I hope this game doesn't become like FFXI

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Originally Posted by viion

What lol like talking to a brick wall. I'm just saying DM was not challenging, sure maybe first time as you're completely clueless but after that first run I never died or failed after. And my friends would usually do the same strategy, the only time it got "tough" was when randomers came who have not done it and messed up or a tank DC's, but thats not challenging just dumb luck lol.

Promy was kind of challenging due to limitations.

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ima half to agree
mana burn was simple once you learned it, as it is in EVERY GAME. :)

mana burn was aoe >> sleep >> aoe >> sleep (run if need to) aoe >> sleep to death. or if doing singled targets, get a puller and nuke the crap out of it. Pullers were generally rdms, brds, cor.

Games are subjective based on the player. Everyone here can say world of warcraft was easy mode. While other people may not think so. (and no that dosn't mean they are bad players)

@ xat. That isn't true about ffxi. they had 1 server merge well before abysea was launched. And not a ton of ppl quit during after it launched either. The game was slowly dieing out. People got most of what they wanted and left. Or other "more fun" games were launched. Also it was 500K >> 1-2 mil >>> then trickled down after WoW launched. Abyssea was a pretty big hit with players, and this was proven by ffxi having to fix congestion issues in port jeuno on all the servers. And only a handful of servers are merging. It isn't like they all are. All SE wanted to do was make ffxi more accessable. One major flaw with ffxi was looking for a party in general was a time sink. It should not take a player 6-12hrs to form or get a party. And they were running out of ways to fix it. Abyssea isn't all that bad. And the story line is pretty good. Just sucks I can't play it.

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Originally Posted by viion

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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I've been in more then my fair share of mana burn parties. I also have a ton of gaming experiance. Once you learn how to do something in a game, any game it becomes routine. FFXI was a highly routined game, this was due to all the cookie cutting that went on with in the player base.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

take a player 6-12hrs to form or get a party.

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You've convinced me, lets make this XI!!!!!

Really I'm serious, I'm sure I could find myself laughing my head off watching people make a group for 12 hours.

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Originally Posted by DeadlySwordz

what?! FFXI was awsome! i played for 6+yrs. i have played a lot of MMO's, WoW, lineage, WAR, guild wars, Aion, Rift, Age of Conan, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings(only active ones right now are WoW, and Conan and FF14 since its f2p)......and i have to admit my favorite overall of them is FFXI. I quit WoW like 10 times (no being sarcastic), and always went back to FFXI. The only reason i am not playing FFXI anymore is because i didn't like the new level cap to 99.

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The only thing I find appealing about XI is the artistic direction and the races. Everything else is either balanced around the player having all the free time in the world (endgame events pre-einherjar), not worth the effort for the amount of trouble needed to get through (majority of quests in the game), intentionally designed to inconvenience the player (evoliths, augments, chocobo raising), or terribly overhyped (Chains of Promathia).

As I mentioned in another thread, after a certain point I started measuring my playtime in FFXI as "hours wasted" instead of "hours played".

Granted, I'm not in the age range where I have a ton of time to dedicate to a game anymore, and have taken to playing in spurts lasting between 45 mins to 4 or 5 hours during a day off from work. So no, I don't want the second coming of a lot of the things from FFXI.

By the way, I notice a good number of people equate difficulty to time taken. Difficulty can be as simple as a powerful dragon in a raid instance where its only him, three sub-boss drakes and 7 or 8 packs of trash mobs to kill. Doesn't have to be a dungeon that takes 5 hours to clear.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I've been in more then my fair share of mana burn parties. I also have a ton of gaming experiance. Once you learn how to do something in a game, any game it becomes routine. FFXI was a highly routined game, this was due to all the cookie cutting that went on with in the player base.

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Where you're wrong: Read my original post and look for the part in brackets where I state clear I did not Mana Burn and I also stated that it was even impossible due to being patched.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Also at your previous post, you need to learn XI's roadmap because you're way off if you think it had 1-2m before WoW was launched lol it only hit 2m characters by 2009 (not players) and only peaked to 500k players by 2008.

One of the things that i did love about xi is there were many fights that would decimate you mercilessly until you figured it out and had practice at a workable strategy. There were many fights, losses, and eventual triumphs that i will remember until old age or severe brain damage take them away from me. I know some might call that sad or at the minimum very geeky, but its the truth.

I really hope that the dungeon bosses and the dungeons them selfs will knock our collective asses in the dirt many times before we get it right. I know we might cry fowl or wonder what the hell some one was smoking when they came up with it, but a Final fantasy game needs its ultima weapons and absolute virtues.

right now the hardest fight is the r46 mission. not that im saying a slow burn in a bad thing, but i do honestly think its time for the kid gloves to come off going forward.

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Originally Posted by Griss

right now the hardest fight is the r46 mission. not that im saying a slow burn in a bad thing, but i do honestly think its time for the kid gloves to come off going forward.

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What!? lol how was it hard...... they get 1 shotted (exluding leader) by the Imperial Behemoth... then you wack leader and he runs off crying. I was deeply disappointed, the first time I did it was accidently lol.

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Originally Posted by viion

What!? lol how was it hard...... they get 1 shotted (exluding leader) by the Imperial Behemoth... then you wack leader and he runs off crying. I was deeply disappointed, the first time I did it was accidently lol.

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don't mistake what i am saying here. I'm not saying that the fight its self is hard. Just that of the bunch its the only one that you really have any chance of failing as that sob will one shot you if you are herpaderping around in it.

It took my self and a friend about three tries to get it down. we went in cold the first time, the second time there was a bit of a goof with her skipping the cs with out telling me, the third time we beat it. I will admit that the solution to the fight is a pretty interesting mechanic though.

I hope this game becomes a lot like FFXI. A LOT LIKE FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Griss

don't mistake what i am saying here. I'm not saying that the fight its self is hard. Just that of the bunch its the only one that you really have any chance of failing as that sob will one shot you if you are herpaderping around in it. It took my self and a friend about three trys to get it down. we went in cold the first time, the second time there was a bit of a goof with her skiping the cs with out telling me, the third time we beat it. I will admit that the solution to the fight is a pretty interesting mechanic though.

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It was hard.. but I barely soloed it I was close to death once with 124 hp left, and the Big Juggernaut thing killed two of them as I ran for my life ( when the machine was about to blow). Then I ran away a little bit ( as the Machines sensor was following me everywhere). Once I got full health I ran to face the leader where he ran away.. then the Epic CS happended Best CS in the Game :D.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

You've convinced me, lets make this XI!!!!!

Really I'm serious, I'm sure I could find myself laughing my head off watching people make a group for 12 hours.

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This was due from people requiring certain party set ups Or needing people to join before they joined. (which was stupid)

I can't tell you how many times I tried forming a part after waiting 3 hours to be invited into one, only for ppl to say or ask

p1: do you have a rdm, brd, cor?
me: not yet
p1: then ask me when you do?
p2: how many member you got?
me: justy me atm
p2: invite me when you get 4--5 others
p3: do you have a tank?
me: not yet
p3: invite me when you have a tank.

Sorry the but ffxi players started to get chips on their shoulds or bad attitudes for petty reasons. Pretty much becoming premadonna (sp). Heck after a While I just duoed with my bf at the time (now my ex) or solo'ed fov pages. Which I ended up being a reason for nearly quiting.

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Originally Posted by Griss

don't mistake what i am saying here. I'm not saying that the fight its self is hard. Just that of the bunch its the only one that you really have any chance of failing as that sob will one shot you if you are herpaderping around in it. It took my self and a friend about three trys to get it down. we went in cold the first time, the second time there was a bit of a goof with her skiping the cs with out telling me, the third time we beat it. I will admit that the solution to the fight is a pretty interesting mechanic though.

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Even still, the solution to the fight is not challenging nore is being 1shotted. As I've protested already constantly dying doesn't make something challenging, just annoying. Near death might because it gives you time to do something and your reflex's/skills will come into play, but 1shot is just "lala boom dead game over, retry". You've got no control over it other than to just avoid it and do the simple solution to the fight.

It was interesting and different, I liked that, but for a final mission I was deeply upset by it, but the cutscene made up for that haha. Trying to solo MR. C Jack is challenging!

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Originally Posted by Griss

I really hope that the dungeon bosses and the dungeons them selfs will knock our collective asses in the dirt many times before we get it right. I know we might cry fowl or wonder what the hell some one was smoking when they came up with it, but a Final fantasy game needs its ultima weapons and absolute virtues.

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I'm sorry, but no. The last thing we need is another mishap like absolute virtue. That was probably the only time I've ever felt true hatred for a team of developers. Specially after seeing how they reacted to any mention of AV.

There's a difference between a boss that is overtuned to a point it is nearly unbeatable by the best raid comp (C'thun, pre-nerf M'uru) and the crap that was AV. What I want is a well-balanced encounter that can be downed after some practice. Not something to wipe on week after week with nothing to show for it other than repair bills and the task itself turning into a chore.

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Originally Posted by viion

Where you're wrong: Read my original post and look for the part in brackets where I state clear I did not Mana Burn and I also stated that it was even impossible due to being patched.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Also at your previous post, you need to learn XI's roadmap because you're way off if you think it had 1-2m before WoW was launched lol it only hit 2m characters by 2009 (not players) and only peaked to 500k players by 2008.

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It was a while...... for starters if I am wrong with the time line, but I used mana burn as a personal example of what You was saying. Which is what I was agreeing with. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

This was due from people requiring certain party set ups Or needing people to join before they joined. (which was stupid)

I can't tell you how many times I tried forming a part after waiting 3 hours to be invited into one, only for ppl to say or ask

p1: do you have a rdm, brd, cor?
me: not yet
p1: then ask me when you do?
p2: how many member you got?
me: justy me atm
p2: invite me when you get 4--5 others
p3: do you have a tank?
me: not yet
p3: invite me when you have a tank.

Sorry the but ffxi players started to get chips on their shoulds or bad attitudes for petty reasons. Pretty much becoming premadonna (sp). Heck after a While I just duoed with my bf at the time (now my ex) or solo'ed fov pages. Which I ended up being a reason for nearly quiting.

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Sound like that mini game in FFX-2 to get the tourists out(<link), they all have a requirement like not too many, has to be the second person to join, etc lol..

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'm sorry, but no. The last thing we need is another mishap like absolute virtue. That was probably the only time I've ever felt true hatred for a team of developers. Specially after seeing how they reacted to any mention of AV.

There's a difference between a boss that is overtuned to a point it is nearly unbeatable by the best raid comp (C'thun, pre-nerf M'uru) and the crap that was AV. What I want is a well-balanced encounter that can be downed after some practice. Not something to wipe on week after week with nothing to show for it other than repair bills and the task itself turning into a chore.

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Isn't AV like, the only real example of that? It was designed to be impossible.

Also I was in a mana burn party just as abyssea was launched. In a japanese one at that. I was a puller on my dnc. Same mana burn party I was allowed to leech in due to me being sick.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

This was due from people requiring certain party set ups Or needing people to join before they joined. (which was stupid)

I can't tell you how many times I tried forming a part after waiting 3 hours to be invited into one, only for ppl to say or ask

p1: do you have a rdm, brd, cor?
me: not yet
p1: then ask me when you do?
p2: how many member you got?
me: justy me atm
p2: invite me when you get 4--5 others
p3: do you have a tank?
me: not yet
p3: invite me when you have a tank.

Sorry the but ffxi players started to get chips on their shoulds or bad attitudes for petty reasons. Pretty much becoming premadonna (sp). Heck after a While I just duoed with my bf at the time (now my ex) or solo'ed fov pages. Which I ended up being a reason for nearly quiting.

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I know the feeling.. lol, before the server were declining a bit I would always build my parties as they were the only time I would party faster than waiting.. lol. I dont solo much.. I rather party with friends than be by myself and solo.. its kinda depressing doing things by yourself :/

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Sound like that mini game in FFX-2 to get the tourists out(<link), they all have a requirement like not too many, has to be the second person to join, etc lol..

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I HATED THAT MINI GAME.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Isn't AV like, the only real example of that? It was designed to be impossible.

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And what I'm saying is that the game does not need anything like that. FFXI didn't need anything like that, either.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Isn't AV like, the only real example of that? It was designed to be impossible.

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It is. It was designed to be killed based on a gimmick players never figured out. Pandemonium Warden is another super boss that took a bit to figure out how to properly kill it which people are killing it very "quickly" especially post cap raises. (And all they did to adjust PW was cap the fight to 3 hours max and take off a few forms, it's still at its original strength.)

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Originally Posted by Duelle

And what I'm saying is that the game does not need anything like that. FFXI didn't need anything like that, either.

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Yeah, this game doesn't need an impossible boss. It could use a boss that actually takes players a while to be able to take down though. Remember when Kirin and Dynamis Lord were ridiculously hard?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I know the feeling.. lol, before the server were declining a bit I would always build my parties as they were the only time I would party faster than waiting.. lol. I dont solo much.. I rather party with friends than be by myself and solo.. its kinda depressing doing things by yourself :/

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Prertty much tactics SE used in ffxi to get people to party more or have leving more easiere for solo

1 More classes
2 Fields of valor
3 Tweeked mobs
4 Tweeked mob locations
5 increased exp
6 exp rings
7 better buffs from signet, sigil, the past one inclusing exp loss from ko is reduced.

(not in order)

Pretty much you can say The player base ruined the game due to the chip everyone had

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Prertty much tactics SE used in ffxi to get people to party more or have leving more easiere for solo

1 More classes
2 Fields of valor
3 Tweeked mobs
4 Tweeked mob locations
5 increased exp
6 exp rings
7 better buffs from signet, sigil, the past one inclusing exp loss from ko is reduced.

(not in order)

Pretty much you can say The player base ruined the game due to the chip everyone had

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Yeah, this is what I do when I get invited to a party with me and the other person:

Player: Party do you need it?
Me: Yes Please
... Player invites me
Player: Hey Im still looking for players mind waiting?
Me: Sure I have no problem
Me in Real life Cooks dinner/watches tv/browsing the web anything to occupy my time
Player <call5> ok were ready
Me: *snort* oh were ready YAY!
Party gets ready to depart

This is how it should have gone except you can do what you want in your spare time lol

but people want to do things in the snap of there fingers lol

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Originally Posted by viion

Trying to solo MR. C Jack is challenging!

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Will do you one better, solo PoP or Sirocco. they both kicked my digital teeth in multiple times. Mind you i am a meat headed mrd. Though full disclosure i have not managed to best pop yet, I keep getting down to the the wire and he keeps getting trigger happy with thunderstorm. though i did find that sac 2 counters shock 2 pretty nicely. lol

Were probably going to have to agree to disagree on the r46 mission. I do like the fact that its a logic puzzle. The fact that it will knock you on your ass until you figure it out is what elevates above the fights that have occurred up to that point. You lucked out and had the win handed to you on your first try. I was not so lucky. But hey we both enjoyed the fight and had a good time by the sounds of it.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Yeah, this game doesn't need an impossible boss. It could use a boss that actually takes players a while to be able to take down though. Remember when Kirin and Dynamis Lord were ridiculously hard?

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I still wouldn't call those the pinnacle of encounter design from SE, seeing as one had to be kited to death and the other relied on Chainspell Stun.

There's a reason why I bring up stuff like Sartharion+3 and pretty much any of the Ulduar boss encounters from WoW when talking about actually hard encounters that were also well-balanced.

I wouldn't mind an AV in XIV, though I would like it if he roamed the world. Like how Deathwing in WoW dare I say it roams the world and if you are somehow in that same zone he kills you.

Ps: Those people that got sick from fighting AV, they just couldn't take that level of IMMERSION!.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

I wouldn't mind an AV in XIV, though I would like it if he roamed the world. Like how Deathwing in WoW dare I say it roams the world and if you are somehow in that same zone he kills you.

Ps: Those people that got sick from fighting AV, they just couldn't take that level of IMMERSION!.

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AV= Absolute Virtue?

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Originally Posted by Griss

Will do you one better, solo PoP or Sirocco. they both kicked my digital teeth in multiple times. Mind you i am a meat headed mrd. Though full disclosure i have not managed to best pop yet, I keep getting down to the the wire and he keeps getting trigger happy with thunderstorm. though i did find that sac 2 counters shock 2 pretty nicely. lol

Were probably going to have to agree to disagree on the r46 mission. I do like the fact that its a logic puzzle. The fact that it will knock you on your ass until you figure it out is what elevates above the fights that have occurred up to that point. You lucked out and had the win handed to you on your first try. I was not so lucky. But hey we both enjoyed the fight and had a good time by the sounds of it.

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Try fighting it at the edge of it's territory. use a binding attack like shadowbind, then run out of it's territory when you need to buff/heal, then continue to fight. Worked for me as a r43 arc.

I love ffxi. The fact that it was so hard that it really forced you to socialize and make friends. I remember a lot of epic battles that we had, and even some epic leveling. Try same party for 18 hours straight leveling. All those missions or NMs that you couldn't do without the help of good friends. A lot of relationships have formed, even marriages with ffxi. I still keep in contact with some people I meet thru ffxi and sometimes we reminisce about old times like old people remembering WWII. When someone wanted to quit, I really felt like crying many times. Those are the types of bonds that was developed in ffxi, something that is missing in other MMORPGs.

A lot of people didn't like how hard ffxi was, that's because you sat in town and seek for a party for hours on end. You never took that first foot forward and maybe made your own party. You tried to make a party a few times but stopped after getting rejected a few times. You are like that guy who stays a virgin, alone, and living on their parent's basement because they wouldn't take the risk of getting rejected, and tries to rationalize it by saying the world is elitist. Over time, you became hard headed, didn't listen to nobody, and thought you can do everything by yourself and compared yourself mostly to yourself and thought you were better than everybody. So here you are alone, hating this game that you've been playing for at least 6 years, but can't seem to put it down if you hated it so much. Did you really hate it or is the problem you?

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Try fighting it at the edge of it's territory. use a binding attack like shadowbind, then run out of it's territory when you need to buff/heal, then continue to fight. Worked for me as a r43 arc.

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Never liked taking routes to an easy win =)

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Originally Posted by Starlord

AV= Absolute Virtue?

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Yes, Article Click Me.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Yes, Article Click Me.

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His quote made me lul.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Yes, Article Click Me.

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I known of the Boss but I could never get anyone to do it.. and now I know the reason why... 18hours! >.>I love tough battles but thatslike killing your soul!...

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'm sorry, but no. The last thing we need is another mishap like absolute virtue. That was probably the only time I've ever felt true hatred for a team of developers. Specially after seeing how they reacted to any mention of AV.

There's a difference between a boss that is overtuned to a point it is nearly unbeatable by the best raid comp (C'thun, pre-nerf M'uru) and the crap that was AV. What I want is a well-balanced encounter that can be downed after some practice. Not something to wipe on week after week with nothing to show for it other than repair bills and the task itself turning into a chore.

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Not very well versed in wow raid boss history so i will have to take your word for it.

Perhaps i was hasty to invoke the name of the nm who shall not be named. Perhaps i am tilting at windmills here, but my point still stands and your more then welcome to disagree it. But a Final fantasy game with out optional things that will hand you your rear until you figure it out and get your strategy down pat is a hollow one.

I hope it does. I love XI with a passion!

It's one of the best old-school RPGs after FFIII. All people want to do these days is click cows and pretend they're playing a game.

FFXI was such a crappy game. Please dear god no.

I liked the music, atmosphere and style, but the gameplay and quality of programming (and network coding) wasn pretty subpar. I have seen small indy MMOs with smoother gameplay.

Is this a joke thread? This game is already extremely easy and with every update it seems to be getting easier:
1. NMs made easier
2. Less SP required to reach certain ranks.
3. You can even add that with leve linking now, it is way easier than before to get to R50.

There are some aspects of FFXI that I hated, like camping hours and days for a chance at claiming an NM, but I still want this game to be challenging.

Calm down hot shot. They haven't even implemented anything yet. Besides, FFXI was great the way it was, which is why it kept its services going longer than they expected. duh.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

I liked the music, atmosphere and style, but the gameplay and quality of programming (and network coding) wasn't pretty subpar. I have seen small indy MMOs with smoother gameplay.

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I think for a 10-year-old game, this can be taken as a great compliment.