Feature Request: First Time Visit = No Map.

[Cairdeas]

This is probably the most "Hardcore" Friendly Idea I've had.

One of the biggest thrills I had in XI was exploring a new place before having the map for it. Exploring new areas released in Expansions before anyone had the maps up was thrilling.

Right now though all the areas in XIV come with maps already explored for you. This is kinda boring. So I'd like to propose that any instanced Dungeon has Fog of War on its map the first time you play through. Just for the sake of feeling like "This is the first time this place has been explored.". After that the maps always open to you when you re-visit the instanced dungeon.

Fuller Explaination.
Again people not reading the first post.

I'll try and explain it better and edit the first post to reflect it..

1. The first time you visit a Instanced Dungeon, The normal full screen map turns into a Dungeon Map. But it is completely greyed out. You can't see terrain or monsters on the map itself.

2. As you explore the Dungeon the grey parts of the map become exposed. As long as you are in range of that section of the map you can also see monsters on the map. If you go out of range you can only see terrain.

3. When you defeat the final objective for the Dungeon Map the whole map is filled in, exposing all the hidden rooms or other things you might have missed.

4. The next time you come to the dungeon the whole map is accessable to you for terrain view for all normal areas on the map. Hidden areas are still Fogged but if you know where they are you can find them easily. Monsters can only be seen on the map when in range.

I'm not talking about competely removing the map. I'm talking about making it so you have to explore the map. A mix of the Local Maps from games like Oblivion, and Final Fantasy XI where once you "own the map" which you get from beating the final objective of the dungeon you can see the whole map. But until you unlock the whole map by defeating the final objective you only see what parts you have explored. Anything you've explored stays visible on the map.

[BrusselSprout]

This is probably the most "Hardcore" Friendly Idea I've had.

One of the biggest thrills I had in XI was exploring a new place before having the map for it. Exploring new areas released in Expansions before anyone had the maps up was thrilling.

Right now though all the areas in XIV come with maps already explored for you. This is kinda boring. So I'd like to propose that any instanced Dungeon has Fog of War on its map the first time you play through. Just for the sake of feeling like "This is the first time this place has been explored.". After that the maps always open to you when you re-visit the instanced dungeon.

As long as I can purchase a map from the vendor, you can chew all the rocks you want.

[gifthorse]

In FFXIV, there's no sense of wonder because you can just scroll around on your map and also, as we all know, there isn't anything either tangible or intangible in our future at the moment. It's like, so what if I go into this cave? - l know there are no treasure chests or Notorious Monsters in there, so I might as well not bother. Besides the gratuitous joy of seeing a copy-pasted cave, there's just no point to it all.

In my opinion, an MMORPG is more than an adventure, it's an escape from the real world. So it should stand on its own as a fantasy reality where every player can play his own role (see mmo ROLE playing game) in the world. A spirit of adventure comes with the territory, because as long as there is something to work toward, new horizons to be met, there will always be that sense of wonder, of how you can change and experience the world.

Even though I don't really agree with FFXI as an ideal MMO, it was pretty immersive in the adventure-sense. Some of the areas were pretty crappy, like that swamp area and that forest with the copy pasted trees the whole way through on the way to Jeuno, but for the most part, every area was rich in side-routes and underground lairs, beastman citadels, etc. You pretty much couldn't go an entire zone without wondering where those places lead to, and of course you couldn't cheat by looking at your map.

I guess my point is, the thing that works in FFXI is the progression onto better things (starter cities -> Valkrum -> other cities -> Jeuno -> Quifm -> Getting your airship License ... etc) which gave you a direction in the world. You were generally asking "what next?" all the way to lvl 75. And even after. In FFXIV, there is nothing to look forward to, and no questions to ask besides "how do i work this insufferable UI?"

And the whole concept of having to buy or find maps made a lot of sense (because it forced players to get to know the area) and you didnt know what was coming. FFXIV seems to be way too straight forward and impersonal. The world is massive but it feels tiny. Everything is shown to you, and yet you dont want to look at it. And while there are some cool things to find (like the ala'mihgo encampment at thanalan) nothing is impressive enough to warrant exploring the world..

The map situation comes into the equation here too because not knowing where you are going heightens that sense of adventure. Unlike FFXI, in FFXIV, it's all there right before your eyes, and it's not exactly the most enticing thing to look at. Although everyone can download a map online, it's different when you're in game and don't know you're way around. Automatically having your maps kind of ruins that coupled feeling of danger & excitement when encountering something new.

So, convenience isn't always the best remedy. The developers think that anima and levequests are the solution to what made FFXI undesirable for many players (those that wanted a more casual game), but they don't realise what they have to sacrifice to maintain these features.

Being able to instantly teleport anywhere destroys the vastness of the world they've sought to create. At the present time, given the state of the world and lack of chocobos, I wouldn't trade in the anima system for anything, but the point is: you can't have immersion and convenience together, not really. If they had chocobos, maybe they could place greater restrictions on anima usage. But until then, I don't forsee a solution to this issue. It's a case of balance, immersion vs. convenience. They just haven't struck the right balance yet and won't be able to until they introduce more methods of transportation.


If you want to accommodate the casual crowd, that's fine, but you don't have to pander to the carebears. There I said it.

[viion]

In FFXIV, there's no sense of wonder because you can just scroll around on your map and also, as we all know, there isn't anything either tangible or intangible in our future at the moment. It's like, so what if I go into this cave? - l know there are no treasure chests or Notorious Monsters in there, so I might as well not bother. Besides the gratuitous joy of seeing a copy-pasted cave, there's just no point to it all.

In my opinion, an MMORPG is more than an adventure, it's an escape from the real world. So it should stand on its own as a fantasy reality where every player can play his own role (see mmo ROLE playing game) in the world. A spirit of adventure comes with the territory, because as long as there is something to work toward, new horizons to be met, there will always be that sense of wonder, of how you can change and experience the world.

Even though I don't really agree with FFXI as an ideal MMO, it was pretty immersive in the adventure-sense. Some of the areas were pretty crappy, like that swamp area and that forest with the copy pasted trees the whole way through on the way to Jeuno, but for the most part, every area was rich in side-routes and underground lairs, beastman citadels, etc. You pretty much couldn't go an entire zone without wondering where those places lead to, and of course you couldn't cheat by looking at your map.

I guess my point is, the thing that works in FFXI is the progression onto better things (starter cities -> Valkrum -> other cities -> Jeuno -> Quifm -> Getting your airship License ... etc) which gave you a direction in the world. You were generally asking "what next?" all the way to lvl 75. And even after. In FFXIV, there is nothing to look forward to, and no questions to ask besides "how do i work this insufferable UI?"

And the whole concept of having to buy or find maps made a lot of sense (because it forced players to get to know the area). FFXIV seems to be way too straight forward and fake. The world is massive but it feels tiny. And while there are some cool things to find (like the ala'mihgo encampment at thanalan) nothing is impressive enough to warrant exploring the world..

The map situation comes into the equation here too because not knowing where you are going heightens that sense of adventure. Unlike FFXI, in FFXIV, it's all there right before your eyes, and it's not exactly the most enticing thing to look at. Although everyone can download a map online, it's different when you're in game and don't know you're way around. Automatically having your maps kind of ruins that coupled feeling of danger & excitement when encountering something new.

So, convenience isn't always the best remedy. The developers think that anima and levequests are the solution to what made FFXI undesirable for many players (those that wanted a more casual game), but they don't realise what they have to sacrifice to maintain these features.

Being able to instantly teleport anywhere destroys the vastness of the world they've sought to create. At the present time, given the state of the world and lack of chocobos, I wouldn't trade in the anima system for anything, but the point is: you can't have immersion and convenience together, not really. If they had chocobos, maybe they could place greater restrictions on anima usage. But until then, I don't forsee a solution to this issue. It's a case of balance, immersion vs. convenience. They just haven't struck the right balance yet and won't be able to until they introduce more methods of transportation.


If you want to accommodate the casual crowd, that's fine, but you don't have to pander to the carebears. There I said it.

get out of my head!!

[Lerris]

I agree with everyone in this thread.

There was no challenge getting from one starter city to the others for the first time. Requiring the map to be purchased/quested/explored would hardly sacrifice casual-friendly play, but would rather give the casuals the opportunity to feel a sense of accomplishment when the finally reach Ul'dah and buy a map of Thanalan.

[Naylia]

I think the anima debate is a separate one....

but Yes, Please, to areas we have to explore and maps that we need to earn / find / buy / explore the space ourselves.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

i'm not pro or cons on this. But if they pull out this feature please, no ultra-long quests like crawler's nest. Interesting lore, but loooooooong.

[Xmbei]

One of the first topics I like seeing for an addition... I was disappointed and found myself looking at the map more than memorizing my own paths like I did in many other games. I do not like having these maps just given to me, town maps sure. I want my maps to be explore and open up, or as FFXI did it have to go to a vendor and buy it. Please do this....

[Peregrine]

Fetch questing for maps is low-grade content. Inevitably the most convoluted maps are going to have the most painful Zelda fetches attached to them imaginable. I'd rather actually create the map in realtime via magic by exploring the dungeon a few dozen meters at a time. That way you don't get the map by being a dog. You get it by actually mapping the area.

Also, if you make players jump through hoops to get maps for areas, they'll just make a program to rip the maps out of the data, mark them and enhance them, then put them where the map would have been. These days, people are all about using any excuse to cheat they can. "they didn't give me a map" is well within their mindset of justified.

I don't think it adds enough adventure to justify the painful, inevitable fetch questing or spawn the demand for a third party application.

[Nuru]

In FFXIV... [insert the essay here]

This post really makes me a douche for quoting you in my signature. Thanks. D: but im still keeping it. xD