[DEV] Free Company Housing Purchasing Idea!!

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Ok, I'll be sure to post a picture of my small FC in a big house with the gil we collected to buy it. I encourage the 200+ other FCs on my server to do the same.

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LOL, to make the argument, you must also post a picture of the price paid in FC points for the same house. See my point? You cannot possibly know that the amount of FC points to obtain a large house is out of reach for a small FC.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

LOL, to make the argument, you must also post a picture of the price paid in FC points for the same house. See my point? You cannot possibly know that the amount of FC points to obtain a large house is out of reach for a small FC.

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Why do you think it will be FC points? Everything, literally everything, points to it being GIL. Your idea is to CHANGE that, why - I don't know. Hence why I think you are being less than honest with your posts.

All of your "evidence" is hand waving. Your logic doesn't make sense given the larger framework of the game. You've not offered a single shred of evidence on ANYTHING. I'm not going to take what you see at face value because it goes against what Yoshi already shared with us.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Why do you think it will be FC points? Everything, literally everything, points to it being GIL. Your idea is to CHANGE that, why - I don't know. Hence why I think you are being less than honest with your posts.

All of your "evidence" is hand waving. Your logic doesn't make sense given the larger framework of the game. You've not offered a single shred of evidence on ANYTHING. I'm not going to take what you see at face value because it goes against what Yoshi already shared with us.

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because that's what this discussion is about. In order to say the price is out of reach for a small FC in FC points, we have to know how much a large house would cost if we could buy it with FC points. Therefore, you cannot possibly make the argument that if converted to FC points a small FC could not afford one. Your argument is based on conjecture.

point is if you want to waste your gil i would think your crazy if you can do it and use it for something else on something you could do with a little work just like farming myth gear or dl gear you cant buy your stuff well i think it should be the same way with land plots for companies who worked harder should get nicer plots, not saying that necessarily gets you a large house you still have to build / craft / buy houses but you can only build a house respective to the size of the land plots. Free company housing and personal player housing is different so to me it should be treated a bit differently. Anyone can spam ak/wp and sell philo items and make 200k a day thats not work thats just mindless grind. Free companies are about community and you gain the housing points by helping and working with a large and active community / free company population.

Waste your money on personal housing f you want to show off how much gil you have but reward free companies for what they are supposed to be for community and working together in large groups they didn't make them support 512 members to hold 5 thats what linkshells are for. Go out run dungeons help new members do quests, dungeons etc and your points will go through the roof i know we done it and have been doing it since release. and will breach 3 million points probably tonight its by helping people and thats what an mmo is supposed to be all about but people get lost in the instant gratification era and forget what a little work and working together is all about.

Using FC points to purchase FC housing removes RMT from the equation. That's good enough for me.

why are ppl keep talking about RMT buy house while the info goes like this: FC need to REACH CERTAIN RANK to be able to purchase house, and if you think RMT will make an FC, farm all that fate to get to lets say R5, and spend lets say 1kk-2kk gil to buy house and got ban, then you are wrong in the head, they are not that retard and do thing that bring them no profit.

back on topic: the idea look good on paper but it doesnt work when you try to cause trouble to certain FC or player and it is not gonna work. You will cause trouble to the casual and the FC with low number of ppl and even more you cause trouble to newly created FC, they will not be able to get their own house/base for a long long time, while with gil as currency they still need time to gather gil but will not be a pain in the ass to get even with their little play time.

The point is that free companies are supposed to be about community hence the large capacity size.

Whoa, hold on here - why did RMT end up in this discussion? You don't manage your process by rule breakers. Rely on SE to solve this problem as it's intended. If we wanted to snuff out RMT by altering game processes, then just remove the market. Seems a bit drastic? Yeah, exactly.

RMT is going to be part of housing no matter what you do - unless you do the above. Remember crafting for furniture and other housing pieces?

Also, don't you have to be allied to a GC to even participate (no, not talking about points)? No RMT is going to bother with that when they are making their money via markets. The idea of RMT controlling prices on land is outlandish.

Desperate posters are getting desperate.

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Originally Posted by Dotem

Using FC points to purchase FC housing removes RMT from the equation. That's good enough for me.

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This is a very good point, and one I hadn't thought of. However, as the other posters have pointed out, we don't know if there would be any incentive for RMT to buy a house at all. The only thing I can think of is if they were to sell the deeds. But to want an actual house, there would need to be be some pretty hefty bonuses for them to want it in the first place.

No because this only benefits large FC. Gil is the only thing that guarantees everyone has an equal chance of getting an FC house. And honestly if you have so many members that you are able to save up that many seals then you should have no issues gathering up gil to purchase the house.

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Originally Posted by Lexin

No because this only benefits large FC. Gil is the only thing that guarantees everyone has an equal chance of getting an FC house. And honestly if you have so many members that you are able to save up that many seals then you should have no issues gathering up gil to purchase the house.

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If you've read some of the responses in this thread, you should realize that fairness is largely besides the point.

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Originally Posted by dcdistro

Anyone can spam ak/wp and sell philo items and make 200k a day thats not work thats just mindless grind.

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Every job I have ever held IRL is a mindless grind. Are you trying to tell me that wasn't work? My employers would love to hear that because then they would stop paying me...

Regardless if you think it's easy to do, it is still work grinding AK/WP to profit from tome sales. No job I have ever had was 'hard'. They have all mostly just been tedious, which is exactly what grinding dungeons is. And if anyone can do it, why don't they? Because it's a lot more WORK that needs to be done than just typing it in a sentence. Nowhere in the definition of the word 'work', is the word 'hard' found. Nor is the word 'team' found.

I understand what your trying to say, but don't supplement your thesis with nonsensical beliefs. Technically I do what you are talking about every day. I have helped about 15 people in my FC with learning dungeons and how to play their jobs. We don't grind stupid FATEs because those teach you nothing. In effect, while teaching my FC mates dungeons, I have earned a lot of money from selling tomes because I was full DL a lot faster than them. Now, I only run dungeons with FC mates, and normally we switch groups every night so everyone has a chance to group with everyone else. I am 'helping people', in your terms of a proper MMO, daily. Just because an FC can hold 512 people does not mean you HAVE to have 512 people. Right now, there is no need to have more than 24 people if you want to be technical. Linkshells can have far more people in them than 5 people as well, so you don't get to 'determine' what a LS is for and a FC is for. I made my FC and I'll be damned if I'm told how to run it. Plain and simple.

The more you argue your points the less I like your idea. It just seems like you want to be held at some kind of super elite status because of the size of your FC. I'm not trying to put you on blast personally, but with each of your posts I have liked your idea less and less. Sorry if you feel offended, but you don't defend your points very well.

I will be in a mansion with my FC because 20-25 of us WORKED TOGETHER and made millions of gil in order to purchase it. I'm sorry that you have 3 million FC points with nothing to spend them on. That's SE's fault, not the entire community to suffer because they don't have 400 people in their FC. Honestly, I don't want 400 people in my FC anyway.

Which brings me back to the silliest point you made. An MMO is still a game. Just because you are playing it with others doesn't mean you have to play it a certain way. Games are for fun. If someone is having fun playing alone in a world of people, it isn't for you to decide or chastise that person for not playing the same way you do.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

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Amen brother. Well said. Bravo.

Substituting 1 currency for another really accomplishes nothing but shifts or eliminates the burden. Paying, instead of a very valuable currency (gil), in free company points (almost worthless) detracts from the whole payment thing entirely. The developers have in mind how much player should have to work to obtain a house or FC house. By shifting the currency, you do not change the underlying amount of work the developers want you to do before you can buy a house. So, if we change to a FC points, you would have to expect to pay around a billion of them before you could get a small house.

Now, if we're going to be sensible, and we want to give FC points more use, how about we have FC points in addition to gil. That way there is a collaboration of wealth and effort on the FC as a whole necessary.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

Stuff

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This is true to an extent. FC points are currently only worthless because we accumulate so many of them and have no way to spend them. There needs to be the possibility of spending them faster than they can be acquired to give them any real value. For that matter, we could substitute gil or FC points for GC seals. I have nothing to spend those on either.

Gil can be bought. FC points can't. Switching to FC Points would mean Gil buyers lose out. A Small Active FC can, in fact, generate the same income. There are limited # of houses to my understanding, So small FC's STILL WILL NOT be on the same playing field.

If you don't want to be in a large FC, then you can't expect to be competitive for real estate. Why should you be able to get a large property that houses 500 people, when you have an FC of 50? Because you can buy gil to fund it, wheras the 500 want to play honestly? and they are SOL because you are an elitist?

The proposed revision makes it so that the majority of people should end up getting the property. I like it.

Also Don't forget to go back and LIKE the original comment!!

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

Switching to FC Points would mean Gil buyers lose out.

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Stop arguing in a vacuum. Crafting exists. We know that there will be specific crafts to ALL professions for the 2.1 housing patch. Those will be sold through the market for gil. RMT will eventually reach to this, if they are halfway intelligent they are preparing for it now.

If you want housing to have zero chance of RMT, lobby to remove the market entirely or any craft related to housing. If you aren't willing to sign up for that stop making this fallacious argument.

That was my point Mishini. I expect land and housing to be very expensive, which would entice more people to buy gil. Having them cost FC points removes this option and prevents RMT from profiting from it. Furnishings for the house are lower cost items and can be added progressively and, thus, offer less temptation for buying gil.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

If you've read some of the responses in this thread, you should realize that fairness is largely besides the point.

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Just read through and wow. I guess to completely remove RMT we will also have to use FC seals to buy furniture.

Have yet to ask my FC leader what size we are getting but hope it's a large for all 30 of us.

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Originally Posted by Lexin

Just read through and wow. I guess to completely remove RMT we will also have to use FC seals to buy furniture.

Have yet to ask my FC leader what size we are getting but hope it's a large for all 30 of us.

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....and you missed the sarcasm by a mile.

The point is that you can't stop RMT unless you make vast changes to how individuals interact with each other. Simply put, if you want a vibrant economy and not something where individuals simply do it all themselves, RMT is a reality that must be dealt with.

Stop trying to design around RMT. It's SE's job to deliver good content for us and clean up the consequences of RMT afterwards. It's a specious argument to simply point to RMT and say well - we need to limit the uses of gil. No. You need to sink more gil and actively ban the RMT abusers.

So what you're saying is if me and 10 friends want to buy a house it will be more expensive per person than if me and 100 of my friends try to do the same thing? This is regardless of what currency we use? Mind blowing, honestly, mind blowing. Can you please stop talking now?

Make it that it cost 5m FC credits to get the license to buy land with Gil.

This way, FC credits and Gil are used and everyone is happy

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Originally Posted by Felis

Make it that it cost 5m FC credits to get the license to buy land with Gil.

This way, FC credits and Gil are used and everyone is happy

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I'm sure the new FCs are going to be oh so happy that they can't get a house.

Merging FC's never work. Too many people struggle to attain authority and the whole thing falls to shambles. Tried it once, never again. While I kinda agree with the seals thing, it could be a mixture of both. The only problem I see with FC housing is that if everyone in the FC pitches in, the leader who bought it, owns it from what I understand. They need to figure out a way so its not owned by one person, unless all the gil came from him, but if people do pitch in, it needs to be addressed that they as well helped fund the building and land.

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

Merging FC's never work. Too many people struggle to attain authority and the whole thing falls to shambles. Tried it once, never again. While I kinda agree with the seals thing, it could be a mixture of both. The only problem I see with FC housing is that if everyone in the FC pitches in, the leader who bought it, owns it from what I understand. They need to figure out a way so its not owned by one person, unless all the gil came from him, but if people do pitch in, it needs to be addressed that they as well helped fund the building and land.

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I have a feeling that there will be some new permissions set up for FC ranks as they relate to housing.

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

Merging FC's never work.

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I've been overseeing merges for years, you just have to know what you are doing. Upfront requirements, solid leadership structure, agreed upon ranks and systems for promotions, and good people skills. We just handled 4 FC merges over the past week. Went from 2 coil raids to 4 (nearly 5), and already have them clearing turns. It's possible, just needs commitment and significant upfront planning.

In my case, all of the donations were handled by the core raiding group and the responsibility even with more people still lies with us. I also admit this is rare for a FC to be able to pull off.

Does this change my idea about how to run FC housing? Nope, still think this is a bad idea.

FC credits? No thanks. New small FC would have to wait months and months before able to buy a decent house.
Let's not mention players with a loner FC, not willing to leave his bank slots just becasue unable to buy 5 million Fc credits' plots :rolleyes:

Clearly, noone is asking an absurd gil price, or it will be the glory of goldsellers looking forward to the incoming patch and the absurd amount of money needed to buy plots and playerbase needing "millions" :rolleyes:\

Am i dreaming hoping the bigger plot with an empty house may be affordable even just by the leader, for a few hundred thousand gils? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Teon

for a few hundred thousand gils? :rolleyes:

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Probably a few million. A few hundred thousand would be way too cheap.

Yeah, no. Hope the devs do NOT listen to this idea at all.

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Originally Posted by Teon

Am i dreaming hoping the bigger plot with an empty house may be affordable even just by the leader, for a few hundred thousand gils? :rolleyes:

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I doubt we get L sized plot under 1m gil.
L sized plot is for a single rich man or a commune who share the cost.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I doubt we get L sized plot under 1m gil.
L sized plot is for a single rich man or a commune who share the cost.

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Hehe i hope 1, not 100 mil :D

leveling from level 1-50 you get maybe 250k a free company with 500 members and if everyone gave 200k of that gil to the housing fund that would still only add upto 100 million gil....

still think this would have been more practical ...