I could upgrade from ST to AT with just cheap NPC food if needed for 2 star, but atm I am guranteeing 1-star HQ with ST so AT is not needed on 1-star. I was just kind of curious how much control would be required for this particular rotation to 100% 2-star since it actually doesn't even need CP food atm.
80 Durability 100% HQ using all NQ materials.
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11-18-2013, 09:44 AMClassikal
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11-18-2013, 12:52 PMClassikal
Hmmm, just for shits and giggles I tried the no food rotation on a cheap 2-star synth(Pineapple Juice to be exact) just to see how high I could get it. and I got it to 100% 1st try, wasn't really much special on RNG, like 1 Good on a BT, that was it.
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/...ps747d0bdc.png
333 Craftsmanship, 326 Control, 339 CP(only 335 used)
BB went off for 1856 on a normal lol. -
11-21-2013, 09:19 PMKseniaLOL, Just tried this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
7 Hasty Hand, 21 total ( tried it 3 times on dodore leather at 50)
14 blew up.
This is why I hate fail farming Hasty Hand. -
11-22-2013, 07:22 AMAphraellWhat do you mean by "blew up". The rotation is made to use the exact maximum allowed turns? Considering it has 7 Hasty touches at 80% chance and 1 normal touch plus Byregot's blessing. It should HQ most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksenia
If your saying the item broke and didn't complete the synthesis, your either not following the CP requirement or not following the rotation exactly.
Mmmm just reread your post. I think your saying you failed 14 hasty touches out of 21 - Your one unlucky SOB>! Percentage wise - you should have failed 4.2 -
11-27-2013, 10:46 PMMaelwysWould this still be a completely guaranteed 100% HQ chance if you got an excellent condition after using the first "Waste Not" and had to eat a Poor condition on the first Basic Touch...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
(I make it that with 340 control you would end up just short of the quality cap, but with 342 Control you could close the gap via getting a few extra points out of the other touches) -
11-28-2013, 06:45 AMAphraellYep!Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
You can get poor on any of the touches except the last 2 - hence I've allowed for that by using Observe and the timing of the Byregot's. Plenty of other rotations say they are 100% but they are NOT because of the chance of poor touches not being taken into consideration. This rotation if you follow the instructions is 100%. -
11-28-2013, 08:22 AMMaelwysCheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
I'm not meaning to doubt your word, just still trying to get my head around all the numbers ;)
Using http://xivsim.x0.com/ with that rotation and 340 Control, I make it -
1st Basic Touch - 119
2nd Basic Touch - 137
3rd Basic Touch - 156
4th Basic Touch - 174
5th Basic Touch - 193
Standard Touch - 529
B.Blessing - 1658
Total Quality attained (with no condition modifiers): 2966
The Quality Cap for a 233 Difficulty 2-star synth is listed as 2921
2966-2921 = a 45 "Overflow" of surplus quality from your rotation, assuming that you get no Goods/Poors/Excellents on anything.
If you get a Poor on anything other than the first Basic touch or the Standard touch then it doesn't matter - You can force Blessing to dodge it by dropping Innovation, and the other Basic Touches can just ignore it because you'd already be sitting on a Quality surplus from an Excellent condition hitting a previous Basic Touch. And as you mention above, you've allowed for dodging a Poor condition on the Standard Touch by factoring in the use of "Observe" after Great Strides.
However you get an Excellent Condition on "Steady Hands II" then the 1st Basic Touch will get hit by a Poor, which I think is a 0.5 modifier (assuming that's what Poor conditions equate to) I think this would halve the +119 quality you'd get from that first Basic Touch, which would leave you 59.5-45 = 14.5 Quality short of the 2921 "cap" at the end of the rotation if you don't get any other "good" conditions elsewhere.
Certainly you could use "Observe" to stop a Poor condition hitting either the Standard Touch OR the First Basic Touch, but if the RNG stars line up against you and you may need to use it twice in one synth, it'd potentilaly push your CP usage up over 373...?
If I plug in 342 Control instead of 340 into http://xivsim.x0.com/ then the quality "buffer" you have at the end of the synth rises up to the point where it can completely conteract the loss of quality from that first Basic Touch getting an 0.5 modifier...
It's quite possible that the planner I'm using doesn't quite have the right numbers and I may also be overestimating the impact of a poor condition, I just wanted to double-check this before I commit to levelling up Goldsmith to 50!! Thanks! :) -
11-28-2013, 04:48 PMVortokYou can't really use Observe for the first Basic Touch because Waste Not is already active. The two main ways to address it is to have enough Control for it to not matter (preferred) or to start with at least one HQ mat if you're super paranoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
I've used that simulator you linked before. Unless it was updated within the past month or so it is not 100% accurate. It provides a close approximation, but the quality increases it output did not match up with what I got in game with the same Control stat. The early Basic Touches were a few points off, nevermind the later Touch actions. I tried finding the formula, and found one that looked decent, but sadly the equation used was a bit over my head when to comes to math knowledge so I couldn't plug in numbers (to first see if it was an accurate equation) to figure out the bare minimum Control needed in a worst case scenario.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l)-and-a-TOOL-!
That's where I foundthea formula if anyone feels like poking around. My math curriculum didn't cover rank 2 polynomes (quick google didn't help, feel like I should be able to read it but alas) so I was SOL, hehe. Also couldn't launch the crafting simulator linked in that post (needed Web 2.0 or something) to determine if it was accurate, either. -
11-28-2013, 06:56 PMMaelwysI've actually been using that simulator as well for rotations but didn't notice the Touch Calculator bit (the reason I used http://xivsim.x0.com/ was because that's the one Aphraell linked earlier!) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortok
You're right, it more or less agrees with the first few touches but the later touches were getting substantially more:
Basic #1: 118
Basic #2: 137
Basic #3: 157
Basic #4: 176
Basic #5: 196
Standard: 541
Blessing: 1658
=2983
2983-2921=62 Surplus (which would be enough to weather a poor on the 1st Touch with 340 Control!)
(Incidentally the web 2.0 sim is a bit buggy, it keeps crashing on me occasionally whenever I use Waste Not 2... but unlike http://xivsim.x0.com/ Ingenuity usually wears off whenever it's supposed to!) :) -
11-28-2013, 07:36 PMAphraell
I'm not a huge fan of the simulators, but they can be useful sometimes.
Run the 80 durability hasty rotation in my first post and hit the simulator a few times. It comes up with some huge numbers :).
Hopefully one day harder items to craft come out and I can use it! -
12-03-2013, 03:51 AMMaelwysAgreed :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
...so with that in mind... quick question:
At what level of Craftsmanship do you need to be at in order to not have to use all three Careful Synthesis II under "Ingenuity" and still complete a 233 Difficulty synth?
The most accurate simulator I've found suggests that this happens at around 350 Craftsmanship, but since I'm still not quite that kitted-out in game, I'm unsure of just how accurate that is for a real in-game synth.
If it's within easy reach to get the extra Craftsmanship required, then it might be worth spending a few extra Craftsmanship points in melds in order to save a truckload of CP.
I'm thinking that if you can get to the point where two CS II under Ingenuity and one "normal" CS II are sufficient, then you could just use the normal CSII in place of Observe, and bring your rotation back down to 359 CP or even lower (if you can swap the order a bit so that the "Standard Touch" happens under Ingenuity, you might nearly be able to drop "Innovation")
- - - - - - - - - - -
Potentially you could get away with something like the below, for 348 CP (so you'd not even have to eat food!)
+ Comfort Zone
+ Inner Quiet
+ Steady Hand II
+ Basic Touch
+ Basic Touch
+ Basic Touch
+ Basic Touch
+ Basic Touch
+ Manipulation
*** IF CONDITION IS EXCELLENT THEN USE CAREFUL SYNTHESIS II HERE ***
+ Steady Hand II
+ Basic Touch
+ Ingenuity (If condition is excellent, swap this and the next 'Basic touch' around)
+ Basic Touch
*** IF CONDITION IS NOT EXCELLENT THEN USE GREAT STRIDES ***
+ Byregot's Blessing
+ Careful Synthesis II
+ Careful Synthesis II
+ Careful Synthesis II (Only use if not already used for an Excellent Condition earlier)
The above should be a guaranteed 100% HQ rotation with NQ materials as long as you have 343 Control or more, and enough craftsmanship to complete a synth in 2x CSII under ingenuity and 1x CSII outside it (which may be considerably higher than the 350 Craftsmanship the sims suggest!) Technically it'd only need 343 control to ensure that it can weather a Poor condition on step #4 (the 1st "Basic Touch") - so I suppose that you could use your normal "Careful Synth 2" there instead if desired as it'd be incredibly unlikely to get 2 'Excellents' in exactly the wrong place.
(Edit: Confirmed working at 357 Craftsmanship. So minimum requirements for this rotation would be 357 Craftsmanship, 343 Control and 348 CP. Technically you can hit that with just gear + melds, no food) -
12-03-2013, 07:44 AMAphraellI'm unsure what the Craftmanship required would be, I don't bother logging in much these days, the games gone stagnant sadly. It shouldn't be hard to test though on 2 star food(cheap).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
The rotation you wrote above is what I used to use on 1 Star synths. Except I changed the last Basic Touch to Hasty Touch as I had crap CP back then. -
12-20-2013, 05:41 AMPinwormsQuote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
Hey boss good write up, and thank you. Does anyone know the base cp before food for these synths? I have 347 craft, 340 control, but my cp is not as high. I have not tried to use cp food yet since I have not done a star item yet. I'm trying to figure out how much more Cp I need to meld to hit the recommended for these. I also do not have comfort zone...so that's out. I want to get 100% every time of course also if possible. I have weaver, cul, gsm, and cpt at 50, and everything else 15-25.
Anyways, I'm about to craft an astral ring and I don't want to mess up on it cp wise and blow the entire synth, I think I'm good on the other two stats. Also wanted to check to see if these are still viable or if there is better for 40 and 80 2 star. -
12-20-2013, 06:00 AMLemon8or340 if you're using NQ Bouillabaisse (+10% max 34 CP), 331 if you're using HQ of the same item (+13% max 43CP). Higher if you want to use cheaper food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinworms
Without Comfort Zone, you need 14 more CP since it subtract 66 then add 80 over 10 steps. Add 14 more to the CP I listed above.
Edit: Or since you're on Leviathan, I can craft it for you. :P -
12-20-2013, 07:47 AMPinworms
Thank you so much, and it's nice to see a friendly face from Levi! Anyone have a good 40 durability macro or step process that's 100%?
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12-21-2013, 02:20 AMLemon8orUnfortunately, there's no current automatic process that will guarantee 100% HQ on 40 durability. You'll just have to use Hasty Touch method for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinworms
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12-25-2013, 10:56 AMWolfiesI can guarantee you that if you get 0 goods and hit your standard on a poor with great strides, you WILL fail and not hit 100%. with 354 control I hit 96%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
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12-25-2013, 04:35 PMAphraellIf you follow the rotation as I've written you should NEVER get a "Poor" condition on either the Standard or Byregot's Touch. That's why I included the 2 Important quotes. Hence why this rotation is 100% when others are.... mostly 100% :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfies
IMPORTANT: If condition is Excellent you hit "Observe", if not continue as normal
IMPORTANT: If condition is Excellent skip the next step of "Innovation", if not continue on as normal.
If you're following the other thread where they copied my earlier Macro that's why you are not hitting 100%. I have tweaked that slightly since to allow for "Poor" conditions. Use the rotation in the 1st thread of this post.