Eyes Open Now

can the dps threads please stop?

For the OP and the other newer healers that have posted here, keep in mind you are doing lower lvl dungeons often with players who themselves have just started. It is ok to have things go a little bumpy and it is also ok to stop and talk things over, if you are getting too much hate maybe it is not the tank maybe it is you, although almost always it is a little bit of both. Take time and talk to the tank if you need to so you can sort it out and keep playing it is expected to have the tank or healer still be learning at those levels :). As far as DF I personally find it silly to assume every run is a speed run even if you personally are going for that reason if you really are get 4 of your FC and do a SP or FC run. Just have fun doing your role regardless if you are DPS holy or healing the Tank who is still gearing up. No need for LeET play in a DF run lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melithea

I'm on your side but I have to draw the line here. Ethers aren't worth the gil they vendor for in this game.

---

Every bit helps. HQ Mega-Ethers are very inexpensive / easy to make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B_Nighteye

I'm a new player myself. Playing a healer, and I'm really enjoying it. I've done the first three dungeons and the Ifrit trial, all as heals, and I plan to continue.

It's been tough learning to balance DPS with heals though. I've only been openly yelled at a couple of times for being too slow at switching to damage (especially on Ifrit's nail). I think I'll get better at it with practice.

---

What??! Nobody should be expecting you to DPS on the nail for Ifrit. People just over-do it sometimes. Especially the CNJ/WHM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zer0mr

What??! Nobody should be expecting you to DPS on the nail for Ifrit. People just over-do it sometimes. Especially the CNJ/WHM.

---

Yeah - this looks like a case of DPS being undergeared for the fight and looking for a scapegoat. I've run Ifrit HM over 100 times to help FC and LS groups, and I've never needed to DPS the nails...

To elaborate on my experience as a new player, I felt the DPS comments aimed at me were valid.

In the second dungeon I ran, we had a DPS player who clearly wanted a speed run. He complained that we were slow, and pulled extra packs of monsters. He indicated that I had both the time and mana to cast more than just Thunder and Aero, and while he wasn't polite about it, he was technically correct, so I've tried to step up my damage contribution since then.

On the Ifrit Trial, I was told that when the Nail appeared I needed to stop healing and only DPS, otherwise we would wipe. I failed to do this the first couple times (resulting in wipes), because I was too busy trying to keep everybody healed up from all the AOE damage. What that taught me was how to prioritize my heals (the Thaumaturge, for example, needed healing ASAP, because he couldn't take more than one fire breath attack without dying), and things went smoother once I was able to get a full DPS rotation on the Nail right away.

Otherwise, things have gone well. I like healing in this game, and I haven't had any complaints about my healing performance. I've only had a couple rough patches with wipes. Of course, there were aforementioned Ifrit wipes. And I also caused a couple wipes when the DPS speed runner pulled too many monsters, and I wasn't fast enough with my heals to keep up (though I eventually managed to succeed at that too). Anyway, I'm willing to take the blame for and learn from those mistakes, and I feel like I'm getting better at healing as a result.

dont take blame when its not yours.

ifrit group used you as a scapegoat
speedrunner was stupidly impatient.

@B_Nighteye:

No you shouldn't give that DPS player one ounce of credibility. Scholars and WHMs are good DPS when time allows - especially Scholars. DoTs aren't going to help much on the Ifrit nails because you have a short period of time in which to do them. Holy is only good against multiple targets - same goes for Bane.

Single target spike in a short period is a DPS thing. Groups that are asking for Healer assistance on nails need to run a BLM/SMN for the LB or get better gear. You can't contribute well to that.

Now for Ifrit? Absolutely you should DoT him up and cost Stone II when reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B_Nighteye

To elaborate on my experience as a new player, I felt the DPS comments aimed at me were valid.

On the Ifrit Trial, I was told that when the Nail appeared I needed to stop healing and only DPS, otherwise we would wipe. I failed to do this the first couple times (resulting in wipes), because I was too busy trying to keep everybody healed up from all the AOE damage. What that taught me was how to prioritize my heals (the Thaumaturge, for example, needed healing ASAP, because he couldn't take more than one fire breath attack without dying), and things went smoother once I was able to get a full DPS rotation on the Nail right away.

---

Not sure if everyone is missing it (unless I'm mistaken), but keep in mind that he is talking about the trial fight at level 20 when giving advice, not hard mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zormikal

Started playing role of healer and have gotten to lvl 24 with groups made from use of duty.
I always thought healing would be easy job. Glad to say it is not.

After reading many posts here about healing and also do some dps. I decided to be the damage some but keep grp alive healer. Not easy to do but with practice im sure ill get it soon enough.

With duty you still meet ppl new to game so gear and knowledge not so good which makes role harder and with every grp comes a different challenge.

Point : Healing is not easy add dps even more challenging respect all healers in game !

---

me too, started a CNJ to help FC get through dungeons and after playing a few dungeons I had a whole new respect for healers. All classes are important though, they each serve a purpose in the grand scheme of things.

Zormikal send me a /tell if you need help with dungeon runs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delvish

Not sure if everyone is missing it (unless I'm mistaken), but keep in mind that he is talking about the trial fight at level 20 when giving advice, not hard mode.

---

Yep. I was talking about the level 20 fight, but I'm thankful for all the advice nonetheless.

And I totally get that the other players may share some of the blame for the wipes I experienced. But from my perspective, if there was something I could have done to prevent a wipe, and I didn't do it, then that's on me. I need to learn how to save the day during those surprise situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delvish

Not sure if everyone is missing it (unless I'm mistaken), but keep in mind that he is talking about the trial fight at level 20 when giving advice, not hard mode.

---

No, we all caught that. Which makes it even worse that the DPS need help on that nail. They have LB and many other tools to use other than try to blame the cnj for not DPS when they can't even stay out of damage zones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zer0mr

No, we all caught that. Which makes it even worse that the DPS need help on that nail. They have LB and many other tools to use other than try to blame the cnj for not DPS when they can't even stay out of damage zones.

---

By "LB" you mean the Limit Break? I'm still not entirely sure how that works. Does it have to be one of the DPS who uses it?

(Sorry about asking such obvious noob questions.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B_Nighteye

By "LB" you mean the Limit Break? I'm still not entirely sure how that works. Does it have to be one of the DPS who uses it?

(Sorry about asking such obvious noob questions.)

---

Yes, LB means Limit Break, and no problem. Everyone has to learn at some point.

Little off topic, but good for you to know. Each class has its own category of limit break and each tier has differing power.
Tanks (WAR, PLD, GLD, MRD) = Defensive buff
Healer (SCH, WHM, CNJ) = Full heal. The only time you will probably ever use this is a T3 LB when everyone is dead. Instantly raises and full cures everyone.
Oddity (BRD, ARC) = Full heal, same as above.
Melee DPS (DRG, MNK, LNC, PGL) = Single target massive attack. This is what SHOULD be used on trial Ifrit's Nail.
Mage DPS (BLM, SMN, ACN, THM) = Ground target AoE massive attack. This is what should be used on hard mode Ifrit's Nails.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B_Nighteye

By "LB" you mean the Limit Break? I'm still not entirely sure how that works. Does it have to be one of the DPS who uses it?

(Sorry about asking such obvious noob questions.)

---

the limit break is different depending on who uses it and what bar it's at

gladiators and marauders put a defensive buff on all nearby party members for a short while (gets stronger for each bar)

conjurers, scholars, and archers do an aoe heal (at level 3 limit break it heals for full health and revives everyone in range)

arcanists (summoners) and thaumaturges do an aoe damage ability (gets stronger for each bar)

pugilists and lancers do a single target damage ability (gets stronger for each bar

Oh. Okay.

Thank you for the responses.

So assuming the Limit Break is ready, a melee DPS could use it to help quickly pop the Nail. Makes sense.

Of course, now I feel like an idiot for assuming that the people telling me what to do actually knew what they were doing. :(

Well, at least I know for the future.

You're a level 20 cnj. Your dps will mean very little and your party does not have the HP pool available to let them dip while you try to dot all the mobs and complete a dps rotation. Your priority is healing. If you are having to prioritize dps over healing then your other party members are undergeared for content or just completely clueless.

Why was the THM getting hit by ifrit's breath attack? I assume the tank was trying to help dps? Very bad idea. The tank does very little damage anyway and forcing dps to move to avoid attacks because ifrit got turned around actually lowers the dps on the nails the party could do. It sounds like this may be why your party could not dps the nails fast enough and not because you were doing your job, which is healing.

omg.. dun start another war here
the post here said that he finally realize healing is not an easy job
suddenly it become whether u should dps or not
dont hit according to target number whatsoever
bring the argument to the correct post :mad:

anyway its good that u have the initiative to feel what other class feels
me in the otherhand find dps class is hard becoz i'm healing in every mmo i played
so i respect all other dps and i respect tank more since i find it really hard :cool:

I used to play WoW, but strictly as ranged DPS. Never got the hang of melee, so tanking is something I know I couldn't do, and I have 100% respect for the people who do that job. But I've always been particularly amazed by great healers.

And I didn't mean to escalate a DPS argument. I've just been surprised at how much pressure some people put on healers, even in low-level dungeons. Guess I just had a couple bad DF groups.

Anyway, I ran Toto-Rak for the first time last night, and it went well. The last boss was crazy, but between cures, AOE heals, dispelling poison, DPSing pods, and handling the adds that were on top of me, I managed to keep everybody alive and we took him down. It was a great feeling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

I always ignore 1,2,3 numbering if the tank does it. It's meaningless. I'll have 2 DoTs on all mobs and another 4 with higher DPS DoT cycles. The other two DPS'ers will be doing even more. If for whatever reason I'm only healing, I'm going to direct you to pull more mobs.

---

Just so we're clear, ignoring 123 and only AoEing => OK!
Putting any single target dps on any mob but 1 => You're a douche!

I mark target 1 for anyone that's not AoEing, that's the mob that gets the first RoH and the one I lock down first between Flash/tab strikes. Dot spreading is fine, the early burst isn't nearly bad enough to counteract aoe aggro unless I'm lazy or dealing with an asshole single target dpsing something not marked 1.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, except for the term meaningless, just clarifying intent. I usually only mark target 1 as by the time it's dead I've locked everything else down.

On healer dpsing:

Healer and tank damage potential compared to straight dps is very significant in this game, especially compared to other MMOs out there. You're looking at at least 50% to upwards of 100%+ in certain situations. There is never a reason to not have more sustained dps in an encounter, even if it causes you to have to stop dps at some point to wait out a mechanic. If you've got free time as a healer, slap on cleric stance and drop some dots at the very least, then switch back and do your heal thing.

For personal experience, I'm very often the highest dps in the group while healing in low level dungeons, especially if the tank is geared. A big part of that is keeping HQ gear up to date, but the other part of that is WHM just flat out does a high amount of damage in cleric stance. Brayflox will be difficult to dps in due to the huge jump in damage in that instance, but prior instances I could throw about 2-4 nukes in between heals depending on the tanks gear.

Healing in this game is ridiculously easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

I'm working real hard to not get belligerent with you. How much more data do you need to show that healers DO SIGNIFICANT DPS at end game? Granted, this guy is a lower level - the difference is going to be small and the total damage likely to be insignificant.

However, please - please - please stop spreading false information. Once you hit relic+DL you have the strongest DoTs in the game (sch). You have one of the best AoEs in the game (whm). When you run in a group like that and you aren't DPS'ing WP and AK you are doing something wrong. Period.

---

You has your relic and are still playing WP/AK? You must like zeh punishments.

I only Dps if people are stable and the fairy can keep up. If I have to cast heals I don't Dps. I don't like to just leave my fairy to heal as it is not reliable due to AI bugs.

Majority of the time I'm healing. If they bitch at me to do Dps they can find another healer. My first priority is to keep the group alive. If they can understand that then they need to find someone else.

As a healer, I went into a DF WP run. Some dragoon with AF and Ifrit's Harpoon and some lousy lv. 40 accessories.

Sure enough when we reached the Goobou boss in WP he got hit by every fart for 70% of his HP and poison. He got hit every.... single.... time....

I let him die. I sometimes hate healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Healing in this game is ridiculously easy.

---

Compared to DDing and especially tanking it's not.

That being said, as a general rule, it is easy unless people are being dumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jyoeru

You has your relic and are still playing WP/AK? You must like zeh punishments.

---

Right, because obtaining a relic means you suddenly have no need for mythology tokens ever again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Healing in this game is ridiculously easy.

---

unless you have a Lancer, Pug and MRD thinking they are all tanks in the same party :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jyoeru

You has your relic and are still playing WP/AK? You must like zeh punishments.

---

Yeah, I have a relic and 6 ilevel 90 items. Still missing my gloves, belt, belt, and ring. As I see it - I have a few more weeks of AK/WP left before I'm full ilevel 90.

The bigger the buffer vs. Twintania the better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

Compared to DDing and especially tanking it's not.

That being said, as a general rule, it is easy unless people are being dumb.

---

I find Dragoon much more difficult than WHM. Then again, I was a healer in FFXI for 5 years so perhaps I'm just used to the rhythm.

Healing is easy...til it isn't and then that is where the cream rises. Healing is comparatively speaking pretty hard not to mention the utter weight on your shoulders which obviously causes a level of stress that not all job types feel we get no glory and are seldom recognized for what we do and we do it with a smile on our face and take the insults with a grain of salt. Others screw up they die cause they can't dodge an attack worth a damn and also our fault. I do not trivialize any job for what they do but I would not say healing is "easy" when compared. I played as an endgame WHM on FFXI from the first day of NA luanch and though in some ways that was harder FFXIV adds different twists to the mix that absolutely can be considered more difficult than XI.

You guys are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Jobs have set roles, specific roles, even the game acknowledges that.

You don't pick a healer if you want to DPS, you don't pick a tank if you want to heal, and you don't pick a DD if you want to tank. Simple as that. To expect more from anyone, even if you and everyone else around you think that's how things should be done, is selfish and does more to hurt the groups they're in than any "wasted" time. Really, most of what you're doing is trying to impose dangerous habits that may not actually work for future content. Why needlessly make things more difficult and tedious for those just making it to end-game? The logic should always be for players to assume their roles and nothing else -- unless they're comfortable with taking on additional responsibility and the group isn't being put in any unnecessary situations because of it.

FFS people stop giving that excuse I'll repeat again

THE QUESTION IS NOT ABOUT HEALER NOT HEALING. ITS ABOUT HEALERS BEEING IN THE WAY BY STANDING AROUND DOING NOTHING WHEN HEALING IS NOT REQUIRED

This back and forth is ridiculous. And browbeating others to make your point is a waste of time and shows arrogance and ignorance. I hardly have the downtime to dps because I'm constantly stuck with suicidal tanks who think I'm God and can heal them through anything, without any DL gear or relic +1. Working on obtaining those now. Because of this, I'm usually trained onto the tank without realizing he doesn't need healing, because it's a mental reflex to be wary. But when I feel safe enough to insta off a flare in boss or mob fights, I do. But I'm just skittish about change bars to dps even for a split second with the type of tanks I always manage to get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vasaan-Dragomir

This back and forth is ridiculous. And browbeating others to make your point is a waste of time and shows arrogance and ignorance. I hardly have the downtime to dps because I'm constantly stuck with suicidal tanks who think I'm God and can heal them through anything, without any DL gear or relic +1. Working on obtaining those now. Because of this, I'm usually trained onto the tank without realizing he doesn't need healing, because it's a mental reflex to be wary. But when I feel safe enough to insta off a flare in boss or mob fights, I do. But I'm just skittish about change bars to dps even for a split second with the type of tanks I always manage to get.

---

Stop using duty finder

If you want to just be a decent healer, by all means, just stand around while everyone else keeps doing a role during AK/WP - take a break, watch Netflix, grab a drink.

If you want to be a decent player, you have to do whatever you can to help the group clear content, and that means DPSing 80% of the time in AK/WP (unless you're playing with undergeared or underskilled players) and putting up some DoTs when you can in hard content. Anything less than that and you're not pulling your weight, because I'll tell you what, the tank doesn't stop DPSing once he's established aggro, and as a BLM, if I have the opportunity to throw on Eye for an Eye or Virus, I do it, even though those are mitigation/survival skills rather than my DPS role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whippet

Stop using duty finder

---

And waste even more time shouting for groups? No thank you. Some of us can't play all day and shout repeatedly for groups in the emote infested Revenant's Toll. Besides, the way I see it, terrible tanks allow me to better learn how to play my class and perform in my role and get more comfortable with assisting with damage when I can: by allowing me to better assess a situation for allowed time to loose off a few DoTs or a swiftcasted flare. I'd rather people stop being so elitist and arrogant. It's a game for crying out loud. Let people learn their roles and class, get gear... and THEN show your ugly elitist colors. Being elitist in ak/wp situations is uber fail on your part. So pull the large sticks out your butts (by the way, that wasn't directed at the person I'm quoting) and enjoy something and be patient with people still learning. Diversity in player skill is a good thing and allows for player contribution.

There's million of group in reverent toll

Stop beeing bad and finding excuses

I've just started playing the game as a CNJ, just got to level 20. Seeing my group standing inside those poison pool during that level 20 guildhest made me cried ;_;

As much as people are saying 'healers should only heal' kind of thing, care to explain the significant impact of whm holy spam for 8 min wp runs? Just saying. And if you don't know about it, look it up on YouTube.