The Artemis Bow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenkiei

@ Viridiana, if you count invigorate we're TP neutral on single target. . .

Also, bards burn less TP thank Dragoons? Wrong again. . .

---

No, we're not TP neutral on a single target. As soon as you introduce Straighter Shot procs and make any attempt to keep 100% uptime on DOTs, we start burning through TP fast. And yes, that's with 0 skill speed. The rest of your argument between waiting for full TP as opposed to doing some DPS while refilling basically harkens back to the old "pace yourself" vs "burn it fast" argument. Yes, I'll be performing sub-optimal at 200 TP. Yes, I could wait for full or nearly full to burn again. On the other hand, odds are good that there's something near death I can contribute to killing, even at 200 TP, so why not?

As for the DRG TP thing, I'll freely admit that I don't know much about DRG play at 50, but I will point out that using their improved Invigorate to say that they go through less TP than a BRD is like saying that BLM goes through less MP than a SMN because BLM has Umbral Ice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

So ... lemme get this straight. You want to spread rot to the mDPS? Ok ok, you're cool, I get it, you waited for the rot to pass twice, and you have an ace handle on the waves, and you got your eye to dodge the gravity wells, and you timed the laser.

Sidenote: don't macro your on-GCD abilities.

Lol I don't even use Fracture. In case you were ignorant, Dragoons have a DD+DOT called Phlebotomize that costs 90 TP. For reference, at 50ss a DRG burns 27.6 TP/s - 28.1 TP/s depending on what rotation they're using.

With the same SS, a BRD burns 27.0 TP/s.

---

-Didn't you just prove my point that it's possible to use repelling shot without dropping effects on the melee? It might only be a very small dps increase, however it's still a dps increase and therefore should be utilized whenever possible.
-What ever implied macroing on the GCD abilities? that's around a flat 20% dps loss to any char even assuming a perfect rotation macro because /wait 2.5 doesn't exist, it would further be useless for any class such as bard that is proc reliant...ZZzzz more bad logic/implications.
-Sadly not being a Drg I couldn't look that up however that's 1 skill, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't clip it much.
-ok....+100 TP from invigorate....even if statistically on paper a drg might burn more you're also forgetting that assumes the drg never moves to avoid a mechanic, thereby stopping their rotation, in an actual fight brds burn more than drgs.
-you don't use fracture, and you don't model executes, do you also decide to ignore gravity whenever you feel like flying?

------

Despite the claim that bards aren't TP neutral single target with 0 skill speed, I somehow don't run out of TP in a fight, including titan, now it could be that the few seconds he's untargetable, is just enough to tip the scales, but overall I'd say pure single target bards are functionally tp neutral with very low skill speed, however even if the argument is that they're slightly tp negative that would only make the skill speed is detrimental argument stronger, not weaker.

Also in terms of resource limitation it is fair to say that for single target dragoons have functionally infinite TP, similarly to black mages having functionally infinite mana, whereas summoners and monks functionally do NOT have infinite resources. Bard falls somewhere in the middle grey area with TP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woodberry

[...]

---

Sure, it's in excel though. http://www.fileswap.com/dl/MomxPfbQI/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenkiei

-you don't use fracture, and you don't model executes, do you also decide to ignore gravity whenever you feel like flying?

---

Err, Fracture's a DPS loss in many / most DRG sequences.

I don't model executes because they're pretty minor and my model's focused on rotation optimization more than anything -- not really a Bard concern, I know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Err, Fracture's a DPS loss in many / most DRG sequences.

I don't model executes because they're pretty minor and my model's focused on rotation optimization more than anything -- not really a Bard concern, I know.

---

Yep lets ignore a bard's 4th highest potency skill because it's only active in the last 20% of the fight, sounds perfectly legit it'll have no effect on the accuracy of your numbers at all! Further ignoring fracture because it's situational would be like...ignoring repelling shot for being situational.... just because you can't do it 100% of the time does not mean it is never worth doing.

Let's see ... at 22pps, ME will up BRD total DPS by roughly 10%, applicable during the last 20%. Assuming other DPS are using similar executes, the target will die roughly 1.8% sooner, meaning the Bard nets a total DPS increase of 1.8% by adding ME to the model.

Yeah, not worth it. I'm cool with my stat weight being 1.8% off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenkiei

Despite the claim that bards aren't TP neutral single target with 0 skill speed, I somehow don't run out of TP in a fight, including titan, now it could be that the few seconds he's untargetable, is just enough to tip the scales, but overall I'd say pure single target bards are functionally tp neutral with very low skill speed, however even if the argument is that they're slightly tp negative that would only make the skill speed is detrimental argument stronger, not weaker.

Also in terms of resource limitation it is fair to say that for single target dragoons have functionally infinite TP, similarly to black mages having functionally infinite mana, whereas summoners and monks functionally do NOT have infinite resources. Bard falls somewhere in the middle grey area with TP.

---

He's untargetable for roughly 27 seconds through the course of the fight. You're getting more TP from his invuln phases than what a DRG gets from Invigorate. And, again, SS only reaches 0 effect when you completely TP starve. Up until that point, it has a non-zero weight. And even in the worst case, it's still not a negative effect on your total dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenkiei

Yep lets ignore a bard's 4th highest potency skill because it's only active in the last 20% of the fight, sounds perfectly legit it'll have no effect on the accuracy of your numbers at all! Further ignoring fracture because it's situational would be like...ignoring repelling shot for being situational.... just because you can't do it 100% of the time does not mean it is never worth doing.

---

Well, it's on off-GCD ability only usable in the last 20%. Competing with it for use would be all of our other off-GCD abilities, including all of our buffs. So, with that said, it loses to Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye, Barrage, Flaming Arrow, and Blood for Blood. I'm too lazy to do math to see if it loses to Internal Release, and if you need Invigorate, it loses to that, too. Now, it does beat Bloodletter, Blunt Arrow, and Repelling Shot, but it's not fair to call it our 4th highest potency skill.

i feel like the bard class is un-polished.
in cb bard was archer(30)+conjurer(15), and then on release they switched the conjurer for monk, making bard a complete DD.
(making Archer a Top DD cause is the only DD with shared skills from the 3 physical damage dealers... only DD with 2 critic buffs, 2 dmg buffs, and a dex+acuracy buff)

So.. Bard used to have healing skills and also a heal LB.
And don't forget that in the Bard last job Quest we see our teacher using a healing song!(something we somehow never learned)

Just seems that when release came, they decided to suddenly turn Bard into a DD and left some mistakes around.
Low atk relic and Heal LB..

I just wish they would either finish what they started, by either making Bard into a DD, or just transform him into a support but also with heals and heal song.(and dex+mind equips)

Not to break up your conversation but I want to ask, do you think the Artemis bow would be better if the Skill Speed was replaced with Crit Chance or do you think the difference it would make is so small it wouldn't matter either way. Because in my mind 1.6% Crit Chance trumps 0.03? Second increase in Skill Speed. I also think that Skill Speed needs to be slightly reworked because you need a metric shit ton of it to make a big and worthwhile difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mugsan

Not to break up your conversation but I want to ask, do you think the Artemis bow would be better if the Skill Speed was replaced with Crit Chance or do you think the difference it would make is so small it wouldn't matter either way. Because in my mind 1.6% Crit Chance trumps 0.03? Second increase in Skill Speed. I also think that Skill Speed needs to be slightly reworked because you need a metric shit ton of it to make a big and worthwhile difference.

---

Certainly, the crit chance would be a better use of the itemization points. And, yes, the difference would be somewhat minor, but at this point the minor changes are the ones that matter, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

but at this point the minor changes are the ones that matter, no?

---

Exactly, now I don't mind the low WD because at the high turns our Songs are going to be on almost 100% of the time, but the extra little bit of crit chance will for that tiny little boost we might need to keep up.

I'm holding out for the Allagan Bow personally. Stats and math aside I like how it looks even better than the +1 relic.

By that point Mergadeth the +2 relic may be available.

To no one in particular.....

All this theory is....going to stop there....its theory. The developers have the ultimate say in what any stat is need for and how each class/character can be built, rebuilt, and which encounters//bosses need stat "X" etc. you can only mash so many buttons, and go through your rotations so quickly. nothing will change that.
Why am I even typing in here....2 months from now this whole thread will be obsolete.

as always...Play well, make friends, & enjoy the game for what it is....a game :) - remember how fun Super Mario Bros. was???? still is to this day...and he has no SS what so ever!

I prefer having SS to some stats as i cross class abilities like Internal release that buff my critical chance making it so i can fir off bloodletter every 2 or 3 seconds with a straight shot in between half of theBard buffs increase critical chance so a fully buffed bard using cross class critical boosts as well make for a very strong and fast DPS class maybe its is just me that finds SS more effective than crit rate?

I like the Artemis Bow. It's a pretty +1, it serves its purpose for a Support DPS role, and it looks fly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

And people forget the best thing about the artemis bow: it looks awesome, has an awesome animation, and does very satisfying click click click as it unfolds.

---

The "click click click" is the best hahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patchasaurus

half of theBard buffs increase critical chance so a fully buffed bard using cross class critical boosts as well make for a very strong and fast DPS class maybe its is just me that finds SS more effective than crit rate?

---

The only buffs BRD gets for crit chance are Straight Shot and Internal Release. It's pretty well established that Skill Speed is the bottom of the barrel for pretty much everyone.