Is 1-20 Too fast?

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Originally Posted by Nipa

72 hours of play (in group) should be enough to get a single job to rank 50. I don't care on how it's balanced between low ranks and higher ranks, but more than 72 hours in total is grind.

Maybe 100 hours for those who want to solo?

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Then i recommend DCUO max lvl is 3 days as a casual. Mmo are not made for fast lvling as ppl run outa stuff to do, then only log for endgame. Which tend to be 2 -3 days outa the week.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Meh in a decent party you can get a rank per leve cycle for 40-50, that's not so bad at all.

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Yes, but compared to 1-40 thats extreme. The entire leveling curve seems entirely way too unbalanced. Its like being on speed then crashing.


SUPERFAST, FAST, Kind fast, wow this is not that fast, ok this is kinda slow, ok now I'm bored.


It burns a player out because it doesn't seem balanced. You set up this expectation for how quickly a character can raise themselves in rank. If its balanced it doesn't feel too awefully much like a grind. If its too slow the entire time it feels horribly like a grind, if its too horrible fast it nulls the sense of achievement.

it also depends a lot on how you re playing for a casual it takes months to get one class 50 and for a nolife it takes 3 weeks

The super fast 1-20 ranking has only been put into place so new people don't quit before they get their first class mission. SE expects people to get hooked on the mission stuff so they'll put up with the more tougher grinding just to get their next crackfix, I mean... mission

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

The super fast 1-20 ranking has only been put into place so new people don't quit before they get their first class mission. SE expects people to get hooked on the mission stuff so they'll put up with the more tougher grinding just to get their next crackfix, I mean... mission

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I understand that. But compared to the rest of the game its too fast. Either they need to rebalance everything 20-50 or they need to tweak 1-50 total so it balances out.

Meh, I think they need to condense content down in levels anyway. I personally think the current missions should finish by rank 35ish with new ones taking up that higher end so that the story isn't so thin. I also think things like spells should be condensed down, so we get higher ranks by rank 50.

It would certainly make the first 20-30 ranks more interesting, and justify slightly slower levelling speed pre-20. Then we could have the more epic group-based challenging story missions from 35 onwards.

It's obvious that they intended to pretty quickly raise the level cap, but the way the game is now i think it would be wiser to stay at 50, increase the quality and then move on in an expansion or something.

Off-topic a bit, but yeah, 1-20 should be slower and more interesting.

Leveling from 1 to 20 or 1 to 23 isn't just superfast when you play in a party. Did 1-17 in about 40min solo. It took me 2h to get to 24 (duo).
And this is just ridiculous. Gaining several Ranks for killing one enemy is too much.
I mean 1-20 should be way faster than 21-30, but please not 10 times as fast.

BUT
Without low rank content there is no real reason to change it. So we need way slower leveling and rank 10+ content.

But basically i dont understand why the sp system and requirements are so complicated in the first place. The RPG leveling system was perfectly fine 20 years ago, with a slight increase of exp required every new level.

I don't mind being able to going past the first 20 ranks at this speed. There is nothing to do, and you don't have any skills to make your class "playable" yet. I hated the low-level pointless grind in ffxi when you didn't have anything except Fast Blade to spice things up.

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Originally Posted by Nayt

I don't mind being able to going past the first 20 ranks at this speed. There is nothing to do, and you don't have any skills to make your class "playable" yet. I hated the low-level pointless grind in ffxi when you didn't have anything except Fast Blade to spice things up.

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As I said previously, there are a huge range of unincluded skills and spells in the game, they could easily condense them down into the current level range and simply create new things with future patches. That said, I think there's a pretty healthy amount of spells received pre-20 anyway, far more than FFXi that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Then i recommend DCUO max lvl is 3 days as a casual. Mmo are not made for fast lvling as ppl run outa stuff to do, then only log for endgame. Which tend to be 2 -3 days outa the week.

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3 days of playtime is a month playing 3 hours a day. This is not really casual. I think you'll have to stretch it to 2 month if you want to use this qualifier.

In fact, 3 days to max level is the current standard for solo progression (in Rift or WoW, for instance). You can level faster in those games by doing group content.

Here, I was advocating 3 days of playtime doing a group based content to max a single job.

Since we are not really supposed to play a single job, it looks like a good compromise to me: allowing everyone to get a rank max in 2 or 3 months (the worst case being a casual playing in solo), yet requiring more than a whole month of playtime to max every single class.

I think the whole balancing should work around this idea: a casual player (1.5 days of playtime a month, maybe) playing in solo should be able to level a single job to rank max in less than 2 months. This, of course, including rest xp/fatigue, whatever they decide to call it here.

If you don't at least balance around that, you will never have more than hardcore dedicated players on this game, which is not something we want, I guess.

Simple solution: Fix the EXP curve

I do feel 1 - 20 is too fast, but until there is a lot of things to do at those levels I can't blame them for speeding the progress up. The class quests start at 20, but if they added new lower level class quests and other things to distract from the grind then they might want to think about slowing down the 1-20 grind.

I think its ok. Did you grind in other mmorpgs ? there 49>50 takes over month. you can hit 49>50 in 4days here.

No, its fine how it is, grinding is pointless, slowing it down is pointless and will only piss off a lot of new players.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

I think its ok. Did you grind in other mmorpgs ? there 49>50 takes over month. you can hit 49>50 in 4days here.

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That isn't the complaint here. The complaint is.

1-20 Takes less then 2 hours. 30 minutes under optimal Circumstances. The XP curve is borked the whole thing needs rebalanced.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

That isn't the complaint here. The complaint is.

1-20 Takes less then 2 hours. 30 minutes under optimal Circumstances. The XP curve is borked the whole thing needs rebalanced.

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ye thats pretty fast but then thats only combat. crafts and gathering is alot slower

Its not fast because your average person isn't going to go out and spend 2hrs straight and be able to make 20, there leves will run out by time they hit 10. (My friend just joined and without linking he hits 10 after 8 leves).

Also new players wont even know what levelinking is, or even be able to do it properly because not knowing anyone, or not being able to get enough. They also probably will end up doing something else @ 10 and waiting for leves to come back.

Also it keeps them hooked, they dont feel the stupid useless grind, keeps players playing which is good for SE. So in the long run if SE can get more people staying by having this system, your opinion means absolute nothing. No ones does, sadly, its all about keeping people playing. And as you all know (or think) theres a lot of new people starting.

For me levelling up and gaining ranks is part of the journey and progression. If it is handed to you on a plate then they might as well start you off at level cap. In single player FF games you grind your levels where needed and there is challenging content and milestones on the way and that is how it should be in FFXIV. The problem is that the game is just a grind and there is very little in between.

They need to put in those milestones along that journey to make it worthwhile, it shouldn't just be a rush to endgame before you hit content there needs to be sustenance along the way. I do think that 1-20 is too fast but they can't slow it down until the game content in place to break up the grind.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

To me 1-20 is to fast and 40-50 is to long, 20-40 is juuuuust right.

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The reason why R40-50 takes a long time is cause we don't have R50 leves yet.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

I think its ok. Did you grind in other mmorpgs ? there 49>50 takes over month. you can hit 49>50 in 4days here.

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4 days? Try 4-5 hours in a Raptor party lol.

The curve could use some leveling out but it's not too bad right now. This is one of the least grindy MMOs I've ever played. Not like Aion where it took you days to a week to gain single ranks past 40 of straight grinding.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

4 days? Try 4-5 hours in a Raptor party lol.

The curve could use some leveling out but it's not too bad right now. This is one of the least grindy MMOs I've ever played. Not like Aion where it took you days to a week to gain single ranks past 40 of straight grinding.

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or 2 sessions in a static leve party with just dunes ranine and cracked up

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Originally Posted by Arcell

4 days? Try 4-5 hours in a Raptor party lol.

The curve could use some leveling out but it's not too bad right now. This is one of the least grindy MMOs I've ever played. Not like Aion where it took you days to a week to gain single ranks past 40 of straight grinding.

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Yeah, but a MMO with too little grinding has a price. We probably wouldn't have nearly the amount of post complaining about content and "Nothing to do" and such if the grind was over more levels, or the amount to level early on was a lot longer.

The problem is that SE fixed SP and then added leve linking and then added an additional bonus from 1-20.

It's way too fast IMO, they need to make 1-20 twice as long and 40-50 half as long lol.

Some people still don't understand though.. with how fast it is, people aren't getting a grip on what their job/WS do and what their purpose is in combat. The way you just get them is crazy and pointless. Like Alexia said, they might as well start you at r20 >.>

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Some people still don't understand though.. with how fast it is, people aren't getting a grip on what their job/WS do and what their purpose is in combat. The way you just get them is crazy and pointless. Like Alexia said, they might as well start you at r20 >.>

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This matches my views on the matter. The purpose of leveling is to learn to play the game, and to learn to use your new abilities before you get the next ones. Reaching rank 6 in a single leve after the SP changes just meant I was acquiring abilities faster than I had a chance to even use them, let alone figure out how to use them most effectively.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Some people still don't understand though.. with how fast it is, people aren't getting a grip on what their job/WS do and what their purpose is in combat. The way you just get them is crazy and pointless. Like Alexia said, they might as well start you at r20 >.>

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I would say that is an issue with leves in genral, the mobs are so easy to kill in almost all the leves it is just a strait out zerg. If SE wants to fix it and make people learn their job they need to add mobs that will slaughter people if they do it wrong... the buffalo NM is a good example, stand in the wrong spot or not know how to tank and that fight can go south fast. Outside that mob everything else in the game is too easy to require strategy to kill.

At rank 20 I you can actually start making jobs out of the classes, with the abilities from everything. Atm I say most people are still stuck in the mind set that classes = jobs in this game it is obvious by looking at people with like 1 rank 50 and everything else at 10-15. People doing this trully have no idea how gimp they really are.

Get all the required classes for you job to 20 you can actually start to tank better, dd better, heal better, and so on.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I would say that is an issue with leves in genral, the mobs are so easy to kill in almost all the leves it is just a strait out zerg. If SE wants to fix it and make people learn their job they need to add mobs that will slaughter people if they do it wrong... the buffalo NM is a good example, stand in the wrong spot or not know how to tank and that fight can go south fast. Outside that mob everything else in the game is too easy to require strategy to kill.

At rank 20 I you can actually start making jobs out of the classes, with the abilities from everything. Atm I say most people are still stuck in the mind set that classes = jobs in this game it is obvious by looking at people with like 1 rank 50 and everything else at 10-15. People doing this trully have no idea how gimp they really are.

Get all the required classes for you job to 20 you can actually start to tank better, dd better, heal better, and so on.

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the whole lvl via leve quests wasnt gonna work anyhow, there either to easy and not a challange and u end up with players not knowing there class/jobs or there too hard and peeps just spam perticular ones to grind sp cuz the rewards often aint worth the time. while u can tweek them to diff still really doesnt improve them much.

I remember when the game first came out I had some pretty nice grind parties in mun-tuy cellars, the mines near ul'dah, and off crabs. Whatever happens I just hope this game doesn't get the treatment FFXI is currently getting (Catering to casuals to the extent of practically giving away the best shit and making exping to max level a breeze).

If the game was like it used to be, I'd still play it. Leves weren't the center focus in the game. Combat isn't bad when you have semi difficult mobs.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree that R1-20 is too fast. I'd like to spend more time at the R1/R10/R20 camps -- it seems a shame to me that we zoom through the first 20 ranks and spend so little time at the camps for those ranks doing those leves and grinding on the mobs. Not to mention having your progress slow down do dramatically after can be discouraging, IMHO. And this is probably a strange thought, but I kind of feel that making R1-20 so easy and quick doesn't really help with the issue of class uniqueness.

I don't think it should take more time overall to hit R50, but I think the curve should be evened out a bit. Just my two cents! ^^

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I've seen some speedrun videos online of players playing a new character and showing how fast it takes to get a Bare naked rank 1/phys 1 noob character up to 20. with the right set up and in a group it literally takes about 15 minutes from the time you get out of the starting cutscenes to the time you hit rank 10. Then another hour at the most to hit rank 20. This feat in Final Fantasy XI took approximately 10 hours of dedicated play. And most players didn't head to Valkurm til they had atleast 2 jobs to 10 or 15 and had time to farm the gear they needed to perform a job.

FFXII it took atleast 8 hours of dedicated play to hit the 20's if you were grinding ahead of the story (I know, I faught Alarunes in the desert till 30 with just Vaan and Penelo.)

FFIX took about 6 hours IIRC.

FFVII you hit 20 about the time you left Midgar which was about 5-8 hours.

ffVI I can't even remember how long it took to get to 20.


I feel the first few ranks are too quick. They fly by like a cannonball leaving you feeling like there wasn't as big an accomplishment getting to what would normally be a huge milemarker. Rank 20 is about 1/3rd of the way to cap

But then theres a sudden change in leveling speed. The amount of time it takes to get from 20-50 is three times per level in some cases to what it was for 1-20.

I'm just concerned that the speed it takes to go from 20 then all of a sudden it all tapering off all at once will result in burnout for a lot of players.

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MMO =/= offline RPG. Leveling speed tends to be much more uniform in offline games until you get to the very end of the story.

Not at all worth comparing.

By the way, no, 1-20 is fine. For new players it will be slow, and that's fine. For experienced players who already have a high physical level and extra gear and know exactly where to go and what to do, it's fine being quick.

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Originally Posted by Fleur

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree that R1-20 is too fast. I'd like to spend more time at the R1/R10/R20 camps -- it seems a shame to me that we zoom through the first 20 ranks and spend so little time at the camps for those ranks doing those leves and grinding on the mobs. Not to mention having your progress slow down do dramatically after can be discouraging, IMHO. And this is probably a strange thought, but I kind of feel that making R1-20 so easy and quick doesn't really help with the issue of class uniqueness.

I don't think it should take more time overall to hit R50, but I think the curve should be evened out a bit. Just my two cents! ^^

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The same effect happened in XI a lot before they fixed the XP Curve there.

1-50 was easy. But as soon as you hit 50 and started going past it XPing was tediously slowed down to drastic levels and as a result a lot of players simply stopped playing that job once they hit 50 and went and leveled the next Flavor of the month job to 50. Once they got all the jobs they thought they liked to 50 and had no other choice they forged past to 75 on their favorite.

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Originally Posted by bsphil

MMO =/= offline RPG. Leveling speed tends to be much more uniform in offline games until you get to the very end of the story.

Not at all worth comparing.

By the way, no, 1-20 is fine. For new players it will be slow, and that's fine. For experienced players who already have a high physical level and extra gear and know exactly where to go and what to do, it's fine being quick.

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Have you played since the game first launched? The way we leveled was tedious but atleast people knew how each class or job worked. It is way too fast now. Seriously, you shouldn't be able to rank up to 5 in one leve. It should be gradual

R1-20 is only quick if you know how to do it that way.

In it's current state, R1-20 is just right; if you're a new player, you're not going to know how to optimize your SP.. If you make it harder to rank up from 1-20, the people you are going to hurt most are those new to the game; veterans will simply re-optimize their leveling process and still finish it relatively quickly.

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Originally Posted by Nipa

3 days of playtime is a month playing 3 hours a day. This is not really casual. I think you'll have to stretch it to 2 month if you want to use this qualifier.

In fact, 3 days to max level is the current standard for solo progression (in Rift or WoW, for instance). You can level faster in those games by doing group content.

Here, I was advocating 3 days of playtime doing a group based content to max a single job.

Since we are not really supposed to play a single job, it looks like a good compromise to me: allowing everyone to get a rank max in 2 or 3 months (the worst case being a casual playing in solo), yet requiring more than a whole month of playtime to max every single class.

I think the whole balancing should work around this idea: a casual player (1.5 days of playtime a month, maybe) playing in solo should be able to level a single job to rank max in less than 2 months. This, of course, including rest xp/fatigue, whatever they decide to call it here.

If you don't at least balance around that, you will never have more than hardcore dedicated players on this game, which is not something we want, I guess.

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no i mean literaly 3 days. DCUO at launch was 1-30. which is 100% soloable. By a week EVERYONE had 1 30 working on a new character as of launch. by the first mnth people had 4 level 30s. MMO are NOT fast games. your numbers is for single player games not mmo. They want ppl loged in everyday to justify a fee. even if its for 2 hrs. the faster you hit max level the less you have to do. Yet the mindset is ppl want to level up fast. Gamers now a days beat games fast. And basicaly want a no grind mmo (which doesn't exist.) MMO are ment for PROLONGED game play not fast game play.

If you want to se a no grind mmo play DCUO. only "grind" is for gear, and that is if people allow you to do the content.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

That isn't the complaint here. The complaint is.

1-20 Takes less then 2 hours. 30 minutes under optimal Circumstances. The XP curve is borked the whole thing needs rebalanced.

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tbh no mmo has a balanced leveling curve the higher the level the longer it takes. What PLAYERS did is ease the exp/sp per hour. And found leveling "sweet spots" for certain ranges. But all mmo have that issue of slow and fast sprints. Also no it doesn't take 2 hours to go from 1-20. trust me. I never hit 20- yet. And I tried all cities. You guys seriously "whine" over the dumbest stuff. Can't yall just play then game and only whine over game flaws? Leveling 1-20 in 30-2 hours or 3 days is not a game flaw.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

no i mean literaly 3 days. DCUO at launch was 1-30. which is 100% soloable. By a week EVERYONE had 1 30 working on a new character as of launch. by the first mnth people had 4 level 30s. MMO are NOT fast games. your numbers is for single player games not mmo. They want ppl loged in everyday to justify a fee. even if its for 2 hrs. the faster you hit max level the less you have to do. Yet the mindset is ppl want to level up fast. Gamers now a days beat games fast. And basicaly want a no grind mmo (which doesn't exist.) MMO are ment for PROLONGED game play not fast game play.

If you want to se a no grind mmo play DCUO. only "grind" is for gear, and that is if people allow you to do the content.

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OMG the 7th Umbral Era is upon us, the end is nigh, I actually agree with Kilta O.O

Even from a pure business stand point surely the idea is to keep people playing. If you make the levelling part super quick then all the players have left is endgame to keep them entertained and how long will that last. I know some people like the idea of hitting cap asap but I sit on the other side of the fence. For me I actually like levelling up, unlocking new things and working towards that next goal. However that is a department FFXIV is lacking in severely for me as when I am ranking up I have nothing to look forward to at that next rank at the minute.

For me FFXI had the perfect curve, if you don't include all the time spent LFG the actual distance between ranks and time needed between ranks was fine for me. The main thing though was that I was driven to get to that next step all the way and that made it not seem like a huge grind as there was something just around the corner if I got these next few ranks. Then once I hit cap and actually started looking at endgame it was like all that ranking up was like a huge tutorial and I had only just scratched the surface of what content was on hand. So for me that is where FFXIV is currently dropping a lot of points.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

For me levelling up and gaining ranks is part of the journey and progression. If it is handed to you on a plate then they might as well start you off at level cap. In single player FF games you grind your levels where needed and there is challenging content and milestones on the way and that is how it should be in FFXIV. The problem is that the game is just a grind and there is very little in between.

They need to put in those milestones along that journey to make it worthwhile, it shouldn't just be a rush to endgame before you hit content there needs to be sustenance along the way. I do think that 1-20 is too fast but they can't slow it down until the game content in place to break up the grind.

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Playing FFXI I never understood why some people would rush to max level. To me leveling WAS content.. Gaining levels so I can wear that next new piece of gear, get that next important quest like chocobo/airship access.. Go to that next new leveling area. There were many things along the way that made it fun. But the best part for me was the leveling parties. The people. People made it fun. I loved having to party with people to level. That to me was the real content.. The journey to the endgame. Once I got to the end I honestly got a little bored of the repetition.

What would fix it to me is if they slowed down 1-20 and added things to accomplish.. Like a chocobo access quest at rank 20, or 30. If Armor was limited by rank, and you could look forward to that new rank because of the gear that would come with it. And we need more of a push to party up with people.. For real parties.. none of this 5 minute leve party junk. I miss those good old 3 hour groups where you could get to know people.. make friends, and have fun.
If they fixed all that, I'd be willing to start my character over so I could enjoy a real game.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

Playing FFXI I never understood why some people would rush to max level. To me leveling WAS content.. Gaining levels so I can wear that next new piece of gear, get that next important quest like chocobo/airship access.. Go to that next new leveling area. There were many things along the way that made it fun. But the best part for me was the leveling parties. The people. People made it fun. I loved having to party with people to level. That to me was the real content.. The journey to the endgame. Once I got to the end I honestly got a little bored of the repetition.

What would fix it to me is if they slowed down 1-20 and added things to accomplish.. Like a chocobo access quest at rank 20, or 30. If Armor was limited by rank, and you could look forward to that new rank because of the gear that would come with it. And we need more of a push to party up with people.. For real parties.. none of this 5 minute leve party junk. I miss those good old 3 hour groups where you could get to know people.. make friends, and have fun.
If they fixed all that, I'd be willing to start my character over so I could enjoy a real game.

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Exactly and that is what I miss, glad I am not the only one that feels that way ^^

Personally, it took me one hour to get a job from 1 to 10 with no guild leve's. But it took me at least a couple of days to get it to 20. It was fast, but it is nice to be a little stronger when one goes exploring for new Aetheryte's or new areas.