Penalize players who adjust their prices too frequently

A lot of people seem to feel that undercutting is great for the economy. And I, amoung others feel it is excessive.

Would the first group be happy if:

All Items NPC for 1g,
All items can only be listed for sale at 1g,
No taxes.

Now, buying power is absolute, you can buy as many of what ever you want for a pittance. But good luck selling things.

Even with 'overpriced' items, it means the seller has more gil to spend, on either mats to produce more goods, or on other things. When he buys things, that gil goes to others and continues to flow.

Consumers will always want lower prices, and that is to be expected. But the money those consumers spend has to come from somewhere.

Employees get pay, buy things from stores, stores pay their employees, those buy goods from other stores. If you constantly undercut the income for stores/crafters, they wont have the income to buy goods from others.

if they would bring back the function to buy singles from a stack (as an optional check box maybe), it would probably help the issue of undercutting. its' very hard for prices on stackable items to stabilize when the cost ranges are between buying a single item and buying freaking 99. as a crafter or something listing stacks, you'd have a steady trickle of income coming in from a stack listed rather then having it sit on the market forever and having to lower it more and more in cost because no one wants to buy 99 of what your selling and you don't have the space to sell it in smaller chunks.

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Originally Posted by RagnaBeoulve

For those who say "this is how free markets work" and offers no solution - 'claps' to you for your ignorance in failing to understand the root of the problem, however I've not the time to enlighten you on your narrow minds.

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My undergraduate degree in Economics and my MBA specializing in Finance have apparently caused me to have a "narrow mind". But I pursued those degrees because I have a strong passion and interest in economics and finance, so I'd very much prefer if you'd edify me. Please, for the sake of my intellectual curiosity, find the time to explain how I am ignorant, how I have failed to understand the "root of the problem", and how free markets are a problem in need of a solution, as you imply. I would be indebted to you.

The OP needs to stop crying, thats how things work. if i can offer a product cheaper, ... thus prices of alot of things will go down. or if you can make something that no one has or that people need. , u can charge what ever you want, if someone
is willing to pay, then its worth x. but if i offer it for a lower price then someone makes a choice. its how a free market system works and it works 100% of the time. prices start high, but as more and more ppl get int the market. prices drop.

people buying are not obligated to pay a high price if its offered lower. if you want to sell try relisting it lower. at some point the price will even out and become set.. it will go up a little or down a little, but it will settle in, sorry no one is willing to
over pay for your product when someone else will sell it cheaper.

I undercut things by 1 gil all the time BUT I'm not silly to undercut by 1 gil off of an already 50% undercut item.
Say, a whole list of oranges going for 100 gil each with the top of the list selling one for 50 gil. I would just put up mine for 99 gil. It's common sense because it would list my orange below the 50 gil one while above all the 100 gil ones. I don't think it's silly at all.

please..i undercut by 1 gil, not thousands, thats just plain silly :D

nothing wrong with undercutting thats how market works.

some people do some crazy undercuts which is stupid but oh well.

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Originally Posted by MitArgento

please..i undercut by 1 gil, not thousands, thats just plain silly :D

nothing wrong with undercutting thats how market works.

some people do some crazy undercuts which is stupid but oh well.

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The point is that one can design a market in many different ways. Currently due to a psychological factor that makes people prefer a 1 gil lower price rather than a 1 gil higher price when they are practically the same and should therefore be chosen at random, combined with no adjusting fee, causes many sellers to not think about their initial price setting and simply try to undercut by 1 gil.

If the market rules are changed to let's say 2% adjustment tax, then suddenly sellers have to change behaviour and think a lot more about their initial pricing. This leads to that each individual seller has to do less mechanical work in the sense of readjusting prices, but more thinking when it comes to actual price setting.

The latter market scenario sounds far more interesting to me and that's why I would prefer it.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

A lot of people seem to feel that undercutting is great for the economy. And I, amoung others feel it is excessive.
Would the first group be happy if:

All Items NPC for 1g,
All items can only be listed for sale at 1g,
No taxes.

Now, buying power is absolute, you can buy as many of what ever you want for a pittance. But good luck selling things.

Even with 'overpriced' items, it means the seller has more gil to spend, on either mats to produce more goods, or on other things. When he buys things, that gil goes to others and continues to flow.

Consumers will always want lower prices, and that is to be expected. But the money those consumers spend has to come from somewhere.

Employees get pay, buy things from stores, stores pay their employees, those buy goods from other stores. If you constantly undercut the income for stores/crafters, they wont have the income to buy goods from others.

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You've only got half the story correct.

Most proposed explanation that undercutting is bad is that they operate under the assumption that undercutting will lead to the item being sell at 1gil. Will that really happen?

Resources are finite, even in MMO. Mats are restricted by the drop rate, and the time that you can commit to it, and that affects supply. If item A sells at 1 gil, and it is a high demand item in which the supply cannot keep up, will the clearing price still stay at 1 gil? Will you still supply item A that only sells for 1gil when there are other items that can give you a higher profit? And if you switch to selling other more profitable item, what happens to the supply and price of item A given the same demand level?

Buying/spending power as you've explained are much more complicated than what you've explained, even in an MMO. The primary factor that determines those are the inflation/deflation level, in which the primary factor is the money supply.

So, say you're selling item A at 1000 now...and someone undercuts you by selling it at 500. How sure are you that you are not overpricing it? How can you tell that 500 is underpriced? Maybe 500 is the equilibrium level and you've been selling it at a premium? Say you're the sole seller in that market, and you've manage to sell 5 units per day...and I come in and sells 15 per day at 500...who's got the right price? It doesn't matter...what matters is that I've manage to sell 15 units at 500, thus 15 more units gets to the hands of buyers who needs it at half the price it was.

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Originally Posted by cearka

if they would bring back the function to buy singles from a stack (as an optional check box maybe), it would probably help the issue of undercutting. its' very hard for prices on stackable items to stabilize when the cost ranges are between buying a single item and buying freaking 99. as a crafter or something listing stacks, you'd have a steady trickle of income coming in from a stack listed rather then having it sit on the market forever and having to lower it more and more in cost because no one wants to buy 99 of what your selling and you don't have the space to sell it in smaller chunks.

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Right now, if you're selling 1000 crystals at 40, I can break it up and sell 500 unit of them at 42, and 100 unit at 45. Say now buyer can buy singles. How do you think I will price my crystal? 45? 42? or 40? Fact is, I'll price it at a lower price at 40 at the first post. This is good for the buyer since they'll be getting their item at a cheaper price, but not so good for the seller as they can no longer do break bulk selling at a premium. Overall, it's better for the economy, but a better trader/gatherer/crafter will still stand to be more profitable than the bad ones.

Rather then attempting trying to penalize undercutting we should be putting a maximum profit gain ceiling to these items. That way we won't have this ridiculously overpriced items.

How do you determine how much is the ceiling price of an item?

Say silver ore is worth 20 now, and we put a ceiling at 30. Then one fine day, there isn't enough supply of silver...and I'm willing to pay 40 for that because to me, it's worth that much. How then? And those that are willing to sell can only sell it at 30. At the macroeconomic scale of things, if a price ceiling is set, then it will artificially restrict the supply of silver ore that players are willing to supply...becuase those that wants to sell at 40 for a wider margin won't bother selling this item anymore because there could be some other items that gives them a better margin. Any artificial inteference on price is never a good thing for an economy, and is only done for political purposes (for both good and bad).

That is still micro. Never use politics as an excuse in economics. Every time a market deviates from the competitive model, you have reason to interfere - that is, every single time in the real world.

Players are still learning what the equilibria prices are. If they can freely change their prices to get a feel of the market, this will go along much faster. But bear in mind this is a very complicated process, mainly because of heterogeneous agents, but it will be much easier to learn and for everything to fall in place once the bulk of the crafting population has reached L50.

But I have to admit... it is possible that sticky prices (this suggestion adds inertia to prices) could help. But, as an observer, I'm not that interested. I've already been seeing RMTers anchoring prices in Leviathan for weeks now.

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Originally Posted by Toranja

That is still micro. Never use politics as an excuse in economics. Every time a market deviates from the competitive model, you have reason to interfere - that is, every single time in the real world.

Players are still learning what the equilibria prices are. If they can freely change their prices to get a feel of the market, this will go along much faster. But bear in mind this is a very complicated process, mainly because of heterogeneous agents, but it will be much easier to learn and for everything to fall in place once the bulk of the crafting population has reached L50.

But I have to admit... it is possible that sticky prices (this suggestion adds inertia to prices) could help. But, as an observer, I'm not that interested. I've already been seeing RMTers anchoring prices in Leviathan for weeks now.

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=off topic=
Well...I don't agree on government inteference, but I do see the neccesity of it on times. Agriculture subsidies in the US and some other large country is done to secure their own food source in case of conflict, so bad for economy, but good for the security of the nation. And due to sticky price and price inertia/momentum, government needs both fiscal & monetery policy to put a break on that (though the timing is another matter).

=on topic=
I'm all in for free price adjustment as it improves market liquidity.

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Originally Posted by Wazabi

I'm all in for free price adjustment as it improves market liquidity.

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While it seems counter intuitive, sometimes a market can be too liquid, preventing stabilization.

And thats the issue we have now, overly liquid market running down our legs after some bad Mexican food.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

While it seems counter intuitive, sometimes a market can be too liquid, preventing stabilization.

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Oh boy, please explain I'd love to hear this.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

Oh boy, please explain I'd love to hear this.

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Hmph, I would like to as well. I would like to know what is causing him to come to this sort of reasoning.

A single sellers post, can disproportionally affect the average cost of an item because of the chain reaction undercutting we are currently seeing.

If there is an item with 5 stacks on the market, and a single seller undercuts by half, most of the sellers will then match or undercut that single new seller.

SUPPLY was not greatly increased, demand is unchanged, but the value as determined by market dropped significantly.

The only logic followed by most sellers now is:
Buyer wants to buy lowest price Item.
Lowest price item will sell first.
I must sell at lowest price.


Zigkid constantly believes in the powers of supply and demand over the powers of human nature.
All it takes is a single seller, even selling a single item, to cause a chain reaction of undercuts (were people smarter they would buy out the undercutter and relist, but they dont).

If there were a penalty, or anything to discourage matching or undercutting the lowest price, it would weaken human nature and give the supply/demand curve a chance.

Equilibrium is the word Zigkid uses over and over.
But when the price swings wildly, constantly, how is that equilibrium?

A note, for the most part, I sell crafting mats, ingots, leathers, lumber etc, I'm also a gatherer so my margins are good.
But when x leather which sold for 250g yesterday, and 250g last week, drops to 80g today, then 120g tomorrow, and gets back to 250g next week and stays steady, then the next day drops to 80 again, how is that equilibrium?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

A single sellers post, can disproportionally affect the average cost of an item because of the chain reaction undercutting we are currently seeing.

If there is an item with 5 stacks on the market, and a single seller undercuts by half, most of the sellers will then match or undercut that single new seller.

SUPPLY was not greatly increased, demand is unchanged, but the value as determined by market dropped significantly.

The only logic followed by most sellers now is:
Buyer wants to buy lowest price Item.
Lowest price item will sell first.
I must sell at lowest price.


Zigkid constantly believes in the powers of supply and demand over the powers of human nature.
All it takes is a single seller, even selling a single item, to cause a chain reaction of undercuts (were people smarter they would buy out the undercutter and relist, but they dont).

If there were a penalty, or anything to discourage matching or undercutting the lowest price, it would weaken human nature and give the supply/demand curve a chance.

Equilibrium is the word Zigkid uses over and over.
But when the price swings wildly, constantly, how is that equilibrium?

A note, for the most part, I sell crafting mats, ingots, leathers, lumber etc, I'm also a gatherer so my margins are good.
But when x leather which sold for 250g yesterday, and 250g last week, drops to 80g today, then 120g tomorrow, and gets back to 250g next week and stays steady, then the next day drops to 80 again, how is that equilibrium?

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It's funny how you can't see that supply and demand takes into account human nature.
If there a ton, and I mean a TON of an item, but no one wants it, what will happen? If there's an item that is super rare and everyone needs it, what will happen?

On to the single undercutter you mentioned. it's been established that a value of an item on individual basis is subjective, the market value being a collection of what everyone values them for. So if someone undercuts someone else, they value that item less. if people constantly undercut each other then those people are willing and able to drop their price to beat the competition. you are right that the amount supplied and demand have not changed in quantity. However supply has definitely changed, not as a shift, but a change in the slope of the supply curve in order to fix itself to what it should be.

a chain reaction of undercuts is a good thing because it allows the market to fix itself to any changes at a faster pace. With a limit on adjusting prices, the market will adjust to changes at a slower pace, this is bad because the market value will not reflect the actual values of what items should be and it can cause major gaps in pricing which would make price fluctuations even worse.

freely adjustable market:
supply 1000g>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>500g<demand

limits on adjusting prices:
supply 1000g...............900g...............800g.................600g.............550g..........500g<demand

there's a rough example on what it would look like. in the first example people will constantly undercut at a fast rate to reach demand. In the 2nd example people will still undercut each other regardless the undercutting won't go away but now it takes a longer time to reach equilibrium.

As for your example, you are under the assumption that supply is always the same and that demand is always the same and thus the price should always be the same. However supply and demand is always changing, always, because of this the equilibrium needs to adjust accordingly. In a fast and liquid market it is able to do so, in a slow market which you're proposing it is not able to do so. Say someone comes up to buy a bunch of X items, that person has increased the demand and decreased the supply so the equilibrium has changed. Say someone floods the market with an item, they have increased supply and thus prices will drop. As a living economy these changes are always happening. However this is assuming the case that one individual can have a significant impact on the market and not taking into account what other people in the market are doing. if there was an in game change however, like a patch, that effected everyone and the whole market then the equilibrium will change accordingly. in a liquid market, the prices can reflect these changes and adjust to the new equilibrium faster. In a slow market which is what you want, the prices will not match that actual supply/demand for an item and will have price gaps. These drastic changes that you see are probably from items with very few suppliers and little demand so the market for those specific items hasn't been well established. But with a market that has 40 suppliers, and the trade history shows people buying it constantly then you'll see that the prices are relatively close to one another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

While it seems counter intuitive, sometimes a market can be too liquid, preventing stabilization.

And thats the issue we have now, overly liquid market running down our legs after some bad Mexican food.

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I would have a very hard time telling a story about how excess liquidity leads to price destabilization.

However, I can tell a convincing one about incomplete information or deficient information processing or a couple of other interesting things that lead to over-correction.

Now, read your post and point to me where exactly is the liquidity at play.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

A single sellers post, can disproportionally affect the average cost of an item...

Equilibrium is the word Zigkid uses over and over.
But when the price swings wildly, constantly, how is that equilibrium?

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Here's a ref link on my answer to that in another of your post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...18#post1475418

In short, you've got the wrong idea on what equilibrium price is, hence the way you derive your conclusion. Equilibrium price is not static...and if we dig deeper, there's a short-run equilibrium, and a long-run equilibrium. And, price momentum can also disrupt the price away from the equilibrium, and there will also be sudden price cuts below the equilibrium price. If the price drops from 250g to 80g, then went back up to 250g for a few days, then repeats again, that suggest that the equilibrium is probably near 250g...and the 80g sales is just someone trying to cash out on their inventory. It is normal. The link above also explains a little about the good and bad of tax at listing, and why it won't fix undercutting.

Liquidity in market transaction is generally a good thing in that it drives prices towards equilibrium faster, towards stabalization, and reduces stock holding risk. However, it also serves to propagate crisis that are derived from other factors such as shocks in money supply....but in this case it was not the market liquidity that causes the de-stabalization, but the shock in money supply.

I tried not to put out too many technical terms on this, but then I would have to probably write a whole chapter to explain it in plain english.

I usually only adjust my price about once every other day... maybe even less than that. The people who are so desperate to get their item sold ASAP are actually harming others because it necessarily drives the price down. Unfortunately, you can't control other people. We have to live with what they do. I am not in desperate need of money since there really isn't a lot to drop your money on right now... so I am slowly working my way up. I am also wary because people who make money 'too fast' may be flagged as RMT which will result in an unapologetic 'investigation' ban. So, I'll leave items on my retainers for weeks (checking them every now and then so it never times out). I really don't know why people feel the need to hoard so much money right now anyway. We can't even get individual housing for 6+ months.

I still think they should have implemented the blind bit system from FFXI's Auction House. It seems much better geared for an MMO.

Blind auction restricts information, thus decreases efficiency. Free market without restrictions are usually the way to go for mass trading. Think about the buyer's side of the market for all complaints on undercutting....and that's why I love weekends when all the undercutting activity goes haywire.

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Originally Posted by Zeronic

I am just stating that some items are undercut WAY too much. But seeing mythril ore drop from 150 a piece to 60 in 1 day?

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Hey, I don't like it when my items are undercut 75% either. But I figure I set my prices too high and adjust for what the market will bear, provided the rate is not less than the cost of materials plus a small profit.

Markets are fluid and what matters is the price the market will actually bear, not what you think your product is worth.

You're a miner. If the profit from your sales covers the cost of your gear repairs, I fail to see a problem. Bars turn a higher profit than unprocessed ore. Take up blacksmith or armorer if pixellated profits are that much of a concern. As previously stated, the economic (de?) stabilization that we are seeing across the servers is a result of this action: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...8d1f1df953c121

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Originally Posted by Wazabi

Liquidity in market transaction is generally a good thing in that it drives prices towards equilibrium faster, towards stabalization, and reduces stock holding risk. However, it also serves to propagate crisis that are derived from other factors such as shocks in money supply....but in this case it was not the market liquidity that causes the de-stabalization, but the shock in money supply.

I tried not to put out too many technical terms on this, but then I would have to probably write a whole chapter to explain it in plain english.

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A long one, most likely.

(I worked for an economist the year between high school and joining the military ;) )

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Originally Posted by Wazabi

Blind auction restricts information, thus decreases efficiency. Free market without restrictions are usually the way to go for mass trading. Think about the buyer's side of the market for all complaints on undercutting....and that's why I love weekends when all the undercutting activity goes haywire.

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I see you point, but I disagree completely. I think the "decreased efficiency" is completely acceptable. I question whether we should aim to simulate real world economics to a degree where it hurts more than it helps. Because in that kind of economy I believe RMT will win (under the assumption that SE will deal with them as they have done up til now).

Restricting information is not a good thing. And the blind auction system in XI supports sellers more than anything which I don't like. Undercutting in this game is a result ofsupply shocks and also people just not being smart. It was pointed out above somewhere that a single guy comes in at 50% and then everyone decides to follow suit. Yes it ruins the market for a while but then if the price is truly far from its equilibrium at current Supply/demand levels you will see the market adjust back up. it may not recover fully but thats why tings ahve 50 day moving averages so you can see its trend.

Martkets are volatile, there is no reason they shouldn't be. I think that the markets here have a tendency to be much more volatile then they need to be but its do to supply shocks and people not looking at the information available and making a smart play. I have no doubt in my mind that as the community matures and thus the markets with them, the supply/demand will level out and volatility and undercutting will fall violently.

a 50% fall in price once in a while do to a large supply increase is not a big deal, nor is it rising high on a Friday because demand is still there but weekend supply hasn't hit yet. I would like to see a listing fee if only to stop people from making stupid decisions. If i see allagon pieces on their for their vendor value i will just cry a ton.

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Originally Posted by Korbei

Buy the undercut item and put it back up for a profit.

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Mhmm, I frequently look over the boards for items I know don't sell all that quickly and post up my own items forcing massive undercutting. Then buy up the items and resell them later.

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Originally Posted by Esharii

Mhmm, I frequently look over the boards for items I know don't sell all that quickly and post up my own items forcing massive undercutting. Then buy up the items and resell them later.

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Haha that is evil yet awesome, Good thing its not the real world cause that type of price manipulation would land you in jail haha.

I'm not desperate to sell but i've undercut by 50 gil etc and my items are usually gone within minutes while the same other sellers stuff is still up.

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Originally Posted by anceru

I see you point, but I disagree completely. I think the "decreased efficiency" is completely acceptable. I question whether we should aim to simulate real world economics to a degree where it hurts more than it helps. Because in that kind of economy I believe RMT will win (under the assumption that SE will deal with them as they have done up til now).

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An efficient economy simply means getting the goods to the hands of people who are willing to pay a certain price for. The more players are able to buy goods at their desired price, subjecting to supply, then the more efficient the economy is.

Say in an efficient economy, 100 players are able to get their mats at the price of 100g. In an inefficient economy where items are selling at 150g and only 50 players are able to get their mats at that price, the market is comparatively less efficient. How can that be a good thing?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you would rather have a less efficient economy in order to tackle the RMT?

RMT is an external factor...and there are ways to deal with them without touching on the economy. If anything, a market with less constraint diminishes the power of RMT. Don't take my words for it, check with any economics professional or game theory expert...Information asymetry generally only benefits the seller...and that's why blind auction is only used in small scale bidding like corporate contracts and government projects.

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Originally Posted by bwalker36

Haha that is evil yet awesome, Good thing its not the real world cause that type of price manipulation would land you in jail haha.

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I think buying up stocks at low price, hording it, then selling it at higher price is legitimate. The only thing that would be illegal to do is hording essential goods at times of crisis or colluding to monopolize the market.

I've done the same thing with the HQ Chocobo feathers in Malboro...bought up all the stacks at 100-200, then resell them at 1000+ at 2-5pc a time. Manage to stay in control for 3 weeks, forcing out competitors. Then the server transfers and new wave of players came in and flooded the market, pushing it back down to 200. I still have 2 stacks with me, but I've already made plenty of profits from it.

Well he did mention more of manipulating prices. Buying up all the stock on the low and relisting is all good, but undercutting by 50% to watch the crazies come in and match then buy up that to resell at higher price is a little shady but I still love it lol.

Anything that floats your bank account legally.

It's frustrating for sure, but not really a big issue. Just let Player X and Player Y undercut each other continuously until Player Z swoops in buying both their items and selling them on for profit.

As an undercutter myself I don't understand the whole mentality of "buy the item and relist it for profit" mentality that is very highly prevalent in this thread. It can work for some items (I've seen it done successfully with materia) but the market very very quickly recovers. We were down to 3 savage aim 3's on our server the other night the price went through the roof and the next day there were 30+ on the market again and everyone undercutting each other back down to half the value of the previous day.

One of the main items I sell is Raptorskin Merchant Belts. I've destroyed the market for them on my server and your lucky to get a few thousand gil each for them anymore (I've had crafters message me asking me to stop selling it so low because people are spiritbond farming it lol). I still list them at the lowest price all day long and if someone came in and bought up all 10 of mine to relist higher I would simply make 10 more and undercut them again. You aren't going to win a war against someone like me by buying up the items unless you also buy up every single item used to actually craft said item off the market. I'm not losing money on sales and I simply want stuff to move - one of the main reasons I do these items in bulk and so low is for no other reason than to get progress towards the crafting achievements.

HEY! "It's the holidays!"

Undercut = SALES!

MERRY CHRISTMAS! / HAPPY NEW YEAR!

1. You aren't going to outsell craft bots.
2. You are getting undercut because you are selling too high- don't get mad because someone is willing to sell for a reasonable cost.
3. Even though it can be annoying, it is good for buyers, and mass production can be good for harvesters selling components.

Enjoy your niche while it lasts, but it doesn't take long for people to notice you are ripping people off and to move in and equalize the market. Welcome to capitalism.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

Snip....

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You would not do that in that case. But if there are 100 of something up for 50k and one guy comes in at 25k you can easily buy that up and relist for a huge profit. When a person is saturating a market with cheaper goods you don't look to buy them up. Only the random outliers.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

One of the main items I sell is Raptorskin Merchant Belts. I've destroyed the market for them on my server

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Were you on Malboro? I'm a speculator that seldom craft my own goods. The HQ belt usually sells at 10k, and then someone started putting 5-10 of them at 5k. The first time I saw it, I bought all 5 of them trying to resell it slowly. Managed to sold one before that guy posted another 5 of it, and then I knew I walked into a trap. Still, I manage to sell my other 4 pc at 10k when that person's cheap belt sold and there's still market demand. Never touched that market again because I know there's a dedicated crafter working that market.

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Originally Posted by Wazabi

Were you on Malboro? I'm a speculator that seldom craft my own goods. The HQ belt usually sells at 10k, and then someone started putting 5-10 of them at 5k. The first time I saw it, I bought all 5 of them trying to resell it slowly. Managed to sold one before that guy posted another 5 of it, and then I knew I walked into a trap. Still, I manage to sell my other 4 pc at 10k when that person's cheap belt sold and there's still market demand. Never touched that market again because I know there's a dedicated crafter working that market.

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Gabbelgak
Player

Gabbelgak's Avatar

Join Date
Sep 2013
Posts
23

Character
Gabbelle Gak
World
Malboro
Main Class
CULINARIAN Lv

Yup that's me.

Raptorskin Belts (Gather/Crafter) and Raptorskin Choker you should probably not bother messing with on Malboro lol. Atleast til I get my luminary leatherworking tool ;)