeah its called personnal timing not setted up correctly. Fights and cooldowns in this game are extremely precise, its up to you to optimise what to do within the timeframes. Blamin gamedesign because well, you suck, sound like a bit exagarated.

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http://cdn.arwrath.com/1/103948.gif

I'm sorry for you ;) People over here dont have a single problem at soloing Ifrit NM / Garuda NM as tanks, bards are silencin stuff while dpsin all the time, that kind of things. It is and always will be relyin strictly on timing. So yeah instead of blamin gamedesign ... -insert a random get better conclusion here-

Your use of "extremely precise" is what had me laughing, the game is demonstrably not.

You want more evidence of the silly lag? Fine.

Cast stoneskin on a target, watch them gain the buff in their short 5-icon bar, they take damage (as in, their hp goes down), and they still have stoneskin.

Some people's blind stammering defense of this just baffles me. Yeah, there's a dozen people in this thread saying it's fine and good, because the people that truly dislike it will quit. They'll go back to other mmos where combat functions smoothly, because you have the right to expect that.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki

i almost stopped reading after i saw "TERA" and "AAA MMO" in the same sentence,
that game was a complete mess, awful cutscenes where the lipsynch didnt fit the voice and the english voice didnt say the same as the english subtitle, AAA indeed

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I won't argue for a single second that beyond the combat, which TERA did better than anyone, and graphics (you might not like the style of art, but the quality of graphics were good), TERA phoned-it-in on everything else. Still, it was a "AAA" mmo. The reason TERA's questing, cs's, etc sucked was because they clearly didn't even try.

Same is true for TSW. The game was AAA, and while the style of art was good, the graphics were pretty good, the questing was what they focused on and phoned-it-in on so much else, especially the combat, that the game quickly fizzled.

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i personally enjoy the combat of ARR because you can actually think about your next move for a second instead of spamming your moves asap until your fingers bleed,
the raise issue got recognised and gets fixed soon, you should keep up with the dev posts^^

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Soon(tm)

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Here's the thing. Cure spells have a cast time, as do nukes. You will always finish waving your staff before your target is healed.

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Know Benediction?
Ever use Swiftcast + Raise or anything other spell?

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Originally Posted by Steeled

You are simply wrong. I raise a person. They get up, hp appears, I start to cast a cure and the cure is deflected to me, and yet my pet can heal them before I can.

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A "raising" player is select-able but no action is applicable: damage and heal included, which is why you won't ever see a player dies DURING the "raising" itself. They only die because the timing they are DONE raising coincides with boss's aoe damage skill, they do not have enough time to move out of range with little hp left.
I play both WHM and SCH, my pet ALWAYS heal before me, because it's AI and AI will act on the exact moment when the target can be healed, while my human timing might be slower. Nothing wrong with that.
If other players have no problem timing heals after raise but you can't, then practice your timing. There is a hint when you did it right: Your character will turn to face the target. If you don't see that happen, then you are too early and the heal is going to yourself.

And what the heck is this?

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Originally Posted by Steeled

I just want you to know that you're saying "SE, please don't give players responsive and reliable combat that other mmos had 6, 10 years ago."

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Combat is responsive and reliable enough outside of the network lag. You are making totally absurd comparisons.
Likewise, I could say something as absurd to you as this:
I just want you to know that you're saying "SE, please remove all graphic and animation, just make a screen of numbers and everything is instant."
See?

Anyway, this is heading nowhere.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Steeled

You want more evidence of the silly lag? Fine.

Cast stoneskin on a target, watch them gain the buff in their short 5-icon bar, they take damage (as in, their hp goes down), and they still have stoneskin.

Some people's blind stammering defense of this just baffles me. Yeah, there's a dozen people in this thread saying it's fine and good, because the people that truly dislike it will quit. They'll go back to other mmos where combat functions smoothly, because you have the right to expect that.

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This is a case of network lag, everyone's mileage is different. It seems to impact you, but not everyone is experiencing it as severely. To this, I can only say it's most unfortunate, I hope your lag resolved soon.
Yes, you have the right to expect fluid combat, provided that there's no network lag.
But as you yourself said, this thread is not about network lag, so don't bring it in.

It has really becoming a trend, that if somebody is not agreeing with a "problem", then they must be "blindly defend" or a "white knight".
Whatever floats your boat.

Seriously, this is heading nowhere...

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTheGuest

Know Benediction?
Ever use Swiftcast + Raise or anything other spell?

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Yeah, Swiftcast is special, and awesome. So yes, I should have said "You will always finish waving your staff [regarding cure spells] before your target is healed, unless you used Swiftcast.".

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A "raising" player is select-able but no action is applicable: damage and heal included, which is why you won't ever see a player dies DURING the "raising" itself. They only die because the timing they are DONE raising coincides with boss's aoe damage skill, they do not have enough time to move out of range with little hp left.
I play both WHM and SCH, my pet ALWAYS heal before me, because it's AI and AI will act on the exact moment when the target can be healed, while my human timing might be slower. Nothing wrong with that.
If other players have no problem timing heals after raise but you can't, then practice your timing. There is a hint when you did it right: Your character will turn to face the target. If you don't see that happen, then you are too early and the heal is going to yourself.

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Other players are not having "no problem" with timing heals regarding this. I've also seen someone raise and immediately lose their hp as soon as they got it because they accepted at a bad time.

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Combat is responsive and reliable enough outside of the network lag. You are making totally absurd comparisons.
Likewise, I could say something as absurd to you as this:
I just want you to know that you're saying "SE, please remove all graphic and animation, just make a screen of numbers and everything is instant."
See?

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Actually, what I'm saying in the "TL;DR:" of this thread is "SE, please make the game as responsive as other mmo's of this quality on the market are, and have been for years."

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I won't argue for a single second that beyond the combat, which TERA did better than anyone

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Actually Age of Conan got the best combat system up to date. Tera doesn't hold up the comparison :) the thing I really liked with Tera tho was that you couldn't "finish" your combo on an escaping target, that was pretty neat.

Otherwise for my "precision" argue, I was mainly talkin about timings and everything for any fight in any dungeon. Lag is a completely different issue and while it's a shame for those who are affected by and got some really crazy happenings because of, those who don't have any are actually truelly enjoyin.

Dont throw stones on me, I'm just sayin !

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Don't use Rage of Halone when you think you'll need a cooldown. You don't have to press it because the button lightened up.

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No, you press it when you need 5 X DAM enmity, which is every time it is available.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Yeah its called personnal timing not setted up correctly. Fights and cooldowns in this game are extremely precise, its up to you to optimise what to do within the timeframes. Blamin gamedesign because well, you suck, sound like a bit exagarated.

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I don't have any issues stunning or silencing while I do other things personally. I can adapt to the messy animation locks, the slow activations and the finicky off GCD actions. I just think it makes for very clunky gameplay when abilities won't happen when you press the key, or won't happen at all when you press the key because the designers thought it to be more important to show complete animations than to have responsive controls. It's not a matter of my performance. It's a matter of my enjoyment.

If you think the game is "extremely precise", that's all well, but your definition of precise gameplay is probably not the same as mine. To me, this game is the least precise MMO I've ever tried. It's like the first Castlevania. You could argue that game is super precise, but really, it's extremely clunky and annoying to play. Castlevania also makes heavy use of animation locks for everything you do.

I don't hate FFXIV. I'm having a lot of fun. I just would like for the controls to be better.

A lot of credibility is lost when someone says "like they should be" or things along those lines.

All I want for Christmas is a non-shitty combat system in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by StarMarmot

I don't hate FFXIV. I'm having a lot of fun. I just would like for the controls to be better.

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Ha, ok ... my bad sir. You know there's something I noticed today, actually skill / spell speed make "chaining" of skills less "clunky". Like I dont know how to explain it, on my scholar when I have to do Ruin + Ruin 2 + Energy Drain for example, without the spell speed buff given by Selene I can't really do it flawlessly. However, with it activated it's just super smooth.

Weird ? definitely :p

If you hate latency/lag issues in FF14 I'm not sure why TERA is in any way considered a better combat system.