Feature Request: First Time Visit = No Map.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

I'd like it if the maps were fogged out until you went into that area then it would un-fog it. You could buy a map too, that's fine with me, but I agree, being able to see everything from the start isn't as exciting as discovering it for yourself. Hopefully as new areas are released we'll have that added into the game. :)

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I support this idea.

It absolutely would not work with FFXIV.

The landscape segments keep repeating, you would get nuts without a map.

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Originally Posted by Munba

Agree with OP, i'd like to have maps covered brfore exploring them. But not buyable. Only when you actually explore every square, the map will draw itself a part of it.

And the possibility to make marks (with text) on it like ff11.

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I guess we can't remove what has already been granted, but why not for new incoming areas? Or just for certain dungeons and you could buy/quest maps for towns and surroundings?

The ability to "draw your own map" and mark it could be questable too, or obtainable via a type of guildmark or at a certain level of fame, for example

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Excuse you, I've actually been playing XIV since alpha and I've explored these maps a hundred times over, but thank you for your ignorant comment.

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He's telling the truth. It's not as bad as people make it seem. When there are loads of people running around you, you don't notice it as much. The areas between 'zones' like the simple 2-way paths, have some repetition but it's not horrible. They just need to add some variation.

Seems like people still aren't getting the hint that OP is talking about future dungeons and stuff lol. Silly forum people.

I think EQOA was my favorite MMO in this field, actually all fields. EQOA didn't have maps period and a giant seamless world and you could easily run across the world 100 times and you just may see something different every trip. Ofcourse it wasn't the prettiest game but because of that the game world was amazing. When you gave directions to someone you had to use reference points like the peak of a mountain or a certain type of tree or an area you come across with a certain monster camp and use cardinal directions. Exploring in that game was so rewarding because there wasn't a map, also they had stage coaches that would take you to certain destinations after you unlocked them but they would never take you fully across the map and the game made you run parts of the trip.

I would love for FFXIV to be this way but with so many copy pasted things that would make it near impossible to get around. Too bad I guess.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

:/ Guys the whole purpose of this request was to Fog of War maps for INSTANCED DUNGEONS. The stuff we should be getting in 1.18. Not all maps throughout the game.

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In that case I agree. I think some got off topic because they just saw the title of the post and went from there.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

In that case I agree. I think some got off topic because they just saw the title of the post and went from there.

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More like they didn't read the first post. No one does anymore.

This is probably the most "Hardcore" Friendly Idea I've had.

One of the biggest thrills I had in XI was exploring a new place before having the map for it. Exploring new areas released in Expansions before anyone had the maps up was thrilling.

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Right now though all the areas in XIV come with maps already explored for you. This is kinda boring. So I'd like to propose that any instanced Dungeon has Fog of War on its map the first time you play through. Just for the sake of feeling like "This is the first time this place has been explored.". After that the maps always open to you when you re-visit the instanced dungeon.

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OMG YES PLEASE!

ALT+TAB into YG to check maps is so hardcore!

Not having a map!? Are you crazy?! This is the worst idea ever!! Im not hardcore like you guys ok! Why do some people wants this game to be like FF11?! THIS IS NOT FINAL FANTASY XI! FF11 was garbage! Pure and simple! If you still love that crappy game?! Go play it!!

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

More like they didn't read the first post. No one does anymore.

This is probably the most "Hardcore" Friendly Idea I've had.

One of the biggest thrills I had in XI was exploring a new place before having the map for it. Exploring new areas released in Expansions before anyone had the maps up was thrilling.

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Okay, in the vein of only dungeon maps, there already is what is effectively fog of war, at least by RTS standards. What I mean is that you can not see beyond the scope of the minimap the locations of the enemies and what not. What I understand of what is being proposed, is that the maps for the dungeons have a black fog covering everywhere that is not on the minimap. This would be effectively the same as disabling the map and only having the minimap. Now it could be different if the region shown on the minimap is smaller than the area shown on the complete map.

Now there is a second idea in this which ties into the limited view. You want the game to track which areas you have been to and only show those on the minimap. That is quite feasible as it can be done purely on the client side, but that does open up the chance for map-hack programs. SE does not seem to like the client side to control anything, unless they are having a change of heart in effort to relieve network traffic. WoW for example leaves movement up to the client. Guild Wars does/did not (causes Rubber-banding).

I suppose if SE really did not care, but liked the thought of the feature, they could have a toggle in game for the feature. That way they wouldn't have to worry about map hacks. Or hide the maps better than what I have seen.

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Originally Posted by Cxplorer

Not having a map!? Are you crazy?! This is the worst idea ever!! Im not hardcore like you guys ok! Why do some people wants this game to be like FF11?! THIS IS NOT FINAL FANTASY XI! FF11 was garbage! Pure and simple! If you still love that crappy game?! Go play it!!

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I can't take that response seriously

Again people not reading the first post.

I'll try and explain it better and edit the first post to reflect it..

1. The first time you visit a Instanced Dungeon, The normal full screen map turns into a Dungeon Map. But it is completely greyed out. You can't see terrain or monsters on the map itself.

2. As you explore the Dungeon the grey parts of the map become exposed. As long as you are in range of that section of the map you can also see monsters on the map. If you go out of range you can only see terrain.

3. When you defeat the final objective for the Dungeon Map the whole map is filled in, exposing all the hidden rooms or other things you might have missed.

4. The next time you come to the dungeon the whole map is accessable to you for terrain view for all normal areas on the map. Hidden areas are still Fogged but if you know where they are you can find them easily. Monsters can only be seen on the map when in range.

I'm not talking about competely removing the map. I'm talking about making it so you have to explore the map. A mix of the Local Maps from games like Oblivion, and Final Fantasy XI where once you "own the map" which you get from beating the final objective of the dungeon you can see the whole map. But until you unlock the whole map by defeating the final objective you only see what parts you have explored. Anything you've explored stays visible on the map.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Again people not reading the first post.

I'll try and explain it better and edit the first post to reflect it..

1. The first time you visit a Instanced Dungeon, The normal full screen map turns into a Dungeon Map. But it is completely greyed out. You can't see terrain or monsters on the map itself.

2. As you explore the Dungeon the grey parts of the map become exposed. As long as you are in range of that section of the map you can also see monsters on the map. If you go out of range you can only see terrain.

3. When you defeat the final objective for the Dungeon Map the whole map is filled in, exposing all the hidden rooms or other things you might have missed.

4. The next time you come to the dungeon the whole map is accessable to you for terrain view for all normal areas on the map. Hidden areas are still Fogged but if you know where they are you can find them easily. Monsters can only be seen on the map when in range.

I'm not talking about competely removing the map. I'm talking about making it so you have to explore the map. A mix of the Local Maps from games like Oblivion, and Final Fantasy XI where once you "own the map" which you get from beating the final objective of the dungeon you can see the whole map. But until you unlock the whole map by defeating the final objective you only see what parts you have explored. Anything you've explored stays visible on the map.

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That sounds great.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

original idea, blah.

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Thats great and all but your proposal has sparked a different idea inside the thread where new areas "open world, because we all know instanced dungeons are lame!" You have to explore the map to gain sight of it on your own map, or purchase/quest the map if you can't explore the area.

I think it's a great idea if they only gave you a basic map of new areas that got you from entrances, exits, camps, and town. While the rest of the map is "Unexplored" and will fill itself out when you wander off the beaten path.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Again people not reading the first post.

I'll try and explain it better and edit the first post to reflect it..

1. The first time you visit a Instanced Dungeon, The normal full screen map turns into a Dungeon Map. But it is completely greyed out. You can't see terrain or monsters on the map itself.

2. As you explore the Dungeon the grey parts of the map become exposed. As long as you are in range of that section of the map you can also see monsters on the map. If you go out of range you can only see terrain.

3. When you defeat the final objective for the Dungeon Map the whole map is filled in, exposing all the hidden rooms or other things you might have missed.

4. The next time you come to the dungeon the whole map is accessable to you for terrain view for all normal areas on the map. Hidden areas are still Fogged but if you know where they are you can find them easily. Monsters can only be seen on the map when in range.

I'm not talking about competely removing the map. I'm talking about making it so you have to explore the map. A mix of the Local Maps from games like Oblivion, and Final Fantasy XI where once you "own the map" which you get from beating the final objective of the dungeon you can see the whole map. But until you unlock the whole map by defeating the final objective you only see what parts you have explored. Anything you've explored stays visible on the map.

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Agree with it and i like it. And i'd extend this also for the future new 'normal' areas as well.

A great hybrid approach to the whole map/exploration issue.. I love it.

Devs please take note of this!

Or you could just not open your map? BAM nailed it.

I don't think we should have the maps we have taken away, or that new players should have to earn the maps we already have. That would be like trying to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
I do think it would be lame, for example, to infiltrate the Garlean Empire and immediately have the maps available without first doing some sort of reconnaissance quests/missions.

As far as questing maps goes, visiting all the aetheryte camps and nodes might be a good quest objective to get a particular map.

I'd rather have a map that fills in as you explore, buying maps is ok but there is still no sense of discovery with that and getting maps from oddly placed coffers in 11 was horrible.

I think the idea is: when they introduce dungeons, do it Zelda style:

Enter the dungeon and see your position on the minimap. Super. Open your big map and ......oh! only part of it is filled in, because you have just entered the dungeon.

As you progress from area to area (like from room to room in Zelda), you "uncover" more map area. Perhaps there will be a chest somewhere with the complete map! (too hokey?)

I personally think it's a really cool idea.

*edit: there wasn't any need for a quote...

I think one of my favorite map quests from xi was The necropolis [s] you had to explore a bit to find map fragments then bring them back to a npc and he would put them together for you.

I do support being able to earn maps for zones and dungeons going forward. at the same time i understand people just wanting to buy the map and being done with it. What if they make a ongoing event/quest out of it? Say when they add in a new dungeon or zone. spread around and hidden in said area are ???'s or "Survey points". Lets also say at the start of this quest or event you get a "Magical doodad" from a npc to take readings at said locations. Once you have taken readings from all of the points inside your presented with a shiny new map of the area your in. Once enough magical doodads are turned back in to the quest/event npc the map is put up for sale in special cartography vendors for that server conveniently located in each nation.

this would accomplish a few things. Including but not limited too. Incentivize people to get in and explore every nook and cranny of these new places. Allow those that do not want to go exploring to obtain the map for said area. Promote the co-operation of players. And finaly do something square has never been able to do. Recreate the feeling of the Legendary 2003 Twinkling Treant and the 2004 summer fests "Test of Courage" from xi. And do it every time a new place to explore has been added or opened to us. Properly done the addition of a new zone could be like Main lining a overdose of win cut with awesome and epic.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Fetch questing for maps is low-grade content. Inevitably the most convoluted maps are going to have the most painful Zelda fetches attached to them imaginable. I'd rather actually create the map in realtime via magic by exploring the dungeon a few dozen meters at a time. That way you don't get the map by being a dog. You get it by actually mapping the area.

Also, if you make players jump through hoops to get maps for areas, they'll just make a program to rip the maps out of the data, mark them and enhance them, then put them where the map would have been. These days, people are all about using any excuse to cheat they can. "they didn't give me a map" is well within their mindset of justified.

I don't think it adds enough adventure to justify the painful, inevitable fetch questing or spawn the demand for a third party application.

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So far we have some REALLY boring quest that have abolutely no purpose but getting a piece of crappy gear or similar.
So i think the maps would be an improvement. It would be a start. Since atm no quest really does make sense or is needed at all.

Hardcore? Maybe. Smart idea? Maybe not so much.

Looking back to FFXI, it had this "feature" along with another great "feature", quests that confused the hell out of you. What happened because of these "features"? Sites like FFXI-Atlas.com and FFXI.allakhazam.com. I personally believe that the developers gave you the maps off the bat and gave you more clues in your quest log, along with marking the map for you because when they add "features" like the one requested, players will just open their web browser and look up the map or look the quest up.

People say they are "hardcore" for not using these resources, I think that sometimes they just try too hard. When Diabolos Prime came out, really, the only "hardcores" were the ones that went in first. Everyone wants to say they are "hardcore" but few know what it actually means. After the first few hours of the fight being live, everyone was already linking to the picture that showed the order in which the tiles fell.

I don't think this is entirely a bad idea. My dream of an expansion for FFXIV would be one in which players infiltrated the Garlean Empire. A long an interesting quest to obtain the map for that would be cool, because not many people from Eorzea have ever been there. As far as the new dungeons go, they already said that the leaders of the companies would be going in and reporting back on their experiences for us and we would get a post on the lodestone or some such. It would make sense if there were maps for the dungeons if that is the case.

That's just my opinion, obviously other people have their own.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Looking back to FFXI, it had this "feature".

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FFXI had no map system even similar to how I describe it in the first post.

I am against anything thats just handed to me. I understand that there are soooooo many of you who disagree. But everytime we get something just handed to us that we dont have to work for the game suffers.

With soo many ppl complaining there isnt anything to do, I wonder why... Could it be because everyone just want everything right now without having to work for it. Anima is one of the biggest things hurting this game right now, I understand why its there, but here is the problem, get leve-> warp to outpost-> follow markers on mini-map to exact location->kill mobs->warp back to outpost->repeat->warp home. Theres absolutely no interaction with the environment or the surroundings.

There is little to DRAW you IN to the game. The majority of ff games are open world (i think all the core numbers except 10 and 13? not positive, but even those had a few open areas) You talk to npc, who usually needs you to do something in some other place for them. You would talk to the npc, he tells you something is wrong in the town of whatever then your off. I don't ever remember having my hand held in FF until recently. I dont ever remember walking up to a npc and seeing (!) above there head. I certainly dont remember ever starting the game with warp spell or teleportaion of some kind. In all the original FF titles you had to work to get things. I'm tired of being handed stuff, make me work for it.

I know not everyone agrees with me, but remember this is just MY opinion.

Totally agree with OP, completely agree with gifthorse post #2

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I'm not talking about competely removing the map. I'm talking about making it so you have to explore the map.

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Yeah I know, you want a map system like WoW. I am saying I think it's a bit silly and even in WoW there were more elaborate map sites that players could go to. Even map addons like Atlas. Even with this system players will still be going to sites to figure out where to go in what order, what turn is a dead end etc. My point stands.

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Originally Posted by ObeiKinstar

I know not everyone agrees with me, but remember this is just MY opinion.

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+1

I agree with ya :)

Again, I don't think this is a horrible idea. I like some extra challenge where it makes sense. This feature seems like a lot of work for something that will have no use once a player completely finishes a dungeon. Personally I would like to see things like Nyzul where the layout is randomized, and there is no map at all. Otherwise, there will always be the FFXI-Atlas site out there that shows you the way. It may be challenging the first go, sure, but I'm sure most players will just look it up.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Again, I don't think this is a horrible idea. I like some extra challenge where it makes sense. This feature seems like a lot of work for something that will have no use once a player completely finishes a dungeon. Personally I would like to see things like Nyzul where the layout is randomized, and there is no map at all. Otherwise, there will always be the FFXI-Atlas site out there that shows you the way. It may be challenging the first go, sure, but I'm sure most players will just look it up.

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Even if it was randomized there is only going to be a set number of layouts that one could discern fairly quickly and then pop that map up in there web-browser. Making it as a dungeon feature will do little than put people not willing to have all 18 maps on hand at a disadvantage to those who do.

For dungeon maps, sure. For overworld maps, no thanks just because they're not that interesting to explore and fill in the map yourself.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Yeah I know, you want a map system like WoW. I am saying I think it's a bit silly and even in WoW there were more elaborate map sites that players could go to. Even map addons like Atlas. Even with this system players will still be going to sites to figure out where to go in what order, what turn is a dead end etc. My point stands.

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No. Actually I'm not even talking about WoW. Its more like Diablo 2, TES, Most if not all RTS's, etc.

World of Warcraft gives you the whole map for an area once you have visited it once and gotten the EXP for it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Even if it was randomized there is only going to be a set number of layouts that one could discern fairly quickly and then pop that map up in there web-browser. Making it as a dungeon feature will do little than put people not willing to have all 18 maps on hand at a disadvantage to those who do.

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Prove me wrong please and show me some user created maps of all the floors of Nyzul Isle Staging Point. lol

*Edit* Also, since you obviously have never done Nyzul Isle in FFXI, it wouldn't matter even if someone made maps for Nyzul. You are on a timer, in that time you can generally complete 5 floors, however when you move into a floor, just by looking around you can't tell what the floor's layout would be. It is set up almost like a hedge maze in parts. On top of the floor being random, the monsters on the floor are also randomized. To pass onto the next floor, you have to complete a random objective on that floor (kill all mobs of a particular family) and sometimes have a random restriction (like no White Magic).

I would like to see at least some cool dungeons or activities like that, which use no map at all.

I have done Nyzul Isle in XI and that is random but it is also rediculous. You place so much on luck skill matters very little and it restricted who was even able to atend. Not a bard or Samurai? Good luck.

I'm not up for cloned rooms just for the sake of being flat out confusing.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I have done Nyzul Isle in XI and that is random but it is also rediculous. You place so much on luck skill matters very little and it restricted who was even able to atend. Not a bard or Samurai? Good luck.

I'm not up for cloned rooms just for the sake of being flat out confusing.

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Personally I think Nyzul was one of the coolest things FFXI did. Also "Not a bard or Samurai? Good luck." isn't that issue something that this amazing new FFXIV job system was designed to correct? Everyone can fill a niche at the swap of a skill?

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Personally I think Nyzul was one of the coolest things FFXI did. Also "Not a bard or Samurai? Good luck." isn't that issue something that this amazing new FFXIV job system was designed to correct? Everyone can fill a niche at the swap of a skill?

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And only proceeded to make class selection as important as your stats. Pointless.

Sorry Cairdeas ppl are to casual and want everything handed to them like a baby :) tho i agree which should not have maps for all areas right away it's not going to happen to do the point more then 50% dislike anything that is not casual.even if the idea is hardcore/casual they still would not like it's a waste of time i think se should make other poll and stop listening to 20ish players on the forums and start listing to the overall with a poll each month asking what type of change they want.

Heya!

This is a wonderful idea! You can't know a place if you don't have its map, no matter what. You'll be able to have your place's map afterall.
This depends on how FFXIV Dev Team described their definition of Adventurer in the game, if he's one that just got in a place without knowing anything, or simply someone who likes to wander around the world and has an updated map of every place.

I would find it great if they could implement Maps by the vendors. They don't keep place in the inventory, just like books or skills, and will give a better immersion in the game, because you had to Buy the map in order to visit a place. If you didn't buy a map, you would simply freak out and end nowhere. Also, every vendor has only the maps of the other fields than the ones of your city-state, because you'll receive that map by the first quest dude.

If this will not be possible, I hope that dungeons will have to get you buy a map =)

See ya!

Don't hit the menu button when your in a zone, problem solved.

if your going to have an NPC charge for maps that you can readily get.... you might as well just give them to the players already. Otherwise its an annoyance. Hell I'll meet you half way just give me a menu that says "map shop"

You will end up like FF11 where the entrance fee for new players after 5-10 years is HUGE and the amount of stuff you have to do to get maps, chocobos, level past 50, new areas, airship acces, ect ect bogs down people. It's just an annoyance to have to google the npc name to get every map, or do a quest that takes 2 hours when your end game to get a map for a zone that you can google for free, or map hack even (illegal!!!!!!). Anyway I think it takes away from the fun elements of the game and adds to the "grind" aspect.

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Don't hit the menu button when your in a zone, problem solved.

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Has nothing to do with Zones.

I agree with the OP. Although I also wouldn't mind having quests you had to do in order to get some of the maps for some of the regions. I think its fine to have the starter areas already filled for you, but with dungeons or far away regions, either making the map yourself or questing for it would be more fun for me personally.